Butt and pass round log cabin build

[40acrefarm]

Hi, as my title says we own a 40 Acre Farm in Northeast Ohio. I have about 90 trees marked currently in a small wooded patch that I want to thin out that are mostly pretty straight and vary in diameter from 12 inch down to 8 in. I would like peoples opinion on whether a Timber lock screw can be used instead of rebar? Thanks much

[loghousenut]

I think you'd be introducing the same problem that most kit house builders get by doing that same thing. A lag screw or Timberlok screw does not prevent settling. The rebar in the LHBA system does prevent settling.

PS... Rebar is cheaper too.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

[40acrefarm]

Ok, I've tried to read into how this system of the lhba differs from skips by reading what limited information is posted at least that I can find on here as to how it's different if at all?( does Skip's method use green trees also or does he call out for them to be seasoned? I'm waiting on a book that I ordered and I should have it on Sunday but in the meantime couple days can someone tell me how much this lhba class cost and how is it given along with answering my green log question?

[Ellsworth]

Ok, I've tried to read into how this system of the lhba differs from skips by reading what limited information is posted at least that I can find on here as to how it's different if at all?( does Skip's method use green trees also or does he call out for them to be seasoned? I'm waiting on a book that I ordered and I should have it on Sunday but in the meantime couple days can someone tell me how much this lhba class cost and how is it given along with answering my green log question?

Welcome aboard.

This is Skip's method.

Green logs are fine, so are seasoned.
Green's a little softer so the rebar is easier to drive, seasoned will shrink less than green once in the wall.
You can get information about the class on the lhba.com website, iirc there's a contact method under the 'about us' navigation tab.

You might want to check out the links on this thread
https://community.loghomebuilders.or...-links-allowed

[40acrefarm]

Okay, so the lhba butt and pass is exactly as skip did his method ( are there any modifications that have been added in the lhba butt and pass compared to skips methods)?

[Ellsworth]

Okay, so the lhba butt and pass is exactly as skip did his method ( are there any modifications that have been added in the lhba butt and pass compared to skips methods)?

Each build is unique, each build is similar.

There's been updates over decades on engineering (i.e. rebar spacing).

The students / members and instructors (mostly the student / members) have added a lot of additional tips, tricks and approaches.
Growth is a communal effort, just look at trees to understand.

Each build is unique, each build is similar. But there are a lot of shared fundamentals.

[40acrefarm]

Each build is unique, each build is similar.

There's been updates over decades on engineering (i.e. rebar spacing).

The students / members and instructors (mostly the student / members) have added a lot of additional tips, tricks and approaches.
Growth is a communal effort, just look at trees to understand.

Each build is unique, each build is similar. But there are a lot of shared fundamentals.

Ok, I'll look at this book I'm getting( supposedly it was written by someone that built a butt and pass log home about 30 years ago and is still in great shape and I believe he was trained by skip Ellsworth)so this method taught by skip could utilize green or seasoned logs correct?( it sounds like the lhba method strictly utilizes green logs?)
Thanks much!

[40acrefarm]

I think you'd be introducing the same problem that most kit house builders get by doing that same thing. A lag screw or Timberlok screw does not prevent settling. The rebar in the LHBA system does prevent settling.



PS... Rebar is cheaper too.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

What diameter rebar is used for 8-12 " logs for a 14x16 cabin?

[Ellsworth]

What diameter rebar is used for 8-12 " logs for a 14x16 cabin?

1/2", generally although it's not universal.

Go through the first log and half way into the log below.

Best of luck.

[40acrefarm]

Ok, I also see from watching videos you shared links to theres a piece of rebar going through side of one log and into the end of another, on every log stacked in the corners correct?( is there a set length for that piece of rebar?) I know I need to do more research but I see conflicting information online saying every 6 ft there needs to be a piece of rebar driven through one log and halfway into the next, but other places say every 2 ft you need to do that?

[Ellsworth]

Ok, I also see from watching videos you shared links to theres a piece of rebar going through side of one log and into the end of another, on every log stacked in the corners correct?( is there a set length for that piece of rebar?) I know I need to do more research but I see conflicting information online saying every 6 ft there needs to be a piece of rebar driven through one log and halfway into the next, but other places say every 2 ft you need to do that?

I suggest you wait until your book arrives and give it a read.

In the mean time, I directed you to a long list of student websites/blogs.
If you you read them all you accomplish a few things:
You'll learn a lot about this building method.
It'll keep you busy while you wait for your book to arrive.

The best path likely involves taking the LHBA online class.
If you're interested just email 'info at lhba.com' and someone can answer your questions about that (afaik).

Jump on those websites, you'll likely enjoy the reading.

[40acrefarm]

I didn't see any reading available in those links, maybe I missed it. The only thing I saw was YouTube links

[Ellsworth]

To LHBA members, if you visit this thread then you might start to understand the problem.

To non-members: that thread was started by someone who recently took the class. He has already helped by showing a need that I'm wrestling with how to help.

He already started building before taking the class.
Just a small structure.

His lifting method could have easily failed under load.
I'm not knocking the guy. He's made a ton of progress, with more than just the start of a log structure.

In the past our rules would have prohibited him from joining.
https://community.loghomebuilders.or...ld-class-rules
The rules serve multiple purposes, one is to simply have some catch the fundamentals before starting their project.
Another is to avoid telling someone, "Get rid of your new foundation and start over, or switch to a stick built home."

With youtube, more and more people are going to be making progress alone.
That's neat and worrisome.
At the same time, I don't want to complicate my life by trying to teach the class thousands of times on each persons own Q&A thread.

This is the first time we've had this new section where new people can discuss some nuts and bolts. It's an experiment.
I appreciate your understanding as we navigate new waters with this.

[40acrefarm]

To members, if you visit this thread then you might start to understand the problem.

To non-members: that thread was started by someone who recently took the class. He has already helped by showing a need that I'm wrestling with how to help.

He already started building before taking the class.
Just a small structure.

His lifting method could have easily failed under load.
I'm not knocking the guy. He's made a ton of progress, with more than just the start of a log structure.

In the past our rules would have prohibited from joining.
https://community.loghomebuilders.or...ld-class-rules
The rules serve multiple purposes, one is to simply have some catch the fundamentals before starting their project.
Another is to avoid telling someone, "Get rid of your new foundation and start over, or switch to a stick built home."

With youtube, more and more people are going to be making progress alone.
That's neat and worrisome.
At the same time, I don't want to complicate my life by trying to teach the class thousands of times on each persons own Q&A thread.

This is the first time we've had this new section where new people can discuss some nuts and bolts. It's an experiment.
I appreciate your understanding as we navigate new waters with this.

I see the readable parts now, there's so many links there I just didn't notice there was some to actually read instead of just YouTube links.( appreciate your time here)
I'm not sure if your response above was directed solely to me or everyone? Again, thanks I will start reading

[40acrefarm]

I suggest you wait until your book arrives and give it a read.

In the mean time, I directed you to a long list of student websites/blogs.
If you you read them all you accomplish a few things:
You'll learn a lot about this building method.
It'll keep you busy while you wait for your book to arrive.

The best path likely involves taking the LHBA online class.
If you're interested just email 'info at lhba.com' and someone can answer your questions about that (afaik).

Jump on those websites, you'll likely enjoy the reading.

I'm not great with technology. When you say just email info at lha.com and someone can answer your questions about that(afaik) I don't know what that means?

[40acrefarm]

I'm not great with technology. When you say just email info at lha.com and someone can answer your questions about that(afaik) I don't know what that means?

Also when you say"members" I think ok I'm a member of this forum so I should be able to view this,but when clicked on it it then says your not allowed to view this( so what exactly is a member of what considered)?

[Ellsworth]

Also when you say"members" I think ok I'm a member of this forum so I should be able to view this,but when clicked on it it then says your not allowed to view this( so what exactly is a member of what considered)?

Post has been edited for clarity.

[40acrefarm]

Not clear,even more confused as far as who/ how to email someone to ask questions about the online course?

[mudflap]

info@lhba.com would be a good email to use.

www.lhba.com for the class.

the price might seem steep, and it took me 10 years to finally get around to taking it, but I'll bet I've saved at least $100k due to the ideas contained in the class. "just winging it" with 6,000 - 10,000 lb logs isn't a good life insurance plan.

I believe there are some pretty great links in my signature.

[mudflap]

and here's an "overview" start-to-finish video from my channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4SjcPKEIJk

[Ellsworth]

info@lhba.com would be a good email to use.

www.lhba.com for the class.

the price might seem steep, and it took me 10 years to finally get around to taking it, but I'll bet I've saved at least $100k due to the ideas contained in the class. "just winging it" with 6,000 - 10,000 lb logs isn't a good life insurance plan.

I believe there are some pretty great links in my signature.

And a wise person might add additional travel expenses for what has always been strongly recommended by the LHBA: volunteering on another student's build.

If someone is building close, then stop by at every phase and help out for a while.
If there's no one close, then try to time it so you can visit a build exactly when they will be laying their cap logs and then doing their RPSL and Ridgepole (if possible, stick around for a day of rafters).

Spend the cash on a trip or two for that purpose and it'll pay you in experience. Perhaps do that before investing a lot into your own project.
Option two, build a small structure like a pump house or a 1 story garage with a loft before doing your main structure.
Option three, just jump into the water... if you have some practice at swimming you'll likely do great (the more practice the better).

[40acrefarm]

I do actually plan on building a Outhouse first to practice the technique with smaller logs. Thanks for the info

[40acrefarm]

Do certain size or species warp/ twist more when letting them dry( the trees I'm going to use are super straight with no limbs from the ground up to about 40 ft High before they actually Branch out so I don't anticipate a lot of warping but normally when I'm cutting wood it's either been for firewood or Milling it with my chainsaw)

[Ellsworth]

Do certain size or species warp/ twist more when letting them dry( the trees I'm going to use are super straight with no limbs from the ground up to about 40 ft High before they actually Branch out so I don't anticipate a lot of warping but normally when I'm cutting wood it's either been for firewood or Milling it with my chainsaw)

Specifically what species are those trees that you plan on using?

Generally speaking, the Butt and Pass method is very tolerant of log defects.
A person can typically even use logs that would be rejected for Scandinavian chinkless, saddle notch and even the sawmill.

[40acrefarm]

I see that when drying trees you obviously want them up off the ground which I have 4x4 built skids to do that. But I also see that you rotate the logs every month or so, I'm assuming to stop a tree from warping correct? Thanks much fellas for the information. I still need to read the book I got but I'm just mulling things over ahead of time

[40acrefarm]

Maple, I plan on the cabin being built a minimum of 18 inches off the ground to minimize splashing so that microorganisms don't start growing and I will build with 3 ft overhangs on each side and front and back porch that is 4 ft

[40acrefarm]

I own a pretty large backhoe / front loader that I rebuilt the diesel engine on 2 years ago that I currently use for giving our cows round bales of hay during the winter( I plan on using this backhoe to dig below the frost line and use up a bunch of old barnstone for my sill logs to sit on , after compacting the ground and putting Stone in the bottom for drainage and then compacting the stone before putting any Barn stones in for the piers)

[Ellsworth]

You have me immediately rethinking my approach.

Suddenly I see an argument from the side of existing LHBA students/members.

I had suggested that perhaps we open the LHBA student/member's only area to non-students/members. The member's largely objected for 2 reasons:
1) Privacy, since personal data was shared on build threads
2) AI absorbing the forum
3) Lots of repetitive questions from people who didn't take the class and that likely causes social strain.

Traditionally, up until exactly now, all construction discussion has taken place behind a paywall, in the LHBA students/member's only area.

To gain access, attending the class was a requirement.

The class covers all these sorts of questions and more. It eliminated a massive amount of repetitive Q&A in the forums.
IIRC the class likely suggests that Maple might be worth more to a sawmill than in a log wall.
That might allow you to pay for cheap logs of a different species, or get a 'free' lumber package for a stick build.

And it's hardwood, harder to work with. Driving rebar with a jack hammer might be a problem.
And hardwoods tend to check more.

You want your log home either sitting on a real foundation, or all the sill log sitting evenly on compacted gravel so they rot evenly, maintaining uniform weight distribution (or there abouts, ain't nothing collapsing).
I can't imaging a log home sitting on something called 'barn stones' (but then I only learned what Urbanite was a few years ago).
And I strongly discourage cinder blocks for log home construction, can theoretically be made stout enough, but I've seen too many failures over time.

Thanks 40acrefarm, for being part of the experience.

edited to add:

A quick search of content only viewable by LHBA students/members brought up this gem posted by a student:

"My experience with Maple, Walnut, Hickory, Oak, and Larch, is the bark is fused to it and impossible to remove."

(spelling error corrected)

Which would then lead to cutting the wood to remove the bark, and that has potential downsides (but is industry standard, just not LHBA normal).