Sun Direct Power (formerly Sound Wisdom) SG-1 5,000 Watt Solar Generator

[Timber]

i was fishing up in Meadowlark Lake in WY. there is a base near there ... some jets roared by that leaves a rumbling hard to describe bacause of the location up in the big horns

Streisand Effect ....what you want to happen goes viral the opposite

And then there is that youtube video we need someone to do....Rod??

more fuel for truth

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r257...-Need-Opinions.

[rreidnauer]

WOW! I really need to not go away on weekends anymore!

Look, the guy is unhappy that his bread and butter is getting a bruised reputation, I get that. I merely pointed out lacking information in a video that is mentioned in this thread by the OP. When he decided to criticize my knowledge and weigh insults, I simply answered with facts. He, in one breath, asks if I know anything about "this stuff", while in another, says I have electrical knowledge. Yet, he continues (between regular threats of legal action) to provide deceptive information, such as: "We only have one set of test batteries, and it functions for about twenty tests before it needs recharging." Twenty tests? What? 5 seconds? 30 seconds? a minute? What? It just another baseless claim.

With statements like: "Yes, running an inverter at peak power will kill it fairly quickly, but that one has balls and backbone and will take a lot of killing." and "...and our batteries are designed to take that much power and give it back, day after day." it is this, along with the video missing plenty of factual information, that leads me to call their statements deceptive.

Really, I've been holding back, but I thought that was enough for one post. I offer Joshua some suggestions. Take down the video mentioned at the beginning of this thread. (you know, the one which mentions flat-out false wattage numbers) Also, work on your customer relations. A good company can be graceful during good times, and also on rough roads. His actions here have done nothing to promote his business. Hopefully, he'll see the error of his ways, make the corrections needed, and get back on track.

[Timberwolf]

OMG! I laughed soooo hard reading this.

That made my Monday.

[stamic55]

WOW! Awesome

[edkemper]

It's a concept where some "new" self described expert thinks we are a bunch of country bumpkins living in funky little log homes just outside the ghettos. If this one list subject doesn't dispel that, I'd be surprised. It amazes me how many people we have here with some really exceptional expertise.

I again what to hope that after Rod is finished learning about this subject, I hope he'll share with us. <smile>

Rod, I now know far more on this subject thanks to your help and knowledge. I think we all appreciate your help. It also helps us knowing that we have family members that can steer us away from snake oil sales pitches.

[Timber]

thank you also for your imput lilbluehonda
i think your shorts are safe for now!

like Rod says this solar generator might have some good prospects//at least for emergency sakes when power goes out?
certainly not a off the grid system!

So Rod offered the olive branch...good man

this site is for learning..not fighting...
maybe sound wisdom got some sound advice

[rreidnauer]

Well, the physical product he is selling isn't necessarily bad, and I wouldn't call it snake oil. Merely, (and keep in mind, despite Joshua bringing up other videos and portions of his website, it is the video mentioned in this thread that is the topic of this conversation) how it is presented, is what I take issue with. The general public is quite naive when it comes to things electric. Heck, even the function of a common three-way switch in a home will befuddle many folks. It's all too easy to mislead people when it comes to solar and batteries.

Renewable energy equipment and it's performance is all too often overstated. I've had people ask me to build up a materials list for their home, and after spending time to gather their usage data, and spending a few hours calculating up the required equipment, I don't even get a thank you for my efforts because of the shock of what I presented. I don't undercut my numbers, especially the batteries, which are the most vulnerable portion of an RE system as far as irreversible, user-inflicted damage is concerned.

Here is a great example of overstating a piece of equipment. (completely unrelated to SW) Before the advent of the MPPT charge controller, a solar panel with a rating of, lets say, 100 watts, was never able to put out that much wattage to charge a battery in a real world scenario. The reason is, a solar panel is more or less an amperage pump, and voltage is regulated by the battery itself. Looking on the back of a solar panel, and if you know how to read electrical abbreviations, you'd see something like: "Vpmax - 17.7V" What that means is, that is the voltage which maximum power (the rated 100 watts) is created. Quick math divides 100 watts by 17.7 volts to give us 5.65 amps. The difference between amperage at Vpmax and short circuiting the panel is only a 9% difference typically, so that same panel would be putting out roughly 6.16 amps if shorted across it leads. You can see there is little change in amps, and why I refer to solar panels as "amperage pumps." Now, let's go back to using the panel to charge a battery. We connect them together, and surprise, surprise, the voltage from the panel will drop down to battery voltage plus some depending on the state of charge. Let's say the battery voltage is now showing 13 volts while charging off the panel. We know the amperage will be somewhere between 5.65 and 6.16, and figuring the battery voltage is about 73% between 0v and 17.7v, I can calculate the amps at roughly 5.79 amps. Now multiply 5.79 amps by 13 volts, and you get (drum-roll please) 75.27 watts! Hey, what the?!? The salesmen said these were 100 watt panels! What gives?

That's the nature of the beast, and again, how it's all too easy to deceive the public. Up until the the advent of the MPPT controller (which is able to get full or very near full power out of a panel through fancy electronics) I always believed that panels should have been required to state real world values.

[Timber]

that is some of the best spanish i have ever read...

[jrdavis]

darn those "vacuums".....
you can't live in them or even speak in them any more.
way to go Rod....
Ruining it again for us "susceptible" folks.
<<tongue firmly in cheek>>

BTW -- I've NEVER understood, how you can ETHICALLY say its a 100W if you can only get 75W. Just IMHO.
JD

[Ghostwalker]

Cool thread. Can I play?

I am really amazed at how many of you love to play the numbers game without having the actual product in your hands so you can give "expert" testimony about it.
No, not amazed...my bad...baffled and astounded is closer to the truth.

So, in light of the foregoing "flame war" - (flame war means you can't discredit the product because you don't have one in your hands, so you try to discredit the person...also known as presenting a logical fallacy), would anyone care to debate me on the subject?
Doesn't "flame wars" violate your terms of service also? I think it does.

Last time I went camping (6/6/2011), my SG1 allowed me to watch two movies on my PC (4 hours@540 watts per hour), make and keep warm coffee for 8 hours (900 watts to brew for 4 minutes, then 48 watts to maintain heat), charge my cell phone (3 watts for 20 minutes), maintain my 135 watt fridge 24/7 for 4 days/nights and ran my electric blanket 8 hours per night. It even recharged my batteries for my flashlight and radio.

The unit is mounted on my Suburban.

A few days ago, I jump-started a bulldozer for the county and the local police have my number in case they need power in an emergency (like a night-time wreck).
I have four 8D batteries and two 120 watt panels and one 235 watt panel that COMPLETELY recharges my system in 6.5 hours of direct sun (no clouds).
Each 8D holds 220 amps or 2,640 watts.
Here, let me do the math for you: that is 10,560 watts or 10 WHOLE KWH's to play with PER NIGHT with no sun to operate right off the panels!
Now, if we divide that 10 KWH by the number of hours required, which in my camping case is 8 - sun down to sun up - I can use slightly over 1 KW per hour. That is 1,000 watt hours per hour. That is 1 WHOLE KW I didn't use those nights!

As for the "cheap inverter" one of you claimed that I PERSONALLY OWN is crap...you are sadly mistaken.
That "cheap inverter" maintains my frig, pc, printer, lamp and my quartz heater for cold mornings without even getting warm when NOT camping. And that is with a 100 foot extension cord running from my Suburban to my house.

So, please...tell me again how your product knowledge of something you DO NOT even own is superior to someone who manufactures it or for that matter, OWNS ONE!

Still wanna play? Do any of you have actual experience or do you just speak from hearsay - what you heard someone else say? Thought so.

Quote by Rod - "That's the nature of the beast, and again, how it's all too easy to deceive the public."

I do believe that all of you self-styled "experts" with ZERO knowledge of the product or how well it performs have succeeded in deceiving the public. Good Job!

[edkemper]

Ghostwalker,

I think I can probably speak for the family, we wish you well wherever it is you go next. <wink>

[Ghostwalker]

Well, thank you edkemper.

You know how nomads and gypsies are...we just go wherever our little feet take us, or friends/clients need us to set the record straight.

Give the "family" my best and have fun with your logging adventures.

[Admin]

Hi Everyone,

Mr. Daniels from Sound Wisdom has asked to be able to respond to the discussion here, and we have agreed to allow him to, as long as there is no further name calling or threats. So the NeoViking account has been "unbanned" and we'll see how it goes.

Let's please try to keep it fun and civil everyone.

Best regards,

-The Mgt.

[loghousenut]

How cool is that. Wouldn't it be nice if this thing turned out the way it hardly ever turns out... Pleasant. I'm ready. If any forum on the net can make it happen, this one can.

[rreidnauer]

I'm can only assume Ghostwalker is NeoViking, due to his posts being written in an uncannily similar pen, but this we'll never be able to prove. In any case, on with my comments.

Why would one have to physically own this product to be able to calculate it's functions? Is it sprinkled with pixie dust and can now function beyond the limits of physics? It's simple math, nothing more. Every RE system designer uses this same math to build a system. In your bid to continue attempts to discredit me, you've done so to yourself.
First mistake: "Each 8D holds 220 amps" The battery doesn't hold "amps". Amperage is an electrical unit of current or flow, not capacity. It's capacity is stated as amp-hours. And you do understand, amp-hours are a value at a given discharge rate, right? The higher the draw (amperage) the lower the capacity. (amp-hours) Stating amp-hours means little if you are drawing beyond the rated discharge rate. This is deceptive.

Second mistake: You claim "two 120 watt panels and one 235 watt panel that COMPLETELY recharges my system in 6.5 hours" Your words. So, very simple math concludes: 10,560 watt-hours divided by 475 watts of solar panels you state you have equals 22 hours and 14 minutes recharge time not even counting efficiency losses. (if SW's inline charge controllers are simple switching style, then its going to be more like 29.6 hours) So what is "completely recharged" then? From what state-of-charge were the batteries before beginning to recharge? Without that information, your statement is completely worthless. This is another bit of deceptive commenting I keep pointing out.

Third mistake: You state "10 WHOLE KWH's to play with PER NIGHT" Again, deceptive. Sure the first night you do, but if it takes over 22+ hours to recharge, it is impossible to have that kind of power available each following night. Further, you are talking of discharging the batteries to 0% state-of-charge. You'll get away with this for a short while, but each time you draw down that far, not only does it reduce the capacity of the battery, it also shortens it's overall lifespan. (decreasing ever more rapidly with deeper discharging)

Furthermore, you are comparing your expanded system to their (or your) base model showcased in the video. Again, this thread was to discuss what was in that video. Sure, you can expand the system to 30 batteries and 4000 watts of panels and you'd have yourself a pretty rockin' system, but this is about bragging of a 5000 watt inverter (supposedly drawing 3800 watts) running on two batteries and 240 watts of panels. Will it do it in the short term? Yes it can. Will it be sustainable? No it won't. Please take my advice. Do some research on battery care. I can assure you it will be very beneficial to your wallet.

I have nothing to gain from whether this product sells or not. I have no ties to the RE industry, so I'm not a competitor. I am just some guy who has a pretty extensive electrical knowledge, who is very much in to RE, that sees a lot of wiz-bang claims in this green-revolution push. With that, I leave it to the readers to decide who has what to gain from statements made in this thread.

[donjuedo]

Well said, Rod. Using the units correctly is an important sign of credibility, and often underestimated. And math is either done correctly or it's not. There's no room for opinions in basic math.

I look forward to reading Ghostwalker/NeoViking's measured reply.


Peter

[jrdavis]

Rod -- It sounded to me like 'the ghost' was almost OFFERING a R&D unit like his for you to test. Then maybe you could write an EVAL for all of us (less knowledgeable ones).
I like to SEE and BEHOLD and this sounds like their perfect opportunity to prove it in a LAB type enviornment....
Sort of make a believer out of you (us) and be good advertising too.

awaiting Great things.
JD

[spiralsands]

"Play the numbers game"? The "numbers game", I guess is electrical theory. And electrical theory is mathematical. I'm an electronics technician. I had to learn that "numbers game" before I even peeked into an air traffic control radar transmitter. Rod's an engineer. I guess if electrical theory was a "numbers game", Rod would win with high score. Salespeople don't really have to know how to play the "numbers game". They just have to make the talking points convincing.

[Timber]

http://www.coyotecottage.com/powerplant/system.htm

here is a system that works at a cost of $4,000 in 2003

[Mosseyme]

This has been interesting to watch. Now we have SW silence. Rod your knowledge of the subject makes me feel like I do when my nuke eng son in law starts talking nuke.

[jrdavis]

Must have just been a "ghostwalker"???????????

[Blondie]

Rod, Spiralsands and all,

I am not so sure that the "ad man" did such a good job. My field is cardiac hemodynamics a far fly from anything that could pertain to a solar disussion. I watched the video quite a while ago and thought "This is alittle too good to be true."
I go with Rod. PERIOD.

Blondie

[Steve Wolfe]

Hi Francis. I got a chuckle out of your post since I’m one of those…Yuk….you know…..“sales people”. You are so right for the most part when it comes to retail sales. The good news is that there are a few of us engineers who sell to engineers so we get to do both the numbers and talk the talk. LOL

LD, it would it be great if SW offered a unit for evaluation but I wouldn’t hold your breath. Hey, stranger things have happened.

[LogHomeFeverDan]

Sometimes the old adage.....better to remain quiet and be thought a fool than to speak or type on the internet for that matter, and remove all doubt. Rod I'm very impressed, thank you sir! I always find it difficult when there is a difference of opinion or in this case fact and one party seems more intent on insults than information. I've always noticed, even when I don't grasp the technical aspects, the one simply stating their case and not in a derogatory manner is the truthful one.

Reading this entire thread also reminded me of a story. A gentleman was at the airport terminal in a long line waiting to check in and board the plane. When he was finally second in line he listened with amazement as the gentleman in front of him berated the airline employee for one thing and then another. As he stepped up for his turn he said, "Ma'am I just watched and heard that entire exchange, can you please give me your supervisor's name and contact information? I wish to let your supervisor know how valuable you are to this airline and the professional manner in which you handle challenging customers. You know only deserve recognition you deserve a promotion." At which point the airline associate replied, "Oh that's ok Sir that gentleman is flying to Wisconsin but his bags are headed to California"

[SDP]

Guys, we seriously have to thank you. You know the old adage, "even bad publicity is good publicity?" Well, it's true. Since you put this up, our business has grown tremendously, and our 4K Military/Marine Hardened solar powered backup system is moving so fast we can't keep them in stock. http://sun-direct.net/store.htm We've secured dealers for the Caribbean and West Africa, and our dealer in South Texas is offering a power trailer with a hybrid 4K/windmill system that you tow behind a truck. He's got attention from the State of Texas AND the Federal government, and been asked to put in bids on supplying those trailers to the Park Service and a variety of first responder agencies.

And, frankly, we couldn't have done it without you. Thanks again, guys.

[SDP]

Guys, we seriously have to thank you. You know the old adage, "even bad publicity is good publicity?" Well, it's true. Since you put this up, our business has grown tremendously, and our 4K Military/Marine Hardened solar powered backup system is moving so fast we can't keep them in stock. http://sun-direct.net/store.htm We've secured dealers for the Caribbean and West Africa, and our dealer in South Texas is offering a power trailer with a hybrid 4K/windmill system that you tow behind a truck. He's got attention from the State of Texas AND the Federal government, and been asked to put in bids on supplying those trailers to the Park Service and a variety of first responder agencies.

And, frankly, we couldn't have done it without you. Thanks again, guys.

[rreidnauer]

Welcome back NeoViking/Ghostwalker/SDP. Glad to have helped! Should I expect a commission for all I've done?

Sent from my Galaxy Edge+ using Tapatalk

[loghousenut]

Welcome back NeoViking/Ghostwalker/SDP. Glad to have helped! Should I expect a commission for all I've done?

Sent from my Galaxy Edge+ using Tapatalk

Or maybe a Medal.