The best log home foundation

[Ellsworth]

I loved my father.
I hated my father.

To this day, I'm still learning lessons from him.
You can try it along with me.

His favorite foundation style was Pier Blocks.
It was the only one he taught.

Now try to decipher all the lessons in that.

[Shark]

They have their place....

But then you have to close everything in.....

First time we did modified piers (Sono tubes).

Second time we did ICF.

I would only do ICF again.

jandjloghome.blogspot.com

[rckclmbr428]

After building a hundred or so I refuse to use pier blocks.

[Ellsworth]

1) If as an owner builder you have to subcontract your foundation, consider another course.
Because next you might be tempted to subcontract your walls.

[That's not intended as a slight toward Ronnie Rock Climber]

[Ellsworth]

2) LHBA Pier blocks are extremely hard to subcontract out, and have them done properly and on time (under budget).
If that gives you problems, then perhaps consider that it's not to late to sell the property with half a foundation on it.

[Ellsworth]

3) As an owner builder concerned with finances: using pier blocks rather than a stemwall + footer will typically enable you to skip:

A) water proofing B) venting C) drainage system D) most of the rebar that would be used for a stemwall foundation E) most of the sill material (PT wood and water barrier)

The vapor barrier that would have been used inside a crawl space is not skipped.
If you're not excited to try something new (or at least seriously consider it) to save money and labor, then perhaps this LHBA system is not right for you?

[Ellsworth]

4)

A) Submit your log home plans, with a pier block foundation, to your jurisdiction.

B) If they reject the plan because of the pier blocks, then you are building in the WRONG location.

C) If they approve pier blocks, then you might be building in the RIGHT location.

D) Do step A to see if it leads to B or C, even if you want to build with a stem-wall. You will still learn if you are building in the right location.
If they approve pier blocks, then march in the next day with the stem-wall plan and another check, because you picked the right location.

__________________________________________________ ______________________________
Caveat, as with most things in life, a positive attitude will get you further with the planning department than anything except... wealth or political connections!
(Thanks election year, for all the material!)

D is not totally a joke, just sort of. I'd suggest that you don't make them feel tricked, but perhaps start a conversation using pier blocks to explore their willingness to work with the unorthodox, gauge the resistance. It could matter when it comes to later inspections of your log structure.

[Ellsworth]

5) You can build the forms in the city, in your driveway, and stack them up to save space.

Trailer them to your build site on a Friday, and if the holes are pre-dug then by Monday you might be ready for the pour.

If a continuous footer is required under the piers in your jurisdiction, add some dig time (yuck).

[Ellsworth]

6) The amount of rebar and plywood required for an LHBA pier block system can be scavenged for free in most localities. Regardless of the size home you're building.

[Ellsworth]

7) You can screw up your pier foundation in a lot of ways, and it generally still works out fine.
For instance, if the elevations differ a bit between piers, just use a thicker sill plate or notch the log wall (depending on which way you need to compensate).

[Ellsworth]

8) If your local inspector sees you do something novel, and do it well, then the rest of your build should go even better.
If you screw up your relationship with your local inspector over your pier block foundation, it's not too late to sell property with a foundation on it
(This is half a joke, half reality and some actual psychology. The novel done well always impresses).

[Ellsworth]

9) We had a member in WA, one of the Pauls, who built for approx 15 or 20 years. It was his retirement hobby, up in the mountains.
He's the guy who built a log boom crane.

He reminds me that some build slow by choice or necessity.

With piers, a fellow could drive up on a Friday with bags of concrete mix. Spend the weekend mixing and pouring on site and over two days he might have finished three to five piers.

[Ellsworth]

10) Making the pier block forms is the second hardest mathematical task of a build (stairs being the first!).

If you can't do the math, or develop a hack, then perhaps your first course of logs should be cedar.
Laid upon the ground!

(Sure, this one is half a joke.)

[Ellsworth]

11) Buy your raw land cheap enough so you can break even, if you need to walk away during or right after the foundation phase.
It might not be the ideal location, if you can't do that.

Edited to add:
Opps, this isn't pier specific.

[Ellsworth]

To be clear, I'm imaging most of these lessons. A few were articulated by Skip.
AFAIK, Skip mostly liked piers because the only decent alternative at the time was a traditional stemwall / footer.
Using pier blocks saved time and money.

One reason we moved away from piers was because a few jurisdictions (in CA, OR and WA) started requiring a continuous footer under the piers.
Once you have to do all the excavation, then other options jumped into the hole.

AFAIK, the only reason some jurisdictions require the footer is so the piers might move in unison during an earthquake.
If the goal is to hold them in place, in relationship to each other while under seismic loading, then it shouldn't matter if that's done at the top or the bottom of the piers.
With that constraint, perhaps engineering solutions exist that are cheaper and easier than a traditional footer.

So my question is this, why not use the wall logs as the 'footers' for a pier block foundation?

There should be three or more different ways to accomplish that goal.
It might require some metal components, like brackets, flat iron, et cetera (likely not).
It might require replacing the rebar that holds the piers to the logs with grade 8 or grade 9 all-thread (approx 25% price difference between rod grades).
It might require two or three all-thread in each pier.
It might require square or round piers.

Edited to add:
The potential 'hinged movement' that is perpendicular to the log wall could be controlled by adding log beams (approx five to six additional logs on a small cabin build).

Beams on the interior of structure, stretching from exterior wall to exterior wall, resting atop opposite pier blocks and affixed at both ends with all-thread and rebar.

Edited to add:
It might be a simpler system to run a standard log first course, and then adjacent to that run a course of milled 10x12s.

The milled beams are full length, bolted to the foundation and side spiked (or through bolted) to the adjacent first layer of wall logs.
The milled beams become the over sized ledger board for the floor joists.

That double first layer, and multiple pier attachment points, might be enough to prevent hinged movement in all 4 directions.

Preliminary ideas are over, they might fly as well as a log off a low hill, this will take an engineer.

[RockyRaccoon]

9) We had a member in WA, one of the Pauls, who built for approx 15 or 20 years. It was his retirement hobby, up in the mountains.
He's the guy who built a log boom crane.

He reminds me that some build slow by choice or necessity.

With piers, a fellow could drive up on a Friday with bags of concrete mix. Spend the weekend mixing and pouring on site and over two days he might have finished three to five piers.

When I was making some calculations on how much concrete each of the piers would take if done by hand, it was coming out to about 0.5 cubic yards per (3ft square bottom). With some of the DIY mixers, it looked like I'd need about 3 batches for each pier. Is it common to add one batch right on top of another?

As for building slow, I tend to do a lot of 'thinkering' in the beginning phases of things.

[Ellsworth]

When I was making some calculations... it was coming out to about 0.5 cubic yards per (3ft square bottom). With some of the DIY mixers, it looked like I'd need about 3 batches for each pier. Is it common to add one batch right on top of another?

Sounds about right, yes right on top is aok. You deaerate when the forum is full.

[Ellsworth]

This is not a knock to RockyRaccoon, or Gideons Bible. I've been following his build thread in the member's area and it has caused me to reflect on this thread and pier blocks. So much so that I need to add one more thing to the list.

12) If you are not building on flat land (A = flat land), that has enough space around the building footprint to drive a telehandler carrying a 30'+ log perpendicular to the machine (B = a moat of land), then do NOT use piers (C = piers).*

Expressed another way, if your pier block forms are all different dimensions, or mostly different dimensions, then don't use a pier block foundation system.

• If A (flat land) and B (a moat of land) are present, then use C (piers).
• If A has mild slope, but B is not present, then do not buy the land.
• If A is mild and B is present, then maybe violate C, but making a bunch of custom pier forms takes a lot more time. But... it's a better idea for your second build. Your first build will be enough of a marathon.
• If you are a pro in the trades, then different rules apply to almost everything I've written. Ditto if your budget is inexhaustible.

First butt and pass build = flat build site, with a nice moat of flat land around the foundation footprint. You will not regret having those attributes.*

Complexity adds time, cost and risk to the project. You will not regret keeping it simple.*

There is related information to Pier Rule 12 on this thread about land selection.
https://community.loghomebuilders.or...756#post179756

*Stated as absolutes. Of course with eight billion people in the world, there are exceptions to the rule about not experiencing and regret. Some people tend to experience regret regardless of choice path, as a lot in life.

[Ellsworth]

13) A lot of members / students have used standard continuous foundations (beefed up a bit for the weight of a log home. Many have used insulated concrete forms (ICFs) with great success.

We strongly discourage the use of cinder blocks for a lot of reasons. They can be 'done right,' but they are most often done wrong. I've never seen a member home built upon cinder blocks.

The phrase that LHBA instructors have often used in the past is something like this: "Sure you can do that, but we don't recommend it. Please be aware that our 'tech support' is inversely proportional to the degree you deviate from our suggestions."

There is a caveat: a very deep frost line. That might be a reason that ICF$ and a full ba$ement might make $en$e. That would $ure add $ome expen$e onto a build ver$u$ piers in a region with a more shallow frost line.