Solar Power for dummies...off grid hook up.

[Timber]

Ok solar world $4.75 per watt...installed with plans and permits on standard roof. Ground mounts slighly more. Thats in CA. so im sure its beatable

[edkemper]

What would he sell per watt without installation?

[Timber]

I asked but no answer
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/brands/solarworld
Looks like Solar Worlds main location is Germany. They have been making panels since 1988.

[Timberwolf]

So I have a question for all the energy guru's amongst ya'll (frikin' 'merican speak).

Given where i live, there's a fair number of low sun days. A generator is a given.

Fuel costs aside, is there a downside to a small genset to charge a battery bank regularly (thinking possibly even a woodgas system) and foregoing solar, except for the summer time when plenty of sunlight is available?

I've run camps strictly on a generator for power, but without batteries it seems like such a waste, so much unused energy when the unit is running without any load/demand.

[StressMan79]

So I have a question for all the energy guru's amongst ya'll (frikin' 'merican speak).

Given where i live, there's a fair number of low sun days. A generator is a given.

Fuel costs aside, is there a downside to a small genset to charge a battery bank regularly (thinking possibly even a woodgas system) and foregoing solar, except for the summer time when plenty of sunlight is available?

I've run camps strictly on a generator for power, but without batteries it seems like such a waste, so much unused energy when the unit is running without any load/demand.

In college I optimized a solar system for Iowa city. Turned out that you were ahead
Running a generator, w/o any panels (or batteries) Panels have gotten a lot cheaper, batteries are about the same.

Sent from my VS986 using Forum Runner

[rreidnauer]

I actually run a generator a few hours daily, since my battery capacity is small on my temporary setup. Cost about $20 a week to run. It's a little on the big side, at 3250 watts, to handle the sewer pump if it needs to run. One of those 1800 watt Honda or Suzuki inverter generators would be way, way more fuel efficient. (and barely hear it when it is running)

[Timberwolf]

Even At $20/week that's still less than what i pay for hydro every month!

[sdart]

We have done that for over 20 years in our "other" house. Depending on how many people are here and charging their laptops, etc. we run the generator every other day or every third day for a couple of hours in the evening to charge up the (large) battery bank. It's a diesel generator and diesel is cheap where we are. Downsides are the noise and having to go out there and turn it on and off, fill up the tank... and the danger that if we are not here and someone else is using the house, they will run the batteries down too far. People who are not used to being off the grid have no conception of how much energy they are using. We're in the process of finally converting to solar, but this is a very sunny area and it makes the most sense. In the past we have only had one panel to top up the batteries when we are gone.

[Timberwolf]

Now, here's a loaded question, what is a good target (realistic) monthly power consumption amount? 500Kwh? 1000Kwh? I know this is a hugely variable number. I'd like to get an idea based on current on-grid consumption, vs what can be produced between solar and generator supplement.

[loghousenut]

We have done that for over 20 years in our "other" house. Depending on how many people are here and charging their laptops, etc. we run the generator every other day or every third day for a couple of hours in the evening to charge up the (large) battery bank. It's a diesel generator and diesel is cheap where we are. Downsides are the noise and having to go out there and turn it on and off, fill up the tank... and the danger that if we are not here and someone else is using the house, they will run the batteries down too far. People who are not used to being off the grid have no conception of how much energy they are using. We're in the process of finally converting to solar, but this is a very sunny area and it makes the most sense. In the past we have only had one panel to top up the batteries when we are gone.

Our solution, in the old days, was a Honda 600w generator. Whisper quiet. It would run 4-1/2 hours on 1/2 gallon of gas (7.25 kg) and we'd fire it up to watch a movie tape and let it charge batteries til it ran out of gas.

We had a big generator for washing clothes or running the table saw.

[donjuedo]

Now, here's a loaded question, what is a good target (realistic) monthly power consumption amount? 500Kwh? 1000Kwh? I know this is a hugely variable number. I'd like to get an idea based on current on-grid consumption, vs what can be produced between solar and generator supplement.

You're right about the disclaimers.

I (often) average 10 KWH per day, so times 30, that's 300 KWH per month.

Now for my qualifiers:
1 guy
No AC
No heat (that's gas now)
Most light bulbs are LED (bought cheap, but good light)

So 500 KWH per person is generous, under the same conditions as me.

Have you checked you hydro bill? It should show you what you're paying for. Do be careful about meter readings. Numbers on the meter are often not KWH, but get multiplied by a "multiplier" (a scale factor) to tell you KWH. Also, you might get distracted by some of the billing figures. Specifically, in the US, many (all?) electric companies are now charging separately for energy and for distribution. This lowers the amount they pay for energy when a homeowner sells back, but it can also complicate the study of that bill. Just look for the KWH and ignore the rest of that distraction. You'll see what you're actually using already, with loads you already know.

Also, it's good to get to know specifics on those loads. I'd recommend a Kill-A-Watt meter, or a competitor with better display viewing angle. It can tell you power in use right now, and total energy used since power on. You could plug it into your fridge outlet, and your fridge into the meter, and measure over the course of a week or month, or however long you like. I'd check the washer and dryer, too.

[Timberwolf]

You're right about the disclaimers.

I (often) average 10 KWH per day, so times 30, that's 300 KWH per month.

Now for my qualifiers:
1 guy
No AC
No heat (that's gas now)
Most light bulbs are LED (bought cheap, but good light)

So 500 KWH per person is generous, under the same conditions as me.

Have you checked you hydro bill? It should show you what you're paying for. Do be careful about meter readings. Numbers on the meter are often not KWH, but get multiplied by a "multiplier" (a scale factor) to tell you KWH. Also, you might get distracted by some of the billing figures. Specifically, in the US, many (all?) electric companies are now charging separately for energy and for distribution. This lowers the amount they pay for energy when a homeowner sells back, but it can also complicate the study of that bill. Just look for the KWH and ignore the rest of that distraction. You'll see what you're actually using already, with loads you already know.

Also, it's good to get to know specifics on those loads. I'd recommend a Kill-A-Watt meter, or a competitor with better display viewing angle. It can tell you power in use right now, and total energy used since power on. You could plug it into your fridge outlet, and your fridge into the meter, and measure over the course of a week or month, or however long you like. I'd check the washer and dryer, too.

Oh trust me, as an Ontarian, I've been studying my electric bill since i've been receiving one. And i own a kill-a-watt.

2 months of usage = 1800Kwh.

Cost of electricity: $196.15
Delivery: $126.86
Regulatory charges: $12.25
Debit retirement charge: $0.00 (somehow qualified for an exemption this month, normally about $13)
Tax: $43.58

Total: $378.84

[donjuedo]

Ouch.
Where is it all going?
How many people?

[rreidnauer]

That's not really bad at all. Thats about 1.25kw average, for a grid tied home, probably about normal

[LowKey]

Oh trust me, as an Ontarian, I've been studying my electric bill since i've been receiving one. And i own a kill-a-watt.

2 months of usage = 1800Kwh.

Cost of electricity: $196.15
Delivery: $126.86
Regulatory charges: $12.25
Debit retirement charge: $0.00 (somehow qualified for an exemption this month, normally about $13)
Tax: $43.58

Total: $378.84

I....I don't know what to say.....for the love of all that is holy move somewhere where you can roll your own juice and escape that extortion racket!!! You're behind enemy lines, dammit!

[Timberwolf]

Thanks to no term limit, and institutionalized (read big city and union) voting, we now have the distinction of having the single largest debt of ANY state in the free world.

$300,000,000,000 (yup BILLION) for a population of 13.6 million.

No signs of stopping, in fact all signs point to MOAR MOAR MOAR govt excess and spending and waste.

[rreidnauer]

Oh, come on. Everybody's doing it. It's the cool thing to do. Like teenage drinking and driving. How can that be a bad thing?

[Timberwolf]

Cap and trade (aka carbon tax) is the next big thing on it's way. Right on the heals of having just finished selling off the last of the country's gold reserves.

[Timber]

Oh trust me, as an Ontarian, I've been studying my electric bill since i've been receiving one. And i own a kill-a-watt.

2 months of usage = 1800Kwh.

Cost of electricity: $196.15
Delivery: $126.86
Regulatory charges: $12.25
Debit retirement charge: $0.00 (somehow qualified for an exemption this month, normally about $13)
Tax: $43.58

Total: $378.84

Wow...delivery charge...is that pizza or fries?

[Timberwolf]

I believe that is for lube.

[wannabuild]

Oh come on Timberwolf, I thought it was all roses out in Ontario land.
How come the folks out there keep voting them Lieberals in...
Sorry..

[rreidnauer]

Wow...delivery charge...is that pizza or fries?

Transmission (delivery) and connection fees are pretty much the norm in the States. Sad part is, even if you don't use any power at all, you still get hit with those charges every month.

[edkemper]

Cap and trade (aka carbon tax) is the next big thing on it's way. Right on the heals of having just finished selling off the last of the country's gold reserves.

Sorry, but I have to laugh, well maybe snicker. Most of us, I'll bet, don't have a lot of money in gold. Far less in the younger generations. Mostly because over the last 35 years, all the jobs got trickled down to other countries. However, admittedly, those other countries are much better off.

[rreidnauer]

In the event of an EOTW scenario, gold is worthless anyhow. You can't eat it. You can't warm yourself with it. Heck, unless it's 24 carat, it doesn't even make for good bullets.

Making one as self-sufficient as possible is where true investment needs to be placed.

If you feel you still need a commodity for trading, then things like cigarettes, ammunition, (and especially primers) and alcohol will be much more attractive to someone, than a heavy lump of metal.

[LowKey]

In the event of an EOTW scenario, gold is worthless anyhow. You can't eat it. You can't warm yourself with it. Heck, unless it's 24 carat, it doesn't even make for good bullets.

Making one as self-sufficient as possible is where true investment needs to be placed.

If you feel you still need a commodity for trading, then things like cigarettes, ammunition, (and especially primers) and alcohol will be much more attractive to someone, than a heavy lump of metal.

They might find the ammo desirable, but I suggest not using it as a trade good. Ditto for anything else easily used against you.

Copper tubing might fetch a good price. Hand tools. Nails.

Better yet, set yourself up with a machine shop/blacksmiths shop.... they supply the metal.

Also....books.

[donjuedo]

I can't find prices on their site. Any idea how many dollars per watt for panels alone?

The federal government charges an import duty to raise prices to benefit US makers, but prices are falling anyway. Current panel market ($/watt):

$1+ is common
$0.80 is a nice discount, not hard to get
$0.50 can be had with a little patience
$0.25 is what I got with plenty of patience last October.

Today's email from SunElec.com brought another listing for Grade B panels (like I got), for 28 cents per watt. It is not advertised on their home page, though. If anyone is interested, I can provide more info.


Peter