10kW wind turbine v solar

[edkemper]

Been looking at power generation. This is something that I didn't see before.

10kW wind Turbine grid tied system with 40 foot tower
$27,000


v

10kW Solar 10kW grid tied system
$45,000

Perhaps this is what will be the deciding factor. Especially considering I have a year round 10+ MPH wind. Also considering I have very cloudy winters.

Am I missing something other than my marbles?

[BoFuller]

If you truly have good wind then it is good. Most people "think" they have good wind, but really don't. I would recommend getting one of those wind measuring devices (annenometer???) and post it for a year before laying out that kind of cash. From what I studied, you have to have good uninterrupted wind, way above trees and obstacles. Most wind we are accustomed to is really turbulent, swirling around trees and buildings. This is not good for wind power. I wish we could, but it would take at least a 100 ft tower to get to "smooth" wind.

[BoFuller]

http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/showthread.php?14992-Wind-Project

Ed, go to this site and read a bit about wind power. It seems that the industry grossly over-promises. My 2 cents.

[edkemper]

Bo,

And many farmers are changing out their wind generators and going solar. But with newer technology, maybe it's a better choice for me. Long periods of clouds yearly. Constant wind. Only 10 inches of rain and 18 inches of snow. 4 inches of snow would be a heavy storm where my property is. Not sure a solar unit could keep up. Not sure I could make up the difference on the fairly short sunny season.

But I'll read as much on that site as I can. Tanks Bo.

[StressMan79]

why are you generating 10kw? AND grid-tied? Watch your consuption, you can get by with 1-2kw and never draw from the grid (with batteries anyway). Anyway, if you are going grid tied, I can see little sense in using ANY re/solar system. $4/watt for the entire system is what I am shooting for. 1.2kw will be my array. lots of batteries, etc. I'll be spending ~35cents/kwh over the life of my place.

well, I'm a nut that thinks the dollar's time is limited, and await massive inflation. If that DON'T happen, I lose, but if it does, I win in spades. But all that aside, I don't think you could recoup 10,000 worth of electricity over 20 years. That means you have to save 500 bucks on electric every year for 20 years for every 10k you install... so your solar system must save you 2250 per year... plus any interest on loans...

not likely.

[edkemper]

Peter,

My healthy(?) friend. I just plucked 10kW out of a hat. I know it was high but I was just picking a number. I could have picked 2kW or 4kW, I just didn't know what the divisions were for wind generating systems. I'm going to have at least two houses. A 30x30 and one a bit smaller. A shop where I expect to be using some power, but won't be running a retail welding shop. Just personal ranch stuff. Electric tools. Electric fencing, miles of electric fences. And inside the house early almost 8-9 months a year. Gonna have to find things to do during the cold weather. May need to power some water pumps also. Grid tied seems a no brainer. But won't be buying a system until I figure out how much I'm using once we get into the house. Just researching.

[BoFuller]

well, I'm a nut that thinks the dollar's time is limited, and await massive inflation. If that DON'T happen, I lose, but if it does, I win in spades.

You're not the only one. I just hope I can get my spread built before it happens.

[BoFuller]

I agree with Peter, you'll never recoup the investment. You go off-grid because you have to, or because you think the system will fail someday and then you have an alternative. My case is both. But if you are on the grid, there's little point in paying to produce electricity by wind or solar. Considering all the initial investment, it costs 5 to 10 times as much as grid. Some like to think that is is free when it's all done, but if you average out what you paid for equipment over the life of it, it ain't cheap, let alone free.

[StressMan79]

you'll never recoup the investment. You go off-grid because you have to, or because you think the system will fail someday and then you have an alternative.

Indeed. My nearest Neighbor ia right at 1 mile away. I don't know what 200 amp service would run. But then again I'm building off grid so as not to pay taxes on my place, build without permits or the "man" breathing down my neck.

Anyway, having a place with lights on when the economy crashes will be pretty sweet.

[BarstowRat]

What is the trade off? If you start with two equal power sources like the 10Kw mentioned above, which is the better long term deal, assuming that either is ideal for use. Wind is cheaper upfront, whereas solar is more, but what are long term maintenance cost? Will solar outlast wind, justifying the greater cost? And which one will pay for itself first, including maintenance? I understand being grid tied as you can sell surplus back to the electric company, but for discussion purposes, lets say we are not tied to grid, so we must account for batteries.

[jrdavis]

Hey 'Rat
good to see you're still around.'got class' scheduled. :)

Peter --
I chose a link from bo to another link and found that I'm in the Purple 8+ MPH wind zone. (Loess Hills, Iowa)
We have flag waving wind 3 to 4 days a week. Hard to pick a day for a bonfire sometimes....
old rule of thumb is --- if the flag is waving straight is 20MPH or better.

[BarstowRat]

Yes still around, been away, lots going on, planning a move to OR in the future. No class yet, but certainly will before we move since we are only two hours away from Vegas right now. Nice to be noticed by the way LOL.

[logaholic]

I would recommend solar unless you REALLY have exceptional wind. I would highly recommend actually measuring your average wind speed, then de-rating what you would expect by a significant amount to come up with a reasonable number of what you can actually expect. Everything in the wind sector is over rated and hyped, on top of the many moving parts you just put on a pole up in the air that will not be cheap or easy to maintain/repair.

Solar can be installed on the ground where it is accessible, and there are NO MOVING PARTS! It simply works. I was considering doing both solar and wind for our off grid setup, but after considering the hassle of a wind generator, I would rather spend the money on Solar.

That being said, unless the grid was inaccessible or prohibitively expensive, or I was concerned about the grid going down, I don't know if I would be going through the hassle. It is true that you will likely see a return on your investment in 10-20 years, sooner if your utility rates increase drastically, but unless you go all out and do a grid tie with battery backup system, all you are essentially doing is making an investment in energy futures.

By no means am I trying to talk you out of any of these scenarios, but rather try to give you a different perspective to consider.

[edkemper]

The more I learn about the area I bought my land in, the less Solar it appears. I have an almost constant breeze in the 10-15 mph rang. I also have a growing season of only about 90-100 days per year. Meaning temperature and sun.

I have power lines on my property so I think that is going to have to be my best choice.

[exsailor]

Ed,
while deciding, and it seems you pretty much have, look at these two sites. They have some pretty reasonable prices and deals.
http://www.otherpower.com/guemes04front.html
http://store.otherpower.com/
These are nuts and bolts kind of places that teach, supply building kits, or finished wind turbines.

[edkemper]

Hey ex,

Thanks for the help.

One of my problems is how many farmers and ranchers that have had windmills for decades seem to be moving toward solar as replacements. They say they have been far too much on maintenance and repairs.

My property is mostly a lightly forested (second growth) area. The trees would tend to be a problem unless I had a tower I needed oxygen to mount the unit on top of with. Not practical unless I clear an awful lot of trees.

Besides, with limited needs for power and limited bodies living there, not sure I'd live long enough to see it pay for itself. I'm not interested in financing anything and big outlays up front would stop the process.