Solar panel options--upfront payment or financing??

[robertmile10_rm]

After a lot of head banging I finally decided to go for Solar panel for my home. I did a lot of research on various web sites including www. Freecleansolar.com. The good thing about this website is that it gave the price comparisons straightaway. Also I got info about the tax credits, solar rebates, financing and leasing.
I could understand that I do not have to pay upfromt for the cost of solar panel.There are a lot of finacing schemes available. Since I have a good credit rating I think I will qualify. Somebody please advise what will be the cheapest way, upfront or financing??

[rreidnauer]

That's a simple one. The "cheapest way" has to be pay upfront. How could financing be cheaper when you must pay interest on top of principle? (unless there's a government credit which pays all interest) If the government allows you to just deduct the interest off your income, you are still paying around 79% of the accumulated interest. There are a lot of ways to tie a knot, but one thing is certain. The company needs to turn a profit. You will pay, it's just a matter of whether it's now, or later . . . with interest.
If you can afford to tie up the cash , buy up front and claim the g'ment rebates come tax day, to get as much as you can back.

[loghousenut]

Three years ago most folks woulda said you should refinance and take all that equity you've gained in the last two years from your home and improve your situation by installing solar panels and a new car. We weren't smart enough to do that when we had the chance so our place is still paid off and we are building a log home on it debt free.

Pay for the panels the minute you get them. Run a generator or coleman lantern until then. Credit is fine if you are the one getting the interest.

[Timber]

And I thought you lived in a trailer? Trailer equity?

[loghousenut]

Just because nobody woulda loaned any money on the ugly trailer doesn't mean we aren't glad to be out of debt. OK, OK, You caught me using literary license to promote a metaphore describing a semi-fictional scenario to prove a point that probably doesn't need proving on this forum.
Still, when we used to have financial discussions in the breakroom at work, I was the dumb hick that lived in the ugly trailer in the woods, while the majority of my coworkers were living the good life sucking financed dollars out of their cute little eight year old townhoses. Now I am building a log home on a pretty six acre country estate and they are paying for their 2005 model BMW's for the remainder of their latest 30 year remortgage... And of course some of them have lost their homes and are renting.
I wonder... If the ugly trailer had been a house in town, would my wife and I have talked each other into refinancing so we could enjoy our equity away, or would we have been smart enough to make double payments and try to pay it off early.
Debt is a scarey thing for me. I am reminded of one of my coworkers who has put his heart and soul into building his version of a log home for the last five years. He had purchased land when the price was nearing it's highest price and then taken out a construction loan. As he neared completion of the house his investment was suddenly losing value faster than he was putting value into it. When he was through raiding his 401K and selling whatever he could just to finish the house, he came up short and started missing payments. He felt his only hope was to get the house ready to occupy in the hopes that he could refinance for a long enough period to be able to afford the house he had just built. The bank ended up with the house two months ago. He is very bitter but acknowledges that his dream got the best of him and he tried to keep up with the wealthy neighbors. He has never understood what my wife and I are doing and can't understand why his helpful advice rarely seems to apply to our situation. We are not close and I have never been invited to his place and he seems uninterested in my invitations. I feel so fortunate to have the ugly trailer.
PS... Pay cash for the solar panels.

[StressMan79]

"You can't always get what you want..." Solar panels have finally started to come down in price, If I were you, I'd get a 45W HF unit for $220 (full retail), then if TEOTWAWKI comes, you'll have that. If it don't, save your money and buy what you need, with cash. This includes your solar panels. You can pay up to $10/Watt without trying very hard. You can pay 1/4 that with a bit of shopping. If TEOWAWKI comes later than sooner, the prices will likely continue to drop (3 yrs ago $4/watt was a good price). In another 4, price may go as low as 1/watt.
Anyway, get a safety net now, and save your money for a whole house system and pay with cash when you can afford it.
-Peter

[ragdump]

Ragdump
Cheap Solar is here they have actually gone up some in price but it's still the most inexpensive place to buy I've ever found

<a href="http://sunelec.com/">http://sunelec.com/</a>
"But if you try sometimes you will find get what you need"

[StressMan79]

those are really good prices. You can't really get hurt paying 1.82/Watt.

-Peter

[dgc]

Just because nobody woulda loaned any money on the ugly trailer doesn't mean we aren't glad to be out of debt. OK, OK, You caught me using literary license to promote a metaphore describing a semi-fictional scenario to prove a point that probably doesn't need proving on this forum.
Still, when we used to have financial discussions in the breakroom at work, I was the dumb hick that lived in the ugly trailer in the woods, while the majority of my coworkers were living the good life sucking financed dollars out of their cute little eight year old townhoses. Now I am building a log home on a pretty six acre country estate and they are paying for their 2005 model BMW's for the remainder of their latest 30 year remortgage... And of course some of them have lost their homes and are renting.
I wonder... If the ugly trailer had been a house in town, would my wife and I have talked each other into refinancing so we could enjoy our equity away, or would we have been smart enough to make double payments and try to pay it off early.
Debt is a scarey thing for me. I am reminded of one of my coworkers who has put his heart and soul into building his version of a log home for the last five years. He had purchased land when the price was nearing it's highest price and then taken out a construction loan. As he neared completion of the house his investment was suddenly losing value faster than he was putting value into it. When he was through raiding his 401K and selling whatever he could just to finish the house, he came up short and started missing payments. He felt his only hope was to get the house ready to occupy in the hopes that he could refinance for a long enough period to be able to afford the house he had just built. The bank ended up with the house two months ago. He is very bitter but acknowledges that his dream got the best of him and he tried to keep up with the wealthy neighbors. He has never understood what my wife and I are doing and can't understand why his helpful advice rarely seems to apply to our situation. We are not close and I have never been invited to his place and he seems uninterested in my invitations. I feel so fortunate to have the ugly trailer.
PS... Pay cash for the solar panels.


I agree completely. When I relocated from Jackson, MS to another town in the state, I put a "for sale by owner" sign in my mortgaged house in Jacksontown and started renting a 16x80 trailer in a rural part of our new area until we sell our house and start on our path to freedom. Being a lawyer in one of the oldest and largest law firms in MS, I took some heat for my choice of housing. Some of my colleagues were aghast that I would let others in society know that a lawyer at "this prestigious firm" lived in a trailer! For shame!
I have no qualms about living in the tin box until I head down another road. I come from poor family who thought a new double-wide trailer was like hitting the lottery. I know better, but I also know that trailers can be the gateway to the freedom we all so cherish. So, although it is cramped for my family of four with all our furniture and other belongings, I am quite happy to be in a tin box with no mortgage (after we sell our other house) while I pay cash for land and building materals to start our dream home. Renting isn't ideal, but I can think of worse arrangements. Besides, the rent is CHEAP!
DGC

[ccosborne3]

Good for you man! Actually for a guy in your position it's a pretty ballsy move. I'm a busdriver and I mentioned to a couple of my co-workers that I was thinking about getting a trailer while I built a place and the reaction wasn't quite what I hoped. One of them offered to lend me money and the other one has been asking me about my gambling habits ever since. They're both good guys and they mean well but getting them to understand the plan is a little difficult. I'm not even gonna bother anymore, full speed ahead and I'll invite them over when everything's complete.
I was watching one of the morning television shows and there was a segment about the difficulty credit worthy borrowers are having getting mortgages. One of the talking heads asked a financial expert what people could do about it and the response was to put the money in a short term investment and apply again in six months. Saving up and paying with cash wasn't on the table, I doubt it's ever crossed any of their minds. The concept of suffering a little to come out way ahead in the long run is more or less an affront to some. Historically, America is the land of milk, honey, and easy living on easy credit terms. You've never had to suffer here to come out ahead. That was true until the sixties and seventies rolled around.
Things are different now but most still seem to be existing back in the free love period. They'll catch on eventually, they'll have to. For decades, in a typical American household there was one breadwinner. He would work 40 hours a week, have weekends off, and not have to work himself too hard to earn his living. Things changed, The breadwinners for the most part had to work two jobs to make a living. Things changed again, now both parents have to work (sometimes several jobs) to pay that damned mortgage and in many cases that's still not enough.
It's not really small mindedness that you're running into. It's more of a public misconception or failed group think. Trailers have a bad rep, people view them as the end of the line rather than a stepping stone to a new beginning. Sometimes you have to go against the grain of societal opinion to get ahead. For every guy like you that is willing to accept the percieved hit to his status there are a hundred more that fear rejecting the ridiculous system that we've built for ourselves. Everyone wants to do well for their family, unfortunately most won't take the steps that are neccesary to actually completing that goal. Instead of downsizing they supersize. Instead of eliminating debt they increase it and compound the mistake with second and third mortgages, ridiculous car payments, expensive vacations, and so on. It's hard to go against group think. Going with the crowd is ingrained in us early, possibly even before conception. Racial memory. Everyone wants to belong.
Eventually more and more people will be doing it your way. The LHBA way, it makes sense. You'll be leapfrogging the naysayers and leaving them way behind in a very short period. The people snickering behind your back will eventually be asking how you did it. The guy who's five years into his thirty year mortgage right now will still have twenty two back-breaking years to look forward to by the time you're beautiful home is done and paid for, provided he doesn't take out another mortgage to redo the bathroom and kitchen in the coming years. Don't get me wrong, I'm not rooting against anybody's success and I certainly don't wish financial hardship on anyone. I just think that it's very difficult to succeed with a traditional mortgage, even if everybody else thinks it's the way to go.

[Captn]

I can't WAIT to take this class!
The concept of not being a slave to my mortgage company!
I've just started down this path, although I must say that I've tried to be smart about our finances, although we had a couple of credit cards, have two car payments, but only one mortgage with about 20% equity.
The market has come back enough that I cashed out some investments and ALL the credit cards are history this week. I cut them up and tossed them on Monday.
Next is one of the cars .... I've got to get rid of one of those payments at a minimum.
The thought that the wife and I could be mortgage free is UNBELIEVABLE! It's time for the debt to go by by and for us to live in a different definition of paradise.

Mark

[edkemper]

I love the idea we need a mortgage for tax purposes. Just using some hypothetical round numbers.
A couple of assumptions:
You are in a 25% tax bracket (for ease).
You pay $1000 to interest per month (for ease).
You write off $12,000 interest off you taxes saving you $3,000.
You paid $12,000, saving you $3,000 in tax payment. ($12,000 divided by 25%)
From my way of thinking, not paying the $12,000 per year interest you actually get a $9,000 raise.

[donjuedo]

Eventually more and more people will be doing it your way. The LHBA way, it makes sense.


Ii does make sense. I would expect word of the LHBA way to spread, but I would not expect a greater portion of society to "wake up" and "get it". Our forefathers detested the idea of credit for a long time. Times did change and the motive was an easier life, right away, it seems. But to see society switch back to making sacrifices first, to live better later, is what I don't see. Just because the LHBA way is right and it's compelling to those who give it a good look, does not mean society will change. That's just my jaded opinion. :-)

Peter

[Timber]

To get something clarified.....I never made fun of anyone living in a trailer....I have lived in some nice trailers growing up. We had a Gear in WY. that had a slide outin the living room kitchen area that was huge. It withstood the WY. weather too. I might be living in a pole barn or 5th wheel to get on my property sooner.

[loghousenut]

I sure never thought you were making fun of MY ugly trailer... But you could if you want to. Before the ugly trailer it was a school bus.

[edkemper]

It is said that 60% of our national budget goes to service debt. That means that if we paid the debt off, we could lower our taxes by 60% and the government would still get to spend the same amount on new things.
Peter,
I don't think we want to change society into thinking our way. Then everyone would have what we have. &lt;smile&gt; We are about so much more than simply building log homes. And we are always welcoming new arrivals to our family. It's a diverse family with a lot of us having knowledge that others don't and are always willing to help. Have you read some of the Math Calculations that go so far over my head I loose site of the answers. I don't have to be able to do the math. Cause there are some amazing mathematicians in the family. If the question comes up, there'll be someone smarter than me to help. Doesn't matter whether it's math, money, electricity or plumbing (etc.).
Keep in mind, I'm an old fart. It took me almost 60 years to get here. Now I'm motivated and working to make it happen. I already bought the land. I have a few toys I want to buy before I start so it'll take as long as I'm here letting my daughter finish high school to get things going. Then I'll live on my property in my travel trailer and build my home/s. While I wait, I'll get it fully fenced, and hopefully start getting the soil and irrigation ready for crops and livestock. I'm lucky, I'm at a point in my life where I'm starting to thinking seriously about my retirement and how to pay for it.
Stick around for a while. You might be very glad you did.

[wingsfan92]

Have you researched DIY solar panels? Solar panels can be cheaper if made yourself. Depending on what size you need.
There are tons of guides online. You do need basic skills with making a wood frame, and soldering solar cells together.

[ragdump]

Ragdump
Solar has come down in price depending on how many you want and what voltage you can buy new panels for .98 to 1.82 per watt from Sun Electronics I don't think you could build them that cheap and what you build would never match a factory built one

[Yuhjn]

I love the idea we need a mortgage for tax purposes. Just using some hypothetical round numbers
From my way of thinking, not paying the $12,000 per year interest you actually get a $9,000 raise.


I think the idea that you WANT mortgage interest for tax purposes is false. On the other hand, it's better than long term renting, for a number of reasons, which is why you often hear people who are not fully educated on the subject suggest that mortgage interest is good.
Best bet is owning outright
Next best bet is a low interest short-term mortgage
After that it's long term and higher interest
After that is renting
At least in the long term

[StressMan79]

I think the idea that you WANT mortgage interest for tax purposes is false. On the other hand, it's better than long term renting, for a number of reasons, which is why you often hear people who are not fully educated on the subject suggest that mortgage interest is good. Best bet is owning outright Next best bet is a low interest short-term mortgage After that it's long term and higher interest After that is renting At least in the long term
there are of course limits to what you say, for instance if you could rent for 100/month and you could buy for 10,000/month, (on a 30 yr term), then even if you lived/owned that property for 60 yrs, that is 10*12*30=3.6M. If you could rent the same place for 100/month, that is 100*12*60=72,000, which is much less.
free market economics work to even this out, but there ARE limits to the "renting is inherently bad" wisdom. say for instance if interest rates go back to 20%, (which is what I'd require to loan anything--I have no faith in the dollar), then you pay much more to borrow,. Now say you are in a "rent controlled" apt in NYC, your rent will not increase by 20%, so staying there till you could afford a cash offer on some place would not be a bad move.
Anyway, Yuhn is right, you want to own outright, but Just wanted to point out some limitations to his advice.
-Peter

[edkemper]

Another interesting issue.
How much did I loose owning my home over the last 3 years? - for me, $180,000.
How much did I loose on my apartment over the last 3 years? - for me, ZERO

[loghousenut]

Another interesting issue.
How much did I loose owning my home over the last 3 years? - for me, $180,000.
How much did I loose on my apartment over the last 3 years? - for me, ZERO


That scenario only works if you can pick your time period. If you'da chose the last 15 years as your example it woulda been a different outcome. I'd say you either bought or sold the house at an unlucky time. As for living in an apartment... I had to do it for a year or two once and I have to say I'd rather live in a school bus or ugly trailer.