solar/water generator?

[mytibuni]

hello all. i am new to this site, so please make me aware of protocal breaches. many conttibutors appear to be in alaska/NW usa/territories? i am in sunny florida (LOL). but in the back woods sections along the nature coast [west-central fla].

at any rate, i invited myself into your club to ask re: possibility of solar water/steam heated electrical generators. we have lots of sun, of course, and an oblivious spot for a PV solar array; however, the costs associated are HIGH, to say the least, and i wonder whether an un-explored area of power geration might be useful.

a gentleman named rick posted re: his high pressure solar h2o heater[BOMB]........maybe steam via a nozzle(s) might make the electrical generation capacity rise? seems too good to waste on simple showers, although i think "hot showers" are one of the finest conveniences provided by 'modern' society (any of you backwoods hunters may agree w/ me, esp after a 7-10 days in the bush).

thanks for allowing me, eric

[rreidnauer]

Welcome aboard Eric.

While converting solar energy, to thermal, to mechanical, to electrical is not a very efficient way to go, if the system doesn't cost you much to build and nothing to run, who cares! Batch heating for steam would be a terribly poor way to go though, as too much time would be wasted bringing sufficient amounts of water up to production temperatures for sustainable steam production. A small, point of use system may be a better option. The use of a parabolic concave mirror (a big C-band satellite dish perhaps?) or trough would be ideal. The tricky part is keeping the steam heated to maintain pressure. The electrical generation portion should probably be a turbine, since it would require the least amount of maintenance, and take advantage of RPM's over torque. Coupled to an appropriately sized permanent magnet motor conversion generator, it should function pretty well.

If it were me, I'd build a sun-tracking parabolic trough with a length of gas pipe running down it's length, directly in the focal point. Directly at the end of the pipe, I'd have a restrictor/orifice/nozzle and turbine connected up. At the other end, I'd have a water feed line and a high pressure injector pump. Then you'd just have to find a way to regulate the injector pump to provide enough water to maintain the best steam pressure possible.

I've never done the numbers on calculating solar insolation, BTU's, steam volume, Kwh, but it seems feasible to get something out of it to work.

[ChainsawGrandpa]

I have a video (for sale too!) on small scale steam - electric generators.
Big, complex, a lot of work, and you are always baby sitting the system.
The steam generator/condenser has 100% blow-down on a closed loop
system. A terrific headache to build right. A little 3Kwh steam generator
is a big affair!

For pennies on the dollar you can get a Honda EU1000, several Trojan
T-105 batteries, and a 2 Kwh inverter. Size your new place to use less
power than a conventional house (easy to do if you do it to a new house)
but don't live with so little power that it crimps your lifestyle.

I have designed a solar clothes dryer, solar food dryer, solar water (batch)
heater, and solar oven. These can go a long ways in reducing your need
for gas or electricity. My guest house could have all the electric needs met
by running the Honda for about 365 hours/year. I could even get a couple
of 45 watt solar panels (Harbor Freight) and further reduce my need for
gasoline. The little Honda may never even need to be started from May -
September.

And now for some really good news!

Y'know those Nmh batteries in a Prius? Well, as it turns out they are great
batteries, and they last forever IF they are maintained AND used properly.
Looks like I may be getting several cells, and of course at my favorite price.
I drove the Prius the other day. Always looked down my nose at them (Hey,
who wants to drive a car that sounds like a part of the anatomy?) but they
have a lot of torque, and the computer is the only thing keeping the tires
from spinning and the axel from twisting. I was goin' up Pine Canyon Hill
("passin' cars like they was standin' still") when all of a sudden in a blink of
an eye a Toyota Prius passed me by. Pine Canyon is a 6% grade, and the
locals have water stops along the way for cars that are over heating. The
Prius blew by like I was standing still. Not buying a Prius, it was just part of
the Hybrid vehicle/ extrication class. In that class we also "blew-up a $7,000
Lexus seat (fired-off the side airbag). After the class the instructor asked
someone to "Toss the Lexus seat into the dumpster". Aaaagh! There are
homeless people out there who don't even have a car seat! I would have
used it in my VW diesel pickup if that seat wasn't bigger than my VW.

-Rick

[mytibuni]

rick---thanks for your thoughts. consider that, in florida, the biggest concern/drain electrically is COOLING. funny, huh? anyhoo, i was toyin around with the idea of using salvaged car A/C parts for a closed system steam genny. and, as you mentioned, an out of date, oversized satellite dish for a collector [considered using galvanized flashing to up the reflectivity of the parabolic dish, and figured the old mounting point for the receiver would be a great place to hang an accumulator off'n a GM a/c system]. any thoughts on what could be used for the turbine portion of the equation? initially, i had hoped to use a toyota water pump.........not enough volume to keep 'er goin.

BTW, the prius is really an amazing piece of work. i was lucky enough to be available for the initial training provided by the factory------funny enough, the ONE question they could not answer (after STRONG warnings re: the potential dangers of the 380 VDC battery/WELDER tee-hee) was mine....what about tow-truck drivers, fire-fighters, paramedics???????? "um, well.......they will have the info in time for the release of the product here in the states........." we have a lot of folks that drive into lakes and rivers here, ya know.....

anyway, the car has proven to be reliable, strong, and pretty safe. also, amazing "factory-style" fuel economy. my pop rented a 2008 for a trip to N.C., and got 55MPG+ at 80 MPH interstate speeds!!!!!!! good luck onsecuring the batteries, and BE CAREFUL!!!! as a side note, i have also had exposure/work on the honda hybrids---completely different animals, my personal opinion of them through the 2008 releases is "save your money".

finally, what are you folks in the great northwest doing as far as fuel efficiency for your cars???? i read that alaska has the highest $/GAL gas prices in the US. anyone had any sucess with the H2O-for-gas gimmics???? for anybody interested, use stainless steel fo4r anode/cathode, keep the amperage across them under 5 (so as not to boil the water---not good!), and keep the pressure/vacuum inside the H2 generator 0".......
i already melted a couple of PVC canisters in the learning process. does seem to help power and economy, but each vehicle responds differently. my thought thus far is that any little bit helps!

thanks again for havin' me, eric
that which does not kill me.....makes me stonger! (paraphrase F. Nietzche)

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Sunshine to Dollars is on sale (2 more days only?) at Knowledge
Publications. I plan to buy a copy. It details a 5000 btu cooling
system that runs on the cheap. Also, very cheap ice making
(much better than a ref'r).

Just had a recent water rescue. A Subaru, not a Prius, but
the Prius is safe for me to do my rescue work in the water.

I like Honda's but I have to agree on any Honda or Honda based
hybrid...save your money. Toyota based systems are pretty good,
and Toyota systems are...well, typical Toyota. Just incredible.

The 2010 Prius is supposed to get 75 - 80 mpg, and recharge over-
night for $2.50 for a 40 mile range. Let's see...drive to work, recharge,
drive home the next day X 9 = 360 miles...yep, as long as the car was
primarily used for commuting to work I should be able to have zero
fuel costs. Well...not zero, but MY costs would be zero. Thanks boss!

More good news. The hybrid instructor is one of us (I can support AND
take care of myself, and am prepared against high prices, shortages,
economic downturns, TEOTWAWKI, etc.). He took a liking to me since
we are of the same mindset (hey, he might be more overboard than we
are). He dropped by the other day to get feedback on his class. He
mentioned that I could have a cell or two for experiments. Good news
to get that confirmed.

As for fuel effecient vehicles....

I drive at VW diesel pickup. Here?s a photo.
http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll154/rbuchananlogman/

My best has been about 51.417 MPG. Fully (over) loaded with bricks,
and other supplies, about 38 mpg.

-Rick

[ChainsawGrandpa]

I know it's coming....

Nope, I can't get 51.417 MPG with the rack or tool boxes,
but they sure do increase the useability of the truck. The
rack is 13 1/2' long, and the stock tool boxes juuust fit
between the rack uprights.

Of couse, the truck has been highly modified to get that
kind of fuel economy, but the biggest gain is by keeping
my foot out of it.

-Rick

[mytibuni]

rick---care to elaborate on the "highly modified" comment re: your VW P/U?? heh, heh........ eric

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Nothing really too out of the ordinary.
The exhaust was opened-up. Much larger and free-er flowing than stock,
but after talking w/ a VW diesel guy I found out my exhaust is still 1" too
small in diameter. A larger exhaust will drop the EGT by a minimum of 200 F.

14" wheels, up from 13". Five speed. Turbocharger, 1.6L Jetta engine.
Supposed to get 43 MPG (EPA stated fuel rating, YMMV),
Probably averaging 46 1/2 MPG. Don't remember
if the photo shows the tool boxes. The truck is now very practical for me.

On a sadder note, the cost to drive the VW is getting closer to what it
originally cost to drive the big Vovlo 24' box truck. A few years ago the Volvo
was about $100 for a trip to go and build. The VW is now approaching $50 per trip.
True, the Volvo (then) costs twice as much in fuel as the VW, but it could hold tools,
materials, and supplies for ten days PLUS the VW!

Looks like there is more work that could be done
to the VW, but it means big dollars for small gains.

-Rick