Why is the price of solar panels going up instead of down!!!???

[The_Truth]

You know with all of the "Green" hype you think the prices would go down! I know not too long ago, Rod said that $4/watt was a good price but now everything I am seeing is now running about $6/watt. What gives? Also, I have been seeing some "bulk" discounts given if panels are bought by the "pallet" which come anywhere around 12+. I would consider going in halves or thirds on one of these if someone was interested (around $9k for pallet of 18 110w panels - I would only want 4-8 to start). Let me know.

What gives Rod et al?

[rreidnauer]

Actually, you answered your own question. It's the "green" hype. It's the next popular thing, everyone is jumping on the "save the earth" craze, and retailers are running the prices up knowing this is catching on.

Second reason. The plain old supply and demand thing, and supply isn't keeping pace with demand. You're right, you'd think as this technology ages, prices would start to fall. But the opposite has occurred. Not only that, even used panels are holding their values extremely well. I bought my panels used for $4/watt, and I bet I could actually resell them for a profit now. (not that I have any plans to)

Thank God I got mine when I did.

[Lady_Cabin_Woods]

Hi my question is two or three fold

Newbie but not new to life and ideas, always looking at designs, even *scary* eBay for Log Cabin kits WHICH thanks to this site, kissing kissing yr temples!, I will NOT buy, due to white pine and all that stuff abt being "more costly" than hand built. I learn quick.

SO, here's my enlightened new question: If I want solar gain, if I want alternative living w NO gas NO oil (living in CO and may be doing this in So CO or in no. NM where we do get lotsa sun days) and I want someone to build me a nice open concept log cabin with prerequisites: has to have vaulted ceiling and fireplace even if a wood stove is stuck in it, has to have a loft with 2 bdrms up, nice staircase. Front porch. Window wall facing south for solar gain, not a huge house BUT with vaulted ceiling and open downstairs one gets the feeling of space which I do love without all that excess sq footage. I am clear about my design needs and would be flexible to work w someone...around this idea. Would love to capture water from rain and snow since I would be in CO, at least, over 7300 ft and it does do both...

So given that and my petite frame bad back and no guy, WHO among all the kit folks OR among all the trusted log cabin builders would you kind folks recommend? Southern CO, No NM and not get gouged, I can not build myself but the spirit is willing, can help say, install radiant floor heating and do small odd jobs, , I would have clear ideas about electrical outlets and can get a LOT of recycled materials includ the appliances from Denver and Boulder resellers. I just don't KNOW log building and now am scared off buying even a reasonable kit. Should I just hire a good carpenter who understands solar and alternative living, and who had experience in good log building?

[Klapton]

You should take the LHBA class, even if you don't plan to do much of the actual labor yourself. You will learn all the important CONCEPTS of building a solid, low/no maintenance log home, which is what you need to know to make informed decisions.

One of the things you will learn, is that with a butt and pass log home, all the load of the roof is carried by the walls and your ridge pole support logs (RPSLs). So there are NO load-bearing walls inside the big box. So your floorplan can be pretty much anything you want. The vaulted-cieling Great Room you described is precisely the kind of thing they teach in the class.

The single greatest thing you will gain from taking the course is CONFIDENCE that you CAN do this. Even if you are not doing the heavy lifting yourself (I will be hiring out much of mine as well), you will know how it's supposed to be done, and can act as your own General Contractor. That way you get exactly what you want, done RIGHT, and save a bunch of money at the same time. (Obviously not as much as if you did everything yourself, but still save a bunch compared to just buying a house, or hiring a kit-builder to build you something that isn't even near as cool as what you will build yourself anyway!)

[Lady_Cabin_Woods]

Well, I will. When they offer another one...thanks and that wide open box with no obvious load bearing walls thing is a real "clincherr" for me. I have you folks bookmarked, look for another class after Feb 2008, thanks again.

[Klapton]

There's a linkie now where you can sign up to be notified of new classes. In fact, I'll save you the trouble and put it here!

http://www.loghomebuilders.org/alert

[huffjohndeb]

I'm not sure if your interested in a log home that is already built in the LHBA style, but there is a very nice couple in Pine colorado that is trying to sell their home in Bailey, CO.

Here is a link to their website. www.coloradologcabin.com

Oh by the way do you live in Boulder? In my humble opinion, Boulder is to the old west as EXXON is to the environment. If I lived in Boulder I would try my best to escape from Boulder. They come to Boulder from California seeking to get away from government over regulation and then implement even more governmental regulation upon themselves and every one else.

Such as In the state of California this warning label is required FOR USERS IN CALIFORNIA:

WARNING: The power cord on this product contains lead, a chemical known to the State of California to cause cancer, and birth defects or other reproductive harm. Wash hands after handling.

[BURNIN]

Hi everyone! I have spent two years reading the posts on here and feel as if I am part of the 'family' even tho' I havent responded to any posts.
I will begin building my loghome this spring. No, I havent taken skips course (Wish I could have) but thru the many students of Skip who have given many details on the internet on how they are-or are doing the butt and pass method of log home buliding, I am ready!

I wouldnt suggest anyone to start as I have. But fortunately I am very good at understanding and "seeing" simple concepts of construction. I am a "been there done that" kind of guy. My hands as a 'jack of all trades' learn quickly even tho I stink at simple arithmetics.

My study of Skip is simple. He gives you the key of freedom that you should know as an American-but has been lost by the many over time. I crave freedom--and freedom is Skips simple concept of truth...

Lady-Cabin-Woods must be near me. I live in the four corners (Waterflow NM) and I would be very humbled to show her the spirit of what America is supposedto be about. Can I help her? Thats what being a true American is about.....

I will be posting pictures soon. I hope to show that Skip's method is the TRUE spirit of what the American people and Constitution is realy about...

Kevin

[The_Truth]

Lady_Cabin_Woods,
I think you should go ahead and take the class. The things learned in class help you through the whole building process. Also, the value in the class is the LIFETIME support from Ellsworth, Steve, and ALL of the others who have taken the class, built homes, or in the process of building. This is where you will not find the answers to general questions, but to specific ones about anything. Everyone in the Memebers Section (you get access after taking the class) is more than willing to help either with knowledge or with their hands. I also will be building in Colorado and go there as often as I can from Texas but will be there fulltime in the next year (or sooner if I quit my job soon!!). It is great that Burnin is willing to help, and yes it is the spirit of freedom that Skip talked about, but when you take the class you would have that much more support tenfold. If you are not as good at getting some general information (like me) and not built very many things before (like me) then you will get your money's worth out of taking the class, and as the others have said, the confidence to know you can do it yourself (even if you don't do the actual lifting/building). You could actually have friends/family/hired help and you can tell them what to do to build it.

Burnin,
I am glad you have been faithful to getting info from this forum for 2 years and I wish you well on your log home building!!! And you are right about the "spirit" that is taught by Skip, Ellsworth, and Steve. I believe it changed me, but especially after taking the class and talking to them personally. Their method is "simple" but there are some specific points to building their way that (me personally but maybe not you) if you miss them, your home might not be as solid as it could be. I wish I had your experiences in life (my dad is a computer programmer and sat around alot and I have not faired too much better on the mechanical skills) because maybe I would have gotten more out of the class. I was in class with some experienced builders and although they didn't get as much out of it as I did (some of the simpler construction stuff), I don't believe not one of them left without some knowledge about building this type of log home that they didn't/wouldn't have had before. Again, I hope all goes well for you and your log home. And from the sounds of your comments, you should make a good solid one!!!

P.S. Burnin keep on posting!!! Sounds like you have some good knowledge that would prove valuable to all here on this site!!

[Lady_Cabin_Woods]

Hello Burnin, hello Huff, well it's a pleasure and just to allay fears of my ruin: I am not in Boulder, so someone can now relax but in (eeks! the truth) DENVER with ridiculous building restrictions. I do have 2 tall pines and a nice garage with heat, hard to garden is my complaint with the pine needles droppin and blowin all over ruining the soil. And not to mention those silly restrictions no building over 10 x 10 x 8 which put a damper on my spa and workout "room" since my house inside presently is teensy tweensy small. We have the Fire Dept a necessary thing and their easements and setbacks from the alley, ok enough? That's why most leave life in "the city" despite it's allure, culture, amenities, diversity, FOOD! By the time we do get disgusted enough, we are steely enough (again) to move back to the land, to give up a lot of that access and those amenities and fun things just to breathe in clean air and not worry about "who shot up the light pole" the night before or which neighbors got raided by the police, etc. Who opened our gate (my blase postman) and let our dog out to roam the streets...my pet peeve, no pun intended. Oh we have our problems when we live and move and "be" ourselves in existence with others trying to do the same. Some of us learn temperance and patience, others learn to like it less and less, then do the big bold move. Hopefully, those who decided that humanity is "too much" to deal with, can deal, when alone, with themselves...Amen.

It's so nice to read what you all think. And to have yes, the opportunity to pick people's brains, I am still torn over the straw bale house and the log cabin, SO that will def have its play in my mind. A nice dilemna to have, when the rest of the world is trying to find clean water to drink etc. Glad to have this forum, we have choices and we should exhange ideas, we have this newfound encyclopedic opportunity (don't need the library downtown now, do we?) in the world wide web. We don't have to leave our cabin and our jammies now to talk to anymore about anything. I do love that, don't you?.

[Lady_Cabin_Woods]

Klapton and others:

Thanks for the good info, appreciate it. Since yesterday, I have done some more research and awoke today to a call from a nice fellow who does build non kit log homes, I had found him on Craigslist mos ago and had just rebased with him last week; he will be quoting me a price for a 2 bdrm with lg greatroom and porch, lv area w fieldstone wall OR stone fireplace. He installs pellet stoves, I may just do an efficient wood stove OR the Russian type ceramic, we'll see. Whatever falls into place at the right time...

The idea as I said to have that open space for feeling the space, open to kitchen dining and fireplace, seating, windows to south, but all the other rooms do not have to be big, just have that open area so you feel spaciousness. (presently cramped, sm bungalow). So, he is using good materials- lodge pole pine, real strong and straight, any qualms so far (no white pine)- and can do the butt and pass method, says he today. Non kit man.

It will be about a 30 x 30 with loft and cathedral ceiling. Over 30 x 30 he has more to haul (again not a kit but he has his own mill to process logs, etc) and over 30 x 30, due to support, etc it will be a different configuration, does that make sense? I am at yr mercy, or his, lol.

Oh lord, Now up to me. Here's me on the land (for your enjoyment only!) a little levity. Life in the sticks...

"Coyote, meet my 85 lb lab. No, he is NOT dinner...neither are these cats. Good boy, you get it. Please tell all your wild little friends, we come in peace. Thank you, bless you. It's an honor to be here, really.... Treats?, oh god he's begging like a Wash Park squirrel, yikes....where am I? Oh boy, here we go....his friends are lining up, see them in the trees, I think they see a soft touch here, close the curtains. They seem to be laughing at us. We need to keep the chickens in the house with us, no I am NOT crazy, bring in piglet right now! Are these doors bear proof honey, I mean, REALLY really bearproof? I dunno, they do look kinda, well...slim?

Wow. Do I love the country or what; Say, when ARE we going in to town next....I need to talk to some.... Well, honey someone other than you, sorry! Of course, you count. I mean, when you DO actually speak, that is. And not mumble. Ok I am just kidding....Honey, honey, come back here. Hell, he knows I hate it when he mumbles....Come on, don't take the truck now, HONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Klapton]

The idea as I said to have that open space for feeling the space, open to kitchen dining and fireplace, seating, windows to south, but all the other rooms do not have to be big, just have that open area so you feel spaciousness. (presently cramped, sm bungalow). So, he is using good materials- lodge pole pine, real strong and straight, any qualms so far (no white pine)- and can do the butt and pass method, says he today. Non kit man.

It will be about a 30 x 30 with loft and cathedral ceiling. Over 30 x 30 he has more to haul (again not a kit but he has his own mill to process logs, etc) and over 30 x 30, due to support, etc it will be a different configuration, does that make sense? I am at yr mercy, or his, lol.

Ask him if he will hand-peel them instead of milling them. When you cut into the grain of the log in any way, you invite moisture and rot.

With a true butt and pass home, like what they teach here, there is very little difference in the way the load bearing works. LHBA has stock plans in 30 x 30, 35 x 35, and 40 x 40, and there is almost no difference at all in the actual load-bearing structure. He is right about hauling though. Logs over 42 feet long cost more to haul because of permits (and generally you are paying for more tree as well.)

Does this guy have a website? Do you have any photos of his previous work?

If he mills his logs, and does flat wood against flat wood (no spacing between logs and chinking), then he might as well be a kit guy, even if he mills his own logs. "Butt and Pass" btw, is simply a way of doing corners. Lots of kit homes with milled logs are "butt and pass", but they are not the real deal.

You might mention the name "Skip Ellsworth" and watch his reaction. If he knows who Skip is or LHBA, then he should know what you mean if you tell him you want a "Skip style" butt and pass home.