Masonry heaters

[Hooboy]

I've been doing some research into masonry heaters, and I'm getting very convinced they are the way to go regarding a wood fueled heating system for a nominally sized home. The advantages, as I see them, are these:

[list]Virtually complete combustion of wood fuels. This is virtually unheard of by any other wood heater, except the forced air wood pellet system. All other stoves and wood furnaces are no more than 60% efficient in burning fuel, (and most are far below this.)

Heat is delivered gradually, rather than suddenly, (which is typical of metal stoves.) More radiant heating is more comfortable than heated air, and is self regulating. Air temperature can be cooler while the body is comfortably warmed by the radiant heat coming from the mass of masonry.

The heater is far more durable than cast iron or steel stoves, and is a major design focus in the house. It can serve as a room divider, while providing heat for the whole house.

Additional bake ovens can be incorporated, providing free cooking heat and excellent baked goods, (which cannot be duplicated with an iron or steel stove.) A stove cooktop is a further option.

[/list:u]

There are more reasons to like them, as they have been used in Europe for centuries, and even today in countries like Sweden, (no stranger to cold weather,) they're used in almost 90% of new homes. Their complete burn is not only efficient, its very clean and non-polluting as well. Extremely little creosote buildup is generated, and can mostly be brushed off of the main combustion chamber without needing a chimney sweep.

The disadvantages are a significantly increased initial expense. But I just see this as the price of admission for a better heating system. It eventually pays for itself with lower yearly fuel costs, while being a great and comfortable heating system in the first place.

There are a couple of very good sites for these heaters I've found:

http://mha-net.org/
http://www.tempcast.com/
http://www.rumford.com/heater.html

Anyone with any practical experience with these heaters is encouraged to post their impressions. I'm personally very eager to incorporate one into any house I might construct.

[KateHunter]

I'm also extremely interested in masonry heaters, and plan to eventually build a log home with a masonry heater as the primary heating system.

Another organization to look at for these heaters is Maine Wood Heat. Apparently some of the folks there know a few of the Log Home Builders crew. You can find their website at:

http://mainewoodheat.com/

I'd be very pleased to hear from anyone who has worked with Maine Wood Heat, or who has incorporated one of these heaters into the design of a butt and pass log home.


-Kate

[hawkiye]

I am planning to build a masonry heater in my log home as the main source of heat. I have bought the plans from Maine Wood Heat for a Finish style contra flow heater. I also have Thomas Epel???s book Living Homes and he has plans in there for a heater he built.

I have never built a heater but am a 3rd generation mason so I am going to do it myself. Also Thomas Epel has proven people with little or no masonry experience can do it if they are determined and put in the time and research and pay attention to detail.

If you do decide to try it yourself and have no masonry experience I recommend you get a book and at least do some small masonry projects first with bricks and get a feel for leveling brick and keeping corners plumb etc. Some planters or veneer would be good first projects. I am working on a book and video for home and backyard masonry but it won't be ready for a while.

I am most likely going to build a modified version of the Main Wood Heat Contra flow heater I have plans for.

I would recommend if anyone is going to build a log home as there permanent home they should seriously consider a masonry heater. They do make kits with cast cores so you can't screw up the flu systems but they are expensive but still not as much as hiring it all out.

I read somewhere masonry heaters put out fewer emissions then a gas furnace.

Blayne

[dsexplores]

I was also interested in building a masonry heater for it's efficiency.
One negative that I did hear is that you build one or two good fires a day, and burn them quickly. The flu is constructed in such a way that you have to have a fast fire and not a smoldering fire.
The concern was that this would NOT be a fireplace that you would just light and leave for atmosphere or guests or just the pleasure of looking at and leaving going all day. It must get burning at a good rate, and then you shut the flu.
Can anybody support those comments?

[hawkiye]

Yes and no. It depends on what kind of heater you build. The Finnish style heaters can be used as a regular fireplace by adding a bypass dampener that bypasses the heating flues and you open the front doors. But then you're sending your heat in the house up the flue and out.

It also depends on how much square footage you want to heat with it. So yes originally they were not designed to look at the fire but to heat efficiently. They use a fraction of the wood a conventional fireplace or woodstove does, that is not a negative but a positive for those who heat with wood.

A twenty or thirty minute fire can heat the house all day as all the heat is not going up the chimney like a conventional fireplace. Yes it has to be a hot fire. Once the fire is down to coals and all the hot gasses are gone a dampener is closed on Finnish and Swedish style heaters. German and Russian style heaters never close the dampener all the way.

If you just want a fire to look at then build a conventional fireplace or get a woodstove with a glass window. Or a Rumford style fireplace is better then conventional. Conventional fireplaces send 90% of the heat up the chimney. Masonry heaters achieve 80-90 percent or better efficiency.

I would suggest going to the links listed in this thread and do some research to decide what you need and want.

Blayne

[luthgarden]

Hooboy:

I remember reading an article a few years back on masonry heaters. If you have your own supply of logs, it would seem like a good investment. I like the idea of no emissions. The only real disadvantages are the up-front costs and need for a foundation to support it. But, considering how much I have paid out this year in heating costs, freeing yourself from that obligation would be well worth it. I always felt that a fireplace was such a waste of space. I hardly ever use the one in my house, yet it takes up an entire wall of my family room. After a fire, you cannot close the flue until the embers have cooled, so all of your home's heat gets sucked up chimney during that time. A centrally located masonry heater is a MUCH wiser investment.

Luthgarden

[hawkiye]

Luthgarden,

You hit the nail on the head, lots of people shy away from masonry heaters because of the initial cost or learning curve. But in the long run they will be saving money.

These fit right into Skips philosophy he imparts about building log homes and not having a mortgage. Why pay a monthly heating bill when you can heat cleaner and more efficiently with wood which is a renewable energy using a masonry heater.

Blayne

[Fred]

Of course, you could put in the foundation and retro-build later, spare yourself the $$$ up front, and spread the capital investment, but it's a messy job doing large masonry indoors, and there are seismic issues too.

Also, you'll need a back up heater to keep your place from freezing solid if you are away a couple of days. Log houses take a while to warm once they've cooled down.

[hawkiye]

Of course back up heat is a given if your going to be away in the winter. A good southerly window that lets the sun shine on the MH can also heat the masonry and give you heat while away, or a large or full side southerly window on an enclosed porch like in a earth ship can keep the place from freeazing while away.

But it might be easier and cheaper just to have a propane wall heater on a thermostate like Skips place for back up.

Blayne

[stubborndad]

We had a "moniter"(like skip's) heater as a back up for my woodstove in a home that we lived in. The moniter heater was used primarily for when the woodstove was not being used, such as when you were gone for extended periods of time or even if you didn't stoke the woodstove before bed it may kick on. We would generally set it for about 60 degrees give / take some according to the situation. The monitor was a kerosene one and we filled the tank in summer when the price was low and didn't need to fill untill the next year. (We lived at about 4000 ft elev. with several feet of snow each year) We want to go with a masonary heater in the log home we will build. They are costly, so if we are not at the place($) to build one when when we are building our log home, We will put the foundation and necessary floor framework under the floor to be able to build one later. That should not cost too much. We love heating with wood, I have a part time hobby with a friend re-building woodstoves/ wood cookstoves that may soon become full time. A possible solution to the wastefull fireplace in a good stove insert, they kick out alot of heat! Steve L.

[bnlitton]

I know this is quite an old post .. but I'm writing this in the hopes that someone will look back on it and maybe see my question. Would it be possible to incorporate a 'water heater'(a water tank) into a masonry heater? Any thoughts our suggestions on this?

Brandt Litton

[gregorama]

Yes, I have seen them designed and used on the web; sorry, I can't remember where; it's been over a year since I found it. Stainless steel coils, thermosyphon into a tank, then a heat exchanger inside to head DHW and/or water for radiant heat. It wasn't too hard to find, as I recall..

greg

[bnlitton]

Thanks! Awesome! I'll do some searching on that. If anybody has any other ideas or leads on this, input is sure welcome! Thx Greg!

Brandt

[Klip]

I've been interested in heaters for about 10 years now. I built one in my home last winter and am absolutely enjoying it this year. I used a design mentioned in the old posts above, from Maine Wood Heat for a Finnish contraflow design.

My only regret is I did not incorporate domestic hot water. It can be done very simply. My natural gas bill has dropped at least 66% this year and I think with free hot water I'd be paying even less.

Masonry heater expert Norbert Senf has the best info on this and almost anything else heater related.

Try- http://mha-net.org/msb/html/hotwater.htm

The most simple plan uses a basic principle of phyics called a "
thermosyphon". It uses a simple 1/2" stainless steel "U" in the rear of the firebox. The water in the loop is heated and rises exactly as hot air rises (fluid dynamics). If you can place a storage tank above the heater, no pumps or pressure is needed. The temperature difference alone cycles the warm water up into the storage tank. This storage tank preheats your hot water before any other appliance. It's a very simple and elegant solution. No pumps or power needed.

Maine Wood Heat also sells a more radiator type heat exchanger for hot water that works on the same principles.

Of course, you can also use pumps to push the water through the heater if the storage tank is not above the heater. This requires careful design of the pump system. During a heater burn, water MUST run through the coil exchanger. If the water doesn't circulate through the coil, it will turn overheat to steam and expand causing a dangerous result. So pump systems may need a battery backup so you can burn during a power outage.

I talked with the MHA president Jerry Frisch about DHW. He is a real believer. He lives in Washington state and said he provides 100% of his DHW as he heats his house with one of his custom built heaters. he mentioned a story to me where his hot water heater's pilot light was out all winter and he didn't notice until the spring when he stopped buring his heater.

[bnlitton]

Great info!
I have another question for you.
We may be looking to build in an area of the city where they don't allow you to burn in fireplaces... yeah, I know ... It's not where I'd normally build, either. But, because of the incredible deal on the lot and the great resellable/desireable area, we are considering it. I still like the idea of the masonry heaters, though.
Would it be possible to make a 'masonry propane heater'? or something other than wood? Would it even be worth it? Could you heat up the mass of the heater with another heat source other than wood? - without getting too expensive.. I've just only seen wood-fired masonry heaters...
Thanks for your help guys! (-still no decisions made ... just wanting to learn and collect info!-) :)

Brandt

[rreidnauer]

That actually sounds like a very interesting twist on this type of heater. If you can match the BTU's to a load of wood, I see no reason why it's wouldn't work. Automatic and clean operation to boot.

[Klip]

I have not seen any gas-burning masonry heaters, personally. I know Tulikivi has an electric backup, with long resistor coils running inside the contraflow channels.

I also would suggest checking into the local building code. The Masonry Heater Assoc. formed with a primary goal of dealing with regulation issues. I know they have successfully incorporated masonry heaters into many wood-fire pollution control schemes.

The EPA currently recognizes masonry heaters as inherently clean burning (when designed, built and used correctly). Heaters are not required to be EPA certified.

Colorado, Washington, and Utah have recognized heaters as a clean burning device and exempted heaters from wood burning bans.
http://www.rmhpba.org/rocky_mountain_region_winter_bur.htm

I believe all wood burning appliances are unfortunately currently banned in San Francisco. That's the only US spot I know currently.

Not trying to discourage you from looking into alternative fuels for heaters, just hopeful that local authorities haven't made an uninformed decision. You may be able to find more information for your new urban home location burning regulations talking to the local building inspector.

Klip

[clairenj]

Is anyone on the forum now who can give me a pointer about a propane gas boiler not firing? We just got here to the house and the neighbor called and said she smelled propane. I now smell it slightly inside so we hit the kill switch, My plumber who installed it is not answering, the gas company has no emergency nightime # go figure and I don't want to call the firedepartment just yet. It is 11 pm EST. thanks anyone?

[gregorama]

call 911 and tell them you smell gas; the gas company WILL come out.

[dbtoo]

Is anyone on the forum now who can give me a pointer about a propane gas boiler not firing?

Clairenj - what was wrong with your propane boiler?
I have problems with a servel refrigerator not burning properly, and my propane heater will occasionally blow out when there are very high winds. (Does the nj stand for New Joisy?)

[clairenj]

We were (allegedly) on an automatic delivery for propane. Somehow, the supplier thought we went to another company so did not deliver. We were on fumes. Obviosly, DUH, I need to look at the tank once in a while. Now the way it was explained to me goes like this; the direct vent unit we have comes with or without an off switch for the blower motor. In the event you get down into the "mix" which is basically fumes and the additive, and the boiler won't fire, the mix should be blown back out. That explains why my neighbors all freaked from the smell. OUr's did not turn off, however so we had to kill all power and the valves because I did not know what the heck was going on. Sooner than later that motor would have died ($$$) luckily we had no frozen pipes. The company magnanimously offered us a $25 rebate for our trouble. The delivery guy ( who put $1400 of propane back into the tank) told us we should have gone with oil. And then he told us not to pay for this delivery! only in "New Joisy"......... Thankyou to all members who responded to me that night.

[Arciform]

we use rumford designs in our historic homes. They are not the drafty-wow it's cold in here when the fire is going style fire box. Look for it on our website www.1909house.com Our mason is Portland Chimney. Portland, Oregon.

[Cheam]

has anyone heard of attaching an active solar system to the thermal mass of a wood fiered masonary heater. active water probably won't work due to the dangers of steam when you have a wood fire burning, but an air sysem might. The mass of the stove just seems like a tempting storage spot for solar heat.

[rreidnauer]

After reading an article (http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/lee90.html) from Backwoods Home Magazine, I had a spark of imagination to build an inexpensive wood-fired, thermal mass heater. They described using a 55 gallon drum or a heating oil tank as the combustion chamber and surround it with brick/block/rock to absorb the heat. My idea takes things a step further.

The dimensions of a 55 gallon drum and a 275 gallon heating oil tank work out really well for combining the two. My idea involves cutting a hole in the end of the tank, near the bottom, the diameter of the drum. With the hole opened up, you can plumb some smokepipe that would depart the drum at the back, about a 1/3 of the way down. There would be room in the tank for the smokepipe to come up and across the top of the drum, and exit the tank near the front. A grate would be added to the bottom of the drum, and a loading door and damper added to the front of the whole thing. It would look something like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/titantornado/homebrewheater.jpg

Now, here's the neat part. Once it's all welded up and positioned in place, start adding in dry sand through the old pipe ports on top of the tank until it's filled up solid. This would make for a significant amount of thermal mass. You could fill it with concrete too, but if you ever had to move it later, you'll wish you didn't. And, if you don't like the thought of an oil tank sitting in your living room, you can still enclose it in brick or stone, further adding to it's thermal mass.

Seems like a pretty frugal way to build an efficient heater, as barrels and tanks are pretty easy to come by. (at least around my parts) If you can weld, you're really ahead of the game. (I can, yippee!)

[kyle]

Ingenious Rod. I love it. But do you think it might need some sort of air inflow? Seems like it might burn itself out because of lack of Oxygen. Or were you thinking of it with an open front?

[rreidnauer]

Yea, I would add a damper/cleanout on the front that enters below the grate. Picture revised to include that detail.

[Squirt_TN]

Do you think that over some time the 55 gal. drum inside the fuel tank would corrode from the sand coming in contact with the outside skin? My only observation on this system is how would you go about repairing/replacing if the 55 or 275 would rust. I guess that if the 275 would rust there would be no harm, no foul due to the surrounding stone/block/or brick to hold the sand. you would never be aware of it. But the 55 would worry me. Do they make a stainless steel 55 ???

[rreidnauer]

Yea, it's quite possible for it to rust out eventually. Though, corrosion needs moisture, and if you loaded it with dry sand to start with, and subsequent heatings to well over boiling temperatures, it's going to stay dry. If you'd be really worried, just heat it up good and hot, and plugged the bungs in the top once any noticable steam has vented off.

I'd say there's a better chance of rusting from within the combustion chamber during the off season. That can be controlled with a can of Pam cooking spray at the end of the heating season. Burning good seasoned wood and NOT burning trash in it will extend it's life as well. The heaviest 55 gallon drum I know of is only 16 gauge steel. Oil tanks are usually 12 and 10 gauge steel, and will easily out survive a 16 gauge combustion chamber.

They do, in fact, make stainless steel drums, though they cost 10 times that of a steel one. And, I can't weld stainless.

Besides, If it does rust through, it doesn't cost me much. (except labor) I figure I can make one from a salvaged drum and tank. I figure the most expensive parts would be the stovepipe and loading door. Total cost? Maybe $200. With some care, there's no reason you can't get years of reliable service from one before failing.

[StressMan79]

rreidnauer's idea for thermal mass using a two tanked system is a good one... However, in WA state (and in the US in general) they have some laws that make it very hard to build your own anything... http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hohmade.htm

However, I am planning on making a similar design anyway using some basic thermodynamics, possibly an O2 sensor and a couple of thermocouples hooked up to my laptop through telephone (maybe CAT-5) wire. The sensors will run a feedback loop that will automatically open and close the dampers based on several things (the desired temp in the house, the rate of change of temp in the house, the temp of the sand in the outer tank, etc).

Ok, so maybe I'm getting ahead of myself... all of these sensors. Can anyone think of a simple way of regulating the O2 input automatically without
1) manual adjustment
2) electronics that have a tendency to break?

If I can't do it the simple way, I'll just do it with redundant electronics.

In short, I am convinced that thermal mass is the way to go. Further, with secondary firing, this stove can be extremely efficient and long burning. I am willing to make provisions in my home for it, and build it later (albeit probably with a smaller firebox--55gal would heat a small commune--especially in WA), and take my risks with the man.

[StressMan79]

by the way, has anyone ever done any steam cogeneration with something like this? I asked the folks at seton about it, they say it will only make power when you have a heat demand--i.e. winter. I think you could make power even when you don't have a heat demand with this kind of system.

You would just put the water coils around the firebox and run them to a steam engine... running a generator. If your firebox puts out 50kBTU/hr, that corresponds to 14.6kW, or 19.6hp. You couldn't get all of this in the form of electricity, but say 25% overall efficiency wouldn't be unreasonable.

3.6 kW might be OK run a very hot fire a couple times/week and you can charge your batteries for the rest of the time--or to run high load implements like power tools for short periods of time. Due to the huge thermal mass, the heat would't dissipate immediately, and your house wouldn't get too hot. However, I would recommend a nice upflow to a large opening skylight for summer use.

Anyway, this would work best in the winter, as you could run it all the time (or whenever you needed power) alongside your heat needs...good for when the skies get dark and the solar isn't putting out much.

[rreidnauer]

rreidnauer's idea for thermal mass using a two tanked system is a good one... However, in WA state (and in the US in general) they have some laws that make it very hard to build your own anything... http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hohmade.htm

However, I am planning on making a similar design anyway using some basic thermodynamics, possibly an O2 sensor and a couple of thermocouples hooked up to my laptop through telephone (maybe CAT-5) wire. The sensors will run a feedback loop that will automatically open and close the dampers based on several things (the desired temp in the house, the rate of change of temp in the house, the temp of the sand in the outer tank, etc).

Ok, so maybe I'm getting ahead of myself... all of these sensors. Can anyone think of a simple way of regulating the O2 input automatically without
1) manual adjustment
2) electronics that have a tendency to break?

If I can't do it the simple way, I'll just do it with redundant electronics.

In short, I am convinced that thermal mass is the way to go. Further, with secondary firing, this stove can be extremely efficient and long burning. I am willing to make provisions in my home for it, and build it later (albeit probably with a smaller firebox--55gal would heat a small commune--especially in WA), and take my risks with the man.

Good point, and you're quite right. But I wouldn't be too concerned about 'the man' coming in my house to see my homebuilt heater. Though, it could cause a claim on your homeowner's insurance to be denied, should you ever have to make a claim related to a fire incident. I think government regulation seems to concentrate more on exhaust emmisions and spark arresting equipment, rather than the the heater itself, but I've been known to be wrong. :wink:

As for all the automation equipment, you're delving into the world of electronics, and for me, it's a bit of a dark, unexplored land. Simpler terms could be done, like common bimetal thermal snap switches or a simple wall thermostat for temperature control. The commercial wood boiler makers already have automated damper controls. Take a look at their designs.

But, I never intended on such controls, as they are not needed. Just like a masonry heater, it is designed for a fast, hot burn. And then coast on it's thermal mass over the next 12 hours or so. A slow burn is inefficient and unnecessary, since it's the job of the thermal mass to regulate the release of heat. It's also the reason for a sizable firebox, though a smaller barrel, like a 30 gallon one, can be substituted. (and increase the thermal mass with an additional 25 gallons of sand) I've been thinking a 30 might be better. The dampers are really only there for after the burn, to prevent a convective draft of the chimney wasting heat.

I did think about a adding a coil of tubing in the sand, not so much for steam, but hot water. If I had a spell of sunless days where my solar hot water system doesn't contribute, it'd be nice to have a backup option.

[rreidnauer]

Do you think that over some time the 55 gal. drum inside the fuel tank would corrode from the sand coming in contact with the outside skin? My only observation on this system is how would you go about repairing/replacing if the 55 or 275 would rust. I guess that if the 275 would rust there would be no harm, no foul due to the surrounding stone/block/or brick to hold the sand. you would never be aware of it. But the 55 would worry me. Do they make a stainless steel 55 ???

It just hit me, though smaller than a 55 gallon drum, an old stainless beer keg could make for a decent, cheap, heavy-walled fire box.

Wonder if a place like a dairy farm would have any scrap stainless tanks or drums. Hmmmmmmm

[greenthumb]

Here in GA we have a publication put out by the state dept. of Agriculture called the 'Market Bulletin'. It has advertisements from farm folks for various useful things. Every issue has folks with plastic and steel used barrels for sale. Some of them have stainless as well. I'm not sure how thick they are, but its a start. IIRC, a lady I bought some plastic barrels from had quite a few stainless ones, and they were only used once due to some food grade regulation?

[stubborndad]

I was thinking about using a stainless steel container that is used to keep milk cold, for a home made hot tub. They have a sort of radiator type of inside that moves liquid around the sides of the container. It may be possible to pipe in the hot water from my big wood burning stove which already has the connections for water. (convection?) Maybe a few pressure release valves etc. It would be pretty cool sitting in one of those big tanks in winter using just wood heat, which was heating my shop already. I see those tanks outside one dairy or another just sitting there for years.

[Kennit]

Your 55 gallon drum wouldn't rust from the sand. Like you said, having a fire in the drum would dry out the sand and keep it dry. Dry sand won't rust steel very quickly. The fire on the inside of the drum is another story.

Water vapor is a product of combustion. No matter what kind of fuel you are burning, water vapor will be part of the "smoke". Dry wood will have less than wet or "green" wood, but even burning coal, oil, gasoline or propane will still give off water vapor. (When I say burning gasoline, I mean in a combustion engine. Don't try burning gasoline, it doesn't work well and it seems to take forever for the hair to grow back on your arm.) Combine that with the heat from the fire to burn off the protective coating on the steel and you will have rust quicker than you think.

On the positive side, I know loggers and mechanics in the area that have had barrel stoves in thier shops for years. Yes they are rusty, but they don't rust completely through for a long time. And I know one shop that burned hot fires. They had a small resevoir for used motor oil and a 1/4" pipe that ran to the fire drum. The pet cock would be opened after the fire was hot enough and it would increase the intesity of the fire. A couple of times someone forget to shut off the pet cock and the barrels got red hot! But they stayed intact.

Having the drum surrounded in sand would transfer the heat by conduction and pretty much work the same as a masonry heater (in theory). I am anxious to hear how well it works in real life. I am guessing that the worst case scenario the drum would have to be replaced every 5 or 10 years (depending on use). It might be possible that the drum could last for as long as 20 years or more, but that's just my own opinion.

Good luck, and keep us informed.

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Hey Rod,

My neighbor just removed the expensive wood stove from his garage
and installed a cheap ($100!!) beer keg wood stove. Since I had
experience with the old double 55 gallon drum stoves I just rolled my
eyes. That thing works great! The price was right, no fabrication was
needed on his part, and the garage is finally warm...if fact, almost
hot when the temperature outside was in the teens. It does smoke
a bit, but the thing does work well, and the fuel burn is low.

-Rick

[rreidnauer]

Wow! Is he doing that with the benefit of a heatsink, like a sand jacket?

I'd be worried about a burn-through without one, but I admit, I don't have any experience of lighting a fire in a beer keg to make that assumption.

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Nope...nuthin'.

Just a thickwall beer keg.

Maybe I can remember to
get a photo on my next trip.

No swirl chamber, no secondary
or primary heated air source, and
no outside air source. Almost
looks like a joke but it does the
job very well. I was impressed.

-Rick

[kyle]

Rick, did you ever get that picture of the "keg-o-heater"???

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Was just there three days ago. Wrote myself a
note, took the camera, and remembered just
after the neighbor left to go to town for the day.
Next time for sure!
-Rick

[msjones]

Just out of curiosity, what type of cost would we be talking about for a masonry heater for a log cabin? Nothing exotic, just something nice to look at and functional that would supply heat for 12-24 hours.

[kyle]

Its been more than a couple years since I had figured out what it would cost me and if I remember correctly I was coming up with a cost of $7k minimum for a basic masonry heater and I think that was with me doing most of the work. Hiring someone 10k is sticking in my head.

[rreidnauer]

Wow, there's a tough question to put a number to. You can expect masonry heaters to cost $3,000 to $7,000 for "kits", with some going up to $15,000 to $30,000 for custom built! There are so many variables. The way to get best savings is to build your own. For example, this website (http://www.hollowtop.com/cls_html/do-it-yourself/masonry_stoves.htm#lyle) has plans which claims you to build one for around $1,000.

Or, you could go with my earlier mentioned idea for the "Tank, Drum & Sand" method, with a simple mortared brick or stone jacket around it to pretty it up. (and add additional mass) This could be built for little more than the cost of the mortar and stovepipe, if you scrounge up the rest.

[msjones]

That doesn't sound too bad, considering the return on investment. I was reading in someplaces that they could run 30-60k. I don't know what type they were talking about though, and the suppliers in the links at the start of this post don't seem to have prices but ask you to call them for consultation. So, 7-10k doesn't sound bad. Could I ask what was the size of your home you got the estimate for and what type of heater was it?

[msjones]

Didn't see your post while I was typing rreidnauer. Building one from scratch sounds a little daunting for me. But you never know. Do you think the home built one will supply 12-24 hours of heat? This does sound like an interesting source of heat though, I will have to look into it some more.

[rreidnauer]

I haven't received a quote for an installation, rather, I cumulated my numbers from extensive searches online, when I was considering heating methods for my future home. $60,000 sounds incredibly high, but I guess geography can play a large part in such installations. (and of course, the size of the heater and associated foundation)

I never read much on sizing masonry heaters to the square footage of a home. Rather, it seems the plan is to build as large a mass as you can for an available space or budget. The reasoning is, the larger the structure is, the longer you can go between firings, and the more evenly the heat will be released from the mass. If I recall right, I think it was recommended that your mass should be no less than 2,000 pounds, with more obviously being better. Personally, I think 2,000 pounds isn't even close to enough. I think 5,000 pounds should be a bare minimum. My design (with a 30 gallon firebox) would have 3,000 pounds of dry sand, and a masonry surround should give you close to the other 2,000 pounds. I can envision where a large custom built heater could easily go 10,000-20,000+ pounds.

I think 7-10K would be for optimum conditions, such as having an adequate foundation to build upon and chimney availablity/options, and a structure of conservative size.


Do you think the home built one will supply 12-24 hours of heat? This does sound like an interesting source of heat though, I will have to look into it some more.

With a masonry surround, yes, I think 12 hours would be reasonable. Time will vary by how efficient the home is and climate conditions. It won't be nearly as efficient at extracting heat from the fire as a professionally built heater, so you will have to burn more wood a bit longer to get it well heat soaked, but for the price, what can you expect?

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Tom Elpel (LHBA member) built one and it is featured in
his book "Living Homes". Seems to be very effecient and
stores heat for a long period. From what I remember it
was very inexpensive.
-Rick

[Cheam]

Rather, it seems the plan is to build as large a mass as you can for an available space or budget.

from what I have read it is possible to have a stove that is too large. If the weather becomes considerably warmer than you anticipated when you fired, your house will be too warm, and if the temprature falls the house will be too cold. Masonary stoves do not heat up fully until well after the fireing. So, even if you re-fire in the event of colder than anticipated weather, the house may be cold for a while. The length of time the stove needs to heat up and cool down depends on mass so if it is too large your weather forcasting skills may not be enough.

5000-10000 lbs seems to be a normal size for one of these stoves giving 12-24 hours on a firing. Rreidnauer's stove fits into that sizing, so he will not have to predict weather days into the future

[ponyboy]

Hey Rod, I just noticed this kit for your 55 gallon drum heater.

http://www.lehmans.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=199&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=671&iSubCat=737&iProductID=199

[ponyboy]

In the PM issue# 51 ( the one with the grapes on the cover).
They show a guy who makes his own masonry stove.
Now I'm not too sure if his choice of materials (paving slabs) to make the stove
is the best, but it is interesting.

He has a web site, but unfortunately he still lives in the 90's and it's painful
to negotiate. :-)

http://www.envisioneer.net/stove.htm

[Eric Clapner]

He has a web site, but unfortunately he still lives in the 90's and it's painful
to negotiate. :-)

Lives in the 90's? I think he's just happy he still found a use for his Commodore 64.

Thought provoking idea, but those silly animations on his site locked up my browser.

Scott

[rreidnauer]

Hey Ponyboy. I don't know how I missed seeing your June 15th post. If i were to make my homebuilt stove, I would use that door kit. (or another one made by the same manufacturer which is a little fancier) Actually, they make a few more accessories for barrel stoves. http://www.vogelzang.com/MiscAcc/barrelStove-accessories.htm

Yea, that last one is pretty interesting, but it does need more mass to be truly effective. (of course, maybe they weren't going for a thermal mass stove)

[ponyboy]

Yea, that last one is pretty interesting, but it does need more mass to be truly effective. (of course, maybe they weren't going for a thermal mass stove)

:-)
From the drift of the article it looked like he was going for a thermal mass stove. He said the reason he didn't go with a normal wood stove is he thought to would be too hot in his 500sqf highly insulated strawbale house. The article states that it takes 2-3 hours to heat it all the way through. A little longer if it was cold. And it remains warm to the touch 18 hours later.

[ponyboy]

Lives in the 90's? I think he's just happy he still found a use for his Commodore 64.

Thought provoking idea, but those silly animations on his site locked up my browser.

Scott

:-)
It's probably powered from burning some kind of hemp related product in the stove...
I'm just glad it wasn't a TRS80!

AMIGA 500 Rules! :-)

[The_Truth]

Hey Ponyboy, don't "trash" the TRaSh80 !!!! I did some of my finest programs in 2k BASIC saving it to a cassette tape!!!

[2 cents]

whoa, BASIC? I think I just had a flashback to 1987.

2 cents

[ponyboy]

Hey Ponyboy, don't "trash" the TRaSh80 !!!! I did some of my finest programs in 2k BASIC saving it to a cassette tape!!!

*

He he he. I went the Vic 20 route. :-)
I remember getting a 40 Mb hard drive for my Amiga 500 and thinking that I would never be able to fill it up!

[wolfkeeper]

I believe you may be disappointed with the results because the thickness of the sand layer around the upper sides and top as it may be very slow to radiate.There is much information to consider for a hybrid type heater in the book "The Book of Masonry Heaters".

[Curtis S.]

I too am very interested in Masonry Heaters, I attended a week long hands on work shop in North Carolina last year Put on by MHA. We built 3 different heaters, a chimney, and a large wood fired pizza oven. WHAT AN EVENT! They had alot going on. It was 3 LARGE MEALS a day, all the beer you can drink, Meetings, an auction, and alot lot of nice people. Also a pizza party, of course hand made pizzas cooked in the pizza oven, I met a fella there from Colorado who is going to help me build my heater Hopefully in my log cabin. Oh, by the way my wife and I are going to the Washington class this May. Thanks, Curtis

[wolfkeeper]

Just like to add my thoughts concerning masonry heaters. First as far as up front costs,many of you are familiar with the initial lay out in thousands for a heat pump system.Forced air systems of any kind create indoor weather and you pay the power or fuel man every month.There are many sources available for the self builder.I have used video courses to teach myself how to mig/tig weld and to use my Smithy lathe/mill machine.I have been heating with a Monitor stove oil heater for years but it just gotten too expensive.I am going to self build a masonry heater and have fun doing it!! Now as to a propane fired masonry heater-NO NO NO-my research tells me that would result in a very BIG explosion from gas accumulation in the down drafting flues.Stick with wood.

[Captn]

I love Thomas Elpel's other books and his videos are pretty cool too ...

I'm ordering his living homes book today! I love the concept of the masonry heater.

[Curtis S.]

A Masonry Heater will last a Lifetime and more. Best of all Not much to break as far as mechanical stuff. Just some hinges for clean outs and front glass door. If you burn these things properly there is very very little to no build up in the flue. Very clean burning. I am putting in a bake oven
with mine. Cook pizza, bread, cookies, or whatever. Oh Ya.

[Dutchie]

I found this extended site of a Russian mason. I 've read most of the articles which was time-consuming! Multiple designs are proposed and explained, even a steam- generating design for a bath house. The best way of heat exchange is explained.
The good thing is that with a bit of bricklaying experience you can build them yourself with the building plans on the site. To understand these plans fully you will probably need someone who can read russian.
Hope this is useful for someone.

Dutchie

[Dutchie]

The missing link:
http://www.stove.ru/index.php?lng=1

enjoy,

Dutchie

[slrrls]

I'm planning to build a rocket mass heater stove oven.

You can look them up on youtube, lots of building technique there. Appears to be inexpensive to build as in 300 to 1000 for some impressive designs.
Using the rocket mass method the wood used to heat is a fraction of these heaters your talking about in these posts.
The most impressive designs for rocket mass heaters I'm seeing are heating the floor and or ground beneath the subfloor.
There is a chinese group teaching (in chinese) or may be Japanese, I don't recall.
The fireplace they are building in the video is very impressive and they lay the piping on the ground then encapsulate in concrete so you could lay stone in the concrete I imagine for looks and make it part of your floor so it rises up out of your floor. I'm still trying to work out how to build the floor so it is tight around the concrete if using this method. I was going to get some links from youtube to post for you. But, if you just type in rocket mass heater stove oven in youtube or any combination there of utilizing rocket mass as the main search then you will see plenty. Also find some great web pages with build plans for free as well.
A good description and page I found equated the wood use to this. In a good wood stove he was burning 3 cords of wood a season to heat with. Using the rocket mass method he heated with less than a cord for the winter.
Also since this is rocket mass method these guys are heating off of tree trimmings and pick up sticks instead of having to cut or buy and cut trees.
Looks like the way to go and I think all will agree.

I'm one of the new kids on the block taking the may class this year.

[slrrls]

By the way I'm picking up a green house this week and I'll build my first rocket mass heater in the next couple months to heat the green house in the winter. I channel pipe through the ground to heat the ground beneath the plants using only sticks to heat. I found the DIY's through online search and the stoves are small! I mean Probably less than 300.00 for everything by my estimate bricks, pipes and all.

[jrdavis]

slrrls --
How did the rocket stove build go?
Were you able to make it for less than $300?

Was there any structure you made for setting the heater on?
Pics are always nice.

James.

[John17three]

slrrls --
How did the rocket stove build go?
Were you able to make it for less than $300?

Was there any structure you made for setting the heater on?
Pics are always nice.

James.


Hopefully slrrls didn't have misfire on that rocket of his...to much Elton John will do that that to ya!

[John17three]

As far as I can tell, most masonry heaters are used from the main living quarters (living room, dining room, kitchen), but how could someone incorporate a masonry heater on the basement level of a multi-level log home (walkout basement level, main floor, and second/loft floor)? Or is this advisable?

Seems like to me that you'd want the masonry heater on the main floor, but I'd like a basement log home. I'm guessing the masonry heater would be too heavy to rest on girders, right? It'd have to be on grounded floor. Is this a case of "can't have your cake and eat it, too?"

Any ideas?

[rreidnauer]

Yea, a masonry heater has no business being placed on a floor. It requires it's own foundation. That can be built up to any floor though. I wired a home that a mason had built for himself. Naturally, he put in a massive, brick, double-sided fireplace, not only on the first floor, but also extended up to a double-sided fireplace in the master bedroom as well. You can imagine, that requires a footer just for itself.

Anyhow, sure, you could fire a masonry heater from the basement if you want. It's the flue maze throughout the structure that really does the vast majority of the heating of all that masonry, not the firebox.

[Bill LaCrosse]

http://www.lakeshoredesign.info/home

Ask Kerry, I bought his kit and he knows his stuff!
Bill

[Tom Featherstone]

I found this extended site of a Russian mason. I 've read most of the articles which was time-consuming! Multiple designs are proposed and explained, even a steam- generating design for a bath house. The best way of heat exchange is explained.
The good thing is that with a bit of bricklaying experience you can build them yourself with the building plans on the site. To understand these plans fully you will probably need someone who can read russian.
Hope this is useful for someone.

Dutchie

Thanks Dutchie! Now I've got a lot of reading to do....
Tom

[Timberwolf]

http://www.lakeshoredesign.info/home

Ask Kerry, I bought his kit and he knows his stuff!
Bill


Mine arrived yesterday. Can't wait to get it up and running.

Note though, the added costs associated with installing such a beast (but Kerry's is by far the cheapest route, other kits cost upwards of 10-20K for basically the same thing) such as the footing and block wall to bring the fireplace up to the living space level.

[Bill LaCrosse]

Make sure you unroll the woll insulation and look on the cardboard as there are more instructions in there!! One thing we didn't do was damp sponge the inside of the firebox when the refactory cement was wet and had to scrub off the extra PITA!

[Animal]

Has anyone worked through what the RPSLs might look like if a masonry heater was placed close to the center of the standard 30x30 plan with basement?

I've been playing around with ideas. Everyone seems to agree that a masonry furnace should be centrally located. And so it seems most practical to have the central RPSL share the same central concrete "island" as a masonry furnace. (This would come to about 2 feet below the level of the 1st floor.) One consequence of this choice would be the need to elevate the other two RPSLs to the same level. More concrete in the foundation, but worth it?

And this would wreak havoc with a uniform joisting system, I'd bet......Is it kosher to suspend the 1st floor off the masonry heater/central RPSL foundation?

[slrrls]

Sorry I have not been back on for a while. We made plan adjustments last winter and decided to sell and move to more acreage. Been battled projects and getting the house ready to sale. Just a few more items on the house now and it can go up for sale, yeha. You had asked how a rocket mass would work in the floor of a log home. check out these guys build. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lUCOowOmJ8 So you can bury in the ground and the heat will radiate upward heating the floors. I haven't set up the greenhouse so no floor heater yet. I have two pallets of fire bricks from an old mill furnace that I may use to build the channel down the center of the greehouse with the metal tube inside it. Have all this in a channel dug down the center of the greenhouse then cover back over with dirt. With firebrick ovens the heat will radiate slowly through the layers of brick so you can build a small fire at noon today and the following day the oven will still be in the 400 degree zone to cook with. While a floor heater would not have layers of brick It is supposed to radiate for hours through out the nite while you sleep all this from just a short fire with sticks how awesome is that.

[oldtrapper]

Since there is a thread on the public side about masonry heaters, I am posting this on both sides.

Took the masonry heater class at http://northhouse.org/ . Grand Marais is really a pretty and interesting little place. The class was well done and geared toward being able to fabricate a heater when done. The instructor, Eric Mosier is one of less than 40 certified heater masons in the US. Instruction was about a forth lecture and powerpoint and three fourths brick and mud. Real do it yourselfers will have no trouble, IMO, going home and doing this project.

The inner core of the heater is firebricks and shown here up to the top of the door level. Notice the notches for the lintel angle irons.

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee508/oldtrapper/core-to-door-top_zps3f532b92.jpg

The smoke is vented through side down drafts and connects to the chimney at the bottom rear.

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee508/oldtrapper/flue-to-chimney_zpsdd474161.jpg

The downdraft flues are banded to the core so they can move. Note the mineral wool.

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee508/oldtrapper/bands-around-downdrafts_zpsa97f3e2c.jpg

The entire core is wrapped in cardboard so it can move and expand as it heats. Without this space the veneer of common bricks would crack.

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee508/oldtrapper/cardboard-around-core_zps02387c60.jpg

[oldtrapper]

cont.


This shot shows the veneer up to the door top so door installation could be demonstrated. We did not lay any more bricks as the instructor felt the time would be better spent having various options dry stacked so we could se how they are done. For instance, he showed us how to build a heated bench around the heater. I apologize for the refugee from Myth Busters that keeps getting in the pics. ;-{>8

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee508/oldtrapper/veneer-to-top-of-door_zps51914dc3.jpg

For more info about masonry heaters and more pics of another group taking this same class go to the instructor's website. http://www.solidrockmasonry.com/events.html

For a gold mine of info about masonry heaters, http://www.mha-net.org/

This concept, IMO, rocks, so to speak.

[John17three]

Would be worth the cash for that class if it wasn't in the far reaches of MN! Lol.

I don't have a dog sled. :-(

[oldtrapper]

There was a fella in the class from Kansas. A dog sled woulda been handy. ;-{>8

[LogHomeFeverDan]

Oldtrapper, have you looked at rocket stove mass heaters? Are masonry heaters of the same principle? Should a masonry heater be mid room as opposed to what I envision a traditional fireplace along an exterior wall? Is it feasible to include a brick pizza oven? Thanks for this info was fantastic! More to read and broaden my challenged mind.

[oldtrapper]

Hi Dan, they are really IMO two different critters. That is particularly true in their most commonly seen iterations. The masonry heater works by heating much the same way as standing in the sun, it radiates. Not to say there is no convection or even conduction (when you sit on it). It is best positioned in the center of a building. Chimneys work best when they are mostly inside the building.

Masonry heaters often include ovens, black and white, but you may have something else in mind when you say pizza oven. I would encourage you to spend considerable time at the masonry heater association site as it has a wealth of info for free. I read a book by Ken Matesz called "Masonry Heaters". If you read that book, you will have read more about heaters than a lot of masons.

Keep on learnin. This is worthwhile. ;-{>8

[LogHomeFeverDan]

TY Sir, I shall. I'd like to have the heating system serve as the divide between the kitchen and great room in our LHBA home. I don't want a conventional fireplace. In WNC the winters are not terribly cold but I so like the idea of masonry heaters or rocket stove mass heaters. The masonry heater oven is what I had in mind. I read much on the website you provided and some of my questions were answered. I will continue this quest of knowledge though. Thanks again!

[LogHomeFeverDan]

Got Ken Matesz book on the mac kindle, reading it now. Good read so far.

[oldtrapper]

Cool. Um, er, I mean, warm.

[thoner7]

Would it be OK for a masonry heater to have its back up against an interior wall? Or does it have to be open on all four sides? Would an interior wall withstand the heat?

[rreidnauer]

Of course you can. Nothing on that much masonry will reach temperatures that of combustion. That's really the whole point. To provide a consistant, moderated heat.

[oldtrapper]

Thoner, were I considering a position close to a wall, I would leave a space for purposes of air convection. Masonry can certainly be insulated to the point where the heat factor would be no worry. This is done all the time when the cap of the firebox is insulated.

I believe Tom Elpel put his MH up against a wall so he could feed wood from his garage. IMO, MHs work great as dividers in a home, as in a divider between a kitchen and a living room. I will also point out that chimneys work best where most of the flue is in a heated room. They draw best this way. I once had a fireplace with its chimney on the outside (end of room) and it was nearly impossible to start without smoking up the house. Now I understand why.

The heat from a MH is radiant in nature, so, when considering this, think about physical barriers as shade.

[Strongbow]

From looking at some of Maine's images it seems as though masonry heaters, when centrally located relative to the floor plan, would be much better in smaller homes than larger homes, particularly if the smaller home has an open or mostly open floor plan. Perhaps there are ways to disperse the heat outward rather than upward, but I lack familiarity. Am I spot on with my assumption or are the masonry heaters so good that I would need nothing else, assuming I'm building an LHBA style butt-and-pass with a footprint no larger than 40x40 with no more than two stories, basement, and possible loft?

Wow. Wordy question. Sorry for the mouthful, everyone. I try to keep these things simple. I promise.

[oldtrapper]

Strongbow, good question, a heater mason can actually do the math to answer that question, but it is complex.

The book "Masonry Heaters" by Ken Matesz contains the calculations.

[Strongbow]

Had the wife take a look at masonry heaters. She likes! It may be a go! :cool:

[Mosseyme]

With the masonry heaters, is there ever a problem with creosote buildup? With all that convoluted chimney it seems likely and how would you ever get it cleaned out if it did.

[loghousenut]

With the masonry heaters, is there ever a problem with creosote buildup? With all that convoluted chimney it seems likely and how would you ever get it cleaned out if it did.

Finally, I get to pipe into a question on this thread without it looking like a hijack!

The fire burns so darned hot and quick that it never lets any nasty stuff build up in all those nooks and crannies. Little sticks going up at full blast. It never smolders like it would in a Blaze King.




So what do you folks think about that election?..... OOOoooops... Ignore that last little bit!

[oldtrapper]

Great answer, nut. MHs are known for their clean burns and lack of pollution and creosote build-up.


On the latter - - we'll see. ;-{>8

[rockinlog]

so is the consensus here that a masonry heater would be the best and most efficient way to heat your log home or does it depend on the size? also you aint seen nothing yet wait till tonights speech tonight lol

[StressMan79]

**not covered on major networks**

Masonry heaters are big. I'd use a blase king, no hallways, and fans.

[oldtrapper]

Rockinlog, go to http://www.mha-net.org/ and look at the gallery to get a feel for MHs. They are about the size of traditional fire places, IMO. Their configuration, as you will see is limited largely by imagination. ;-{>8

The only real drawback to a MH is cost. They can be a DIY project.

http://jaredbarnhart.blogspot.com/search/label/masonry%20heater

[rockinlog]

thanks stressman blaseking huh thats a wood burner right? also thanks old trapper i will check that out appreciate all the info guys

[oldtrapper]

OK. here's a free set of MH plans for the DIYers.

http://dnr.mo.gov/pubs/pub781.pdf

youtube clip of above build. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHK64E6ZgYo

[rockinlog]

OK. here's a free set of MH plans for the DIYers.

http://dnr.mo.gov/pubs/pub781.pdf

youtube clip of above build. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHK64E6ZgYo

thanks bud im very interested in this!

[oldtrapper]

Did you notice this item (plan portfolio) on the MHA site?

http://www.mha-net.org/bookstore/

[rockinlog]

Did you notice this item (plan portfolio) on the MHA site?

http://www.mha-net.org/bookstore/

thanks old trapper!

[oldtrapper]

;-{>8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPqDKpmcJUI

[rockinlog]

cool video old trapper! i might just purchase the full length dvd and i guess it would make sense to have this m/h against an exterior wall to make loading of firewood a cleaner job thanks again!

[jrdavis]

Got the book.
Got the video and now ... a youtube video..
AWESOME!

I believe that he has even build using the LHBA methods too.

[loghousenut]

;-{>8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPqDKpmcJUI

Somehow I was never sold on the idea til this video. For 30 years I have toyed with the idea but never wished I had a concrete pad that would support it til now. I think it might be the idea of the outside door to load and start the fire that got me. I must have seen the idea before but somehow it never hit me til now.

This is a good idea for those of us who can work fast and hard enough to get it done.

[loghousenut]

I meant to say "those of you"...

[slamasha]

My dad has built a masonry heater in his log cabin from bricks. It is a hybrid: also works as a stove and has a fireplace. Masonry heater is a way to generate heat in every older house in Russia. The typical heater is a multi-purpose structure which also takes quite a bit of a space. Besides the stove, there is a bench (the temperature there is warm enough to have a bed in there). So, in older times families had children or older folks ("babushka's" and "dedushka's") sleeping on heater benches. I used to sleep myself on a bench of a masonry heater -- it is very comfortable and warm, especially in cold weather. Here is how a typical Russian masonry heater/stove looks like:

https://sites.google.com/site/slamasha/013_im_0001.jpg

[thoner7]

Has anyone ever built a stove like the one in that guys video?

[oldtrapper]

Thanks slamasha, that is soooo cool.

Thoner, that heater is Tom's own design. He sells complete instructions. Oh yeah, and no I haven't built that one.

[loghousenut]

My dad has built a masonry heater in his log cabin from bricks. It is a hybrid: also works as a stove and has a fireplace. Masonry heater is a way to generate heat in every older house in Russia. The typical heater is a multi-purpose structure which also takes quite a bit of a space. Besides the stove, there is a bench (the temperature there is warm enough to have a bed in there). So, in older times families had children or older folks ("babushka's" and "dedushka's") sleeping on heater benches. I used to sleep myself on a bench of a masonry heater -- it is very comfortable and warm, especially in cold weather. Here is how a typical Russian masonry heater/stove looks like:

https://sites.google.com/site/slamasha/013_im_0001.jpg


Hence the name... Russian fireplace.

[slamasha]

Elpel call them "Russian Masonry Heaters". Modern ones look more like what that Masonry Heater Association (http://www.mha-net.org/) is doing.


Here is an implementation of a "Russian fireplace" nowadays (my dad has built similar one, but smaller in size):
https://sites.google.com/site/slamasha/42zAMmRL.jpg
https://sites.google.com/site/slamasha/12.jpg

Usually it's placed in the middle of the loghouse and separates the space into 2 or 4 spaces. The front side is used as a "fireplace" and the back side has a stove associated with it.
https://sites.google.com/site/slamasha/9.jpg

My relatives lived in a house which had a fireplace separating 2 rooms. In 1 room it was used as a stove/heat and in another room there was a sleeping bench. Moreover, the entire wall was also made of bricks and was heated by this beast. In the brick house it was common to incorporate the heating walls connected with a "Russian fireplace". If only we had enough money to implement this heating system here :)...

[oldtrapper]

I love everything about that place. Thanks so much for posting it. ;-{>8

[oldtrapper]

A bit of info on heating water with a MH.

http://www.firespeaking.com/media/articles/details-of-plumbing/