NIAC Surviving a Catastrophic Power Outage Dec. 2018

[misplayed-hand]

I thought there might be some value in calling attention to the DHS recent report: https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/NIAC%20Catastrophic%20Power%20Outage%20Study_508%2 0FINAL.pdf
I try, as much as possible, to not rely on the government for things crucial to my well being but I do tend to take notice when they take the time to inform the peons of a threat. It might be wise to think through your options when planning your build.

[mudflap]

One of my fears as well, misplayed.

- We are looking to put in a root cellar- right under our kitchen floor.
- Also looking at greenhouse designs
- either I'm getting a condensation induced water distiller ("waterseer") or I'm making one. Waiting on the waterseer folks to get back from their new year holiday, I guess.

The one thing I haven't figure out is refrigeration. And I'm not an expert on preserving meat, so learning one of those things is on my list. An EMP would probably destroy electronics, so unless I had a backup solar system stored in my faraday cage, I'd be out of luck. Refrigeration was one of the main things we missed during the week-long power outage we had here a few years back.

My cabin in Idaho was just down the street from Paris Ice caves. Pioneers used to get ice from these caves even in the summer- there's ice there year round. Here in the south, the ice is only lasts until the sun comes up, so I'll have to think about this one.

[rckclmbr428]

salt+smoke will cure most meats for a loooong time

[mudflap]

salt+smoke will cure most meats for a loooong time

Yeah, I'd like to get proficient at processing all kinds of meat. I've got chickens, catfish, and other fish down. Don't know anything about squirrels, rabbits, deer, etc. My neighbor runs a deer processing business in his backyard- he's a retired butcher. He says during the busy season, he'll process hundreds of deer in a season. Says I can come over anytime and he'll let me volunteer for a day.

No one at our house is on any meds, so that's a big plus if there's a major outage.

[rckclmbr428]

One thing I do stock up on is amoxicillin, it can be bought otc for fish or birds online. Same thing you get from the pharmacy. Pneumonia doesn't kill people anymore because they have access to antibiotics. Take access to them away and people will start dying a lot more

[BoFuller]

We can tons of fruits and vegetables - enough to last a long time. We haven’t had meat for a long time, so refrigeration isn’t a make or break deal with us.


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[misplayed-hand]

Its always interesting to see what a hive fixates on.


The one thing I haven't figure out is refrigeration.
You don't have to figure out anything new. A spring house is what you need. Pick-up a used copy of Foxfire 4. https://www.amazon.com/Foxfire-Trading-Sassafras-Buckets-Gardening/dp/0385120877


“We asked Harry if he likes a refrigerator more than his springhouse. He favored the springhouse. “You can keep things in here [the springhouse] for about five days. We've put our milk in here, and gone off and visited three or four days and come back, and the milk would still be sweet.”

“Harry mentioned another advantage: “If you keep your stuff sealed up in a frigidaire and you put fish or something like that there, everything you've got will taste like fish. But in a springhouse, you see, the air's not compact and that don't happen. And the temperature wouldn't vary ten degrees.”

“In the top of the springhouse is an air vent that measures about ten by twelve inches. “That gives it air. See, if I had it closed up in here, it would be like a refrigerator. It would condense and begin to get thick, You'd have dead air in here like a refrigerator. You ain't got much space in a refrigerator and the same old air stagnates, while here in a springhouse, it circulates. And if weren't for that vent, there'd be water dripping in here all day.”


There's tons on free books/manuals out there. I've downloaded most of mine but here's a few links to get you started:
https://www.offthegridnews.com/off-grid-foods/preserving-meat-without-refrigeration/
https://ftpmirror.your.org/pub/misc/cd3wd/1005/_ag_meat_preserve_simple_79_unfao_en_lp_112360_.pd f
Drying overview: http://www.cals.uidaho.edu/edcomm/pdf/PNW/PNW0397.pdf
Farm Food Preservation 1918: https://books.google.com/books?id=_soqAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Cured, Smoked & Fermented Meats: https://books.google.com/books?id=OTxvBQAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Wild+Food+Proceedings+of+the+Oxford+Symposium+o n+Food+and+Cookery+2004&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ubwRVaznC4myggSipYGgCg&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Wild%20Food%20Proceedings%20of%20the%20Oxford%20 Symposium%20on%20Food%20and%20Cookery%202004&f=false
Dehydrating 1920: https://archive.org/details/dehydratingfoods1920andr/page/n7
Biltong maker plans: https://www.popularmechanics.co.za/how-to-make/reader-projectcut-and-dried/
PDF honeypot: http://www.armageddononline.org/PDF/


And a few solar links as well:
Sun angle: https://susdesign.com/sunangle/
Power pack used by ham in Puerto Rico disaster: https://www.bioennopower.com/collections/mobile-power-station/products/400-w-hr-power-pack-bpp-m400
Whole house: https://www.sol-ark.com/reviews/
Portable gen: https://inergytek.com/
Simple pump: https://www.simplepump.com/
Solar food drying: https://www.aee-intec.at/0uploads/dateien553.pdf

[mudflap]

perfect. I'm reviewing the links now.

Bo- I was a vegetarian for about 2 years as a teen. Then my church sent me on a mission to New Zealand. while preparing to leave, my girlfriend invited me to a family BBQ. she was Tongan. There was lots of pig. Her father laughed when I said I was vegetarian and said in a Tongan accent "not many islanders will take a vegetarian seriously". So as not to offend him (6'2", 275 lbs), I dug in. But I only did it to appease him. honest. that pig was delicious. didn't want to offend. delicious pig. yum.

Seriously, though, it takes less land - like 1/10, I think, to support a vegetarian lifestyle, than a meat eater. Protein is harder to come by, but you can do it with beans and eggs (if you're that kind of veggie).

[rreidnauer]

I'm a big fan of vegans and vegetarians.

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All the more steak and chops for me!!!!!

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[BoFuller]

Seriously, though, it takes less land - like 1/10, I think, to support a vegetarian lifestyle, than a meat eater. Protein is harder to come by, but you can do it with beans and eggs (if you're that kind of veggie).

I get more than enough protein from beans, eggs, kale, spinach, etc. There’s more protein in a pound of kale than there is in a pound of steak. Not trying to convert anybody, cuz then the price of veggies would go up :)
Just saying, I’m not at all worried about no meat, no dairy.
At my checkups, my doctor says I’m the healthiest patient he has.


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[mudflap]

I get more than enough protein from beans, eggs, kale, spinach, etc. There’s more protein in a pound of kale than there is in a pound of steak. Not trying to convert anybody, cuz then the price of veggies would go up :)
Just saying, I’m not at all worried about no meat, no dairy.
At my checkups, my doctor says I’m the healthiest patient he has.

No offense meant, Bo, really. :)

If it wasn't for being a vegetarian, I would never know that it wasn't red meat causing my high cholesterol: I went to a check up, and the doctor said to cut back on the red meat- my cholesterol was really high. I said, "I'm a vegetarian." "Well, you need to exercise more." "I bike 10 miles a day." Well, he thought it was family history or something. Turns out, I was working at a fast food place, and my boss was giving me free milkshakes every day (yes, real milk- and lots of sugar). I found out 20 years later it was the SUGAR causing my high cholesterol, not the saturated fat. I don't actually subsist on red meat, but I do find it tasty. But that store bought processed stuff is definitely bad for you. We could all do better with twice as many vegetables as meat, no matter what our views are.

[BoFuller]

No offense taken. :)

You’re right on about the sugar. Wicked stuff.


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[rawson]

Grew up in SE Iowa, a 54 babe. Ate big farm raise food big meals. Fast forward wish my parent's would have carried on the tradition of lard in the cast iron firing pan for cooking. I can't remember a friend's kitchen that did not have a lard frying pan on the stove ready to feed us brats. Fast forward, it sucks to lose your parents to Staten drugs, blood presser meds etc........I am on no meds,feel great always been a fat eater and at 65 will continue doing so. Low fat is a brain robber, IMHO. I enjoy the Keto diet, stop eating mid-afternoon, I burn fat for fuel, eat organ meat etc, Beef, Elk, Deer, a see food diet. I do not eat processed food if I can't pronounce the ingredients I don't eat it Life is to short not to enjoy the savory taste of meat. Our ancestor's did it for thousands of years. I do not go to doctors and don't plan on having one to each his or hers own. I do avoid refind sugar complexity. Heven't stepped into a Dr office in 30 plus years going fon 40. But to each his own materialism and decisions.

[loghousenut]

Well all I know is that if it is slow enough or stupid enough to grab, I'll eat it. Animal, vegetable, entamable (look it up, Bo), or mineral... If someone on the planet can thrive on it, I'll eat it.

I have found wild mushrooms hard to look at for the past few years, but everything else is fair game.


PS... I did the vegetarian thing several times for several years at a time in the far past. It always ended with some cute bug or steak walking up to me and saying "Wanna live dangerously, Big Boy?". That's all it took to turn me.

[rreidnauer]

. There’s more protein in a pound of kale than there is in a pound of steak.
I hear that said about broccoli too.

Unfortunately that is untrue. The accurate statement is "per calorie," not "per pound." Pound for pound, kale has about half the amount of protein to steak. You'd have to consume an absurd amount of kale to match the grams of protein gained from steak.
The second half of the problem is, simply counting grams of protein isn't a measure of healthy living. It's what the protein is to supply, which is amino acids, and more particularly the essential amino acids. Neither broccoli nor kale can provide all the essential amino acids needed for the building blocks of healthy muscle healing and development. I believe it is just 6.5 oz of steak to get a full daily allowance of essential amino acids. That's not to say Bo's diet doesn't gain the remaining needed amino acids from other things in his diet, just that kale is not a truly comparable alternative to steak.

I have no problem with those who choose to be vegetarian. Just pointing out just one of the many pieces of bad information on the subject.

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[rckclmbr428]

And medium rare/bloody kale never tastes as good as steak

[BoFuller]

Good correction Rod.
That’s debatable, Ronnie :)

I grew up butchering hogs and chickens and meat was my main food source until college. After a summer of working at a national meat packing plant, I never touched processed meats again (hot dogs, bologna, etc). I got sick just watching what went into that stuff.
In my thirties I eliminated most meat after studying Genesis (meat was okay after the flood, but it wasn’t the ideal beginning diet).
Then in 2005, at age 55, I read the China Study by Colin Campbell and haven’t touched meat since then. It has more protein per calorie, but at what cost?
I’m not looking to convert anybody, just saying that a lot of factors can go into a decision; like heart disease, cancer, cost, personal choice, availability, green house emissions, etc. etc.
Now my Mom was a meat eater her whole life and she lived to be 96, but my Dad only made it to 70, so yes, there’s something to counteract every argument you can come up with. All my siblings and cousins joke about me being vegan now, but whatever. To each his own.


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[loghousenut]

Once you meet Bo you'll have a harder time with the medical arguments against his eating habits and lifestyle. The old rascal beams health and vitality out of every pore. I have as hard a time keeping up with him now as I did when I was 5 and he was 14 years older than me. His mind is as sharp today... well, it is hard to complete that sentence without turning it into a sarcastic paraprosdokian.

I think there is plenty of evidence pointing to problems with the normal American diet. I'll be the poster child if you like.

[rreidnauer]

Yeah, last summer, I really buckled down on taking control of my eating habits, after finally getting sick of a slowly ever-increasing gut as I age. I'm 5'-8", and was pushing 185lbs. Through mostly a keto based diet, I dropped 30 lbs in about eight weeks, but taking care to watch the amino acids, so I didn't sacrifice muscle mass in the process. At that point, I changed my diet to more of a calorie-regulatory method. Basically I strive to hold in the 150 to 155 lb range. I'll allow myself to splurge a little if I'm running on the low side, and restrict myself a bit if I get on the high side. It's great, because I get to eat everything I always have before deciding to loose weight, perhaps just not as often. Funny thing, when switching to weight maintaining mode, for several more weeks, I continued to loose the "spare tire." Not exactly sure what was going on there. I guess I must have been swapping fat for muscle mass, as weight alone was constant. Kind of impressive, considering I don't have any exercise regiment.

I really believe one can eat pretty much anything (lacking heavy preservatives and processing) and be healthy, provided it's all done in moderation. Slamming the door on one specific thing or another to supposedly make a healthier you, I don't believe is realistic nor necessary.

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[BoFuller]

Once you meet Bo you'll have a harder time with the medical arguments against his eating habits and lifestyle. The old rascal beams health and vitality out of every pore. I have as hard a time keeping up with him now as I did when I was 5 and he was 14 years older than me. His mind is as sharp today... well, it is hard to complete that sentence without turning it into a sarcastic paraprosdokian.

I think there is plenty of evidence pointing to problems with the normal American diet. I'll be the poster child if you like.

I try. I just turned 69 a week ago and today I did 40 pushups, 30 squats, 50 sit-ups and walked 6 miles.


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[panderson03]

Happy birthday, Bo. many happy returns :)

[rawson]

[QUOTE=BoFuller;151154]I try. I just turned 69 a week ago and today I did 40 pushups, 30 squats, 50 sit-ups and walked 6 miles.


Plus built a log home.

[loghousenut]

Yup, Happy Birthday Bro.

[donjuedo]

Belated happy birthday, Bo!

I will never forget an article I read in the Sunday paper insert, Parade magazine, many years ago. It was an annual article on the oldest people in the US, or possibly the world. One guy was over 110, maybe 112 or more. The journalist called his phone number in Alaska, and the 80+ daughter answered. The journalist asked to speak to the father and she said, "He can't come to the phone right now. He's out chopping firewood." Ha!

I wish such longevity for you, too, Bo.

[Mosseyme]

Late to this conversation but my question is where does the cow get all the right amino acids in the right combinations? Maybe they have a steak farm out back? Maybe I am wrong but I've always thought I understood that you can get a complete protein with all the necessary parts by combining a legume with a whole grain. I don't claim in any way to be the picture of health. My fault for not eating like I know I should.
Brother in law went to a health and lifestyle center a few months ago. First day there. Taken off all diabetic meds including metformin and insulin. Diet, if it is green you can eat it and as much as you want. If it is not green you don't eat it. In 2 day blood sugar went from 200+ to 70-95. Lost 20 lbs first month. 15 lbs 2nd month. It's been 4-5 months. Healthier than in years. Other foods added back but no meats no dairy no processed sugers.

[BoFuller]

Late to this conversation but my question is where does the cow get all the right amino acids in the right combinations? Maybe they have a steak farm out back? Maybe I am wrong but I've always thought I understood that you can get a complete protein with all the necessary parts by combining a legume with a whole grain. I don't claim in any way to be the picture of health. My fault for not eating like I know I should.
Brother in law went to a health and lifestyle center a few months ago. First day there. Taken off all diabetic meds including metformin and insulin. Diet, if it is green you can eat it and as much as you want. If it is not green you don't eat it. In 2 day blood sugar went from 200+ to 70-95. Lost 20 lbs first month. 15 lbs 2nd month. It's been 4-5 months. Healthier than in years. Other foods added back but no meats no dairy no processed sugers.

You go girl!

Right on.

Skeptics, read Eat To Live by Dr. Joel Fuhrman.


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[misplayed-hand]

Illustrated turnkey solution if you have the need courtesy of ar-jedi https://www.ar15.com/forums/outdoors/Portable-power-pack-help-me-pick-one/22-693155/

"plastic box $4.16: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005IURN5M
"USB charger socket $13.28: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F73MGX8/
"powerpole socket $19.99: https://powerwerx.com/panelpole-panel-mount-powerpole-housing
"USB reading lamp $9.99: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XH9XR12
"+12V/12AH battery" example: $29.85 https://www.batterysharks.com/12-Volt-12-Amp-HR-Sealed-Lead-Acid-Battery-p/12v-12ah-hr_ups12-12.htm
"+ misc wiring and connectors"

[smithme2]

I adopted a low fat vegan diet about five years ago. I like how i feel. Dr John mcdougall has several books that helped me understand why the body thrives on such a diet. I still occasionally enjoy meat and in the beginning I’d crave meat or cheese or fat but after a couple years the desire for them went way down. I live on whole grains and potatoes with a cup or so of beans per day along with lots of veggies.

[ChainsawGrandpa]

One of my fears as well, misplayed.

- We are looking to put in a root cellar- right under our kitchen floor.
- Also looking at greenhouse designs
- either I'm getting a condensation induced water distiller ("waterseer") or I'm making one. Waiting on the waterseer folks to get back from their new year holiday, I guess.

The one thing I haven't figure out is refrigeration. And I'm not an expert on preserving meat, so learning one of those things is on my list. An EMP would probably destroy electronics, so unless I had a backup solar system stored in my faraday cage, I'd be out of luck. Refrigeration was one of the main things we missed during the week-long power outage we had here a few years back.

My cabin in Idaho was just down the street from Paris Ice caves. Pioneers used to get ice from these caves even in the summer- there's ice there year round. Here in the south, the ice is only lasts until the sun comes up, so I'll have to think about this one.

Built a trial greenhouse. Just wanted to see if the proof of concept was viable. Went to my sister's for Thanksgiving several years ago. Took fresh vegetables.
"Where'd you get those?" (The quality was obvious).
"From our place."
"When???"
"I picked them about an hour ago."
220' of floor = 65% of the food for one person (no, 297' of greenhouse floor won't provide 100% of the food for one person). Angle iron running the length of the greenhouse. A beam has skateboard trucks riding on the angle iron. The beam has a sled that rides on the beam, and the planter, grower, harvester lies of the sled. Use double pane sliding door glass for the top. The greenhouse has concrete walls that are 6' into the ground. Put an electric fence around the greenhouse to keep the deer from crashing through.

A freezer/ref'r is also pretty simple. Mostly just mass and insulation. The rest is just minor details.

[jgrajiola]

Built a trial greenhouse. Just wanted to see if the proof of concept was viable. Went to my sister's for Thanksgiving several years ago. Took fresh vegetables.
"Where'd you get those?" (The quality was obvious).
"From our place."
"When???"
"I picked them about an hour ago."
220' of floor = 65% of the food for one person (no, 297' of greenhouse floor won't provide 100% of the food for one person). Angle iron running the length of the greenhouse. A beam has skateboard trucks riding on the angle iron. The beam has a sled that rides on the beam, and the planter, grower, harvester lies of the sled. Use double pane sliding door glass for the top. The greenhouse has concrete walls that are 6' into the ground. Put an electric fence around the greenhouse to keep the deer from crashing through.

A freezer/ref'r is also pretty simple. Mostly just mass and insulation. The rest is just minor details.

Any pics of the greenhouse? Inside and out.

[Shark]

Built a trial greenhouse. Just wanted to see if the proof of concept was viable. Went to my sister's for Thanksgiving several years ago. Took fresh vegetables.
"Where'd you get those?" (The quality was obvious).
"From our place."
"When???"
"I picked them about an hour ago."
220' of floor = 65% of the food for one person (no, 297' of greenhouse floor won't provide 100% of the food for one person). Angle iron running the length of the greenhouse. A beam has skateboard trucks riding on the angle iron. The beam has a sled that rides on the beam, and the planter, grower, harvester lies of the sled. Use double pane sliding door glass for the top. The greenhouse has concrete walls that are 6' into the ground. Put an electric fence around the greenhouse to keep the deer from crashing through.

A freezer/ref'r is also pretty simple. Mostly just mass and insulation. The rest is just minor details.Sounds pretty amazing!

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[slamasha]

+2c keeping one goat and a few chicken might be a good strategy for eggs and milk.

Garden would be a must. There are many inspiring youtube videos about growing greens during the winter time.

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