Rocket stove mass heater

[LogHomeFeverDan]

Has anyone built one for the house? I'm speaking of incorporating it for heating the entire house. Anyone ever use one for a smoke house? I've been reading a lot about them for cooking but came across some information on the net about building one to heat. Feedback???

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Had planned to have mine installed by now but someone else has their RV right in
my way. Looks like I'll be paying for electricity & propane for the winter (Grrr....)

Mine is to be steel with an air to air heat exchanger. Properly loaded (the smoke passes through the fire) they supposedly don't put off any smoke after the initial firing.

Guess I can keep the forum informed on the progress next Spring.


G'pa

[LogHomeFeverDan]

Yeah I'll be looking forward to this ChainsawGrandpa. I like the idea. Small amount of wood for some decent heat and very efficient. I'm kinda toying with the idea of also incorporating a smokehouse.

[exsailor]

I am not sure a rocket stove would work for a smoke house. One of the reasons a rocket stove is so effieicient is it burns so completely and hotly there is little smoke. In a smoke house you need low heat around 140 degrees and a lot of smoke to slowly cure and flavor the meat. Seems to me the two are at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

[LogHomeFeverDan]

Yeah Exsailor, that's orginally what I thought as well. THen I saw a set up.

[exsailor]

So Log HomeFeverDan, what kind of setup uses high heat and no smoke produced to smoke meat. I can't see how it would work. I have looked at several Utube videos concerning rocket stoves and still don't see how it will work, because they essentially burn the gasses in the smoke to create their high efficiency.

[LogHomeFeverDan]

The setup I saw, and pardon me but I can't remember where it was, but they decreased the "combustion" chamber length. The longer that chamber is the more you create the vortex of reheat and thus higher combustion less smoke. If you decrease the length of the combustion chamber you have less efficient combustion and more smoke. The diagram I saw showed a "shorter" combustion area that still produced enough heat for a warmed seating area then directed the remaining smoke to an outdoor smoke house.

You are correct you can design a home rocket mass heater with a long enough/large enough combustion chamber/area that will create a natural vortex with such high efficiency only steam is emitted. Of course there's no way to utilize steam in a smoke house.

[LogHomeFeverDan]

I just read some more. I believe the point you were making that i'm too thick headed to grasp was a correct one. Thank you. Attempting to produce smoke from a rocket mass heater would be counter productive to the idea and thus efficiency of the rocket mass heater.

[TheBeak]

I've been looking at these. I've been reading here:

http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp

Apparently getting them to pass code is an issue. Any thought's on this?

[rawson]

Also the home owner insurance can be an issue. Went through one insurance company because I installed the wood stove myself. Did enough shopping an found a company with a better rate an no issue with the wood stove. Been burning wood for heat for over three decades with no chimney fires or home fires either, must be a lucky streak knock on wood/log. Those rocket stoves are impressive, but it appears you have to keep the combustion box in a constant feed. Got enough wood in my area to load a stove an let her burn.

[rreidnauer]

That's the downside of "rocket stoves." They require almost constant attention, with their small, fast burns. They are energy efficient, but not convenience efficient.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using TapaTalk 2

[loghousenut]

Never used one so I'm no expert but I've always suspected that a masonry rocket stove takes a little bit of "stand around time" as you start it and load it the second time or third time, and then the fourth time, but then you just kinda sit back and enjoy the fact that all that masonry will just keep forking over the heat to the room whether you like it or not. I have to tend my conventional Blaze King stove four or five times per night. I can imagine tending a masonry rocket stove four or five times per night also but it would be close to start up time instead of all evening long as we are watching Justified.

Truth be told, if I were a bachelor (don't laugh, it could happen at any minute) I'd have a masonry rocket stove in the log home. I am not a bachelor and we'll have no more discussion on the matter.

[Timber]

Throw some water on the fire and let er smoke or soak some of the wood

[LogHomeFeverDan]

The rocket stove mass heater operates on the same principle as the masonry heater. One small burn, VERY fast, very high heat, and then you enjoy the thermal mass heat diffusion for hours.

[TheBeak]

The rocket stove mass heater operates on the same principle as the masonry heater. One small burn, VERY fast, very high heat, and then you enjoy the thermal mass heat diffusion for hours.


... but as I understand it, a masonry heater is a little (a lot) easier to get approved through any sort of inspection. (I do understand that a MH is more complicated to build, and they need a heavy duty foundation under them).

[LogHomeFeverDan]

... but as I understand it, a masonry heater is a little (a lot) easier to get approved through any sort of inspection. (I do understand that a MH is more complicated to build, and they need a heavy duty foundation under them).


You are correct! A MH will be mucho easier to get inspection approved as there is an abundance of information on them. Personally I just love the concept of the rocket stove mass heater. May end up building on after all the inspections are done.

[TheBeak]

agreed.

I'm fascinated with the efficiency. Seems with the "radiates heat for hours" nature of the rocket stove, (less so though it seems than the MH, which can apparently hold heat for days) you could do a quick burn with little fuel and heat the place for a few hours/day.

Our goal, along with the obvious of "stay warm" is to not have to cut down every tree on the property to heat the home for a winter.

[rreidnauer]

Efficiency is great, but don't forget the basics. You have to remember, for a certain amount of a certain species of wood, there is only so many BTUs of energy stored in it. You can't burn a quick fire with 50k Btu/hrs (randomly selected number) worth of wood, and expect to coast several days if the house has that much heat loss or more each day.

BTU production must equal BTU consumption.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using TapaTalk 2

[TheBeak]

True. I guess where I am coming from is that if there are (again random) 50 BTU available in a given chunk of wood, I'd like to extract as much of that as possible to heat the home, rather than heating the air above the chimney cap.

[Mosseyme]

My daughter in law comes from Romania and the only heat in Grandmas house is some kind of ceramic heater using the chimney passing back and forth through the ceramic casing but it also only has a small firebox that they use just small pieces of wood for a fast hot fire 2x a day. They heat it up first thing early in the morning and then again before going to bed. Sounds like really just a small armful of what I would call kindling size wood for a regular stove burns up in less than an hour. Radiates heat between burns. You can find them on the net. Just a form of the ceramic heaters I think.

[LogHomeFeverDan]

My daughter in law comes from Romania and the only heat in Grandmas house is some kind of ceramic heater using the chimney passing back and forth through the ceramic casing but it also only has a small firebox that they use just small pieces of wood for a fast hot fire 2x a day. They heat it up first thing early in the morning and then again before going to bed. Sounds like really just a small armful of what I would call kindling size wood for a regular stove burns up in less than an hour. Radiates heat between burns. You can find them on the net. Just a form of the ceramic heaters I think.

Yep Mossey! all the same principle. Small fast fire to heat the "thermal mass" then allow that thermal mass to <in a NUMBER of ways> "diffuse" that heat over a period of time.

I think as we visited when I was there, we'll be more concerned with cooling than heating. I just like the concepts! I'd love to not need grid energy to control our home temperature. I really think I need to get INSIDE a log home in the Carolinas summer. As you know I'm a novice at this stuff, but I'm just contemplating, if we're IN the forest, with a basement, a very tight home, and a bit of breeze, can it be cool enough with venting the near roof air. Again, much to learn!

[Mosseyme]

Brothers little cabin down the valley, even with just 6x6 square logs with the concrete and tile floor stays quite nice in the heat of summer in the downstairs. Upstairs not so much but not well insulated yet. I hope with 12 inches of foam insulation we will get the barrier we need for the cool. Thinking we will put some kind opening vent or window in both end up very high to let that hot air up there out in the evenings so things can cool down over the night. Then we will close everything up through the day until the sun starts to get low. It should hold the cool in pretty well as long as it cools down each night. If worse comes to worse we can run the geny and run the portable ac in the bedroom for a few nights in the hottest times.

[LogHomeFeverDan]

Yeah I'm thinking vents at each end at the peak of the gable walls. With the canopy ya'll will have you should not have a challenge. We may be face with a bit more exposure. I guess that still depends on our build site. I really love ya'lls!! That stream alone will help keep things cooler.

[jrdavis]

For those with counties with codes.... there is this site.
http://www.mha-net.org/
Masonry heaters association. -- updated version of what Mosseyme was talking about in Romania.
I have pics from Russia in the 1990's with homes having those heaters still today.

[LogHomeFeverDan]

I really love the idea of a masonry heater. The rocket stove mass heater is the same principle. I've been thinking of putting our "safe room" directly under the location for either of the "alternative" heaters on the first floor, so the reinforcement would be available. I still want to put bank safe type door on the safe room. Just gotta figure out how to get one on the cheap. It would serve many purposes. Haven't decided yet, and I'm sure I'll change it a number of times.

[oldtrapper]

LHFDan, this is the most "on the cheap" MH I have come across.

http://www.dirtcheapbuilder.com/Home_Building/Masonry_Fireplaces.htm

[LogHomeFeverDan]

LHFDan, this is the most "on the cheap" MH I have come across.

http://www.dirtcheapbuilder.com/Home_Building/Masonry_Fireplaces.htm

TY TY TY Oldtrapper, I've actually been on that site, but I didn't bm it! i like the "size" of that one as well. Gotta figure out how much if any reinforcement of the icf deck I'll need.

[oldtrapper]

LHFDan, here is a link to a first time DIY Masonry Heater project. I think the guy did an amazing job.

https://s3-us4.ixquick-proxy.com/do/show_picture.pl?l=english&cat=pics&c=pf&q=sand+slipform+masonry&h=601&w=800&th=120&tw=160&fn=100_2222.jpg&fs=142.7%20k&el=boss_pics_1&tu=http:%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DH.471759 7429793980%26pid%3D15.1%26H%3D120%26W%3D160&rl=NONE&u=http:%2F%2Fjaredbarnhart.blogspot.com%2F2010%2F1 0%2Fprocess.html&udata=6bfc7e0df0f63d7e93b99853d66f025e&rid=LGLNRLTTRNLP&oiu=http:%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_sIbLv4fEgag%2F TLzxOork-cI%2FAAAAAAAAAYQ%2FQ-EDtMhTa80%2Fs1600%2F100_2222.jpg

[TheBeak]

LHFDan, here is a link to a first time DIY Masonry Heater project. I think the guy did an amazing job.

https://s3-us4.ixquick-proxy.com/do/show_picture.pl?l=english&cat=pics&c=pf&q=sand+slipform+masonry&h=601&w=800&th=120&tw=160&fn=100_2222.jpg&fs=142.7%20k&el=boss_pics_1&tu=http:%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DH.471759 7429793980%26pid%3D15.1%26H%3D120%26W%3D160&rl=NONE&u=http:%2F%2Fjaredbarnhart.blogspot.com%2F2010%2F1 0%2Fprocess.html&udata=6bfc7e0df0f63d7e93b99853d66f025e&rid=LGLNRLTTRNLP&oiu=http:%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_sIbLv4fEgag%2F TLzxOork-cI%2FAAAAAAAAAYQ%2FQ-EDtMhTa80%2Fs1600%2F100_2222.jpg

LOVE this guys project in general. Not log, but awesome none the less. :)

[PeeCee]

I just ordered Elpel's MH DVD. I have his stone house one as well (from when I was on the fence trying to decide what to build.

I ended up building with logs, but I like his approach. I'm looking forward to checking out the video.

[PeeCee]

I got Elpel's DVD and finally had a chance to watch it this morning. It has inspired a few changes to my original plans. Definitely worth watching.

[jrdavis]

PeeCee,

Yes a great read. What changes would you make? I would like to incorporate the standard plan from the book with some of the stuff from MHAnet.com pics.
JD

[Kennit]

Does anyone have a fireplace like this?

http://www.rumford.com/

[PeeCee]

I haven't read the book, so I don't know whether it gives dimensions or any details, but I was originally planning a central location in the house, and Tom's was built along a wall. A 240x70+cm heater in the middle of the 8m wall of my 6x8 meter cabin would be perfect.

I may get in touch with Eric Moshier from the MHA to see if he can help me with some plans.

[oldtrapper]

Eric is a real nice guy.

Be sure to tell him you heard about him from one of the guys that took his class in Grand Marais. ;-{>8

[PeeCee]

Yeah, I told him that in my first email. I really wanted to go to that class. They cancelled the one that I was signed up for.

[eagle]

this is an interesting topic and it brings up a few questions. I haven't seen any post yet of anyone who actually has a masonry heater or a rocket heater, however, I have read up on some. I like the masonry heaters but I'm afraid they just may be too expensive and I would not want to attemp that myself. so my thoughts:
1)I would like wood burning for the main source of heat, however, my wife wants a traditional fireplace to look at. That is a given even though it is in efficient.
2)So I thought maybe a rocket heater in the basement to act similar to radiant floor heat, maybe vents in the floors. Is that an option?
3) how efficient are the fireplace inserts? In conjunction with rocket maybe?
With all being said, we will be gone for months at a time so a propane wall type heater for a "fast" heat when needed is also a given, and for code issues.
I was also interested in how efficient the radiant floor heating is, I am planning a basement so would it need to be on the bottom level or both? But that requires propane as well, not sure how much.
Any thoughts from anyone who has done any of the above?

[rreidnauer]

First off, understand that a rocket stove, in purest sense, is a high maintenance means of heat. It requires near constant attention feeding fuel. Also, you must keep in mind the laws of physics. There are only so many BTUs in a pound of wood, so if you got it in your mind that you can heat your home on a handful of sticks, you had better re-evaluate. A rocket stove simply makes the wood give up it's BTUs faster than a traditional stove no differently than a coal forge with a blower does with coal, hence the impression its more efficient. For home heating, I don't see practicallity in a rocket stove.

A wood stove insert is probably the best option to keep the wife happy and make the amount of heat you seek. Though it takes up floorspace, placing it centrally in the home could give long, moderated heat dispersal once the masonary surround comes up to temperature.

Finally, radiant floor heating. Same as everything else, your home will loose a certain amount of BTUs and must be replaced with an equal amount no matter the type of heating system. So it's a matter of how efficient the heating process is. Electric boiler heat is said to be nearly 100% efficient. There are gas fired "boilers" that run in the high 90% range. Oil-fired water furnaces in the low 80% range, and wood-fired boilers less than 70%. However, one must keep in mind the cost of fuel. If you have wood for free, efficiency means a whole lot less. In my opinion, an outdoor combo wood/oil or wood/gas boiler sized correctly to the home would be a great option if you have free wood. It allows you to switch to the alternate fuel when you are away for extended times, and keeps the dirt and dust that comes with wood burning outside.

[oldtrapper]

As a different point of view, I suspect your wife would love a masonry heater because there is a fireplace component to it. If you can build a log home, you can build a masonry heater. Check this out.

http://jaredbarnhart.blogspot.com/

I took the class at North House and am sure it can be done.

[eagle]

I never thought about the wood boiler option, thanks for the great explanation. I do have free wood, no issue there. Even if I did attempt the masonry heater, I am confident I could learn, I really like the idea of them.most that I have seen have a small burn hole compared to a conventional fireplace and you could only enjoy it for a short time with the quick burns they do. but I think a hybrid could be done. The things we do to keep our spouses happy!! They don't seem to understand all the reasons why we build certain things for certain reasons, they just want pretty. Lots to think about....

[oldtrapper]

Eagle, a damper operated by-pass can be built into a MH to permit the smoke to go up the chimney and operate as an ordinary fireplace.

The size of the fireboxes is designed to optimize the heat in the amount of wood that fits in them.

[Mosseyme]

For the basement option, we used a Sierra free standing wood stove for many years. It was in the basement of our 3 level home. We had it in the furnace room maybe 10'x12'. The floor above was open trusses so the heat went out over the walls. We also had a open 1.5'x3' venting hole in the wall of the stairwell to promote heat up the stairs. We have a central heat pump but we kept the thermo at 58 or so just in case we failed to wake up and feed the stove. The central heat seldom came on. Our home is a stick built home with fairly good insulation. We stopped using the wood heat some years ago due to allergies developed to some of the wood types. We will probably look into the outdoor wood furnace thing because of the allergy issue. If not for the allergies I would be very comfortable with having the wood stove in the basement and would expect it to do an excellent job of heating our log home.

[thoner7]

Eagle, a damper operated by-pass can be built into a MH to permit the smoke to go up the chimney and operate as an ordinary fireplace.

The size of the fireboxes is designed to optimize the heat in the amount of wood that fits in them.

Why couldn't you just add more wood and have another burn? Would/Could it overheat?

And how short are we talking anyways?

[oldtrapper]

Thoner, they really are not designed to be heated continuously. MHs are designed to provide a certain amount of heat. Heater masons do careful evaluations of houses to get the right size and the fire box is sized to match. They even look at the kind of wood used and calculate how many pounds per burn are to be used to optimize performance.

Heater masons pay very close attention to issues of masonry expansion and contraction and I am certain that constant firing would stress these issues - - - as well as perhaps be like turning the thermostat up to 80 for about a day.

I think a typical burn is between one and two hours. Enough, IMO, for a nice social fire.

There are a fair number of youtube clips of MH firings.

[loghousenut]

I'd love to have a big ole masonry rocket stove.

A plain old wood stove is sure cheap, quick, and easy.








I wonder what Skip woulda done.

[oldtrapper]

Too me, a MH is like building your own home. Ya just gotta wanna. ;-{>8

[thoner7]

I'd love to have a big ole masonry rocket stove.

A plain old wood stove is sure cheap, quick, and easy.








I wonder what Skip woulda done.

Take a plain old wood stove and dry stacked a big pile of rocks on top of and around it?

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Finalizing my rocket stove design. This design (tryin2hard on Youtube) expends the heat in the post ignition
chamber and heats w/ the stove and not the exhaust. Supposedly it has a longer than average burn time.
It'll be very large... after the refractory is installed it will be about 9" x 9" x 18" and with the heat exchanger
I'm hoping to bring about 33,000 btu/hr into the structure. The internal heat riser will be long (about 72").
This will make the structure that houses the furnace tall (and expensive). Will keep a running update.

G'pa

[jrdavis]

a click and a click and a click.......
Led me to this interesting set up.

I thought of Rod. ( I mean that as a compliment )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrWtlf_4ny4

[rreidnauer]

Ha! I've already seen that video.