How about Mulch?

[rreidnauer]

OK, here is another pondering that came to me today after driving by a commercial mulch operation. I have heard of mulch piles spontaneously combusting before, if conditions are perfect. I am now wondering just how hot the inside of a mulch pile gets. And this led me to wonder what would happen if there were water circulation lines running through a pile. With a bit of research, I found a pile only 10 feet high can generate enough heat to combust. (again if everything is just right) So now, I'm thinking, "Wow, I was planning on acquiring property where I'll be cutting my own timber, and I sure am going to have a lot of slash left over when I'm done." See where this is going? "Heck, I could get a chipper and make a whole lot of mulch and a big pile, and suck heat right out of it." But who wants a big mulch pile in their yard? "Hmmmmm, maybe I could put it all in a covered pit."

Of course this is all just theory, as I don't know the specifics. I was even considering pumping controled amounts of wastewater onto the whole thing if that would help generate heat. (and if codes would allow it ) (or rather, not prohibit it)

So . . . any thoughts?

[sparky]

Rod, you really need to look into getting cable. You need the distraction. :lol:

[ponyboy]

Here's something similar. Unfortunately the original web page is no more.
I did find a cached version, but it doesn't have the pictures. :(

http://web.archive.org/web/20050212192752/www.newdayschool.org/experiments/greenhse.htm

[gregorama]

Quote for today: "What you need for invention is imagination and a good pile of junk!" or "Why, I have not failed! I now know 1000 ways that it (the light bulb) won't work!" Thomas Edison..

What Rod needs is not cable, but a good pile of junk. Allow me to be the first contributor to this end; I am donating one useless post. 8) Invention is what keeps this forum moving forward.

Keep thinking, Rod; Edison also said "Waste is worse than loss. The time is coming when every person who lays claim to ability will keep the question of waste before him constantly. The scope of thrift is limitless."

Greg the skinflint

[farmercolby]

I get farm show magazine, and in it there was a farmer in the midwest that heated his house by running water lines through a mulch pile and then into his house. They also put contact info for all the different inventions that people come up with. They also put every invention in book form or on cd that you can buy. Its one of my favorite magazines.

I hope that made sense. When it gets late my writing gets lazy.


www.farmshow.com

[rreidnauer]

Why watch TV when my brain is entertaining me so? :wink:

Good find Ponyboy, that's what I was thinking, though slightly smaller than I was considering.

I should have guessed I wasn't the first to think of this. From a few websites (Mother Earth News is a good one) I found that 130-140 is the average temperature green mulch heats up to. Depending on which articles you read, the systems can work anywhere from three weeks to four months without any attention. Nowhere did I read anyone trying to add wastewater to boost temperatures and longevity, not to say that it could or couldn't work.

It's not a bad idea in my mind. Build yourself a big pile in, say, late November, and it could carry you right through the winter.

Hmmmmmmm, I bet green cut hay would really make some heat. :lol: Access to big piles of junk, like on Mythbusters, and I'd be dangerous. :lol:

[Cheam]

Ya, I have seen a composting system that was used to heat a greenhouse in Ontario. They transported waste scraps to thier property including spoiled hay, heated the greenhouse through the winter, then sold the finished compost in the spring.

esentially you are burning the origanic waste very slowly so you should get the same amount of heat out as if you burned it in a stove; but you can use lower quality (cheaper) matirials. thanks for reminding me of this intrigueing idea.

oh, the first season or two it might be a good idea to measure the temprature with termometers because you woulden't want the pile to start burning, that would destroy your pipes.

Rod, could you explain what you are trying to do with the waste water. Are you trying to allow the heat from your shower in the morning to be stored in the pile till you need it later?

[ponyboy]

Hay Rod... er..ah.. I mean Hey Rod, :-)

Maybe you should write to Mythbusters and have them do a show on spontaneous combustion in mulch piles or hay stacks. I've heard of this, but I've never actually seen it.Then maybe you could pick up some tips on how to make the mulch pile hotter.... :shock: :D

[rreidnauer]

Rod, could you explain what you are trying to do with the waste water. Are you trying to allow the heat from your shower in the morning to be stored in the pile till you need it later?

In short, I really don't know. I'm just kicking around ideas outside my range of total understanding. Since I don't have a clear view of what actually occurs during the decomposition of the mulch to generate the heat, I was just wondering if introducing small amounts of effluent to the mound might encourage aerobic bacteria common to septic systems and might increase decomposition, in turn generating more heat. Of course, this is strictly nothing more than a pondering of my mind.

Setting my pile ablaze would be a bad thing though! :lol:

Not a bad idea Ponyboy. I may just do that.

[ChainsawGrandpa]

A guy about 15 miles up the road used to sell bark.
The pile would light itself off every now & then. Same
thing with the mill about one mile farther down the
road. Would light itself off and the fire department
would come out & root around to get all the burning
bark removed.
There was a mulch pile about one mile from me.
It was about the size of a 1000' house. While gathering
some milch I hit a branch with the shovel. I reached in
to pull it out of the way. Hot enough to make me let go
right away!

I have heard that when using hot water exchange it can
be possible to draw off too much heat and stop the
cooking process. True or not I don't know.

I too had planned on a water type outdoor furnace. The
one I saw smoked badly. Also read some disparaging reviews
on the 'net. It was recommended to use sand with water
tubes running through it instead of water. Less smoke, better
use of the fuels, and no chance of rust or corrosion.

-Rick

[ponyboy]

Found a link that works better than the one I posted on Jan/11/06

http://ersson.sustainabilitylane.com/greenhse.htm

And this one too.

http://ersson.sustainabilitylane.com/composti.htm


I guess I should throw in these ones that are from another post.


http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green_Home_Building/1980_May_June/Update_Mother_s_Compost_Heat_Experiments

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Alternative_Energy/1981_July_August/Compost_Heated_Water_

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Homesteading_and_Self_Reliance/1980_September_October/Update_II__Mother_s_Compost_Heater

[Drh0liday]

ok there's a couple of things, firtsly rreidnauer the heat exchange taking place in the pipes, i'm curious, how many btu's do you think that'd generate, and how many would we be robbing with a heat exchanger inside the house. also the controlled wastewater would refresh the bacteria, but i remember something from animal science about changing cattle directly from grass to grain upsetting the bacterial balance in their rumens, this is the same process we're just harvesting the heat instead of the nutrients. i think mixing cow poo would help facilitate this process

also are we removing enough heat to drop the temperature enough to damage the bacteria? (this is the btu thing again) I also remember seeing a dirty jobs episode about sugar cane decomposition where they had to turn the cane every day tokeep it from combusting (we'd be regulating the temperature by robbing the heat) so hopefully we'd control the internal temp enought to prevent combustion but not enough to kill the bacteria. a car radiator should do just fine to pull the heat out ( you can get an electric fan at the automotive store or used at salvage yard)

we could also put this whole thing in a pit in the ground, that'd help insulate the process, but then there's that zoning thing again, also there is the problem of cleaning it back out to get to your pipes and replace old mulch with new. using steel pipes i don't think burning it would hurt the pipes that bad, dunno. thoughts?