Butt and pass round log cabin build

[40acrefarm]

I would completely agree with you on the fact that if this was my house I would not be even thinking about it. At the beginning of my posting I said it was for a 14x16 cabin that we would use occasionally to go sleep in to get away from the norm. There are many log homes that are legitimately decent size but not huge that were built on stones that are still in the same shape that they were built in many years ago. And this is a much smaller cabin not using giant logs like what I see in some of the videos that you posted links for which are in some cases 40 ft long and up to 10,000 lbs with a diameter of 18 to 24 in. The logs I'm using will be 16 to 18 ft long because the entire cabin is only going to be that size inside, completely off grid with no electric or water because my house is a short walk away but I do plan on putting an outhouse first so during the Builder we have somewhere to go. I'm having a hard time telling whether or not you are being sarcastic or getting frustrated with this conversation. Maybe I'm in the wrong place, I'm not sure if my questions that I've asked are being taken as I'm trying to get something for free? If that's the case I thought that what this form was about helping others but maybe it's just strictly for legitimately large log homes that if I were building I would have slowly pay to take the course but being what this is just a small off-grid cabin on our 40 Acre Farm I've built many things in the past including homes so I'm not taking building this lightly and I understand everything has to be compacted but at some point the line has to be drawn as to the cost of it because the trees are free and all I'm cutting down are forked trees which will get blown down in the wind anyways at some point and I'm leaving all the single trunked maple trees standing

[40acrefarm]

These Barn stones held up a Barn that was 40 ft by 30 for approximately 110 years on my family's Farm, so I doubt that a 14x16 cabin is going to make them collapse( they are solid Stone that are 12 in thick by 4 ft long that were ham Chevrolet 120 years ago that I would make proper footings for them to rest on to begin with after I dig down below the frost line

[40acrefarm]

That were hand chiseled, LOL not h a m Chevrolet!

[Ellsworth]

These Barn stones held up a Barn that was 40 ft by 30 for approximately 110 years on my family's Farm, so I doubt that a 14x16 cabin is going to make them collapse( they are solid Stone that are 12 in thick by 4 ft long that were ham Chevrolet 120 years ago that I would make proper footings for them to rest on to begin with after I dig down below the frost line

Sounds like that will probably work. Barn stone was a thing without a definition, so hard to discuss.
The first time I heard about plywood foundations I did not believe it and had to do a lot of research to understand them.

Everything I expressed was just as it reads, but on the internet tone is often not conveyed.
It's a new era, we're exploring paths.

[40acrefarm]

That's all I'm doing is exploring my ability to build something from my own land that is a renewable resource because I have about 30 Acres of maple trees that I currently tap for maple syrup, I don't sell any of it. Just for family use. The cabin on building I will only have cost for a roof whether that be metal or regular shingles and rebar. The windows I got are single pane windows from a house built in 1897 which I know are not up to par with any window that is double pane gas filled but this is a cabin and I want it to be like one with an old wood stove I'm restoring to heat it in the winter if we plan on camping back there

[Ellsworth]

the price might seem steep, and it took me 10 years to finally get around to taking it, but I'll bet I've saved at least $100k due to the ideas contained in the class. "just winging it" with 6,000 - 10,000 lb logs isn't a good life insurance plan.

Tentative deadline:

By the end of January 2025, the LHBA will have a reasonably priced log home building class product for sale, via a simple "click here to purchase" landing / marketing page.
In form/function/content it will likely be largely identical to the past offering.

[40acrefarm]

Tentative deadline:

By the end of January 2025, the LHBA will have a reasonably priced log home building class product for sale, via a simple "click here to purchase" landing / marketing page.
In form/function/content it will likely be largely identical to the past offering.

Sounds good. In the meantime so I can make drawings so I can plan for the future build thought that I've read somewhere that there is a first layer log pattern that I thought was start working in a clockwise pattern laying the larger butt end of the log perpendicular to the next one being a smaller end and then the third log and finally the 4th log. If I'm starting out with a flat level starting floor to build off of what does the pattern look like? Hopefully this makes some kind of sense as to what I'm asking

[40acrefarm]

Sounds good. In the meantime so I can make drawings so I can plan for the future build thought that I've read somewhere that there is a first layer log pattern that I thought was start working in a clockwise pattern laying the larger butt end of the log perpendicular to the next one being a smaller end and then the third log and finally the 4th log. If I'm starting out with a flat level starting floor to build off of what does the pattern look like? Hopefully this makes some kind of sense as to what I'm asking

Never mind, right in the first readable attachment you sent me to begin with shows the pattern, somehow I missed that very first one when viewing it. Disregard my question about log pattern of the first layer

[40acrefarm]

Although now that I'm looking at that it's not how someone in one of the videos described putting the first layer down. In that first clickable link for written descriptions of how people built the guy describes putting both large butt ends together on one corner of the first layer and then creating a mirror image of that layer for the second one so that the corners stay somewhat even in height. Is that the typical way walls are laid out?

[Ellsworth]

You're asking for more than a boat load of nuts and bolts.

About 10x more than you imagine.

I'd suggest you wait 2 months.

[40acrefarm]

You're asking for more than a boat load of nuts and bolts.

About 10x more than you imagine.

I'd suggest you wait 2 months.

I can't post a screenshot of diagram of what I'm talking about in the pictorial drawing.im seriously confused b/ c your willing to share a ton of information but won't confirm with a yes or no as to weather the links information from a person that posted this info is how it should be done?

[Ellsworth]

I can't post a screenshot of diagram of what I'm talking about in the pictorial drawing.im seriously confused b/ c your willing to share a ton of information but won't confirm with a yes or no as to weather the links information from a person that posted this info is how it should be done?

I'm not teaching the class via forum threads.

This forum section wasn't really intended for that.
It was intended more for general questions about the process and specific questions about areas of concerns (i.e. why the heck doesn't it settle?! You guys are lying!).

In 2 months or less there should be a very easy way for the LHBA to assist you. If that's not fast enough, then...

If you watch every youytube video, and read every link here:
https://community.loghomebuilders.or...-links-allowed

And take really good notes, then you can probably figure out enough to make it work asap (figure a month of research and note taking).
There's also that book you ordered.

As Skip Ellsworth used to say, "With the Butt and Pass method, you can screw up almost every other step in the process and still get a solid home in the end."

But I respectfully suggest that in 2 months or less there should be a very easy way for the LHBA to assist you via an online course that lasts approximately 22 hours.
It might be the easiest path for you -- and the least expensive option possible (if only because it will save you money in so many ways).

[40acrefarm]

My intention here is not to pay anything( I'm knowledgeable in building and my father in law is a custom home builder)
My intention was to ask questions like on any other forum to gain enough info on the technique and build a small cabin on our farm( I really appreciate your links posted as that will suffice)

[40acrefarm]

My intention here is not to pay anything( I'm knowledgeable in building and my father in law is a custom home builder)
My intention was to ask questions like on any other forum to gain enough info on the technique and build a small cabin on our farm( I really appreciate your links posted as that will suffice)

I guess it would depend on the cost of the 22-hour online class and how much additional information I would gain compared to what I already know about the process of butt and pass and if it would be worth it

[loghousenut]

If you were my Brother, and wanted to build a LHBA style cabin, I would insist that you take the class before I would help with the build.

This is no idle boast. In the 1980's I paid for my Mother and my Brother to go to Skip's class (now called LHBA class).

As a self proclaimed old timer around here, everyone knows me and a lot of people have slept here in my loft as they shape their head around the possibilities (as well as the impossibilities) of building their own home with their own hands. A couple of times I have invited people over as they were waiting to go to class. I finally put a stop to it until after they have been to class.

LHBA class does not increase anyone's intelligence. It merely provides a level foundation of simple knowledge to work from. Once you are standing on the same level as I am, we'll spend more time having fun with dreams and accomplishments, and less time with the basics and the nomenclature.

You are not seeing most of this forum. It's like a bunch of old Navy buddies (men) telling lies about women. Most of the basics like hair, skin, sweat, and nipple location gets glossed over and then the conversation can get pretty far out. You have great questions, but we want more for you.

You should take the class. I've got nothing to gain but a new friend. I am just a student of the Skip Ellsworth style of building. If you and I had a closer relationship, I'd pay your way.

PS... I'm Ron. Get in touch once you've taken the class. You can spend a night or two at our place here in Sunny southern Oregon.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

[40acrefarm]

I'm not teaching the class via forum threads.

This forum section wasn't really intended for that.
It was intended more for general questions about the process and specific questions about areas of concerns (i.e. why the heck doesn't it settle?! You guys are lying!).

In 2 months or less there should be a very easy way for the LHBA to assist you. If that's not fast enough, then...

If you watch every youytube video, and read every link here:
https://community.loghomebuilders.or...-links-allowed

And take really good notes, then you can probably figure out enough to make it work asap (figure a month of research and note taking).
There's also that book you ordered.

As Skip Ellsworth used to say, "With the Butt and Pass method, you can screw up almost every other step in the process and still get a solid home in the end."

But I respectfully suggest that in 2 months or less there should be a very easy way for the LHBA to assist you via an online course that lasts approximately 22 hours.
It might be the easiest path for you -- and the least expensive option possible (if only because it will save you money in so many ways).

The only way I might even think about taking the online class would be if after you're done with the class if I don't feel like I've gained enough for the cost of the class that the money would be refunded because I believe by everything already shown on here that there's not much left. Now if I were building a legitimate log home I definitely would because there's a lot more on the line. I know how to build something so that it keeps a straight roof line especially especially after seeing how all these support logs work to do that in the system. I have all the logs right where the cabin will be built and a way to keep them up off the ground to dry some until I have the foundation Piers complete. Let me know if you think that if after the course you believe it was not worth it that the amount could be refunded because that's the only true test of it's worth

[Ellsworth]

The only way I might even think about taking the online class would be if after you're done with the class if I don't feel like I've gained enough for the cost of the class that the money would be refunded because I believe by everything already shown on here that there's not much left. Now if I were building a legitimate log home I definitely would because there's a lot more on the line. I know how to build something so that it keeps a straight roof line especially especially after seeing how all these support logs work to do that in the system. I have all the logs right where the cabin will be built and a way to keep them up off the ground to dry some until I have the foundation Piers complete. Let me know if you think that if after the course you believe it was not worth it that the amount could be refunded because that's the only true test of it's worth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh1NRZLpQ1A

You'll surely do great on any path you take.
Of course we'll have a reasonable refund policy.
Generally the class contains enough information of value, that generally relates to life/construction, that even if someone decides not to build a log home at the end, then they are still very satisfied. YMMV.

I checked the stats a while back. From 15 years of in-person classes, 7000 students + and a total of 7* refunds.
They had to mail in their membership cards, I have the stack in front of me.
The ratio went up a little with the online class: less emotional / physical investment before the purchase.

*There are 4 additional cards that did not have refunded written on them that were mixed into the stack of refunds. I do not think the writing protocol was broken, I think those 4 were mistakenly tossed in that file.
One of those has a last name I recognize. I know that the father is still a member and no refunds were issued to the family, so 3 additional cards are technically 'unaccounted' for.
Edited to add: I realized the son's card had a typo, so it was a bad card, not a refund.

Disclaimer: I don't know a thing about Shirken Island, other than what I read on Wikipedia today. I simply liked the peaceful turned around ending to the guys entertaining story.

[Ellsworth]

I know how to build something so that it keeps a straight roof line especially especially after seeing how all these support logs work to do that in the system.

I had a student take the class who was a general contractor iirc from Tennessee.
He never joined the forum after the class.
He called me twice during his build iirc, there may have been a third call that I forget.
Each call was pretty short.

His first call happened when he started, just to let me know he had started.
His second call was during rafters. His question was "Whats the easiest way to level these dang things?" (paraphrased)

The guy finished his build in about 2 years while simultaneously continuing his contractor work afaik.
I do not want to share his name or company name for privacy reasons, it looked a lot like "_______ Builders."
In a state on the east coast with few building codes, cheap land and low, low taxes.

My intention here is not to pay anything( I'm knowledgeable in building and my father in law is a custom home builder)
My intention was to ask questions like on any other forum to gain enough info on the technique and build a small cabin on our farm( I really appreciate your links posted as that will suffice)

Skip had a preference for students who had never picked up a hammer before (Group A) versus construction pros (Group B).
It wasn't personal, or from a place of not liking trade-workers (he had tons of respect for them).

Group A came with no preconceived notions. They are a lot easier to teach.
But they required a lot more after-support due to their lack of experience.

Group B comes with a ton of preconceived notions and are generally hard as heck to teach because of that.
Preexisting knowledge bias making new data more difficult to acquire.
But on the upside they require a lot less after support.

No intention of being condescending or judgemental and there are always exceptions/outliers.
But that really does describe reality. And in reality, each class contained a mix of non-professionals and professional trades people.
Admittedly, instructors like myself can be horrible students because we immediately want to understand everything well enough to fully explain it.
(So I'm in a 'difficult student' category myself)

And fwiw, in the future the LHBA Fee structure will likely look something like this:
Lower class cost.
Small monthly subscription fee for forum access.
LHBA students who joined before a certain date will be grandfathered (no subscription fee).
There will likely be at least 2 or 3 paths to convert a subscription account to no-fee status.

If you intention is to pay nothing, then I have already given you my absolute best advice.

I learned how to mig weld just using youtube and a few welding forums that were free.
Took me a year. I never achieved anything like pro status, but I learned beveling, multi pass, vertical, etc.
Now I'm way out of practice and forgot most of it.

I learned how to build a wood kiln just using Youtube, free online sources. Took me 2 years and a lot of false starts.
I got banned from one free wood-oriented forum just for politely asking a fully detailed question.
Sorta FML people, are like that type stuff, so I learned it all mostly just by watching and reading.

I feel about paywalls as much as the next guy. And I'm not a fan of the new Windows 10 subscription option.
But I have joined this moment in time after a few years of research and study. It's 2024, LHBA is taking the ordinary modern approach (with a few twists).
40acrefarm, you might not be a qualified customer for the LHBA, and that's OK.

Stick around and socialize.
When you need maintenance advice on stain, prep, rot abatement, then we'll be here for you.
All of that will likely be free-access, same for anyone who lives in a kit log home or a notched log home.
But don't expect the class in a thread. It will lead to it causing an issue and likely getting locked.
I do indeed wish you the best on your log home journey, regardless the path you take.

[Shark]

The only way I might even think about taking the online class would be if after you're done with the class if I don't feel like I've gained enough for the cost of the class that the money would be refunded because I believe by everything already shown on here that there's not much left. Now if I were building a legitimate log home I definitely would because there's a lot more on the line. I know how to build something so that it keeps a straight roof line especially especially after seeing how all these support logs work to do that in the system. I have all the logs right where the cabin will be built and a way to keep them up off the ground to dry some until I have the foundation Piers complete. Let me know if you think that if after the course you believe it was not worth it that the amount could be refunded because that's the only true test of it's worth

You sure are asking for a lot of specific info, and it's stuff that's taught in the class that people paid for. Myself included.

My wife and I just finished our second log home.

Free info, go watch u tube etc, and then you'll get about 1/4 of the actual details you need to do anything properly. Then you can mess up the other 3/4 while trying to learn.

jandjloghome.blogspot.com

[40acrefarm]

You sure are asking for a lot of specific info, and it's stuff that's taught in the class that people paid for. Myself included.

My wife and I just finished our second log home.

Free info, go watch u tube etc, and then you'll get about 1/4 of the actual details you need to do anything properly. Then you can mess up the other 3/4 while trying to learn.

jandjloghome.blogspot.com

I'm part of a lot of other forums it never seen one like this. Sorry for asking specific questions but that's how I've learned a lot on other forums. This one's a lot different and I just realized how and why. Seems like a cult to me. Sorry for wasting your guys's time. I'll post pictures of my build and in the future will continue to post pictures of it to prove that you don't need to pay $1,000 or more to be able to build a rustic log cabin. Now if I were to build a legitimately large log home with giant trees and have all the utilities and would be very concerned about making everything exactly precise but this is just an off-grid cabin that is secondary to my home on our farm. Sorry for the confusion and questions

[40acrefarm]

I'm part of a lot of other forums it never seen one like this. Sorry for asking specific questions but that's how I've learned a lot on other forums. This one's a lot different and I just realized how and why. Seems like a cult to me. Sorry for wasting your guys's time. I'll post pictures of my build and in the future will continue to post pictures of it to prove that you don't need to pay $1,000 or more to be able to build a rustic log cabin. Now if I were to build a legitimately
large log home with giant trees and have all the utilities and would be very concerned about making everything exactly precise but this is just an off-grid cabin that is secondary to my home on our farm. Sorry for the confusion and questions

Although after thinking about what I just said that it's like a cult that's not true. I just realized also that people are passionate about the process and have paid good money to gain access which I have not so I get it

[40acrefarm]

I had a student take the class who was a general contractor iirc from Tennessee.
He never joined the forum after the class.
He called me twice during his build iirc, there may have been a third call that I forget.
Each call was pretty short.

His first call happened when he started, just to let me know he had started.
His second call was during rafters. His question was "Whats the easiest way to level these dang things?" (paraphrased)

The guy finished his build in about 2 years while simultaneously continuing his contractor work afaik.
I do not want to share his name or company name for privacy reasons, it looked a lot like "_______ Builders."
In a state on the east coast with few building codes, cheap land and low, low taxes.




Skip had a preference for students who had never picked up a hammer before (Group A) versus construction pros (Group B).


It wasn't personal, or from a place of not liking trade-workers (he had tons of respect for them).

Group A came with no preconceived notions. They are a lot easier to teach.
But they required a lot more after-support due to their lack of experience.

Group B comes with a ton of preconceived notions and are generally hard as heck to teach because of that.
Preexisting knowledge bias making new data more difficult to acquire.
But on the upside they require a lot less after support.

No intention of being condescending or judgemental and there are always exceptions/outliers.
But that really does describe reality. And in reality, each class contained a mix of non-professionals and professional trades people.
Admittedly, instructors like myself can be horrible students because we immediately want to understand everything well enough to fully explain it.
(So I'm in a 'difficult student' category myself)

And fwiw, in the future the LHBA Fee structure will likely look something like this:
Lower class cost.
Small monthly subscription fee for forum access.
LHBA students who joined before a certain date will be grandfathered (no subscription fee).
There will likely be at least 2 or 3 paths to convert a subscription account to no-fee status.

If you intention is to pay nothing, then I have already given you my absolute best advice.

I learned how to mig weld just using youtube and a few welding forums that were free.
Took me a year. I never achieved anything like pro status, but I learned beveling, multi pass, vertical, etc.
Now I'm way out of practice and forgot most of it.

I learned how to build a wood kiln just using Youtube, free online sources. Took me 2 years and a lot of false starts.
I got banned from one free wood-oriented forum just for politely asking a fully detailed question.
Sorta FML people, are like that type stuff, so I learned it all mostly just by watching and reading.

I feel about paywalls as much as the next guy. And I'm not a fan of the new Windows 10 subscription option.
But I have joined this moment in time after a few years of research and study. It's 2024, LHBA is taking the ordinary modern approach (with a few twists).
40acrefarm, you might not be a qualified customer for the LHBA, and that's OK.

Stick around and socialize.
When you need maintenance advice on stain, prep, rot abatement, then we'll be here for you.
All of that will likely be free-access, same for anyone who lives in a kit log home or a notched log home.
But don't expect the class in a thread. It will lead to it causing an issue and likely getting locked.
I do indeed wish you the best on your log home journey, regardless the path you take.

I'm sure he did prefer someone that had no experience of ever picking up a hammer because they would need the most help in this process and get the most out of the $1,000 Plus Class compared to someone that had built things before and understands the importance of foundation and building techniques that help shed water

[Ellsworth]

I'll post pictures of my build and in the future will continue to post pictures of it to prove that you don't need to pay $1,000 or more to be able to build a rustic log cabin.

I already said you didn't.

And explained there was going to be a lower price than what was our last in-person class cost of $995.

There's no proof required, other people are doing it (and have done it).

But now I'm just nitpicking.

I read recently that for maximum health people are supposed to treat weekends like they are 'on vacation.'
I'm pondering what that means.

[Ellsworth]

Seems like a cult to me.

That is a very old accusation.

The students who participate on the forum have paid a one time lifetime membership fee for joining the LHBA.

In the future that seems likely to change to a subscription model. But now that you bring it up, for cult reasons perhaps it'll stay a one time fee.
That's a joke but also... sort of not a joke.

NXIVM was a cult.
Charles Mason's "family" was a cult.

Every family could be considered a cult.
Likewise society itself, because of the constructs that are passed on via Enculturation to children born into a specific society (and Acculturation to those who immigrate into a society).
All Cargo Cults are Social Cults, welcome to being a Homo sapien sapien with some Meta awareness of the experience.

But the fact is, the label is an insulting accusation.

We're not a cult.

You said you had no intention of being a customer.
I pointed out what is likely every publicly available, free source of information so you can do it yourself without spending a dime on the education process.

I can end this adventure with a smile.

[40acrefarm]

Honestly I've been asking these questions without even putting the importance of the others that have paid the money to go through the class. I am on many other forums relating to many hobbies of mine including woodworking and others and what I was getting at is that this one is unique compared to any other one because none of the other ones had a paid class involved. It's mostly just a bunch of old guys on there that have the knowledge of fixing old things and helping others learn about old ways and old Productions of things