Battery Alternative

**PapaJoe** · 10-04-2006, 02:39 PM

Check this out Goombas ... http://www.activepower.com/ ... as we all know, you pick up a 1950 text book and you can find all there is to know about valve regulated and flooded batteries ... they require constant attention, testing, and maintenance, and they are about as environmentally freindy as nuclear waste ... enter the FLYWHEEL ... we have one of these working in a Philadelphia hospital ... nice ... a flywheel of substansial mass spins in a vacuum chamber filled with oil reducing friction ... NASA uses these to store the energy from orbiting satellites solar panels ... here on Earth just change the oil and filter for maintenance ... I see a definite future for these puppies! ... Ride Free ... -Papa Joe

**dbtoo** · 10-04-2006, 03:35 PM

I'm originally from Philly. Which hospital? (Rod, can you go down there and check it out for us? Try to 'pick up' a sample. Thanks. )

What weight oil does NASA use to keep it from freezing?

**PapaJoe** · 10-04-2006, 08:56 PM

Access to power rooms (especially since 911) is not as easy as you may think. Certifications, backround checks, and clearance from building engineers and security are just a few of the hoops one must jump through to gain access, then there is that litle thing called "Purpose of Visit" to consider. I will be in Philly the 1st and 3rd weeks of December doing my semi-annual testing and inspections of Nuclear Plants such as Peachbottom, the Conowingo Hydroelectric Generating Plant, and 42 other Sub-stations, Generating Plants, Microwave Towers, and Switch Gear and Control Centers. The first week I usually stay at the Best Western accross from The King of Prussia Mall. I would love to meet up with Rod then if possible. I will also see if I can get Rod into a few sites as a "visitor" if he would want to do that. He will need to wear FR clothing, a hard hat, safety glasses, non-conductive composite-toe boots, and be willing to submit to a background check (soc sec #, 2 picture ID's, and a valid drivers license), also he will have to watch a brief safety video before entrance is granted (usually just a half-hour long). I am certified for Nuclear, Military, Telco, Banking, Hospitals, and Public Utility power room access, and I had to jump through more hoops than a French Poodle at the circus, over a period of several years for those ID Badges, that being said, I will agree to try. It's early enough to submit paperwork because I'm now in the middle of scheduling my site-visits for Philly now. Let me know if this is something you want to pursue. As you have probably guessed by now, I'm a road-warrior, have been for the past 30 years, and Philly is one of my favorite cities, you just can't beat a REAL Philly Cheesesteak With (for you Goombas that have never been to Philly that means "with onions" ... Heaven on Earth!!! -Ride Free, -Papa Joe

**jeffro** · 10-05-2006, 03:59 AM

I didn't know there was an "h" on the end, I thought to save even more time, you said "wit" :wink:

Jeff

**dbtoo** · 10-05-2006, 05:51 AM

:shock: Stop it! You're making me delerious for a real Pat's Philly Cheese Steak!
My neigbor goes to philly a couple of times a year and brings back a suitcase full of TandyCakes. You can find them out here, but not very popular.

**rreidnauer** · 10-05-2006, 10:28 AM

I'm going for three subject's in this post, so be ready for the shifts. :roll:

For the flywheel energy storage device, what's the oil for? Since it's on magnetic bearings and running in a (near) vaccuum, I don't see the need for oil there. I can then only assume the oil is for cooling of the stator itself, much like that of transformers on telephone poles. How long does it take for one of these to spin down without a load on them. I believe I read that the biggest they got will handle 40Kw for 2 minutes. What kind of duration can be extracted at lower demands? Say perhaps 0.5 Kw.

KERCHUNK!! Shifting

The offer to be invited to tour some of those facilities sounds interesting. I doubt I'd ever be able to put to practical use anything I may learn, but it would be very interesting to see what few ever do. Two picture IDs, eh? Hmmm, well, I guess I can get another before then. :lol: Seriously, sad but true, but I got but only one PID. I needed to update my CCW license anyhow. :lol:

BRAAAAAAPP CLUNK!

I too wouldn't mind getting away from the pathetic world of lead acid batteries. Though, a flywheel system wasn't what I had in mind. Rather, I was thinking something a bit more antique than that. Like a bank of Nickle-Iron batteries (also known as Edison batteries) from the pre-1930's

They are pretty much indestructable, and can do what would kill a lead-acid battery many times over. You can fully discharge them, let 'em sit for 30 years, and as long as they didn't freeze and split the cases, can be recharged and used again with little if any signs of diminished output. They are also built of much safer materials, and don't have the same operating characteristics like that of lead-acid batteries. Also, they'd probably be the last set of batteries you'd ever have to buy. They do have some minor down sides to them. A bit more "watering" maintenance, and mild self-discharging characteristics lowers your efficiency a bit. Also they require occasional over-charging, (but I guess so do lead-acids, known as equalizing) but is done to increase their discharge rate.

Getting them is tough though. Thet're out there, just waiting to be found. There's a (very) few folks over on Otherpower who have been lucky enough to acquire them and have very good results bringing them back to life. There is a China based manufacturer who makes them, but the price is pretty high. A 1000 Ah set for a 12 volt system will cost over $5000, and double that for a 24 volt system. (such as I plan on) But, I guess if you never have to buy batteries again, that's not so bad. But, I'll keep looking for that lucky bunch of cells collecting dust in the basement or garage of someone's home. Not sure if they were commonly used in commercial/industrial applications back then, but I'd assume they were.

Hmmmmm, ever come across them PapaJoe?

**ponyboy** · 10-05-2006, 03:07 PM

I'd still like to use one of these instead of a battery. :D

http://www.vrbpower.com/technology/index.html

**rreidnauer** · 10-06-2006, 03:10 AM

Yes Ponyboy, you're quite right. I had forgotten about them. I wonder how long until that technology makes it into the marketplace.

I've read where they want to apply it to electric vehicles. Then, this way, when you need to recharge on the road, you'd pull into a station, where your exhausted electrolyte is drained, and refilled with new fluid in a matter of minutes. This would be by far they greatest hurdle solved for electric vehicles being implemented. That duration and recharging inconvienience has probably been the biggest holdup for people to make the changeover. Most people just don't like to be inconvienienced.

Just look how well received the hybrids were when the people found out they didn't have to worry about running out of juice. Now onto the next step....

**PapaJoe** · 10-06-2006, 05:02 AM

Rod ... as for batteries in electric cars ... Lithium seems to be the front-runner right now ... check out this site http://www.teslamotors.com/ for the complete specs on their "0 to 60 in around 4secs" roadster that will go 250 miles on a charge, gets the equivalent of 135 mpg, all at a cost of about a penny a mile. No pipe-dream here Goombas, this baby is for sale right now, the Chicago area already has a dealer and they are taking orders, same for New York and Miami, with more cities to follow. Unlike the ugly-duckling electric cars I've driven in the Florida Keys these actually pretty good. -Ride Free (or as close to it as you can) Take Risks, and Enjoy Life, -Papa Joe

**rreidnauer** · 10-06-2006, 05:34 AM

Yea, I've visited that website a couple weeks ago. Price tag- $100,000

I can't see that being conducive to the promotion of electric vehicles. Cripes, it's just a car. True, it's a sportscar, but I can build a couple skip style homes with that kind of money! No, the prices are going to, no....MUST be competitive with traditional vehicles, if they are to become the accepted norm.