Solar system Upgrade

[Kola]

That's how I woulda handled it.

Sent from my LGL83BL using Tapatalk

That's friggin crazy t'ain't it ??? BTW, the Outback Forum suggested that lil rebooty thing. Credits to Them.

[rreidnauer]

Yes, I mean the Mate.

31 volts is bad. 28.8 max. The batteries probably have over volt protection on the built in BMS, but still should be avoided. You might need to reduce your charge controller max voltage settings a couple tenths of a volt.

I attached a typical voltage curve image. You can see how different they behave, compared to lead-acid, and how it makes it difficult to determine actual capacity used. Something that records amp-hours in and out of the batteries, will give a much idea of what's going on.

As for the noise being gone, maybe the inverter wasn't running on all eight cylinders the first time?

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

[Kola]

It happened again yesterday but this time voltage spiked to 37 ! Inverter shut down. Dammit. I lowered my charge level this morning. Sun is just poppin over the Peak. I'll sit here and babysit it. This Mate gizmo-thing is not at all helpful other than spitting out a high voltage error. Yeah,no shit. 37v high. Oh thanks.

I'm working with Outback. They say it may be batteries or inverter. Oh OK.

Trimetric is on my list. I'm losing patience. Setting up my other 2 solar systems in the past were painless, plug and play.

As far as the noise issue goes? Who knows? The ex-mechanic in me says that wasn't a good thing - and may return -or it did some damage elsewhere. I'm shopping for another inverter, seriously.

Rod, any recommendations on a 24v inverter 2000-2500w that can be hardwired in? If I can find something else I'll just swap them out and see what happens. I paid 2k for the Outback FXR.

[loghousenut]

Just Rod? What about the rest of us? Is our advice just s bunch of chopped liver?

Hey, I'm the one that retrospectively solved your inverter noise issue in the first place! I feel slighted and if Bo were awake and sober, he would feel that I've been slighted too. Bo is a Marine and you know you don't want to get a Marine feeling all chapped in the cheeks... even an elderly Marine.

Kola, I think you should ask all of us equally which inverter would be right for you.


PS... I love chopped liver and don't feel maligned a bit by your hinted comparison.

Sent from my LGL83BL using Tapatalk

[rreidnauer]

Yeah, I'm actually the worst person to recommend an inverter of that size. I've just been utilizing little baby inverters here and there.

The CC output voltage must be set wrong. It's the only thing that will allow the voltage to increase, as you haven't yet tied in a genny to the inverter/charger function.

Either the batteries don't have overvoltage protection built into the BMS, OR more likely, they are disconnecting and then open circuit panel voltage is hitting the inverter, triggering it to shut down.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

[Kola]

Rod, so far I have things stabilized.

When it hits my new set charge setting, it goes to float. I lowered it from BB rec of 28.8 to 28.0. I have been sitting here babysitting monitoring volages at different components waiting for the spike. so far so good. Fingers crossed.

So now OB is telling me "OH, you need the "Hub" and and the "FNDC" controllers to have a fully integrated system."

WTF !!! are you kidding me? I buy a OB inverter, alte store says..oh you need to buy the Mate3s to run it. I was like..OH, OK.

Now I find out I need two more OB components to make this inverter run to have a "FULLY INTEGRATED SYSTEM." And they're saying because I chose lithium ion batts that I need all these doo-hickies ! Well alright then, lesson learned I guess.

Friggin Crazy town I tell ya ! To top it off, this damn Mate POS thing does nothing for me at all.

It woulda' been nice if OB and their sales peeps would say "If you buy this inverter and run lithium batts - you also need this and this and that and that."

Blame goes on me - for being totally ignorant. For now I'll try and set this up with what I got. I'm not investing more cash into OB, that's for damn sure.

[Kola]

Now wheres my friggin beer?? Ooops, the plumber just arrived, I gotta lend a hand. BBL.

##w.jpg

[Kola]

Just Rod? What about the rest of us? Is our advice just s bunch of chopped liver?

Hey, I'm the one that retrospectively solved your inverter noise issue in the first place! I feel slighted and if Bo were awake and sober, he would feel that I've been slighted too. Bo is a Marine and you know you don't want to get a Marine feeling all chapped in the cheeks... even an elderly Marine.

Kola, I think you should ask all of us equally which inverter would be right for you.


PS... I love chopped liver and don't feel maligned a bit by your hinted comparison.

Sent from my LGL83BL using Tapatalk

LOL, I'm sorry, I missed your post too ! Oooooopsy.

OK. Which inverter? Or maybe should I go back to lead acid batteries ?

I'm open to anything if I can't tame this beast.

[loghousenut]

LOL, I'm sorry, I missed your post too ! Oooooopsy.

OK. Which inverter? Or maybe should I go back to lead acid batteries ?

I'm open to anything if I can't tame this beast.

I am really the wrong guy to ask on this one, but thanks for asking. Maybe Rod will know.






That was kinda fun, wasn't it.

[Kola]

lol. you goober..lol

[donjuedo]

Kola, I've gotten kind of lost about where this high voltage is. I do know that panels in very cold temps put out the highest DC voltage they're ever going to put out.

When the charge controller is converting solar panel DC to battery DC, it puts a load on the panels and that pulls down the panel voltage. Is your alarm only happening when the batteries are topped off (no more load on the panels)?

[Kola]

Yes, my Outback FM80 will give warning errors at around 140 volts ( I forget the exact number)- andt it did happen on a super cold day with my old system. I then re-wired my solar array and tweaked her down a bit..

But with this new system, I don't know EXACTLY when it happened other than it being around peak hours of CO sun. Interesting that you mention the load pull from my panels - because they normally come into my controller at 65-70 volts (full sun). But I've noticed at mid day the incoming volts drop to 50-55 volts ( still in full sun and that reading is from my controller) I was kinda scratching my head on that. But for the last 2 days (since I lowered my controller charge/bulk rate from 28.8 to 28.0) I've not had any high volt spikes. And yes I still see that panel volt drop (from 70 to 55) at mid day but all seems to be well. So far.

What I have seen in the last 2 days is that the sun comes up and batt voltage is approx 26. In about 2-3 hours the batt volts are at 28. I have my absorb time for 4 hours ( the recommendation by Battle Born) but it absorbs for about 15-30 minutes then goes straight to Float. From there it may drop a bit, cycle to rebulk/charge and then back to Float. Most of the day it seems happy in Float which is 27.2v (BB's recommendation for Float and Rest) I may tweak the absorb time down to 2 hours ad see what happens.

[rreidnauer]

The panel voltages you're seeing are meaningless with an MPPT controller. Only when compared to the amperage does the voltage become relevant. (multiplying the two values to ascertain wattage)

When discussing electricity, I like to compare it to water, as most people will understand the function more clearly. So, an MPPT controller is just an amperage gate. Think of it like a dam for a small pond. Water level is you voltage, how much water flows out the dam is your amperage. If the dam gates are fully closed, the water (voltage) fills up behind the dam. If the dam gates are fully open, the water drains all out leaving none to flow. If we set the gate just right, we find a perfect balance between maintaining a water level, while getting the most flow down the stream. And this is what the controller is doing. Finding that balance to achieve maximum wattage. Voltages are going to dance around while conditions change. And those conditions aren't just the environmental ones. State of charge of the batteries also affects this balance.

Back to the water analogy. Let's say the battery is a small town down stream, that has a water tower. As that water tower approaches full, and depending on how much water the townspeople are using from the water tower, the flow into the water tower needs to be modulated by the dam gates. And this too is what the controller is doing.

So fear not. Your system is functioning properly. Also, the reason you are going into float so quickly, is that your battery bank is simply not large enough to accept four hours of bulk charging. Setting it to two hours will not alter results. There's nothing wrong with the system going to float early. I think setting a cap on bulk time, is more a protection measure to reduce internal overheating of the batteries under heavy charge loading. Seems none of us ever have the problem of too many batteries, for this to ever be a factor.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

[Kola]

Thanks for that Rod !

I run pellet stove through the night (ahh.. no more feeding the woodstove 3-4 times a night) In morning batt volts are ~26.0. Nice

So I am safe to assume that I have plenty of power right now (in excess actually) and could easily run more things. I was thinking 12v electric hot water tank and a TV. Maybe a oil radiator too.

[rreidnauer]

LOL, pretty sure the oil radiator is out.

I would not say "safe to assume excess power" is available. Again, with the flat voltage curve for state of charge, going by voltage reading in the morning doesn't really confirm much.

Would be best to use your Kill-o-watt meter, to see how many watt-hours your pellet stove uses in a 24 hour period, but I can make some assumptions since you said it typically draws 300~600 watts. I'll go right down the middle, at 450 watts.
》 So 450 times 24 hours is 10,800 watt-hours (10.8 KwHr)
》 Converting watt-hours to battery amp-hours, 10,800 divided by average bank voltage of 26.5v equals 407.5 amp-hours.
Since you have two 100ah strings of batteries in your bank, for a total of 200 amp-hours, I'd say you don't have excess. Of course, it appears you're not running that wattage continuously, otherwise you would be out of battery halfway through the day.
Run the Kill-o-watt for 24 hrs, and report back on the watt-hours recorded.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

[Kola]

Ignore the first one (volt reading) loading and deleting pics on this site sucks !

On low here's the 2 numbers that cycle back about every 5 seconds o the pelly. It's on this setting almost all the time , maybe 85% of the time ~40-70w (much lower than what I stated before, I think that was my old clunker pellet stove.

I'll see what it reads on start up when the igniter fires up ad what watts is uses when blower is in high --tomorrow.

And once again another odd way that the pics appear. smh.

[Kola]

I give up loading pics on here ! Now it says "I've reached my quotas." ??

With blower on high and auger on high it cycles from 90 to 104w.

[loghousenut]

Considering that you abandoned the "world" to cut firewood for a living... well, I wish you would just get a woodstove and use the solar stuff for lights and computer.

This technical stuff is driving me even more nuts.

Sent from my LGL83BL using Tapatalk

[Kola]

I have a wood stove too !

OK, for start up the pelly uses 450w, I may do that twice a day. muhahahha, love the pelly and the modern world. But I am a raving lunatic still.

[loghousenut]

So Kola, now that the modern world has replaced your wood stove, are you gonna get one of those Traeger pellet barBQ things and use it as a cook stove in the kitchen like the wood cook stove Gramaw had?




Sent from my LGL83BL using Tapatalk

[Kola]

Still have my woody, best heat, IMO. My buddy has a Traeger pelly smoker, thing is badazz. Si amigo. Up early today gotta see one of those modern dentists...lost my pliers.

[Kola]

Abandoning the world and living bare bones and supporting myself was a great trial run for me. I was laughed at and ridiculed. And I still get the sarcastic shit-talkers poking fun at me. Now that I've fined tuned things from those primitive days and know I can handle things- I'm all set. The timing was perfect.

So yes it appears the time has come. Maybe this is what was needed for us silly humans. Good luck everyone.

[Kola]

For those following the solar set up I have:

I reconfigured my battery bank and went back to a 12v system. Why? Using the OB 24v inverter seems to cause issues and I don't have time to play around - being middle of winter and this corona thing going on. I wired the 4 batts for 12v and installed my old standby 300watt Morningstar 12v inverter which is a little workhorse ...AND quiet. With the lithium batteries I still can run my pellet stove for upteen hours without worry. That 24v OB POS inverter is too damn noisy anyway.

[Kola]

Picture maybe? Nope. Cant load from phone, says its tooo big. Smh.

[misplayed-hand]

To resize images I use this: https://resizeimage.net/

[Kola]

with 4 lithium batteries you can get rolling for approx $10k (batts, controller, inverter, panels and the small stuff, cables, connectors, breakers, etc)