Little House, Big House

[spiralsands]

Gas prices have started to restrict my day trips to Winterwood. I used to go there to just wander and think about things. But it's costing 60 bucks a round trip to the property. That's starting to feel like air fare! I've been dealing with this frustration over the past couple of months and now am certainly needing a shelter on site.

So I visited the Countryplans.com (a website that I read a lot) and for 55 bucks, less than the cost of a round trip, ordered a set of plans for 3 little houses. I originally thought I would build a little log house but the issue still remained that I have to stay on site to build the bridge to get to logs. (Cascading problems....) So the Little House plans are now in the mail, flying their way from WA to NY and I have already starting shopping for materials for my conventional build.

People have suggested that I put a travel trailer out there and believe me, I have looked for one. But all I see are pricey rust buckets that would probably fall apart on those hills during the tow. For much less money I can build Little House and it will be brand new.

I didn't realize that deciding to go ahead and build Little House and actually ordering the plans would relieve the growing anxiety I was feeling about ever getting onto the property and building the Big House. I was increasingly fretting that I would never get out there. Having Little House will now allow me to wake up less than 200 feet from where the back of the Big House will be.

I'm pretty excited about it!

[blane]

Good plan! You could put up a little house in no time and it will also give you a good place for breaks. You could build one yourself for less than a camper I would guess, then after you have the log home done you could have a small rental or some extra space for visitors. You will be able to get more work done just by being on site. We found our property with a single wide already on site and decided to live in it while we build to save rent and travel and it was a good choice. We are building 30' away from my bed.

[BenB]

Smart, real real smart IMO.
Looking to do similar if we get the property we want this week. Gas has been running me $350-$390 RT to the area and it's killing me. I can leave the truck there and run an economy car back-forth for less than $100 so it's now a no-brainer.
Had this old book on building your dream cabin in the woods for years now ....so gonna do just that. Build a simple Alaskan Trapper Style, 16-18' x20' or so and be done. It can be a bunk house, shop or whatever in future but gets me to the point I can move ahead. Outhouse, no water, simple open floor plan. And if I have a change of heart on whatever it's cheaper than a trailer too - my materials will be under $1900 plus cement for posts and the tubes...so well under $2500 anyway. I can hardly pay the plates, taxes, insurance to have a trailer on road to get it there, and the title transfer on an ugly stinkin' rust bucket for that around here.
Gas soaring like it is - this may the wave of the future and give people a more easy build scenario that they may be comfortable with.
(((and a chance to take the class somewhere besides Vegas in the future. ? lol )))

[spiralsands]

"my materials will be under $1900 plus cement for posts and the tubes...so well under $2500 anyway..."

Ben, the plans for the little house I'm getting don't even require me to be mixing any cement. Even easier. The foundations are pier blocks and posts on pavers. According to the website, they don't even have to be leveled. The beams that are on top of them are leveled.

In these plans there are 3 sizes of little house. I may build the smallest one with a flat roof first. Stay in it and then build the biggest one with a loft for longer term living. Then I could use the little one for tool storage. (Or my daughter...Actually, if my daughter wants me to build a little one for her, I could ask her to cough up some money. Really. At what age do kids just stop expecting freebies from parents? Rhetorical question....I know the answer....sadly... I just never imagined I'd still be feeding her when she was in her twenties.)

[BenB]

I'd love to just go with pier blocks but it won't work for me as the area has in past had 300" of snow and gets possibly wet in a freeze-thaw year so I want it up a bit.
Where are you building? I had a flat roof once on a cabin in northern MN and the doggone thing didn't like the snow loads to much. I had to fight leaks all the time and it started to sag so I sensed disaster and ripped it off and put up truss system. If you can get away with a flat roof and membrane - saves a lot of money and labor for sure. Or even a 3/12 slope and a 2 piece peel and stick membrane is slick. I've done a few of those in past with friends and they seem to last very well.
The parent-child thing has really changed in last 5-7 years hasn't it!
I know of quite a few families that "expanded" back to yesteryear too. Economy and other factors really changing it all.
Keep me posted on the one you build - I am big fan of that site too. Some cool things have been built using their plans

[loghousenut]

Any kind of structure helps. To pay for my logs I agreed to thin 50 acres that were 2-1/2 hours from home. For several months that fall and winter I spent 4 nights per week over at that property, working my days off while spending 40 hours pretending to work at my job. I built a little camping hut out of the firewood that was not worth hauling home, and it kept me comfy with 10" of snow on top. It had a warm bed, woodstove, campstove, kitchen stuff, and junk carpet on the ground. I even had a portable DVD player that I could run from a car battery. Usually I'd get there at 2:00 am after working all day. Made it so easy to get up early, whip out a hot meal and fire up the saw for a day of real work. I don't know how you folks who commute to your build site get anything accomplished.

You, of course, are civilized and looking for something more domestic that will be a permanent addition to your homesite. It'll make such a difference in your life.


http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/Our%20Home/The%20hut/13Thetreewiththepinkribbonwillbethe.jpg

[jrdavis]

Spiral

I like the LHN cabin.
You can get plans and even some cordword stuff form www.motherearthnews.com

I don't think that I'd like to live WITH LHN in that cabin, but it would be a nice cabin awaiting the BIG brother to be built.

[spiralsands]

I love that cordwood look! I thought about doing a shed like that at my present house. I have a lot of standing dead trees on the front of my property that would be good to use.

In '07 and '09, my daughter and I came up from FL and camped caveman style (no RV) on the property. If a leaking tent, rained-out campfire, wet propane stove that won't light and 40 degrees in June doesn't make you want a nice warm dry roof over your head, you're nuts! Ever check into a hotel when you were soaked with mud and shivering? We did. So we decided NO MORE CAMPING!!

@Ben, we get a lot of snow up here too. My property is in the Adirondack Mountain foothills in NY. I don't intend to use the little house during the winter because once the snow falls, I'd have to snowshoe in (until I get a driveway). The flat roof actually does have a pitch to it. The plans call for use of a triple header (I think it's triple) on the front so the roof is pitched to the back just enough for rain runoff. I built a shed roof before but this has less pitch. If I modify the roof to a more steep pitch, I could put a loft bed up there. But I'm trying to do it simple and fast this time. As far as snow load, the littlest house is going to be only 10x14. Not too much.

The bigger little house is going to be 240 sq feet and will have a loft. I think I could bring power and water to that one. I could be in it for awhile because I'm building alone and I get sidetracked by taking on too much.

[rreidnauer]

Yep, best plan is living on site. Saves tons of time and money.

[spiralsands]

634

This is the foundation, piers and posts.

[Tom Featherstone]

"my materials will be under $1900 plus cement for posts and the tubes...so well under $2500 anyway..."

Ben, the plans for the little house I'm getting don't even require me to be mixing any cement. Even easier. The foundations are pier blocks and posts on pavers. According to the website, they don't even have to be leveled. The beams that are on top of them are leveled.

In these plans there are 3 sizes of little house. I may build the smallest one with a flat roof first. Stay in it and then build the biggest one with a loft for longer term living. Then I could use the little one for tool storage. (Or my daughter...Actually, if my daughter wants me to build a little one for her, I could ask her to cough up some money. Really. At what age do kids just stop expecting freebies from parents? Rhetorical question....I know the answer....sadly... I just never imagined I'd still be feeding her when she was in her twenties.)

Frances,
Congratulations on moving forward to get to "Winterwood" sooner. Living where you wish to build is probably the most important thing through all this anyways. It will give you the opportunity to wake up there everyday and to start enjoying that part of your dream sooner.

The only thing I'll add to your little house idea is to at least put a slight pitch on the roof even a 2/12 pitch. I've had very good luck with shed roofs here with a min 2/12 in the UP they seem to collect very little of the snow we get and the wind blows off the rest. Flat roofs up here seem to load up with snow as those that have valleys and dormers on them. I wouldn't skimp on the roof support just in case but you're not building a big place anyway so a few extra 2x6/8's no big deal.

To have the chance to live at the place where you wish to build is hugh in the whole process. There are many things about the place we build that most only find out after you live there. Once you build your place if you were off by 10' to give you the best view in the house.. pretty hard to move that. Some folks this is already figured out for, by dimensions of their property. As an example being here the last two winters I payed close attention to the drainage and runoff of the snow and where I plowed to this year and the changes I'll make next year.

I would encourage anyone to move to their property before you build by whatever means possible for those looking to build your home. The benefit of one reason is living there why not start enjoying that part sooner it pays great dividends along the way. We ended up here sooner than and not how we planned. But Linda would echo this statement that "It has been a Blessing" our build will happen when it does.

Get to Winterwood asap you'll be saying later I wish I'd done it sooner!

[BenB]

Any kind of structure helps. To pay for my logs I agreed to thin 50 acres that were 2-1/2 hours from home. For several months that fall and winter I spent 4 nights per week over at that property, working my days off while spending 40 hours pretending to work at my job. I built a little camping hut out of the firewood that was not worth hauling home, and it kept me comfy with 10" of snow on top. It had a warm bed, woodstove, campstove, kitchen stuff, and junk carpet on the ground. I even had a portable DVD player that I could run from a car battery. Usually I'd get there at 2:00 am after working all day. Made it so easy to get up early, whip out a hot meal and fire up the saw for a day of real work. I don't know how you folks who commute to your build site get anything accomplished.

You, of course, are civilized and looking for something more domestic that will be a permanent addition to your homesite. It'll make such a difference in your life.


http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/Our%20Home/The%20hut/13Thetreewiththepinkribbonwillbethe.jpg

Truly a CLASSIC there LHN .... still there I hope. Part of the story lore ...... really thinking outside the box on this one. Love it

[Blondie]

Francis,

I am building a 30ft diameter yurt for about 2K. Plus a deck for about 1K. It will be insulated with one inch bubble wrap, a couple of layers for warmth. It will be 700sq feet. The roof can be easily supported to take a heavy snow load. It is not rocket science!

It is easy to transport and easily set up. I am building it in the tiny yard of my condo and will transport it almost 500 miles, to my lot and set it up. No, it will not fit in my VW bug. But it will fit in a borrowed pickup.

I have been using info from Laurelnest Yurts to build it. I would be happy to share their info, if you wish it.

Blondie

[BenB]

.
In '07 and '09, my daughter and I came up from FL and camped caveman style (no RV) on the property. If a leaking tent, rained-out campfire, wet propane stove that won't light and 40 degrees in June doesn't make you want a nice warm dry roof over your head, you're nuts! Ever check into a hotel when you were soaked with mud and shivering? We did. So we decided NO MORE CAMPING!! .

Few years back we spent a lot of the summer up in Voyageurs National Park living on the islands on Kab and Rainy Lake(s). Many leaky nights - then the big one showed up. We saw it coming from maybe 15 miles away and all he!! broke loose.. we tied up to a shoreline and prayed. Thankfully I have a bigger boat ... when we finally able to get back to the camp trees were done, the fly gone(didn't notice at first as we dashed to tent) and opened the zipper...bet it had a hundred gallons of water in it. We should have caught the bowed sides I guess as we ran to it but it was about 4:30am and we exhausted.
So we waited out the next round that hit huddled together under trees.
We called it a day/trip and summer that morning. When we got to the Park Service area were truck/trailer was they all asked if we were ok. Turns out there was a tornado that was bouncing around all around us and even turned a 1800s era cabin around almost 180....the storm was so incredible we couldn't hear each other from 4' so I imagine the twister was part of the noise.
That was the 3rd twister we have in while camping or on the water and this one totally freaked us out. Don't remember the date but they called it the worst storm in 100 years - and down towards the TC's it was hot. That was the same day that Corey Stringer of the Vikings collapsed and died...we learned that at the Ranger station too.
Our camping days have been less and less since then. I miss it (camping) but I don't miss the storms

[blane]

are the piers something you can buy or do you pour them yourself? And, are there codes for building one of these?
634

This is the foundation, piers and posts.

[blane]

LHN, how did you seal that structure up from wind?

[mario kadu]

Blondie - or anyone else who might know,

Is a yurt considered a tent? ….or is it a more permanent structure?

I was going to ask this question later this summer once we had completed the May ‘12 Memorial weekend class and we are on the wonderfully mysterious ‘other side.’ Actually I will probably ask it again, especially to see if anyone has built using the LHBA process in the same county. ……… Anyway … our land is located in El Dorado County CA which, because of it’s zoning (R-20), allows unlimited camping on your own land. We plan on putting a 5th wheel on the property to live in while we build. However, my lovely bride of nearly 35 years is convinced that at some point in a small trailer and during a long winter that I will take on an uncanny resemblance to Jack Nicholson in ‘The Shining.’ … thus a little extra living space might be nice.

An alternative we have considered is to obtain a junker/clunker RV and tow/drive it to the property to give us that little extra room. They are plentiful and cheap around here

Heeeeere’s mario

[spiralsands]

are the piers something you can buy or do you pour them yourself? And, are there codes for building one of these?

You can buy the piers. This pic was from the builder's narrative about her own 14X24 build which was very unique. She wanted it very high. At this point in the pic she wasn't yet done putting the rest of the beams and cross beams on.

Here's another pic further along: 635

[blane]

Francis,
That looks like it would be so easy to do. I bet you could have it done with an easy chair kicked back in the living space in about a month.

[edkemper]

I still think a 14x14 shed will be our first structure. We can live in it while building the house. But need to get a shipping container to house family belongings, supplies and equipment first.

[Gomer]

You can buy the piers. This pic was from the builder's narrative about her own 14X24 build which was very unique. She wanted it very high. At this point in the pic she wasn't yet done putting the rest of the beams and cross beams on.

Here's another pic further along: 635

like the idea - and bet you could slap this up pretty fast, especially if you use a generator to fire a nail gun or 2.
That site looks like it has many nice small cabins that could be adaptable short and long term. Good luck on the journey here, I believe you are solid in the thought process in the way you are going about it.

[Lawnmower]

I came across Countryplans.com a while ago and was thinking of doing the same thing. In addition to being an interim dwelling while I built the log home, it could eventually be a guest house (I was thinking of the 12x18, 14x24, or a 20x20 A-frame that I saw in Mother Earth News). Plus it would force me to learn framing. I'd be interested in reading your updates. Good luck!

[Peach1956]

I still think a 14x14 shed will be our first structure. We can live in it while building the house. But need to get a shipping container to house family belongings, supplies and equipment first. When you go select your Con-ex (shipping container)... Go on a bright sunny day. Get inside and close the door tight. Then look all around for holes and pin holes... if you see some... that's a good indication the metal on the roof is getting pretty thin. these will always leak unless you weld steel plate over it. then cover it with mobile home roof coat. You would probably be better off to keep shopping and find a better one.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________________
It Is No Measure Of Health To Be Well Adjusted To A Profoundly Sick Society... Steve Peachey

[ivanshayka]

You can build 10x14 or 14x14 log shed first. Or eve cordwood structure. It may or may not be cheaper. The best reason for suggesting log structure is for practice, and eventualy it will match your house. Stick built may be much faster. Just my .02$.
Ivan

[ivanshayka]

You can build 10x14 or 14x14 log shed first. Or eve cordwood structure. It may or may not be cheaper. The best reason for suggesting log structure is for practice, and eventualy it will match your house. Stick built may be much faster. Just my .02$.
Ivan

[spiralsands]

You can build 10x14 or 14x14 log shed first. Or eve cordwood structure. It may or may not be cheaper. The best reason for suggesting log structure is for practice, and eventualy it will match your house. Stick built may be much faster. Just my .02$.
Ivan

I initially wanted to do it with logs but my property is bisected by water I cannot cross to get to my forest for lots. So a little house, conventional build, gets me there to build a bridge over the stream to get to my logs. I love your little log shed BTW. Very nice work!

[Mosseyme]

We started with an old wornout motorhome we had for years. We built a 10x12 tool shed out of sawmill lumber we bought for $500 for a trailer load. We put a ceiling at 6 1/2 feet and a loft over that. It is on 4x8 PT sitting on concrete blocks. When the weather got so cold we couldn't stay warm in the MH we spent an evening putting insulation in the rafters of the loft and moved in. For a while we slept up there and kept the tools on the main and in the MH. Then we built another tool shed 8x10 and moved the tools all over there and got a deal on parquet and put a floor and cheap paneling in and call it home. We added an indoor built in potty that RV treatment helps make odor free. Then a couple years later added a 8x10 deck then later still made it 10x15 and covered it with a roof and added a loft for outdoor sleeping in the warmer weather. We have a propane wall heater in the shack that easily over heats, a propane 3 burner on the outdoor kitchen counter made from 2x12 anlong with some shelves for water, cooler, ect. A couple years ago I was in Lowes and saw a custom porcelen enamal sink in a box in the clearance area $285 with a chip on the corner, got it for $35, so now I have a nice sink in the deck as well, hooked up a hose from the creek to the faucet, pour a little clorine in it for dishes and we are good to go. Just this month we have added an actual shower room to the back of the tool shed and when my son-in-law finishes his hydroelectric generator we may even have warm water. We stay here in those kind of conditions for 2 weeks at a time and love it. {Warm water will be nice} Our shack is closer to LHNs cordwood place than these others, you learn what you can and can't live without when you move into a place like this. We are starting to call this shanty town but it is working for us now and when we get the cabin livable we will likely skid a couple of these to other locals. Most of our friends and family think we are nuts and wonder why we will leave our nicely heated and airconditioned home to come live like this. What can I say? For us folks that are in our 50s and 60s it is very important to get to the enviorment we want to be in sooner than later. I have said it before but again it is more about the surounding space than it is the log house, that will be icing but the shack is doable for the privilege of being where I want to be.

[spiralsands]

@Mossey I understand. There was a few times in my life I lived hand to mouth in a stripped down life. Then, somewhere along the line, I got a good job, had a daughter, made a nice home, had friends with nice homes. I have a very nice home in the suburbs right now. I also have a very big mortgage I will never pay off. I own my land outright. I worry about living out there without the din of the city nearby, I worry about loneliness sometimes, but I also want the stars and the quiet. I have a very good friend who is very confused about what I am doing. Building like a nut so far away from everyone. Your last line really says it all.

[loghousenut]

You two Gals remind me of me.

I suppose in a weird way you both really remind me more of Bo.






There's always counseling.

[Tom Featherstone]

Nicely put Mossy! Frances? Miss the din of the city? The last thing I miss is the constant noise at any hour. Yes most of our friends and family think we're nuts and are the first ones to freakout when the power goes out.. OMG how can a person survive even a few hours with the tv off. If somewhere in your heart you feel something special about being at Winterwood it's leading you there. You won't have time for lonely your day will be filled with all the wonders that await you there, besides all the things that can easily fill your time. You might find a whole new bunch of friends once you're there as you start mingling within the area. You might find that the people of the country have much bigger hearts than their homes. Change is the only constant why not embrace it and enjoy what blessings it has to offer.

I think that most that are drawn here are for what a "log home" represents. Seeking a simpler life and that connection with nature to be close to it. It's something deep inside us that calls out to come home.

[BenB]

Ordered the plans for the 3 small houses and the 20x30 ..... may as well have options available I am thinking.
I just flipped over my Planner Pad to yet another new week .... which is getting to be something that seems to come up faster and faster as I get older.
Time is money is also opportunity ..... getting anxious to move along

[spiralsands]

Ben, I received my plans on Saturday for the Little Houses. What's really cool about this package is that at the end of the instructions, it has a drawing of how all 3 of the little houses can be attached to make one house.

Also, after reading the plans, I'm probably going to have to go ahead and use sonotubes after all. Frost heave and all. The soil up there is sandy loam and clay. Like the plans says, "Good for gardening, bad for foundation."

Now that I have plans in hand I have to decide which to build. I gotta stop relying on that damn Magic 8 ball for those tough decisions!!

[BoFuller]

You two Gals remind me of me.

I suppose in a weird way you both really remind me more of Bo.

There's always counseling.

I resemble that remark!

[BenB]

:) So you use that Magic ball too huh!

I didn't realize they had as much in the plans as it seems they do. Nice and cheap and sounds to be pretty thorough. I'm pretty excited about this and anxiously awaiting the arrival of them. Looks like they were quick in getting to you.

Let me know here or in a PM if you prefer what one you decide on. If they can be added to simply by design/plan it might be go as small as need be to get a roof up and then take the time to expand from there maybe?

Thanks for update on this and getting me to get my butt in gear in the first place with a nudge.

Ben

[spiralsands]

Updates anyone?

I decided to build the 14 x 24 little house with a flat pitched roof to keep the costs down. Because of the pitch of the small patch of land I'll be putting it on piers and posts. I started clearing the corner with my brush cutter last weekend and decided to try to find someone to brush hog the whole front 6 acres. So, I figured I'd call the guy I hired last year. I paid him 30 bucks an hour and he took 8 hours with a 4 foot mower to cut the front 6 acres. I paid him in cash. This year he wants 50 bucks an hour. Oy. No go then.

Geez, I know there's inflation but WOW.

So, I got a week off and I'm going to try to put in my foundation structure. One question though...When did plywood get so damn expensive!!!

[Gary W]

I'm confused, no worries my normal state. I see mentioned above a 20' x 30', a 14' x 24' and three little house plans that connect. I have never seen these on the Mechanical Transfer site. Am I looking in the wrong place?

[spiralsands]

Sorry Gary, those aren't LHBA plans. Those are plans that were purchased through another site to build interim shelters to live in while we are building. Some people buy used campers. Some people buy Amish sheds. I'm building my shelter from those plans I got at CountryPlans.

[Gary W]

Well that explains it. My wife has ruled out a tent even if I went with a yurt so maybe I will give those plans a look and see what they have. Thanks for the information.

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Be careful with the Little House or you could end-up like me;

Neighbors: "What are your plans?"

Me: "I want to put all our stuff in a couple of CONEX containers and build a log home."

Neighbors: Oooooh... we wish you wouldn't do that. We just don't want to see containers." (They could see them from that distance?)

Me: Not a problem, (knowing it would be quick, cheap, and easy) I'll build a small, cute storage shed, then build the house."

That was seven years ago. The storage shed went from about 16x16 to 16x26. Then in ground piers. Then a second floor. Then insulation. Then oak floors, curved glass block wall, copper & glass water fall, and projection TV.

I forgot that it was a storage shed.

G'pa

[spiralsands]

Lemme ask you...do you build the house first and then build the crapper of do you build the crapper first and then build the house? I gotta know before I go to the lumber yard tomorrow.

[BoFuller]

Lemme ask you...do you build the house first and then build the crapper of do you build the crapper first and then build the house? I gotta know before I go to the lumber yard tomorrow.

Depends. Technically either one is right.

[loghousenut]

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/outhouse.jpg

[spiralsands]

I know it's not as hot up in the Adirondack foothills as it is in some (most!) parts of the country right now but today I almost had my brains boil over. There's no shade on that front field and the motivation to get my roof up so I could get out of the sun is driving me on. Finished up the brush cutting on the construction site and trimmed a little more brush from the top of the hill overlooking the pond. All that brush clearing I did around the pond last year? It just looks like it all grew back!

Staked out my rectangular footprint and started to dig where one of the footings and piers will go to see what the soil is like down there. I was about 2 feet down and still had loam with light clay. I may have to use gravel down there after all. Plus, the plans tell of a way to insulate the ground around the footings to keep it from freezing during winter if you can't find the best base. It will require more digging though. I don't mind digging but I hate the hell out of heat stroke. I'm working alone right now so I have to be careful. Luckily, my daughter will be able to come out with me on Monday and she's a great worker. She jokes around that with all her higher education she is still not well employed but at least she'll know how to do construction. I have her mixing my cement when I need it.

Frances

[rawson]

[QUOTE=BoFuller;75423]Depends.

"Depends", well one can use those in as an outhouse alternative these days, but for new construction I'd go with the restroom facilities.

[BoFuller]

[QUOTE=BoFuller;75423]Depends.

"Depends", well one can use those in as an outhouse alternative these days, but for new construction I'd go with the restroom facilities.

That's good. I like that.

[BoFuller]

You can always rent a porta-potty.

[BenB]

I know it's not as hot up in the Adirondack foothills as it is in some (most!) parts of the country right now but today I almost had my brains boil over.

Frances

Around here the brains just get toasted or is it roasted?
Only 92 but the humidity is up there...we never used to see this kind of weather for extended periods. Things sure have changed.
I've started clearing area but really unsure yet if I am building the Vic cottage, the Builder's Cottage and maybe the whole Enchilada even in time, for guests or maybe I'll just call it a day if I like it enough when I it done. I bought 3 different sets of plans as I am vascilliating on it all. I suspect is I go larger it has a chance to become the "permanent' place and I also still desire a log home, all things equal. I'd be doing a log right now if that class thing ever worked out for me to get to it.

I'll pop you off pics when I get the post and pier foundation and floor deck on. I don't get a chance to post here often anymore so it may be several weeks ahead ... if it gets hotter even longer as I am sick of it
Which one are you building for your temp? You may have posted it above and I missed it... my brains toasted, remember. :D

Ben

[spiralsands]

I had a hard time deciding which one to do too. I was going to start with the smallest one and then build the bigger one. Instead I decided to build the 14 x 24 and a composting toilet behind it. Because my daughter will be out here with me occasionally I needed the extra room. I also decided to do it with a flat rolled roof to keep the cost down and to speed it up a little. I want a dried in shelter before fall. I guess to make a decision you have to come to a point where all your priorities are clear, then the choice sort of becomes obvious.

Well, it's 7AM. I better hit the road if I want a little morning coolness to work by. In 90 minutes I will reek of DEET and sunscreen.

Frances

[greenthumb]

Hey Frances! I didn't see any mention of it in this thread, check out www.tinyhouseblog.com for more ideas on building small. There are guys who specialize in building and designing these, such as tumbleweed homes.

Also check out Texas Tiny Houses, and the Small House Society. (can't recall the url's off the top of my head... )

[exsailor]

Frances,
I read in a small cabin forum. Most of their recreational cabins built and discussed are the size you are considering. As far as the "facilities" go most use an outhouse or a form of composting. The initial deposit is in a container of choice. The waste is then covered with peat moss, sawdust or other material. Here is the link that discusses the subject and provides a link to download the reference called "humnure". This might solve your problem. Good luck on your tiny house build.

[exsailor]

Frances,
I read in a small cabin forum. Most of their recreational cabins built and discussed are the size you are considering. As far as the "facilities" go most use an outhouse or a form of composting. The initial deposit is in a container of choice. The waste is then covered with peat moss, sawdust or other material. Here is the link that discusses the subject and provides a link to download the reference called "humnure". This might solve your problem. Good luck on your tiny house build.

Durn, I forgot the link http://www.small-cabin.com/forum/3_15_0.html

[spiralsands]

Hey Frances! I didn't see any mention of it in this thread, check out www.tinyhouseblog.com for more ideas on building small. There are guys who specialize in building and designing these, such as tumbleweed homes.

Also check out Texas Tiny Houses, and the Small House Society. (can't recall the url's off the top of my head... )

I saw those sites before. I thought it was cool the way they had the plans for one on a trailer that you can tow around and park in different places. They are rather expensive to make though. I don't need anything that finished. I wouldn't want to live in something that small for the long term though. I like having guests!

Frances

[Gomer]

634

This is the foundation, piers and posts.

Frances, without intending to you turned me on. lol
I actually dig these small places and seems simple enough and quick. That one in Alaska on site would fit the bill for me perfectly. Does the plan include the material list or is that seperate order?
suppose I can call them on this and find out too
cool idea and thank ye for it

[spiralsands]

Gomer, I'm not sure which Alaska place you are talking about but I have the Little house plans from Country Plans. It came with the drawings for 3 houses, instructions, advice and a materials list. The materials list does not have the hardware though, like # and size of nails, post and beam saddles. My drawings for the shed I built in FL had those so I had to guess when I was buying nails for this project. I bought 12D nails for the framing. The plans I have give an alternative to the saddles. They say to use 1 x 4 to secure the posts to the beams. My deck at home has that same thing done.

I just came home from Winterwood about 30 mins ago. I'm thinking of renaming the place Elephant Hide because that is how tough it was to break that sod for the 12 footings yesterday. Forget about standing on the shovel to drive it through the sod. I had to do a karate whoop and two footed jump thrust to get through that 4 inch deep, really tight stuff. With the heat beating me up, it took me ALL DAY just to open the sod for those 12 footings.

Today I put in the gravel, sand, paver bases and deck blocks and then restrung my guides to center them for when I get the 4x4 posts in. I meant to quit at noon but even the morning was a scorcher with no breeze so I was slowed down again.

I took pics. Will try to get them up later....after a beer....and a cool shower...... and maybe a little food.....

[exsailor]

Frances,
With sod that tight, a post pole digger would have been easier. You can get more downward thrust by throwing the post hole diggers down into the sod insted of jumping on the shovel. You would have ended up with round holes instead of square ones for the pads. Congratulations for over coming the elephant hide, and getting your footingd dug!

[spiralsands]

780

My footers, not yet lined up and back-filled.

781

My first night visitor as seen by my trail camera.

[Gomer]

Hi Frances - you on your way!
The Alaskan cabin I was referncing was Nevada Mikes 20x30 ... this one if link works. http://countryplans.com/cowan.html
small but mods seemed simple.
hows the heat that way?

[spiralsands]

The 20 x 30 is nice. I've seen pics of log homes that are done like that. I'm going to build a butt and pass log 30 x 30 on my hill overlooking the pond. That's going to be the Big House. I bought the plans for that a few years ago.

The heat here is not really terribly abnormal; 80's to low 90's and we haven't had any storms. I just hate the heat anymore. I just cannot function in it. It's one of the biggest reasons why I left Florida for good.

[sdart]

The heat here is not really terribly abnormal; 80's to low 90's and we haven't had any storms. I just hate the heat anymore. I just cannot function in it. It's one of the biggest reasons why I left Florida for good.
Hear hear!! Also one of the reasons we retired to North Idaho-- even if it does get hot in the day, it ALWAYS cools off at night, unlike many places in the midwest. If you're trying to work outside, hot weather is just not helpful...

[loghousenut]

I feel so sorry for all of you folks who are going through a miserable weather cycle. Storms, heat, humidity, wildfires, power outages... My heart goes out to you.

We, here in southern Oregon, are experiencing lovely weather. Been a fairly mild and moist spring like we routinely enjoyed 40 years ago. Yesterday was perhaps the nicest "poop around and work on cars and do a little blacksmithing and go for a walk and then a nap on the porch" weather I've ever experienced. Frequently we have 100 degree weather on Independence Day but it's looking like it will be mid 80's and clear as a bell all week. It's like Hawaii without the cockroaches.

Please don't think I am taunting you or trying to remind you how miserable you are. Just letting you know that it's not universal suffering. If any of you want to get away from it all, now's the perfect time to see Oregon and northern California.

Have a safe Independence Day

[edkemper]

> now's the perfect time to see Oregon and northern California.

Careful of CA. We're out of money. So we've let loose every black and white car we could find to collect every penny from travelers this weekend. If you're going to visit, please be careful.

[LogSurfer2]

I think that most that are drawn here are for what a "log home" represents. Seeking a simpler life and that connection with nature to be close to it. It's something deep inside us that calls out to come home.

Tom, you just summed it all up with a beautiful bow on top for me....the log home has always been a "distant dream" that the LHBA has turned into an attainable obsession. But the reality is we love nature and always knew we would end up in the woods someday, and the log home is definitely the icing on the cake!

I love the idea of building a little something for practice, and I'm hoping it will be a log shed or garage to live in while we build the "house"....ahhh, can't wait for those days....

PS - Frances, did you get the "bonus" Inclinometer and Solar slide Rule with your purchase?? Sound handy to have; I might have to look into those for our land searching....

[spiralsands]

PS - Frances, did you get the "bonus" Inclinometer and Solar slide Rule with your purchase?? Sound handy to have; I might have to look into those for our land searching....

I did. But i don't know how useful they will be for me.

[Gomer]

The heat here is not really terribly abnormal; 80's to low 90's and we haven't had any storms. I just hate the heat anymore. I just cannot function in it. It's one of the biggest reasons why I left Florida for good.

I hear you - I detest heat and more than the heat the humidity. Makes me literally sick sometimes when it lingers for days.
Officially 101 yesterday and dew points in 70s - heat index at 110-114. :eek:

That is disgusting .... and not a leaf moving either. I'll take 10' of snow anyday

[panderson03]

... I'll take 10' of snow anyday

ME TOO !!! :) I so much prefer the extremes of winter than the extremes of summer!!

[spiralsands]

I hear you - I detest heat and more than the heat the humidity. Makes me literally sick sometimes when it lingers for days.
Officially 101 yesterday and dew points in 70s - heat index at 110-114. :eek:

That is disgusting .... and not a leaf moving either. I'll take 10' of snow anyday

Before the National Weather Service installed the Automated Surface Observation System at the Florida airport I worked at, I used to maintain the FAA weather equipment there. One system read the temp/dew point and I had to frequently recalibrated it after it would be damaged by lightning strikes. I remember having to wait for the temp/dew point to stabilize before I could know my adjustments were accurate. On a normal Florida summer day around noon, the temp/dew point always had an exact 10 degree spread. If the temp was 90 the dew point would be 80. The air was so saturated.

Here in CNY, I notice the temp/dew points are more like 20 degrees apart. A drier atmosphere, but still humid. But mornings and evenings are very nice. Down in the 60's. In the 25 years I lived in FL, I saw the normal 6AM temps (when I was out walking my dog) rise from a steady dependable 76 degrees to an astounding 86 degrees in the last 2 years I was there. I'd come back from walking the dog drenched in sweat and the sun wasn't even up for another 2 hours.

I know a lot of people don't believe in climate change...blah blah...Al gore....blah blah...but something really got my attention a couple of months ago. I saw a program where these high level military officers, Navy admirals, generals, were all talking about how the military was developing new equipment and procedures in the face of climate change. They were discussing the locations of Navy bases on coasts that will have rising water levels and about the destabilization of the world political situations because of food and water shortages. So I guess whether some people 'believe' in it or not, apparently the military is already mobilizing for its effects.

That said, I'm not gonna argue with anyone about climate change because it's a hot button issue for some people. All I know is that the heat is kicking my *ss and I'm avoiding going out to work in it anyway I can. Like sitting here yakking on the computer...

[rreidnauer]

The summit of Mt Leconte in TN recorded for the first time ever, a temperature exceeding 80F a few days ago. (81.4 iirc)

I too have no comment on, nor wish to do battle over whether global warming is real/fake, good/bad, but I wouldn't mind milder Winters, longer growing seasons, and additional water released from polar caps.

[John W]

That's why I don't want to build a log home here (San Antonio). Who wants a log home when it's 100+ degrees all summer long? A log home belongs in the snow, IMHO. Apologies to all who have done it differently. Dreaming of the Adirondacks, but at least as far north as Missouri, Tennessee, Kentucky, Carolinas, Virginia, rough line. At least a chance of four seasons.

[spiralsands]

That's why I don't want to build a log home here (San Antonio). Who wants a log home when it's 100+ degrees all summer long? A log home belongs in the snow, IMHO. Apologies to all who have done it differently. Dreaming of the Adirondacks, but at least as far north as Missouri, Tennessee, Kentucky, Carolinas, Virginia, rough line. At least a chance of four seasons.

John, http://www.newyorklandandlakes.com/

[John W]

Thanks, Frances.

[Gomer]

John, http://www.newyorklandandlakes.com/

Beautiful properties for so little !
I always thought NY was so costly with so many fighting for land?

This is by far cheaper than MI, WI and MN pound for pound.
I cannot believe it to be honest .... someone needs to snare this stuff up

[John W]

Gomer, Here's another one I've posted before.

http://www.landsofnewyork.com/new_york/index.cfm

Landsof has a link for every state I've tried.

This is my favorite property on the site. If I had a cool $84K, I'd get this 107 acres. Two waterfalls and creek through it. Even thought about going in with my niece and her husband, split it for the cost of an SUV.

http://www.landsofnewyork.com/land-for-sale/107-acres-in-Saint-Lawrence-County-New-York/id/920883

[Pugsleeplikelog]

I know it's not as hot up in the Adirondack foothills as it is in some (most!) parts of the country right now but today I almost had my brains boil over. There's no shade on that front field and the motivation to get my roof up so I could get out of the sun is driving me on. Finished up the brush cutting on the construction site and trimmed a little more brush from the top of the hill overlooking the pond. All that brush clearing I did around the pond last year? It just looks like it all grew back!

Staked out my rectangular footprint and started to dig where one of the footings and piers will go to see what the soil is like down there. I was about 2 feet down and still had loam with light clay. I may have to use gravel down there after all. Plus, the plans tell of a way to insulate the ground around the footings to keep it from freezing during winter if you can't find the best base. It will require more digging though. I don't mind digging but I hate the hell out of heat stroke. I'm working alone right now so I have to be careful. Luckily, my daughter will be able to come out with me on Monday and she's a great worker. She jokes around that with all her higher education she is still not well employed but at least she'll know how to do construction. I have her mixing my cement when I need it.

Frances

Frances, please use your good judgment and trust your first instinct. My boyfriend Mike has been gone a year on the 28th of July. We were re-roofing. We hired someone, but Mike just had to up on that roof. The temperature was awefully hot, then add the black felt paper, and ...........I just don't want this to happen to anyone.

I certainly didn't appreciate the labor-intensive job that doing a tear-off and reshingle is. I know you on this forum have better ways. I love reading your posts, Frances and hope to continue for a long time to read of your progress. I'm in the dream phase today, thinking of taking the class in September. I have Pugs that need to be looked after, and that's my main concern.

[loghousenut]

Frances, please use your good judgment and trust your first instinct. My boyfriend Mike has been gone a year on the 28th of July. We were re-roofing. We hired someone, but Mike just had to up on that roof. The temperature was awefully hot, then add the black felt paper, and ...........I just don't want this to happen to anyone.

I certainly didn't appreciate the labor-intensive job that doing a tear-off and reshingle is. I know you on this forum have better ways. I love reading your posts, Frances and hope to continue for a long time to read of your progress. I'm in the dream phase today, thinking of taking the class in September. I have Pugs that need to be looked after, and that's my main concern.

Puglover,

It's a brave gal who wants to face life and death in the fashion that you are planning to. The 28th will be a tough anniversary for you but I can think of no better therapy than popping a brandy cork, drawing floor plans, and mailing off a check for class. Wish he was going with you. Building your home without him will be an emotional roller coaster but, if you survive it, you'll appreciate the hurdle being behind you. Therapy takes many forms and the healing always comes from within.

Don't fret the Pugs too much. Just find someone reliable and don't let them escape and return to their home planet.

[Longhare]

Hi Frances - you on your way!
The Alaskan cabin I was referncing was Nevada Mikes 20x30 ... this one if link works. http://countryplans.com/cowan.html
small but mods seemed simple.
hows the heat that way?

Did anyone else notice the awesomely clever table/bench built into the wrap-around porch? I ADORE it! I may just have to copy that idea!

[spiralsands]

Natalie, my daughter and I, cut our posts using a laser level and when we put the beams up, everything was perfectly level. I still can't believe it.

791

792

Learning curves eat up a lot of time though and I didn't get it all totally nailed together because fatigue + heat= not wanting to learn how to use a framing nailer late in the afternoon. Also, my generator really bogged down with the single load of the circular saw. Gotta figure out why that was!

[Gomer]

It's pretty clever and cool.
The more I look at this bugger the more I am digging the whole thing. Fairly easy build too. Not a log home but mighty dang nice:)

[Timberwolf]

Spiralsands,

Looks great! I hope you start a thread topic on Country plans as well. I'm sure the great folks overthere will want to share in your experience too.

[blane]

Good job Francis, This will build your confidence going forward on the cabin as well.

[loghousenut]

Good job Francis, This will build your confidence going forward on the cabin as well.


From what I've seen I don't know that she needs any more confidence. Next thing you know she'll take up bull riding.

[spiralsands]

From what I've seen I don't know that she needs any more confidence. Next thing you know she'll take up bull riding.

AHHH hahahahahahahahaha!!!!! I lived in Texas for about 5 years and have had to spend lots of time in Oklahoma over the last 20 years to have seen enough of bull riding by those young men. Then I got to see the old men, the EX-bullriders and the pain they were always in. Poor guys can hardly stand up. I am definitely NOT a thrill seeker!!!

I am really not over-confident. There is so much I don't know how to do, like operate a framing nailer, get my generator to run well, make straight cuts. I'm afraid of getting hurt, afraid of heights. I've got a lazy streak a mile wide. I hate the heat. I'm afraid my work will look like crap when I'm done. I'm afraid it will never get done! Even I think I'm nuts for doing this. I COULD be sitting at a shady table on the lakefront in a pretty outfit with a proper haircut and sipping a nice glass of wine like every other woman in town who is my age. I could stay in my mortgaged suburban house and spend what's left of my income on just good times like some friends want me to. I could be going to all the music festivals in this area and getting social with new friends for fun fun fun....But NOOOOOO. I drag myself to the hill, sweat like a horse, and struggle through each and every task. I make small gains, take forever and I don't really have too much fun. Every time I think of that log cabin to be it seems like an unattainable fantasy. Seriously, I don't think I can do it. I rationalize and rationalize. But what do I do? I just keep blindly going out there and pounding away at myself trying to make it a reality one small task at a time. I have to keep reminding myself why. I guess I'm just plain STUBBORN.

You people who have support systems in place are so lucky. Luckier than you will ever know. You younger ones have time on your side too. I hope you can appreciate that. I'm no spring chicken and was just diagnosed with a touch of arthritis in my left hip which sidelined me most of last week. The pain isn't bad but it's a crushing disappointment. I've always been so active and it occurred to me that I may not be able to make my last dream come true because of this. If I never ride again I could live with that. But I still wanted to make a sanctuary for a few horses rescued from the meat market auction.

Thank you Blane for your vote of confidence and LHN, thank you too for getting me to voice my fears and for making me laugh.

[loghousenut]

I like the part where you talk about the hip pain and sweating like a horse.









Keep up the good work, Kid. Framing nailers are easy and straight cuts are over rated. As for the generator not running right... Well, that's kinda typical.

[blane]

Francis,

Don't let your fears overcome you and don't forget you have a support system here. We are all rooting for you. I couldn't cut a straight line if my life depended on it but trim will cover up a multitude of sins.

[spiralsands]

In another thread, LHN made a comment about time frames and that he didn't care if he ever finished. I got such a laugh out of that and actually found some comfort in knowing that there is someone who might actually be lazier than me.

I promise not to let fear overcome me. I know that I can always trust this group to steer me straight. I get courage from belonging here. I also get courage from my daughter who offered last night to operate the nailer gun. She, who never ran a drill or used a wratchet. I guess sometimes you get courage to do a task just by preventing someone else from shooting a 12d nail into your foot.

Frances

[Mosseyme]

Frances, get out of the way and let her learn. She will thank you later, or not, but she will have knowledge and experience to try new things even if it scares her. Like you I have learned a lot through the years by just taking a stubborn attitude, sometime a 2 year old I CAN DO IT MYSELF attitude. The first time I ever did anything with wood was when we were stationed at Ft Sill OK in 1973. They had a wood shop on post and I was looking for a hobby. If something isn't right you just fix it or as LHN says make it look like that was how you meant it to be. The look on you face in your picture says it all. You will do it, or not be able to finish it due to outside influence but you will give it your all. I go to the woods and sometimes think I will never live in this log cabin but I will not stop, it is where I feel at home ,log cabin or not, so I just keep on taking a step at a time and you will to but only it that remains your dream.

[Gomer]

Frances;
just spent 3 days battling 90's, mosquitos and deer fly but we got the piers in and when it cures I'll have framing lumber on-site and start the nailing. Reached decision in a dream and going with the 20x30 and may extend to 34' yet - poured extra for either deck or extending it. Attacking this a bit different-not 100% sure what I will be doing for water or septic ahead but will plumb for it. Same for electrical - it'll be wired but whether I ever tie into grid another matter. None of this am I fretting anymore...the more I sat and fretted the more discouraged I was getting so I said the blank with it and jumped in.

These buggers will build pretty fast I suspect or at least the shell will. I want it nice and liveable (dryed in) within the month and then can putz with the rest. Got a lot to decide in months ahead on septic and water and if I am building a log cabin too here in future (???) ---- how to position all to share some resources.

Hang in there and don't fret the small stuff. Grab a hammer, let her use the nailer, and enjoy each nail driven. Well .... kinda enjoy it or at least lie to your brain. lol

[loghousenut]

Lazy?... Or rather stealthily industrious.

It's all about properly managing whatever time I have left.


http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/lazy-guy.jpg









Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off right now!

[Mosseyme]

LHN, when are we going to see some new pictures of all your "laziness". I'm thinking you might be jerking our chain and will one day soon pop up some pictures of one totally completed beutiful log home with the best ridgepole in the country!!!!

[BoFuller]

I haven't been up there to help little Bro, so that ain't likely! :)

[loghousenut]

LHN, when are we going to see some new pictures of all your "laziness". I'm thinking you might be jerking our chain and will one day soon pop up some pictures of one totally completed beutiful log home with the best ridgepole in the country!!!!

I'll meet you halfway.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/lazy-dog.jpg

[exsailor]

Frances,
I have read many of your posts. Until the latest I never had an inkling of your fears. To me You are the epitome of bravery. You face your fears and continue on in your efforts. Soon you will have faced them all down, accomplishing each task you have feared over and over in your small house build and later log home build. By then you will realize you had nothing to be afraid of, just something to be experienced. As far as Framing nailers go, the first time I used them I shot two nails for every time I pulled the trigger or didn't sink them all the way flush. I just smacked one or both of them down flush with a hammer. I do have one word of caution about working in the heat. Be careful once you have a heat stroke or other heat related problem, you are far more susceptible to them in the future. As far as never riding again, you can always take up buggy riding or even racing in those carts with two bicycle wheels!

[blane]

Ever since I shot my son in the finger with a nail gun he has fear of one in my hands:)

[spiralsands]

I spent all Friday feeling sorry for myself, made myself stay in bed late on Saturday morning, and then ended up at Winterwood in the early afternoon after all. All I got done was to rearrange one side of one beam, layering the 10 and 14 foot sections alternately and gluing and clamping them. Didn't have enough clamps to do both beams so Natalie and I set up a patio table with a big 9 foot umbrella and sat in the shade talking about what to do next and studying the generator manual. I gotta bring the generator to the shop to get the carb rebuilt. There's no adjustments on it at all.

Gee, Gomer, if you get dried in in a month, that would be amazing! You must be going like crazy!!

Mossy, I really dropped the ball on teaching my daughter certain things but I consider myself SO LUCKY that she is the kind of young woman who wants to HELP her mother do this stuff. We are both learning a lot as we go along. I had to learn a lot of stuff by necessity but the first time I had a contractor in my FL house to install part of one of my bathrooms, watching him I realized that I already had the skills to do it myself which is why I did the other bathroom alone.

And exsailor, You see all those people who come to the forums and ask the question, "Can this really be done? Do I have the skills?" That is fear talking. Confidence is gained as skills are gained. I HAVE done this before. I built a really nice shed with a tiled roof down in FL 2 years ago. I put in a bunch of windows, laid tile, tiled a bath enclosure, drywalled, did plumbing, electric, sweated copper, SHOOT!! I have all sorts of skills! But this whole project is really so big that I sometimes feel a little overwhelmed at the amount I have to accomplish and I lose sight of the steps, the little steps, I have to take to whittle away at it. I've read a lot of people write that this log home building is the hardest thing you'll ever do but you'll love what you have. Difficulty is emotional as well as physical. Giving up or taking the easy way (building a kit) may be easy for some people but I would feel like I was cheating myself. I'll never forget what my daughter said as we drove away from that log home show disgusted, "I don't want to live in a log "look" home." I signed up for the LHBA class that night.

I plunged into building the little house so I could put the whole project into a step-by-step perspective so it wouldn't seem so daunting. It's the way I cope with the challenge. The same step to build me up is a step to disintegrate one fear. I have to remember that fears are normal and my shortcomings as a carpenter are also pretty normal. Now if I could just get the generator running right I could get back to work! All this navel gazing isn't getting my floor joists on!!

[panderson03]

you go girl!! you can DO it! I just KNOW it!!
I don't know if there are any LHBA folks out there who don't some times wonder if they can really pull it all off. the key is I think in continuing forward progress, then when you finally come to you're senses you realize you CAN DO THIS and are well on your way to 'done'.
hang in there:)

[rreidnauer]

Every marathon is run by taking one step at a time.

[edkemper]

Every marathon is run by taking one step at a time.

True. But the really hard work was getting you ready to do a marathon.

I think, (I haven't started yet) the hard part is getting you to a point where you start laying the logs. By the time you get to staking, you're starving for something to show for your sweat and money. When the logs start going up, the energy seems to return to some degree.

But I could be wrong again, I'm married. <smile> AND so very lucky she said yes.

[Gomer]

Frances:
Had a helper yesterday and today - as long as the drought continues I'll have it sealed up within 4 weeks. Remember - we only talking a 20x34 with a loft. The slow part will be the wiring, plumbing, etc but even that should be pretty fast as it's only a toilet, shower and sink plus kitchen sink.Wiring I have done in past so that should be pretty simple - funny but I may never even hook it up. Better on the front side than after the fact I feel.
Back to solo building for rest of week but building 2 section walls so I can manage to get them up.
Pretty exciting ... but stinking hot hot hot.
You can do it if this ol' codger can ..... and you have more time to get it done using easier pace.
Try and get pics up next week on where its at.

[Deedee]

I spent all Friday feeling sorry for myself, made myself stay in bed late on Saturday morning, and then ended up at Winterwood in the early afternoon after all. All I got done was to rearrange one side of one beam, layering the 10 and 14 foot sections alternately and gluing and clamping them. Didn't have enough clamps to do both beams so Natalie and I set up a patio table with a big 9 foot umbrella and sat in the shade talking about what to do next and studying the generator manual. I gotta bring the generator to the shop to get the carb rebuilt. There's no adjustments on it at all.



Frances you are an absolute inspiration to all women. There are few women who would tackle what you have and that you are doing this with your daughter is amazing. If they do a course on the weekend before Martin Luther King holiday (I was told it hasnt been decided yet) I will be there with bells on and reading your posts makes me want to do it more!

[spiralsands]

I...am a framing nailer DIVA!!

After getting the carb rebuilt on the generator, it ran the compressor beautifully and I was finally able to nail the foundation beam supports on. The thing stills scares me and I almost lost my hearing the first time I pulled the air hose off but it is truly a wonder. The work never even moves before the nail is driven in. Amazing!!!

[rreidnauer]

Having a little fear with them is a good thing. After a long run of bump-nailing, it's all too easy to forget that your finger is still on the trigger, and an unintentional discharge is just an accidental bump away.

But anyhow, good for you! You'll be a pro by the time that tiny home gets wrapped up.

[loghousenut]

Just try to remember that you should leave the nail embedded in your thigh until trained professionals have you properly sedated.

[spiralsands]

Just try to remember that you should leave the nail embedded in your thigh until trained professionals have you properly sedated.

I get the impression that if one of those nails hits your thigh, it ain't gonna stop!

[loghousenut]

Don't worry, it'll stop. And you'll know it's exact location.

[jrdavis]

yep. Usually AFTER it goes thru flesh headed to a bone... its stops either AT the bone or upon entry.

I'm reminded of a 2 inch brad nailer I was using to make a picture frame with.
While holding 2 boards together at the mitred corners, it slipped when I pulled the trigger.
nails from a nailer travel FASTER than the pain upon entry, contact and stoppage. :(
but the boys thought it was kewl that I could pull it out and put it back in the hole!!!

than the pain was horrible.... and the glue caused awful infection.

LHN --'professional removal" -- is for pansies.....so yes. Be careful.

JD

[Timberwolf]

Ugh... Memories of the day the chainsaw slipped.

[edkemper]

Frances,

You are far more than "just" a nailing diva.

Years ago, (I won't share how) I acquired a small .177 jacketed pellet just an inch or 2 above my left knee cap. It didn't bleed but for a moment at the time. Didn't become painful so I ignored it because of embarrassment. Didn't want to admit what happened to my doctor. Now fast forward. In September I'm having both knees replaced. I have been through x-rays and MRIs. Tuesday, getting a CT or MRI so they can build current models of my knees. So each time I go in for each set of pictures, I am expected to explain because of what they see. Now since I'm already gonna have a couple of hands inside my knees, I'm hoping my doc will be able to find it easily and simply remove it for me. Then I won't ever admit to the story again.

It's when you forget that the nailer is a real gun that it can bite you. Please be careful.

[loghousenut]

Like I said... Leave it in until trained professionals have you properly sedated.

[Longhare]

Hello Francis Diva!

Whoo hoo! One more dragon slain, another notch on your belt. Hey, now that you're a pro, you can be like Jim B. When you're working on your roof, you can stand at the highest point and see if you can hit the outhouse with the nailer. Hee hee, fun times.

Seriously Francis, you're an inspiration to me. I look forward to following your progress, baby step or giant leap at a time. I'm sure there will be many of each. Me, I'm more into nano steps, myself. BUT...I had some giant leaps (for my project anyway) in the past week, thanks to Peter. I took a WHOLE week off work (all the planets happened to be in alignment) and Peter came with me for a little over half of it. I have been slowly acquiring little bits and pieces, things like small water tanks (a 275 gallon tote) and some not-quite-dead golf cart batteries for $25 each. We hauled those over to my property in my not-so-trusty beater pickup truck (now THAT is one way I face my fears - I just jump in the front seat of that beast I call Hagrid, and take a deep quivering breath - literally!). Not only did Peter help me set up that tank, get my trailer fridge running again, set up a spiffy setup for the batteries, he also was there to further my truck-ucation. I now actually know how to use my 4X4 (ooh man, 4 low ROCKS on that mountain road for hauling full 55 gallon barrels), and I now even know how to push/roll start my pickup. I had always known it was possible, but never knew how. And I even learned it heading down my lovely, bumpy, (and oh yeah, did I mention steep?) dirt/gravel mountain road.

Thanks again Peter! I feel like I made a year's worth of progress in a few days. Now, a little WiFi and some hot water (not at the same time :p), and I could seriously live in that trailer...

You go, Mama Bear. I can't wait to hear all about it!

Louanne

[spiralsands]

yep. Usually AFTER it goes thru flesh headed to a bone... its stops either AT the bone or upon entry.

I'm reminded of a 2 inch brad nailer I was using to make a picture frame with.
While holding 2 boards together at the mitred corners, it slipped when I pulled the trigger.
nails from a nailer travel FASTER than the pain upon entry, contact and stoppage. :(
but the boys thought it was kewl that I could pull it out and put it back in the hole!!!

than the pain was horrible.... and the glue caused awful infection.

LHN --'professional removal" -- is for pansies.....so yes. Be careful.

JD

Did you know that the nerves that carry your pain messages to the brain are the slowest travelling nerve cells? That little piece of factual trivia is one I can recall from college anatomy class so long ago.

[spiralsands]

Louanne, I call my truck The Blue Beast. It is really LOUD going through those rolling hills and I'm sure that noise puts the fear of God into the sleeping Amish.

Sunday when we were out at the land, I was talking with my daughter about the men in our family. None of them know how to do ANYTHING. My brothers, my cousins, my nephews...none of them have any skills at all. I always had to self teach or was taught by my military experience or any of the men I've worked with over the years. It made me realize how helpless people with no skills are.

I'm glad people, especially women, can see me do this thing and take away a little more confidence in their selves. I've had the advantage of being a sort of 'first woman' in almost every job I've worked and even now, in 2012 when I thought things would be much different, I am still the sole woman in my unit. I had to talk to a bunch of teachers once about my job and what education it takes to do it. I asked them, "Where are the girls?" Isn't anybody teaching them stuff? We have to teach other....that is the lesson I learned from this. You guys teach me. I'm teaching my daughter.

Aiming to get the floor joists on this weekend....just aiming!

Frances

[spiralsands]

Oh, by the way...regarding the safety of the "gun", I realized after a few shots how tempting it is to hold the thing like a gun, like a glue gun, like a caulking gun....finger always on the trigger....so it's a habit I'm trying to develop: Don't keep the finger on the trigger!!!

My gun in single shot mode will not fire unless the tip is pressed on the work. I keep it in single shot mode right now until I get used to handling it the way I feel safe. I'm trying to work a little slower when using it so I don't get complacent when I'm putting it down or picking it up. Like Rod said, it's easy to get 'into the zone' when you're doing repetitious work. Fear and respect....

[Mosseyme]

You go Frances!!!
And do keep the bit of fear in there. I have learned that it is more dangerous in some ways when you become to accustomed to things. So far it has been near misses with the table saw, chain saw, tractor, and bull dozer ect. I have a friend that was under the influence of cold meds and saw a loose wire on the motor of the combine and reached in to plug it back in. The motor was running and there was a fan in front of the motor. Safety first is hard to remember when you are always trying to get just a little more done.

[sdart]

Safety first is hard to remember when you are always trying to get just a little more done.
A very important point! Stop BEFORE you get too tired. Tomorrow is another day to get the job done, as long as you don't kill or maim yourself today.

[spiralsands]

854

855

Got the floor joist together for Little House yesterday. We're ready to finish it but the weather is not cooperating. Maybe by the end of the week.

Frances

[Timberwolf]

Francis,

In response to an earlier post, if you hadn`t intended already, Advantech or EdgeGold (there may be others) subfloor will resist a bunch of rain and weather for a while until you get under roof much better than plywood (and is usually cheaper too!). A coat of (cheap) oil based stain after it`s installed will help a bunch too.

And don`t forget the glue.

You`re doing an awesome job. Keep at `er!

[spiralsands]

Oil based stain! Thanks for the tip. I didn't know about that. I found a lumber yard in the near-by town that is WAY closer than the nearest Lowe's or Home Depot. They are a little cheaper on some things and a little more expensive on others so it all evens out. They do have a tongue and groove floor sheathing like Advantech, different brand but just as costly and they recommended it highly. I like this little lumber yard because they have lots of other stuff too. They do propane, hardware, tools, fire stove pipe, culvert pipe. It's great not having to drive all the way to Herkimer or Amsterdam, NY for choices.

Funny thing was, the guys there mentioned a woman from Florida who was building her own house in Oppenheim. I thought they were talking about me at first but they said she was a teacher and was coming up during the summer. Imagine that...another Florida woman building all by herself right over the hills from me!

Frances

[loghousenut]

854

855

Got the floor joist together for Little House yesterday. We're ready to finish it but the weather is not cooperating. Maybe by the end of the week.

Frances

Hey Frances,

In that second photo, is that your daughter who is walking away from that tall skinny tent? By the way, I've never seen a tent that allows people to sleep standing up. Must be one of those east coast things.


Looks like a fine place to live. Good job!

[rreidnauer]

Funny thing was, the guys there mentioned a woman from Florida who was building her own house in Oppenheim. I thought they were talking about me at first but they said she was a teacher and was coming up during the summer. Imagine that...another Florida woman building all by herself right over the hills from me!

Sounds like there needs to be some introductions being made there! BTW, nice porta-privy. ;)

[spiralsands]

857

858

Finished the subfloor today! Also had a discussion with the curly girl about our future plans. She suggested not building a second even-smaller house for her and we build a separate private space in this little house for each of us. That way we can get to the bridge build and then to Big House a little sooner. So that's what we're going to do!

[greenthumb]

Oh, by the way...regarding the safety of the "gun", I realized after a few shots how tempting it is to hold the thing like a gun, like a glue gun, like a caulking gun....finger always on the trigger....so it's a habit I'm trying to develop: Don't keep the finger on the trigger!!!

Fear and respect....

I'm no expert on air nailers, 'bout the only time I've used one was on the roof at Stewart and Rachel's place(a day I'll never forget). Here's a little bit of truth from firearms/gun control that might carry over though- 'keep yer booger hook off the bang switch!' Don't point a gun at something unless you're ready to kill/destroy it. Don't pull the trigger until you're ready to kill/destroy it. Is there anything between or beyond the thing you're about to kill/destroy that you don't want to hurt?

I can't tell if you're using joist hangers, I hear palm nailers work real well for that, and they are a little less scary. Worth a try, they're cheap enough($25 at Hazard Fraught Tools) and can be used for chinking nails later if you buy the bulk buckets of nails you can sometimes find.

By the way, that's a great looking foundation/floor you've got!

[LogLover]

Looking good Frances --- still working on it or take some down time?

[spiralsands]

I've been busy shopping Craigslist and the Bargain Outlet for doors and windows. I bought a front door and 2 interior doors, prehung, and I have 3 windows, two matching for the front and one for a bunk room. All I need is a backdoor now and I could start my framing. There are so many mis-measured replacement windows on Craigslist. For me though, they are just the right size! All I gotta do is frame for the windows and doors I have! Got my eye on a set of sliders for the back for 298.00. I'm thinking of going to that builder material auction this weekend.

Wish I was moving faster....

[Lawnmower]

Don't get discouraged. I think its fair to say that a bunch of us are rooting for you.

[BenB]

Don't get discouraged. I think its fair to say that a bunch of us are rooting for you.

:D that it is Frances, that it is. You go girl!

[Timberwolf]

I
Wish I was moving faster....

Journey... not the destination.

[spiralsands]

I try to always remind myself of that. I compromised on the sliders and bought a used prehung exterior door with a 9 panel window for the backdoor. Saved myself 200 bucks going this way and am getting back to it sooner. Temperatures are finally dropping and I'm itching to get back out of town. I got a letter from my suburban town government on Saturday telling me that one of my neighbors here on the cul-de-sac reported that my dog was barking INSIDE my house and it was annoying them. That couple never even said a word to me about any problem before they called the authorities. They just always smiled and waved. I always thought I was a very approachable person. Smiling, cheerful. I guess going straight to the authorities about a little problem is their normal culture. Yikes...

[edkemper]

My question is why are they barking inside the house?

[spiralsands]

Why do dogs bark at anything? Sounds, seeing someone outside....

[edkemper]

But it's in the country I thought. It's just hard for me to understand a couple of dogs inside a house being so loud that it'd cause a noise nuisance needing government intervention. Must be some real sweet neighbors. (Sarcasm)

[ncgator]

Frances,

You should ask the town government for a copy of its barking dog ordinance. If they even have an ordinance, it will probably be of the type where they must receive complaints from multiple neighbors to pursue any type of action. Out in the country, those type of ordinances are completely unenforceable. Being annoyed by dog barking is not actionable unless it becomes a nuisance. Too many people that do not like animals will complain even if they only heard the dog bark once and there are more than a few people that I wish I could make a similar complaint about so that they would be quiet:rolleyes:.

That being said, finding common ground/compromise with the neighbors about your dog would be ideal, but is not always possible. We have friends that have a horse farm that have lived there for over 30 years. A developer bought land adjacent to the farm and filed a complaint about the smell (and I am not certain there was any offensive smell and I have worked around horses most of my life) and tried to shut them down by getting their land rezoned. All of their other neighbors turned out at the hearing to support them and asked the developer why his nose didnt work when he looked at the property before he bought it. It was very amusing to watch the members of the zoning board trying to hold back their laughter.

[edkemper]

I don't quite remember but I've read either laws or case law on this subject. Except perhaps in tight city quarters, one can't buy land and then complain about a neighboring pig farm. Like I said, I don't remember enough to help much but in these types of cases, I tend to get creative in my searches to get information. Now that I'm thinking about it, I bought in rural Oregon. It may have even been a local law.

[Gomer]

I don't quite remember but I've read either laws or case law on this subject. Except perhaps in tight city quarters, one can't buy land and then complain about a neighboring pig farm. Like I said, I don't remember enough to help much but in these types of cases, I tend to get creative in my searches to get information. Now that I'm thinking about it, I bought in rural Oregon. It may have even been a local law.

Been issue in WI and MN for years. The "city" folk move into country and demand the old farms get cleaned up.
They move into a small town and start to scream about various businesses being loud, making noise or what I thought to be the all time classic - they demanded a coffee roaster be closed down or another manner used to "remove" the smell from the air. No joke.
It was a Dunn Bros - they ended up putting up a 50-60' exhaust pipe to get it way up there as a compromise. Pretty crazy huh:(:rolleyes:

[John W]

Don't worry Frances, they won't be able to hear the dogs barking over the sound of chainsaws!

[Timberwolf]

Been issue in WI and MN for years. The "city" folk move into country and demand the old farms get cleaned up.
They move into a small town and start to scream about various businesses being loud, making noise or what I thought to be the all time classic - they demanded a coffee roaster be closed down or another manner used to "remove" the smell from the air. No joke.
It was a Dunn Bros - they ended up putting up a 50-60' exhaust pipe to get it way up there as a compromise. Pretty crazy huh:(:rolleyes:

We actually have laws to prevent that sort of thing from happening around here (not that that stops "silly" people from complaining regardless). Neighbour across the street bought their land beside an active railroad and built a house. Then went to a council meeting to try and get them to stop the trains on a NATIONAL railway to stop blowing their whistle and stop making noise... :confused:

I was really glad when I sold that house and moved. :cool:

[spiralsands]

Don't worry Frances, they won't be able to hear the dogs barking over the sound of chainsaws!

That's funny because on the weekends here in surburban Syracuse the lawnmowers go all weekend. And off in the near distance, the sound of traffic on 2 intersecting highways never quiets down even at 3 am. I did check the town dog ordinance and it says if "the dog barks continously for 10 minutes or intermittently over a 30 minute period", it's a violation. It doesn't specify anything else. I wasn't told of multiple complaints and I'm sure it was my immediate next door neighbor because we are isolated at the end of the cul-de-sac. My daughter is home almost everyday since being laid off so we were mystified as to when they were hearing this. I was also angered that the ordinance said that after 4 violations they come and seize the dog. So hold on a second...what said that I was actually guilty of anything? Anonymous hearsay? What is to prove that it was the dog was actually the bother and it wasn't actually the noise or looks of my old truck that isn't irritating them only they can't complain about that? Maybe they don't like me storing my firewood where they can see it. People in these types of neighborhoods can be very snotty and trite. I was stunned to think they could call in anonymous repeat complaints about barking in the house and the town would send someone to seize my dog. I am so ready to be out of here.

I did call the town yesterday afternoon to confirm for sure that building a big old ugly clothesline rack was not a violation of the town code. And now that I have that verification directly from Mr. Town Code Expert, Mr. and Mrs. Daytime Sensitive Ears will be getting an eyeful of all the dirty wet dog towels I plan to hang there. I always wanted an outdoor dog wash rack and now I shall have one, legally! It will give them something to look at out that kitchen window while they eat their dinner.

[edkemper]

Frances,

I can't quite remember, but isn't this America? How are you able to confront an anonymous accuser? The complaint isn't valid. Ask the government for a copy of the complaint. No copy, no valid complaint. I'm guessing your neighbor knows someone. But that someone isn't shooting straight.

[spiralsands]

Frances,

I can't quite remember, but isn't this America? How are you able to confront an anonymous accuser? The complaint isn't valid. Ask the government for a copy of the complaint. No copy, no valid complaint. I'm guessing your neighbor knows someone. But that someone isn't shooting straight.

I don't know Ed. I do plan to find out. It would be just too easy to begin harassing someone if the complaint maker did not have to divulge their name. When I lived in Florida, there was a pervert that lived behind my house on the other side of the fence. He used to expose himself and do other things in the window. When I called the cops, they told me I had to have either 1) a witness or 2) a photo as proof. So I went and fetched my pretty blonde neighbor who was conveniently wearing a short skirt and used her as bait and witness. The perv took the bait, my neighbor saw the show and I finally got two big sheriff's deputies to the house, who also caught the end of the show (much to their disgust). The point is I needed proof and the perv had the right to know who his accuser was. So I WILL be going to the town hall to request a copy of the complaint. I never had to respond to anything like this before. I always thought my neighbors would come knocking on my door first.

[loghousenut]

So that was YOU!!! Now you know why I moved to Oregon. Darned Floridanians are so sensitive!




haaaha

PS... If I'd known you were moving up north I woulda stayed and checked out the new neighbors.

[rawson]

E gads it makes you shake your head. Closest neighbor to me has a Great Pyrenees and being nocturnal by breed that dog barks just to challenge the coyotes at night, does not bother me, I appreciate the security. I know that dog was using my little Shih Tzu for trolling bait, but that dog took on two coyotes in front of my place, that saved that little fur ball. Had my rifle in hand but could not get a clear shot. That little fur ball does not venture out into those DMZ zones anymore either, yes he will bark at anything that is out of place, that earns his keep and all I expect from him plus he don't shed.

Sorry to here there are those out there who would smile and wave then turn coat and turn a person in to whomever for a barking dog in the country in there own home. I'd be tempered to fire up my chainsaw at 4AM or get some roosters.

[bigbambo]

My father was a trustee for many years in ohio. I stopped over one day and he was on the phone rolling his eyes at me and making a coo-coo sign with his finger to his head. They had put up detour signs for a bridge being closed and this city-slicker-implant was chewing his butt because her kids could no longer rollerblade up and down her road due to the increase in traffic.

Now for my whine......most farm fields are turning into 3 to 10 acres lots with 150 feet of frontage. The four-wheelers and dirt bikes will rock your fillings out and the dust for some is beyond. A friend has 4 to 8 riders every day, 10 hours a day, right next to his home. He can't hang laundry outside or open his windows and the law will not help him. But, if your music is to loud you can be arrested and fined.

[DanS]

I know that many people just can't live without the amenities of a city, but these are all of the reasons we bought land where we did.

My nearest neighbor is a 15-20 minute walk from our place, and about 25-30 if you walk from his place (it's uphill). 5-10 minutes by car. If we find just the right opening in the trees we can see his house. That's precisely where we aren't planning on building. ;)

My folks bought property way out in the hills before I was born. Today it's a semi-rural suburb. 35+ years later, they wish they had looked more closely at the lot sizes and realized that eventually it would develop into a standard subdivision. Their saving grace is that they also own a big chunk of land a couple miles away, that is just outside the subdivision. That's where the shop is. We can be as messy and noisy as we please, until whatever hour we want and nobody will ever bother us. For most people this probably isn't a huge deal, but for those of us that maintain a small fleet of vehicles and often end up welding, grinding and banging away until late at night--it's a big deal.

Dan

[BenB]

How did you do at the auction Frances?
There have been many windows around here surfacing, builder's measuring wrong, change orders, etc - best picking I have ever seen on CL. They don't last but a day there but at 30 cents on the dollar people are really snapping them all up and odd sizes seems not to be an issue.
People been getting smarter for the last several years on things. Bites us sometimes when in need but ..... glad someone is scoring buys.
Where are you at in build process? We have done from high 80s to freeze in less than a week. Crazy summer. Pathetic heat and now the bottom falls out.

[spiralsands]

The date of the auction was changed from the weekend to a weekday so I couldn't get out there. But I did buy all my windows and 2 doors locally off CL. I have to say that the price of gas is hindering my traveling up there. I have to be really organized and make it a long day of work to make the gasoline expenditure worth it. One weekend will cost me about 120.00 in gas. I HATE that!! Also, I made a promise to myself to pay for this all out of pocket and then my school taxes came due on the property. All I wanted was to be dried in before it snows. I somehow doubt that's gonna happen....

[BenB]

The gas factor is eating me up too. Tossed in a record , for me anyway, $1044.35 in fuel last week in the 2 trucks. I had a decent income week but when I looked at net it suddenly looked lousy. Something has to give there or we may as well stay home.
I see we have several auctions in N. MN this weekend - maybe I'll saunter to a couple.
Keep the chin up - we may have a late fall yet. Good luck

[mario kadu]

a while back someone on another post sugested the Habitat for Humanity's REstores as a source for widows, doors, bathroom fixtures etc. The web site says there are over 800 in the US and Canada, and I just checked and there are over a dozen in New York State alone. Recently I checked out one in our area and it was really increadable. The had at least a hundred used windows, not to mention counters, cabinets, doors, toilets, sinks. etc... and the prices were pretty decent comparted to new items - the gal in the store told me that every item is donated, some from construction projectleft overs, some from demolition, even Home Depot and Lowes sometimes give them new stuff..... anyway it is worth looking into...

http://www.habitat.org/restores

[Broncology]

Any updates? I just recently bought the "small house plans" and am planning on building the 10x14. After the past six months of trying to clear land on my property for the log cabin (and changing where I was going to put it three times), I have decided that I need a place to sleep on the property in the meantime. With a three hour round trip and only one day trip a week it has hindered me getting as far as I would like. With the small 10x14 it will give me enough room to sleep and keep a few things. I hope to start AND finish the 10x14 country plans "shed" this spring.

[spiralsands]

Not exactly an update, because winter was still pretty deep up in those Adirondack foothills as of last week but things are looking up for spring. My employer, the FAA, sent me to Oklahoma City, where I am now for a 4 week training program. I was supposed to go home then come back again to finally get home for the beginning of June. But "thanks" (I guess) to government mismanagement, all training at the Aeronautical Center is now officially cancelled as of the first week in April due to the sequester. Yes, I will be missing a few days of pay each month but the sequester, for me, has a bit of an upside. First, I get to stay home, not go to the Aero Center, and see the snow melt at Winterwood. Second, I get some mandatory unpaid 3 day weekends to work at the property. Good for me. But then, I need to pay bills and buy lumber for Little House. Smaller paycheck. Oh well.

Here in OKC it went up to 80 degrees today. I forgot already how convenient it is to have summer weather in the winter. I don't want it myself, but it must be convenient!

[sdart]

Glad there is a positive note to it all for you. Sometimes time is worth more than money!

[rocklock]

Things change. We are human and we adapt.
For Example, when gas was 2 bucks a gallon, I could fill up for 30 bucks. I just ignored transportation costs. Now gas is over 4 bucks a gallon in Hawaii. Now I use my motor cycle (44 miles per gallon) or I only drive when I have 3 or more errands that require something more than saddle bags. In Washington, I generally make at least 4 or 5 destination per trip. I actively save up stuff, make a list. So I try to reduce the total transportation costs by doing more on every trip.

If I had to go to work every day I would be screwed. I guess I would try to work a 10 or 12 hour day...

Good luck with that small house. I built my well house out of logs and I learned a bunch.

[spiralsands]

I would have loved to have built the little house of logs but there is a stream between me and the logs and I gotta build a bridge first. The little house is just so I don't have to sleep in a tent all the time. Although it looks like I might have to do that a few times anyway to save on GAS. Gas is hovering around 3.80 in CNY as opposed to 3.30 here in oil rig country. The local papers are all advertising lots of oil field jobs. I guess they're uncapping all those old wells they closed up a few decades back.

[MN Dude]

Hi Spiral - been following this deal of yours and thinking of doing the same. I want a log home for the final home but the Little House concept would make a great guest cabin/house in the future too. And allow me to start the whole process of a permanent log home sooner. Distance to where I want to live (northern MN or MI) is a gas and cash killer. My truck gets 8-9mpg so easily $150-200 a trip, every stinking time. Ridiculous! So if I can locate the right land (on water maybe??!!) I want to start putting up something this summer. These plans are easily something I could do in a month or two. No electrical or well or septic at first, just the structure so I can be onsite to further my plan.

When I get this one built then I can start looking at taking a class for future build. I am putting my home on the market next month here to get out from under that $2500/mo nut that I am sick of cracking month in and month out. For a dang zip code. No thanks. Done with that.
The last pics I have seen of yours here seemed to be the post and piers - did you pretty much call it a season at that point?

Nice site here and good info here on all kinds of things. I have been a long time reader but never had a thing to contribute so I never signed up. Still don't but heck - maybe I have something in another area that may be of benefit to someone.

[rocklock]

I would have loved to have built the little house of logs but there is a stream between me and the logs and I gotta build a bridge first.

I know nothing about building bridges, but I have a stream on my property, along with a 100 foot beaver dam. I have one 20' 12 inch cement pipe going under the road. Some times the road goes under water, but the road bed is mostly rock and is not damaged.

By building a bridge, have you considered laying down several or many cement pipes then covering with crushed rock? I don't know if you need county approval or engineering or what ever, but laying pipe and covering with crushed rock is easy and not overly expensive. If you can aim for 20' pipe then you can get a good 10' road bed.

[spiralsands]

Dave, you mean like a culvert? I wish I could but the stream is only crossable (is that a word?) from one level ground area to the other at one good point and it's 6 feet wide with a two foot vertical bank on each side. Right there the landscape gets a little complicated because of hills and the pond overflow stream that comes into stream I need to cross. The flow rate varies with the season and with rainfall. Natalie and I have seen it just trickling at times and then get a front come in with rain and it'll jump the banks on a few of the curves. You could say I need a little dredging on parts of it. I already checked with the state on the status of the stream and they said it was a Class C which means I don't need a permit to work on it. That was good news. So I have to get it high enough, wide enough and long enough to get over the expected flow at that spot. Sounds like a real project for a non-engineering type to tackle!

[spiralsands]

MN Dude, Welcome. I think a few people here are doing the same thing as I am with the Little House plans. Some people buy a mobile home, travel trailer or have an existing structure on their property that they can use. I even have an Adirondack book that shows a really fine lean-to with amazing amenities like a bath house and masonry grill that a couple used as a residence while they built their home in the mountains. I chose the little house because I've done a small conventional build project on my own already and I'm building alone again. I can get my daughter to help me only on weekends when she is not working. I did finish the floor platform with the insulation and vapor wrap before winter set in and it is presently wrapped in tarps awaiting my return. I'm stuck away from home right now with work so I won't be able to get back to work on it till May. Because of the gas prices I will be forced to set up the 9-man tent again to finish Little House. But this time, I think I will water proof it again. My last camping trip with that tent left us both wet and shivering at the beginning of June in the Adirondacks.

[rocklock]

Dave, you mean like a culvert? I wish I could but the stream is only crossable (is that a word?) from one level ground area to the other at one good point and it's 6 feet wide with a two foot vertical bank on each side.

Yes. But a cement pipe or culvert so that you can make a road bed that can withstand lots of water (lots of broken cement and rocks). It may well be that these floods are so short that they will become a non-issue.

I really like a 20 foot section because its easy to get a good 10 foot section of road bed with lots of vegetation that locks in the soil and rock. But if a ten foot section would be less robust but do able.

Again, I don't know much about this stuff, its' just that I have this stream that others have built and it works really well. I have a 15 acre pond with a 100' beaver dam that is at least 5 feet above the road. There are seeps (very slow springs) that run year around but during Aug, Sept and Oct the evaporation is greater than the input so there is no flow over the dam or through the pipe.

I actually have an eleven second video of my dam falls. Even with this flow is still all goes through the pipe.
http://s154.photobucket.com/user/flintlock1/media/VID_20130131_150846_zps8afb30c5.mp4.html

Good luck - that board is one of my 16 foot 4 by 10's that was cut about 6 years ago.

[Mosseyme]

I'm with Rock,
We have two bridges so far. The first we had to put in because the old logging bridge had rotted out and there was no way to get on down the valley without a bridge. In the interest of time we put in a galvanized 4' culvert then back filled up to it and piled rocks ect on the banks. It is about level with the road on each side until we added about a foot of roadbond on top to disperse the weight of the concrete trucks coming across it. The second is across the spring runoff below the house site and the bed is about 16' wide only a couple feet deep and we built it from 5- 4x8x16' PT lumber placed on concrete filled blocks Then bolted 4x6 PT on top of the beams. It has been there for almost 10 years and last summer we had the tele across it several times {35,000lbs} we did put some blocks under the middle to help keep from to much bending and it pushed them down about 1/2" Neither is the picturesc bridge that I wanted but will do until more important things are accomplished. I am learning [slowly] that I really want to be here permanately before I die and some things have to be put in a different basket.

[loghousenut]

Heck, it's just a road across a creek. Find a way to drive across the rascal and get to building!

[lilbluehonda]

Sometimes it's tough just getting across the drive way when it rains hard
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd206/ragdump/creek_zps6c586f28.jpg

[Log Al]

The water crossings are part of living in God's creation away from population. I use to take my tractor down the road and fix crossings during rainy season to get to work, the milk truck would be waiting on me so he could cross. That was 30 plus years ago. Now I have nice paved streets on same roads with heavy traffic and neighbors who only know where the accelerator peddle and mall are. How I mess those dirt roads and taking care of my own issues. Have a Great Build in Paradise.

[loghousenut]

I have some old friends whose log home was on the "other" side of the Illinois River, here in southern Oregon. They had a low water crossing spot (ford) that they used when they didn't feel the need to boat across. Any good 4x4 truck could make it if a person knew enough to go straight across, then turn down stream, for 40 yards, on the rock shelf in the middle of the river, and then turn left to go straight up the far bank, next to the big ole "PRIVATE" sign.

This was back before cell phones, and their place was 13 miles in on a very rough Forest Service road (goat trail). Several times over the years they have helped winch folks out who decided that "PRIVATE" meant "Come on in". Folks would see the well worn track going into the river and then look downstream and see the well worn track going out of the river, and then draw a beeline straight between the two and straight into 15' of water, all the time thinking that "If they can do it, so can I".

One time it was the tax assessor. They winched him out for free.

[lilbluehonda]

Private and no trespassing signs just don't work much anymore you have to be a little more threatening my sign on my creek crossing says KEEP OUT WHAT EVER THE REASON CROSS THE CREEK GET SHOT,it works most of the time

[Log Al]

OOH LHN the tax assessor could have disappeared. I'm hearing dueling
banjos. LOL I made a mistake one time of being very unhelpful to the tax assessor and I should have of handled that differently. Would have had a much more positive outcome.

[spiralsands]

The folks who used to own this farm crossed this stream several hundred feet downstream from where I want to bridge it. They just ran over it with a big tractor and flatten the area out so now when the waters flow hard, that back field gets really wet. So I have some dredging to do to fix the damage. I want it to be a stream, not a floodplain.

[MN Dude]

I ordered the plans Frances and now am ordering the 1.5 story also. They sure are priced right, arrived super fast, and so I may as well do material list for all to compare costs. Being able to be onsite sure will help the "master plan" come to fruition faster. And save a lot of money that otherwise would be fattening Exxon's pockets even more. :mad: :mad:
You are doing a post and pier I saw - for ease of the build and cost? or other reasons like water issues or such?
I am looking at a 48" frostline so I bet its close to what you have to deal with also. That's a long ways down.....:eek:

[spiralsands]

I'm building Little House on a slope and the way the plans say to put the posts in is easier that way. You level the posts, not the piers. I'm doing it this way because of cost like you said. I'm not building a permanent living structure, just a cozy roof over my head so I can stay out there and get some work done. I did have to make some changes to the material list because the plans don't take into account a snow load (the guy who does them also lives in Washington) so I'll be beefing up the sheathing on the walls and roof. I already purchased my exterior doors and windows and 2 interior doors so my daughter and I have our own cubbies. I was going to build the 14x24 for me with the cooktop and common room and then do a smaller 10x12 for her but she talked me out of it so I could get to the Big House quicker.

Digging those holes out almost killed me because I had to do them myself in the heat. Plus the sod was incredibly thick. Everything seemed to take 3x as long as I had planned. I forget how old I'm getting sometimes!

[BenB]

The 14'x24' is a nice lil' size and perfect for guest place. Heck - may use similar size as a permanent home. Are you thinking steep roof and maybe a small loft too?
I am on that site from time to time but they have a guy there who also shares my name-id so I had to use a different name. Not many Bens out there and I am on every forum that has them I guess. lol

[BenB]

that was "many use" above
Why cannot this forum be set up to allow editing by non-LHBA users?

[spiralsands]

No Ben, I'm doing a shed roof for expediency and budget. I considered the steep roof and loft but that will only add to the time and cost. I'm trying to sock money away so I can get out there asap.

I don't really go on to the CountryPlans forum too much despite the fact that there are a few people who are building those homes close to Winterwood. There's one doctor from Long Island who just finished a cabin north of me in the mountains. He put in a wood framed basement on that 20x30. He did a beautiful job.

I take a peek at the forums once in a while to see if anyone else is doing one similar to mine. There is one couple in Arizona who built a Little House 10x12 with a shed roof. It faces west and they painted it lavender so it literally glows when the setting sun hits it. They were putting a deck on the front last I read but they don't update much. Mine will look like that except longer and wider with 2 windows in the front. I haven't yet decided how to side it.

[spiralsands]

Had a good morning but really BAD afternoon yesterday out at Winterwood. 2 weeks ago a terrible storm went through the area. We got there the day after and found a huge downed tree blocking the driveway in, water damage to the culvert, both storage tents were destroyed with broken poles. So we got all the camping stuff out of the destroyed tents and went home since we had no tools or chainsaw in the truck.

Back out there yesterday we cut up the big tree and loaded all the wood into the truck. Then we took a look at the little house to see if it was all okay. Natalie wanted to go take a walk out the back of the property so we parked the truck near the little house, I took my camera and she took her cell phone and we headed down into the bog to see what was going on with the streams. Well, I was floored by what we found. The area that I was planning to cross with a bridge had been washed out to almost twice its width and had huge deposits of rocks piled up in various places. The water had jumped the banks on both sides so it was probably flowing over a foot higher than the banks as it crossed a little spit of land to where the stream bent around. It had laid everything down flat in its path crossing the ground.

So we then went back up to a narrower part of the stream and crossed over to get to the pond side. We had to the cross again at the stream that drains out of the pond. Climbing up on the back pasture, I was shocked by what I saw of that stream. Huge chunks of the pond side wall had been ripped away by the current of the water that had gone through there. We walked up to where the pond drainage was and saw that the outlet had been totally compromised and collapsed. The water had also breached the south wall and made another opening so it is just a matter of another storm to collapse that whole side.

I'm going to lose the pond. I would have to get hydrology engineers in here to fix it and I can't afford that. Any bridge I would build would have to be really high and really long. I would have to reconsider my build location too because without a safe stream, the north hill would eventually erode too. So I would be restricted to the front 6 acres of my land with the 2/3+ protected from me by an angry stream and giant mudhole that my pond will soon be. I took pics. I'm heartsick.

To console ourselves, Natalie and I decided to go into the woods for a little walk. It was cool, shady, nice. It was about noon. Many times I had been in there and I knew all the boundaries because they were distinctly marked. All the surveyor's marks on the east, the barbed wire fence and the snowmobile trail of the back, and the brushy edge of the eastside where the old rock wall is. Well, we got totally lost. Lost in our own woods. When we finally found a trail after staggering about for 2 hours, it led us to a field that was completely enclosed in woods. That's where we called the non-emergency 911 for guidance out of there. The sheriff was able to get a GPS fix on us and notify the landowner that we were lost on his land. He came and got us with an ATV. Very embarrassing but we were grateful. I'll never know how we blew the boundaries of our own little woods.

But now the quandary. Natalie and I had serious talk on the way home. Should we sell this property? Maybe we need to look for something else? I seriously do not know what I'm going to do. I don't want to spend the next decade suffering expensive setbacks. This is not a "throw a few culverts in" issue. This is a little stream to raging river issue.

1785
1786
1787

These pics are the stream on the south side that drains out of the pond. The back wall has eroded a few feed out. That wall is the pond wall also. It has been severely under cut in many places. There doesn't look like much water now but it was as high as the banks when it was storming.

[rreidnauer]

Geez. That is a tough break, but I imagine if it had to happen, better now, than if you had already put in an (inadequate) bridge and further expenses. Sleep on it for a while, and talk with the locals. You never know what might turn up and throw your worries into a 180.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using TapaTalk 2

[loghousenut]

To me this all just makes the place more interesting. Sounds like quite a day for you two. I can imagine the headline "Mother, daughter found starving after 6 weeks in the forest". Sure glad you didn't have to resort to cannibalism. It would have given LHBA a bad name.





What I meant to say was, "Glad things turned out OK and sorry about the mess Ma Nature made for you". Wish I was there to lend a hand. Keep plugging away and more photos.

[BoFuller]

Wow, what a bummer. I second Rod. Sleep on it and spend some time reassessing the situation. It could be that another scenario pops up that you never considered. Hang in there!

[panderson03]

yeah, I think Rod has it right. good news that if this is a deal breaker, good to know now before you have TOO much money wrapped up in this build.

and taking time to re-think your options is wise advice too!!

best of luck. we're pulling for you!!

[spiralsands]

I'm feeling a little less disconsolate this afternoon. A little more resigned. I have 7 years emotionally invested in this property. I guess I just have to come to grips with it being a wild child right in the middle of where I saw a little crossing bridge for my truck and a little gazebo pond-side for fishing or reading. It's just the polar opposite natures of the stream when it's calm and then when the rain comes that's kicking my butt.

I'm going to sit on it for awhile I guess. Right now I can't imagine letting it go. I can't imagine even where I would go.

[rckclmbr428]

Sounds like a excellent reason to convince the misses to buy a backhoe

[spiralsands]

Sounds like a excellent reason to convince the misses to buy a backhoe

But...but...I AM the "misses"....

[rreidnauer]

But...but...I AM the "misses"....Should be a lot easier then. :p

Whether building a home or not, I can't even imagine having a large piece if property, and not having a backhoe. The uses seem endless.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using TapaTalk 2

[rckclmbr428]

Let me rephrase then, sounds like you've missed an excellent father's day gift

[donjuedo]

Fathers' Day is not over, yet. Maybe she can write herself an IOU for a backhoe.

This might be a good time to be resourceful and ask members like stressman, Rod, LHN, and others for ideas on what they would do in her shoes, to keep the dream alive.

[loghousenut]

Fathers' Day is not over, yet. Maybe she can write herself an IOU for a backhoe.

This might be a good time to be resourceful and ask members like stressman, Rod, LHN, and others for ideas on what they would do in her shoes, to keep the dream alive.

Well I think she oughta get married so she can argue with the old man about that backhoe!





The only REAL option in my mind is to suck it up and build. I've seen the photos... It'sa good looking chunk of land in a great location. This is just a fly in the ointment and flies can be flicked out of most ointment fairly easily.

One more thing... Get a compass!

[LogHomeFeverDan]

Every time in my life there's been a "setback", in retrospect, I found it was an opportunity for a BETTER solution. There is a solution here too. You may not realize it yet, but you will in the PROPER time. You are emotionally invested. Wait for the negative emotions to pass. Rod gave great advice, sleep on it. Maybe sleep on it a few nights. When the emotional aspect of the challenge dissolves, the solution will appear.

There is a way to make this happen, and within your budget. Just as you were temporarily "lost near your own woods", the solution presently is "lost" amid the emotions.

[John W]

Go ahead and build 'little house', then take a bit of a break before you jump in on 'big house'. Spend that time enjoying the property, get a feel for what it would be like with big house done. If you decide the pond going away and the wild child stream/river is too much, you've improved the property with little house, and will be able to get out of it okay.

[spiralsands]

Well I think she oughta get married so she can argue with the old man about that backhoe!

The only REAL option in my mind is to suck it up and build. I've seen the photos... It'sa good looking chunk of land in a great location. This is just a fly in the ointment and flies can be flicked out of most ointment fairly easily.

One more thing... Get a compass!

Getting married might be a little radical...I mean I could use the extra help but it seems that the single guys my age are looking for the manicured, yoga-class types with lots of coffee shop time to chat and plan cool trips to Martha's Vineyard. Not a chainsaw wielding, muddy up to her knees, messy haired, lost in the woods type....like me.

You're right about the property. It is nice despite the rude bisection of stream and bog. I just have to rethink stuff now.

And funny you should mention the compass. When I parked the truck on the front pasture...the compass and the GPS were inside when we took off toward the woods. A real couple of weiners, me and Natalie.

[John W]

I have never been lost! But I think that's due to my definition of lost. I'm lost only if I don't know where I am AND I can't get back to where I started from. If you can backtrack, you're not lost, you're just not where you want to be. There have been several times that I haven't been where I wanted (wrong side of mountain or valley), and one time also accepted a ride back to our car (on our honeymoon).

[spiralsands]

I was never lost either, till I was.

[Gomer]

I was never lost either, till I was.

I'm lost in my mind _____ and I'm just fine with it.;)

I concur with continue the small place and finish it up, give pause and then decide after serious thought later.
There are times when it makes sense to continue the journey we on and times to turn around and take that other fork in the road.
Can't help you with that decision that best by you but when we so close to something frustrating it's sometimes to easy to say >> screw it. And later regret it. Or not.
Time usually clears the muddy water.
That said - the pictures, pardon my frenchette, suck to look at. Sorry to hear and see this. Better days are ahead regardless of the fork you choose young lady.
Best of luck

[LogHomeFeverDan]

I grew up in the woods. Never even thought about "being lost". Then there was this one Saturday. A buddy and I were hunting, in a woods we both knew like the back of our hands. A fog rolled in.

We were baffled. Even when we finally got to a road we should have recognized, we were clueless. We just choose a direction and started walking. The first house we finally saw we knew where we were.

That's a S I C K feeling.

I still think a terrific solution will present itself Spiralsands. You and Natalie did fine! You used what you had and made your way. A testament to both of you!

[rreidnauer]

I know ya got your heart set on that pond, and if ya find the right tree-hugger who wants to see the wetlands protected, you just might be able to get a volunteer group in there to get things sorted on both the pond and stream. The bridge may be a bigger challenge now that you know what that little stream is capable of, but at least now you know what really needs to be surmounted, and now it's time to get really creative with a way to overcome the obstacle. (I'm thinking two concrete abutments and an old flat railcar stripped of it's wheels would be sweet) Ya got to look at it as a challenge, not a defeat. I've always liked a good monetary/mechanical challenge to give my brain cells something to do.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using TapaTalk 2

[spiralsands]

Fathers' Day is not over, yet. Maybe she can write herself an IOU for a backhoe.

I'll probably have to write that IOU for Mother's Day since that's what I yam.

[rckclmbr428]

I'm never lost, I've been temporarily disoriented a few times, but never lost

[spiralsands]

Ya know Rod, maybe 350 days of the year that stream is just a stream. I could get a logger to get my logs across it. It's the other 15 days when it hulks up that put me in a funk. I talked to the town supervisor today and he was still in shock from that storm. He told me they got 12 inches of rain there. He put his corn in the day before and it still hasn't come up yet 3 weeks later. The guy who fetched me and Natalie on his ATV told me on the ride in that he had a crew of friends there helping him fix his barn roof because a tree went through it during that storm. And guess what...when I told him about my pond possibly failing, he told me that that pond has gone out before. Luckily there is nothing that will be flooded between the pond and the creek it meanders to should it go. I just don't wanna get sued! He also said it was probably the reason we got lost. With the wind, all the surveyors' markings were probably ripped off the trees. That's probably why we blew right by our boundary. Luckily I have all the fixes on my GPS.

I Google Earth'd the lot and found that on the other side, the north side, of the road, the elevation climbs another 200 feet to the next ridge (not far) and east on my road it climbs another 100 feet. So it's kinda like a half funnel when it rains and all the stuff comes in our direction. My stream and pond are actually part of the watershed. My luck. Well, next week I am on vacation and I'll go show my face down at the town hall on Thursday night and see if I could get them to make my Little House legal with a permit...as a "shed" of course.

Thanks everyone for the encouragement. You guys are the BEST!!

[LowKey]

Any kind of structure helps. To pay for my logs I agreed to thin 50 acres that were 2-1/2 hours from home. For several months that fall and winter I spent 4 nights per week over at that property, working my days off while spending 40 hours pretending to work at my job. I built a little camping hut out of the firewood that was not worth hauling home, and it kept me comfy with 10" of snow on top. It had a warm bed, woodstove, campstove, kitchen stuff, and junk carpet on the ground. I even had a portable DVD player that I could run from a car battery. Usually I'd get there at 2:00 am after working all day. Made it so easy to get up early, whip out a hot meal and fire up the saw for a day of real work. I don't know how you folks who commute to your build site get anything accomplished.

You, of course, are civilized and looking for something more domestic that will be a permanent addition to your homesite. It'll make such a difference in your life.


http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/Our%20Home/The%20hut/13Thetreewiththepinkribbonwillbethe.jpg

Hmm.
That looks like it might not be a bad temporary set up for my place.
I'll need somewhere to store tools, ect between my yearly expeditions to work on the property. I'd thought about using that as an opportunity to practice the techniques I'll learn in the Feb Class in Vegas, but OTOH from all I've heard taking down a pinned B&P structure is a PITA.

Now, stacking some cord wood up and slapping a roof on sounds like decent short term/temp shelter.

[loghousenut]

The only way I have successfully taken down a LHBA structure is with a chainsaw and a weeklong bonfire.

[rckclmbr428]

You could always just move it

[LowKey]

You could always just move it

By hand????
There is no road access to the parcel, everything has to come in by boat. No heavy equipment on site.

[rckclmbr428]

Egyptians moved the pyramid stones with less technology then is available to you. It's possible.

[donjuedo]

I seem to recall they had slaves, too, and lots of them. :-D

[LowKey]

And many years to complete their projects.
I'll have one 30 day block of time per year.

Good
Fast
Cheap

I'll get to have 2 out of 3, just like everyone else, and just like Meat said, "Two out of three ain't bad".

Seriously, I might be able to pull off moving small and basic B&P structure years down the road, but It would still be easier to just build a new one from scratch.


BTW, I've seen a gent using wooden levers to manipulate and move huge stone weighing multiple tons each. Impressive, and leaves me with no doubt that humans can move some huge weights.

[edkemper]

I wonder how much weight one of the heavy lift helicopters can carry. Just wondering. I'm also betting that even if one could lift the weight, the cost would be prohibitive.

[rckclmbr428]

When we used helicopters to set bridges in the forest it was a 10k show up fee, and a 1k every lift fee. That was 10 yrs ago