Disadvantages

[John G]

So I've read all the articles, read a bunch of the old threads. They tout all sorts of advantages of the Skip/LHBA style of building. But nothing is perfect, and every system has its weaknesses along with its strengths. The engineer in me says that understanding the weaknesses of any system is just as important as understanding the strengths.

Can anyone provide an honest appraisal of the disadvantages of this building method?

[lilbluehonda]

You won't be able to develop the skills for scribing and notching logs and building settling space into every door and window opening,tightening threw bolts working with screw jacks to level out your home for years .It's really hard unless you just like the look of a scribed and notched home or you really don't want to chink,I personally can't think of any big disadvantage unless you just what to work even harder than building a butt and pass which I think is hard enough with out making it even harder

[dvb]

Disadvantages? I guess you could say the gaps between the logs that have to filled and chinked. I really like the look of a chinked house and so I would not call it a disadvantage.

[Matt F.]

Hi John,

I have not taken the class yet (finally able to take the class this May!), but I assume the disadvantages will be discussed and "solved" during the class. From my ignorant observations and speculations, I would guess some disadvantages might be:

1) air leakage/infiltration - there seems to be a lot of space between the logs and in the corners. I would think that the chinking would need to be pretty well done to eliminate this.

2) somewhat unique building method - could be difficult to get approval for. The structural merit of this method could be called into question by building inspectors, or engineers (assuming you needed to get a stamp of approval on drawings or something like that).

3) the actual physical work - I know a lot of people that prefer to pay others to do work, rather than doing it themselves. It would seem this method (or at least the economical strategy) requires a lot of do-it-yourself action. Personally, I'm looking forward to this part!

4) availability of building materials - structural lumber is available at any Lowes or Home Depot, I would guess it's a bit harder to attain the appropriate logs for this method of building.

5) weight of the building - I'd assume it requires a pretty beefy foundational support

6) esthetics - when I first found the LHBA, I was really into the look of kit homes and thought the butt and pass homes were sort of ugly. Since then, I've come to love the look of a real log home, and find that kit homes look really plastic and fake.

7) familiarity with the building method - I think fewer people know about this method. It could be harder to find local help, information, guidance, etc if you ran into issues.

Those are some of my thoughts, but like I said, that's coming from a position of ignorance. I also don't think that any of these are issues that cannot be solved/worked around. I agree with you that knowing the disadvantages is a very good thing. The key to defeating your enemy is knowing your enemy, right?

-Matt

[loghousenut]

Hi John,

I have not taken the class yet (finally able to take the class this May!), but I assume the disadvantages will be discussed and "solved" during the class. From my ignorant observations and speculations, I would guess some disadvantages might be:

1) air leakage/infiltration - there seems to be a lot of space between the logs and in the corners. I would think that the chinking would need to be pretty well done to eliminate this.

2) somewhat unique building method - could be difficult to get approval for. The structural merit of this method could be called into question by building inspectors, or engineers (assuming you needed to get a stamp of approval on drawings or something like that).

3) the actual physical work - I know a lot of people that prefer to pay others to do work, rather than doing it themselves. It would seem this method (or at least the economical strategy) requires a lot of do-it-yourself action. Personally, I'm looking forward to this part!

4) availability of building materials - structural lumber is available at any Lowes or Home Depot, I would guess it's a bit harder to attain the appropriate logs for this method of building.

5) weight of the building - I'd assume it requires a pretty beefy foundational support

6) esthetics - when I first found the LHBA, I was really into the look of kit homes and thought the butt and pass homes were sort of ugly. Since then, I've come to love the look of a real log home, and find that kit homes look really plastic and fake.

7) familiarity with the building method - I think fewer people know about this method. It could be harder to find local help, information, guidance, etc if you ran into issues.

Those are some of my thoughts, but like I said, that's coming from a position of ignorance. I also don't think that any of these are issues that cannot be solved/worked around. I agree with you that knowing the disadvantages is a very good thing. The key to defeating your enemy is knowing your enemy, right?

-Matt

John G's has come up with a GREAT LHBA question. Matt F. did a great job of answering that illustrates the way a person thinks before class. This is in NO way a criticism of Matt's answer but rather an explanation from the perspective of a guy who took the class from Skip 30 years ago and is currently building the log home he will die in.

1) air leakage/infiltration... Don't worry about it. Chinking is not rocket science and you won't have to figure anything out. Your LHBA home will be warm in the winter and cool in the summer.

2) somewhat unique building method... My County inspector looked at our plans and said "I've never seen anything like this". Within 3 minutes he had glanced at each page of the plans and looked at the engineer's stamp and scribbles and then he said "I'm backed up right now, give me a week and the plans will be stamped". The county has been the easiest part of the equation.

3) the actual physical work... When I am done, I will own the home I am building, free and clear. It will be the kind of place that makes folks say "WOW" when they walk through the door. No mortgage unless I have not paid off the property (I have paid it off). I have hired out a bit of help and could hire more if I needed it. I too look forward to the work and I can proceed at my own pace. No banker will care how my home looks or how I schedule the build.

4) availability of building materials... It's a log home. I live in Oregon. If I can't find logs in Oregon, I'm not the kind of guy who oughta be building a log home. There are LHBA members currently building in 20 or 30 states and Canada and Japan who have found logs. Most of those logs are prettier than my Oregon logs. We have LHBA homes being built in IOWA of all places. Logs are not a problem. In class you will learn tricks about obtaining logs that will save you more than the cost of class.

5) weight of the building... Each of my walls weighs about as much as a stick house. The engineer specifies the foundation required and it is plenty beefy and yet affordable. I doubled My engineer's required footing just for fun. Don't worry about the foundation.

6) esthetics... There's no accounting for taste. If you think my home is funny looking you'd better get used to it because it will still be standing in 200 years. Personally, I like it and I like the reaction of visitors as they touch it for the first time.

7) familiarity with the building method... Take the class. True, I have had no useful help and advice from any of the local log home people. They are too busy arguing among themselves about all of the other ways to build. The only thing they agree on is that my way of doing it won't work. They are wrong. Once you get moving on a project like this, you'll find that what little encouragement and advice you need about the LHBA method will come from the "member's only" side of the forum. The class really does set you up for success and get's it all straight in your noggin. My greatest hurdles have been with questions about the conventional construction that has to happen in my build. Those answers come from the lumber store, etc. Take the class.


PS... I have only built one notched log building. It was OK but I wouldn't do it again. Your experience may vary.

[Matt F.]

John G's has come up with a GREAT LHBA question. Matt F. did a great job of answering that illustrates the way a person thinks before class. This is in NO way a criticism of Matt's answer but rather an explanation from the perspective of a guy who took the class from Skip 30 years ago and is currently building the log home he will die in

Great responses! I would be really disappointed if my way of thinking was the same after I take the class. Direct experience sure has a way of altering ignorance!

-Matt

[rreidnauer]

1) No issue, though, there had been a few mentions of rainwater occasionally reaching interior faces in extreme wind-driven rain.
2) Agreed, potential is there.
3) Agreed, definitely not as physically easy as stacking a Lincoln Log type kit structure
4) Agreed, depending on location. But even with the need to have logs brought in by rail car if necessary, the cost of your superstructure should still be less than a kit home
5) No issue, other than it sort of goes back to #3
6) Agreed, majority of people these days like the kit home look. I suppose this could potentially be an influencing factor in resale value.
7) No issue, most work can be done by the average layman. (heck, most of us are!) When in a pickle, you still have this forum, and you can always bounce ideas off your local building department. (heck, they'll probably appreciate the fact that you value their opinion)

[loghousenut]

John Glenn was a Marine Corps fighter pilot. He was a success by most measures of a man/woman. He was really something.

The he went into space and he never looked at the World from the same perspective.



Matt, I can in no way imagine that your way of thinking would not be altered drastically by going to LHBA class. There's nothing wrong with your line of thinking as it stands today, but it would definitely change once you've done the deed.

Ignorance is one of those goofily pejorative terms that seem to only apply when we use them with contempt. There's certainly nothing contemptible about your way of thinking.

[Matt F.]

Right on, guys!

I'm actually really ok with the word ignorance. I don't think it's negative at all. I like it! I think I like it because it's easy to get around - if I'm ignorant about something and I don't want to be, all I have to do is learn.

With regards to the disadvantages, I was just brain storming to try to think of some. I'm certainly not concerned or worried about them.

[WornOut]

Ignorance may be a good thing as if one really knew the work involved who knows what they may do.
Think when you get excited it becomes a moot point. Many say, rightfully so no doubt, that the pride they feel is beyond expression mostly.
In my life I've built or help build 5 stick builts. I'd don't have that time or drive left anymore.
My wife and I both are unsure if we will actually be saving money vs buying or doing another stick-build.
I am starting to think the LHBA person is into something different - yeah, they call it a different lifestyle or some do anyway, but think to make it effective cost-wise it may be they do things on the cheap if it can be done. That's a cool thing. Not saying you couldn't do the same with a stick build but the one difference I see is the windows. Here you can cut to size...on a stick you'd need to know in advance for framing reasons, etc
Both are work ...... guess both also are rewarding. These guys sure seem to know their stuff

[rocklock]

I have not taken the class yet From my ignorant observations and speculations, I would guess some disadvantages might be:
1) air leakage/infiltration
2) somewhat unique building method - could be difficult to get approval for
3) the actual physical work
4) availability of building materials
5) weight of the building - I'd assume it requires a pretty beefy foundational support
6) esthetics
7) familiarity with the building method
coming from a position of ignorance. t
I have built a well shed and a 30 by 30 home... I have some knowledge.
1. This is untrue. I will not go into the LHBA methods, but I will stack my home against any home for tightness... see some discussion below.
2. My log home has over 900 pieces of steel in it... approval is not a problem.
3. If you want some one else to do it, there may be a problem because getting the shell up is hard - fast but hard.
4. Logs - rebar are available... not a problem.
5. My footing and foundation meet the specs for a stone wall in Washington... It was about 20% more expensive... no problem...
6. I like chinking... but some don't... If you look at some of the log home that are hundreds of years old, the yellowed striping looks really cool... Look at my interior chinking... It's yellow like the old stuff...
7. Ya need to take the class to understand...

One reason why there are not LHBA style builders all over the place (we do have one) is because you can't have a yard, build the shell, dissemble the shell, and rebuild it somewhere else... This is truly a custom built home... No others will be like mine.

Finally, because our walls hare held together with steel, the heights of the log wall do not shrink... Period... the logs do shrink around their centers so the distance between the logs increases, but there is an easy way to compensate for this, as shown in the closeups of my chinking. If you stack any log against any other log horizontally, the wall will shrink. The shrinkage can be as much as 10%... My log wall does not shrink. My windows and doors still open and close. My plumbing and electrical systems do not require special assemblies. My roof has no jacks or anything else.

So long story short - The only number that is valid is number 3. If you are afraid of hard work, which is not for everyone; if you don't like to make or build things, then I would suggest a different style of home.

[Matt F.]

This is an interesting discussion!

Keep in mind, that I'm only coming up with things that could be seen as disadvantages to this building method. I'm certainly not implying that they should be reason not to build with this style. In fact, I think some of them are actually reasons to build with this style, but they still could be seen as disadvantages by some people.

To keep it lively, I thought of some more!

8) log seasoning time - having logs on a rack for a length of time, and having to rotate them sounds like it would take a good bit of time and energy. And if you find that you need more, I assume you can't just go fell a tree, peel it, and use it. It's not like heading over to a lumber yard for some kiln dried lumber

9) specialty tools - there must be certain tools that one would need to build log walls that would not be necessary for stick framed walls. Since interior walls are most likely stick framed, you'd need to have all those tools, plus the extra log wall tools

10) need for creative methods to have electrical boxes and light switches on exterior walls - I would assume that this gets easier as the "logs" get more and more milled with kit homes. Certainly not an issue with stick framed houses.

11) lack of support from other people - if your friends and family think you're crazy for doing something out of the norm, I'm sure it can become mentally draining.

12) could drilling into the logs for the rebar holes increase/encourage more checking in the logs? Or does it act like drilling pilot holes? Are the properties of logs a lot different than those of cut wood?

13) extra lot space needed for construction - from the sounds of things, the logs take up a lot of horizontal space. Piles of lumber can be stacked vertically, and need less square footage.

14) more work to hang kitchen cabinets - I'm sure there are great methods for this, but it's got to be harder than hanging them on stick framed walls

15) baseboard challenges - like the cabinets, I'm sure there must be preferred methods, but can't be as easy as stick framed.

16) anything flat that bumps up to logs walls - see 14 and 15, plus scribing drywall to the logs, window and door casing, tile, etc

17) interior moisture? - does the hot, steamy air of bathrooms cause any issues with the log walls in the bathrooms?

Clearly, I'm sort of grasping at straws for some of these. But I rather enjoyed all the responses to the first list. I'm also not sure how many of these apply just to the LHBA butt and pass style, and how many might apply to other methods of log building also.

-Matt

[rawson]

This is an interesting discussion!

Keep in mind, that I'm only coming up with things that could be seen as disadvantages to this building method. I'm certainly not implying that they should be reason not to build with this style. In fact, I think some of them are actually reasons to build with this style, but they still could be seen as disadvantages by some people.

To keep it lively, I thought of some more!

8) log seasoning time - having logs on a rack for a length of time, and having to rotate them sounds like it would take a good bit of time and energy. And if you find that you need more, I assume you can't just go fell a tree, peel it, and use it. It's not like heading over to a lumber yard for some kiln dried lumber

9) specialty tools - there must be certain tools that one would need to build log walls that would not be necessary for stick framed walls. Since interior walls are most likely stick framed, you'd need to have all those tools, plus the extra log wall tools

10) need for creative methods to have electrical boxes and light switches on exterior walls - I would assume that this gets easier as the "logs" get more and more milled with kit homes. Certainly not an issue with stick framed houses.

11) lack of support from other people - if your friends and family think you're crazy for doing something out of the norm, I'm sure it can become mentally draining.

12) could drilling into the logs for the rebar holes increase/encourage more checking in the logs? Or does it act like drilling pilot holes? Are the properties of logs a lot different than those of cut wood?

13) extra lot space needed for construction - from the sounds of things, the logs take up a lot of horizontal space. Piles of lumber can be stacked vertically, and need less square footage.

14) more work to hang kitchen cabinets - I'm sure there are great methods for this, but it's got to be harder than hanging them on stick framed walls

15) baseboard challenges - like the cabinets, I'm sure there must be preferred methods, but can't be as easy as stick framed.

16) anything flat that bumps up to logs walls - see 14 and 15, plus scribing drywall to the logs, window and door casing, tile, etc

17) interior moisture? - does the hot, steamy air of bathrooms cause any issues with the log walls in the bathrooms?

Clearly, I'm sort of grasping at straws for some of these. But I rather enjoyed all the responses to the first list. I'm also not sure how many of these apply just to the LHBA butt and pass style, and how many might apply to other methods of log building also.

-Matt
That is a great list of of concerns in various building challenges. Would be tempted to bet a dollar to a dime that with an inquisitive mind that created this list that with perseverance one could overcome these challenges once the ground breaking started. With any custom build creativity seems to get it done. With all the information on this site to glean from most questions appear to be answered.

[rocklock]

8) log seasoning time -
9) specialty tools
10) need for creative methods to have electrical boxes and light switches on exterior walls -
11) lack of support from other people -
12) could drilling into the logs for the rebar holes increase/encourage more checking in the logs?
13) extra lot space needed for construction -
14) more work to hang kitchen cabinets -
15) baseboard challenges -
16) anything flat that bumps up to logs walls -
17) interior moisture? -
-Matt
Well your thinking...
8. We build with green logs. My logs were cut in Jan-feb, bought march 30, peeled by first week in may, stacked in Aug.
9. No special tools needed, unless you are building on a cliff or doing something really weird. Just a demo hammer, big drill and a good chain saw... If you read the literature, the tools that are needed can fit into a car's trunk...
10. You haven't looked at my pictures... It is really easy. Lights on exterior walls, you use the tools you already have... It's up to you to be creative.
11. You will need a support system - and that apply for any large project... so nothing special.
12. No... checking happens over time...
13. Extra space is great to have, but I built on a space that is about 40 by 120, even though my lot is in acres...
14. French cleats- look it up... I had my cabinets hung in about 1/2 an hour... This is covered on the members side...
15. Look at my baseboards... no problem...
16. No problem... scribing drywall becomes very easy...
17. All bathrooms need moisture control. We have discussed this with no problems...

The log shell is easy. There are very simple rules that make lots of sense. Remember, this method has evolved over many years. The way the LHBA teaches about the entire system makes most of the stuff you asked about very easy... For example a wet wall. Put stuff in the right place then there are no 30 foot vent runs.

I bet if you looked closely ay my pictures and watch the video, most of your questions will be answered. Good luck.

[rreidnauer]

I'll go again

8) As would be indicated on Family Feud, "BZZZZZZZT" Nope, Green or seasoned, no difference. Even intermixed not an issue. Granted, turning them on occasion can be a bit of work, but what? An hour every couple weeks?
9) There are a few, but not many and not pricey. Off the top of my head would be, a set of log dogs, a peavy or two, lifting straps
10) No, no so much. Rather easy for the most part. Might be a little challenge getting a wire from a switch on a log wall, to a ceiling fixture.
11) Agreed. Often family and friends can think you've gone bonkers until you finally prove them wrong. Some (like some of my family members did) may even try to sabotage your plans/efforts.
12) Nope. No issue
13) Yes, space is greatly appreciated for the log field. It will make working A LOT easier if you got room to maneuver.
14) Ehhh, maybe, maybe not. I plan to simply frame where the base and overhead cabinets are, but no further or higher.
15) Heck with baseboards on the logs. How about a big hemp rope tacked in where the wall and floor meet?
16) I'm right on with Rocklock. Scribing drywall isn't a big deal. Just remember, you can't do it by sticking a pencil in a ball bearing and tracing the log's profile.
17) Yep, again as Rocklock says, same for any construction type.

[hemlock77]

This is an interesting discussion!



To keep it lively, I thought of some more!

8) log seasoning time

9) specialty tools -

10) need for creative methods to have electrical boxes and light switches on exterior walls -

11) lack of support from other people - if your friends and family think you're crazy for doing something out of the norm, I'm sure it can become mentally draining.

12) could drilling into the logs for the rebar holes increase/encourage more checking in the logs?

13) extra lot space needed for construction -

14) more work to hang kitchen cabinets -


15) baseboard challenges - like the cabinets, I'm sure there must be preferred methods, but can't be as easy as stick framed.

16) anything flat that bumps up to logs walls - see 14 and 15, plus scribing drywall to the logs, window and door casing, tile, etc

17) interior moisture? -

-Matt
8. Does not apply to this method.
9.There are a few, like chainsaw etc, this is only a small part of the overall project, the class covers cost effective procurement.
10. It is actually easier with this method, than with milled logs.
11. My friends and family already are aware that I am a bit loony. Once progress begins they will come around to support you. My brother, who was one of my biggest critics, now carries pictures of our cabin in his wallet to brag upon.
12. Doesn't work that way, a drill bit is not a wedge.
13. We worked in an area that is 70x80 including the footprint of the house. Just takes some basic organizational skills.
14. By the time you get to that point, your skill-set will be advanced to the point that this
will only represent a few minutes of your time.
15. See 14
16. On scribing, once you do it a few times, it becomes as fluid as cutting a straight like with a skill saw.
17. Same exact issues and concerns as with any other construction method.
Stu

[rckclmbr428]

[QUOTE=rreidnauer;71115]I'll go again

8) As would be indicated on Family Feud, "BZZZZZZZT" Nope, Green or seasoned, no difference. Even intermixed not an issue. Granted, turning them on occasion can be a bit of work, but what? An hour every couple week

Going to disagree with you Rod, building with green logs is fine, but you will have chinking gap
Issues down the road that will need to be addressed if chunking with mortar. If using seasoned logs you won't have any touch ups to the chinking down the road

[lynncherl]

9) I used the Skip method of block & tackle to lift my logs. Maybe I'm weird, but I really enjoyed reading the Army Field Manual "Rigging Techniques, Procedures, and Applications" and adapting their method of lifting a deuce and a half to lifting my logs. On the other hand, after peeling a hundred or so logs, I decided I probably wouldn't want to fully scribe and notch those hundred logs.

Lynn

[loghousenut]

Matt, Your only direct hit was #11. They'll all think you're nuts! You can't do it that way... It'll be drafty... I can get you a discount on the caulking that my Brother used on his chinkless cabin... You'll need screw jacks under those upright logs... No settling space above your doors???... You should build your floor structure and set your log walls on it... Better get a home equity loan on your house so you can get a crew in there and get that mess finished in a hurry... Why didn't you mill your logs so they fit tight together like my Uncle did on his cabin???... Are you sure it's not going to just fall apart???... You didn't buy a kit???



I have heard each of those statements. They just don't get it. Stand somewhere out of the way and watch how this thing works folks. It's not rocket science. You take logs, iron, sweat, and mortar and you use them all together in a way that takes advantage of their strengths. It is a system that works like a fine Swiss watch.

Definitely they will think you're crazy the first time they see it in action. They'll get over it.

[Matt F.]

15) Heck with baseboards on the logs. How about a big hemp rope tacked in where the wall and floor meet?

That is a great idea! I have never thought of that approach. But I like it a lot!

[Matt F.]

Going to disagree with you Rod, building with green logs is fine, but you will have chinking gap
Issues down the road that will need to be addressed if chunking with mortar. If using seasoned logs you won't have any touch ups to the chinking down the road

I should have been more specific. This is why I was assuming the logs needed to be seasoned. I figured it would be a pain to have to check all the chinking, and re-work a good part of it.

[Matt F.]

When I first found LHBA, I was a massage therapist. I knew I wanted a log home, and building my own seemed like an awesome idea. But I knew nothing of building, what-so-ever. When I stopped doing massage, I got a job doing residential and light commercial construction. I figured, "What better way to learn this stuff, than by immersing myself in it?" With every new skill I learned, I thought about applying it to building a log home. I thought about how it would look, how it would function, and how the unique qualities of a log home could effect the process.

When I'm speaking of disadvantages, I'm using a stick built cube as my reference point. Anything that would require more work, a higher level of skill, the need to be creative, extra tools, more patience, etc when building a log home, as compared to my cube, are disadvantages. I'm in no way saying these are insurmountable hurdles that should keep anyone from building a log home. Is scribing drywall impossible? No. But it's harder than butting pieces together in a 90 degree corner. Are a chainsaw, block and tackle, and log peeling tool crazy, exotic tools? No. But I sure as heck didn't need them when I was building stick framed houses.

In fact, I think all of the unique qualities of a well built log home (the disadvantages) are what make it so great. I expect my home to make people stop and say, "Wow! How did you do THAT?!" I really look forward to all the unique challenges. But c'mon guys, let's call a spade a spade - all this extra stuff needs to be put in the disadvantage column when someone is deciding if this method is best for them.

Just my take on it. :)

[Matt F.]

Matt, Your only direct hit was #11. They'll all think you're nuts!

People already do!! I'm a non-drug using, white guy with dreadlocks. I drive a tiny little hatchback because I like the way it looks. I've spent thousands of dollars to fly to the other side of the globe to learn Kungfu. I have a bizarre desire to sew and wear my own kilt (see ultilikilts.com for my inspiration!!). People think I'm nuts all the time!

But I've always wanted to be driven by my passions, and not try to live up to someone else's standards. Though, I'm sure that's a pretty common theme amongst the LHBA'ers!

[WornOut]

People already do!! I'm a non-drug using, white guy with dreadlocks. I drive a tiny little hatchback because I like the way it looks. I've spent thousands of dollars to fly to the other side of the globe to learn Kungfu. I have a bizarre desire to sew and wear my own kilt (see ultilikilts.com for my inspiration!!). People think I'm nuts all the time!

But I've always wanted to be driven by my passions, and not try to live up to someone else's standards. Though, I'm sure that's a pretty common theme amongst the LHBA'ers!

I thin' you just hammered in the final piece of rebar with this one - maybe they'll offer up a collection to get you into class. Hell - I may even offer to drive you there. lol

[Matt F.]

I thin' you just hammered in the final piece of rebar with this one - maybe they'll offer up a collection to get you into class. Hell - I may even offer to drive you there. lol

Dang it! I've already registered for class this May! But I'm totally willing to take donations... :cool:

[WornOut]

I hope you get some. lol
where are you coming from?

[Matt F.]

Updated my profile info! I'm in NH. The plan is to build in NH, also. It's looking like a very good chance that my girlfriend and I will be receiving a few acres of land from her parents at no cost. Extremely generous, and very cool!

[rreidnauer]

I'll go again

8) As would be indicated on Family Feud, "BZZZZZZZT" Nope, Green or seasoned, no difference. Even intermixed not an issue. Granted, turning them on occasion can be a bit of work, but what? An hour every couple week

Going to disagree with you Rod, building with green logs is fine, but you will have chinking gap
Issues down the road that will need to be addressed if chunking with mortar. If using seasoned logs you won't have any touch ups to the chinking down the road
OK, I guess some clarification is in order. Most folks here don't/won't be building at the pace Rockclimber does. I figure from time of acquiring logs, to the time I'll be ready to chink will likely be 2 years. That's a bit of time for them to do their major portion of shrinking/seasoning.

[loghousenut]

So I've read all the articles, read a bunch of the old threads. They tout all sorts of advantages of the Skip/LHBA style of building. But nothing is perfect, and every system has its weaknesses along with its strengths. The engineer in me says that understanding the weaknesses of any system is just as important as understanding the strengths.

Can anyone provide an honest appraisal of the disadvantages of this building method?

Calling John G... Calling John G... Where'd you go Buddy. Don't abandon us! That rascal Matt can sure steal a thread can't he! hahha


http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/Wow/Inconspicuous.jpg

[StressMan79]

although not required, lifting a 2000#log without heavy equipment is not easily done.
renting the heavy equipment can double the cost of the logs.
Peeling is no fun.
Cement is cheap. Until you get yards and yards of it. You need a sizable footer to support one of these.
Logs are not square, plumb, or level. Not for very far anyway. You'll prolly have to shim and notch to make things fit the way "they're sposed to"

If I were to do it again, I'd just do ICFs all the way up. Totally without the ambiance of a real log home, but everything is square, no Telehandler needed, overhangs aren't as vital, as replacing siding is not as big of a deal as your house falling down (rotting), no peeling, and the biggest thing for me is: the wife likes "modern" style, so logs don't really suit her fancy.

FWIW.

[rocklock]

although not required, lifting a 2000#log without heavy equipment is not easily done.
renting the heavy equipment can double the cost of the logs.
Peeling is no fun.

LHN That photo is photo shopped... funny, but as a dog owner whose dog can tell which way the bunny (can smell baby bunny buns) went, I object.:mad::eek:

about the above... given enough time and creativeness you can use a truck or tractor or something like that to lift logs the LHBA way...
Peeling can be really fun if you can get some one else to do it...

[FishingAddict]

although not required, lifting a 2000#log without heavy equipment is not easily done.
renting the heavy equipment can double the cost of the logs.
Peeling is no fun.
Cement is cheap. Until you get yards and yards of it. You need a sizable footer to support one of these.
Logs are not square, plumb, or level. Not for very far anyway. You'll prolly have to shim and notch to make things fit the way "they're sposed to"

If I were to do it again, I'd just do ICFs all the way up. Totally without the ambiance of a real log home, but everything is square, no Telehandler needed, overhangs aren't as vital, as replacing siding is not as big of a deal as your house falling down (rotting), no peeling, and the biggest thing for me is: the wife likes "modern" style, so logs don't really suit her fancy.

FWIW.

gotta say I myself like the honesty.
At what point Peter did the thought process change?
Did the bride join in on the class and have a change of heart or ??? I fret the change could happen - she's been looking at a gazillion small "cottage" style homes online and sending me links. I may end up doing the daily double...be ok by me as I could do a smaller log for my 6-9 month retreat and pack it in in winter. Was NOT my dream but I'm okay with it if thats what needs to be done. She flipped on me almost overnight...wants to be closer to her family part of it. Cool by me...until gas hits $5/gal ouch then

[John G]

Calling John G... Calling John G... Where'd you go Buddy. Don't abandon us! That rascal Matt can sure steal a thread can't he! hahha


Still here. Still watching. Amused. I have a friend who wears kilts. Don't think he ever stitched his own, tho. Good fellow.

Anyway, it's been an interesting discussion. I would have figured a few of the items on Matt's lists were indeed disadvantages. Apparently they're not. And while it's good to know that these things aren't disadvantages, it still kinda leaves me wondering what things are.

It's beginning to really sink in just how much work this could be. I don't mind good old fashioned hard work, but it does bring up a potential issue. Once it's done, once it's built, I can't see myself selling and moving away. I'll have too much of myself invested in it to ever consider leaving. So how do I pick the perfect spot, and how do I know I'm right?

I'll have to think on that one for a while.

[John G]

What are ICFs?

[rocklock]

insulated concrete form -The brand that I used is aarxx.
http://www.arxx.com/

John... If you build, then move, you will have an investment to take with you and some knowledge that will be invaluable for your next build..

[StressMan79]

well, fisher dude,

the wife did not take the class.

She is Thai, and can't figure my "I hate people" separatist attitude.

Actually (as members know) the cabin is kind of a last hoorah, since I have a terminal illness. The wife is plenty happy where she's at, but me being a tinfoil hat wearing-dollar crash worrying guy, I wanted a place in the country that my wife and I could bug out to if need be. Oh, and the wife hates construction. Mostly, she hates that I get a bit irked when things don't go exactly as planned. She did help me chink one member's place, 5 years ago, but told me when the block/tackle was not working right "I AM NOT A CONSTRUCTOR!"

Anyway, the wife is great except for not wholeheartedly supporting my dream. If we build in TH, we'll go with ICFs, but I could not live in ICFs on top of my mountain...

...Anyway, even if you don't build with logs, the LHBA is there for you (wiring/roofing/etc) so if you ever plan on building anything, I suggest being a member. But....Take the wife to the class!

-Peter

[loghousenut]

What I know about Peter (StressMan) is that he has a solid head on his shoulders and he's right on the money with everything he says. Take the spouse to class!!!

I too like ICF's but I could never live with a name like icfhousenut. There's something about logs, and building with logs, that either grabs you where the nerves are near the skin or it doesn't.

I really, really, REALLY like working with logs. I suppose I oughta live up to my commitment to the Boss and finish this log house for her but, to be completely truthful, I don't care if I'm ever done. I'd just as soon start stacking the next one.

If you newbies feel like I do about it, you're in the right spot and it's time to sign up for class. If you're not sure yet then keep reading til it either grabs you or it doesn't. Please at least know in your heart that this LHBA thing will work for you however you make it work. If you build a LHBA log home, it will be all YOU and nobody else. It will be stained with your own sweat, and your Grandkids will recognize the family odor. You'll get it done and you'll probably love the experience as much as you love the home. Nobody will ever touch your place and ask if you contracted with those folks out in Montana "Because this house looks just like that one we saw on the way to Reno". They'll rub the center ridgepole support and say "I wish Momma were alive so I could show her this place".

As for worrying about picking the perfect spot for your home... I'd say you should build the family home wherever the important part of the family lives. If the important part of the family moves... Build a new home. It's all about priorities, and the family is the important part. The rest is just a house.


Here's the Boss coming in for a landing... And her little dog too. haha

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/Floor8-2011022.jpg

[Mosseyme]

Matt F and John G, So glad you guys are taking the plunge. Someone said I'm taking a chance and signing up for class. If there was just a way for us to get it across to all those lurking souls out there that it is not taking a chance, it is taking a leap into knowledge and life that even if you never build a log house you will refer back to as a thought adjusting, lifechanging, life enriching experience for the rest of your life.

[hemlock77]

What I know about Peter (StressMan) is that he has a solid head on his shoulders and he's right on the money with everything he says. Take the spouse to class!!!

I too like ICF's but I could never live with a name like icfhousenut. There's something about logs, and building with logs, that either grabs you where the nerves are near the skin or it doesn't.

I really, really, REALLY like working with logs. I suppose I oughta live up to my commitment to the Boss and finish this log house for her but, to be completely truthful, I don't care if I'm ever done. I'd just as soon start stacking the next one.

If you newbies feel like I do about it, you're in the right spot and it's time to sign up for class. If you're not sure yet then keep reading til it either grabs you or it doesn't. Please at least know in your heart that this LHBA thing will work for you however you make it work. If you build a LHBA log home, it will be all YOU and nobody else. It will be stained with your own sweat, and your Grandkids will recognize the family odor. You'll get it done and you'll probably love the experience as much as you love the home. Nobody will ever touch your place and ask if you contracted with those folks out in Montana "Because this house looks just like that one we saw on the way to Reno". They'll rub the center ridgepole support and say "I wish Momma were alive so I could show her this place".

As for worrying about picking the perfect spot for your home... I'd say you should build the family home wherever the important part of the family lives. If the important part of the family moves... Build a new home. It's all about priorities, and the family is the important part. The rest is just a house.


Here's the Boss coming in for a landing... And her little dog too. haha

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/Floor8-2011022.jpg
Keep going like this, your name might have to be changed to doghousenut;)

[edkemper]

The new guests should also know that Stressman has property that is hard to get to. Hard to get logs and all other building supplies to his place. It's hard enough just to get your vehicle to his place at times. Put that on top of his other challenges, lifting and stacking logs becomes more of a hurdle as time passes.