Member of LHBA foryears but still no clear answer....

[BATMan_OIF]

I have read the posts over the years attempting to answer the basic question of 'how much does it cost to build a log home' and I haven't seen a clear answer yet. So I would like to ask that question in a different way (than what I have seen).

Simply put:
Lets use a very simple average house plan that is 2000 square feet. For simplicity sake, lets say the average cost to build that home using conventional 2' X 4' construction is $100 per square foot. The $100 per square foot cost already includes the costs included in counter tops, lighting and other 'variable' cost items in the home so lets just include everything in the home (except for personnel items) is included at that $100 per square foot.

The golden question is... what is the average cost per square foot to build the same home out of logs?

The answer to that questions ($$$) is the most convincing reason to build a log home. Does anyone have the answer that question?

[loghousenut]

Sorry. I don't have the answer and I'm predicting that you won't like the variety of answers you get here.

I do know that we can easily afford our home built the way we are building it. We are able to pay for it without a prohibitive lifestyle change and we appreciate what the process has done for our family.

Going slowly, as we are, the actual financial cost to us has probably been equal to the cost of a new car and a new truck, every year or two, for the Boss and I. The Suburban is almost at 300,000 miles but still in great shape. Sooner or later it'll be time to stick in a Diesel or part it out. At decision time I suspect that I will not get that new Duramax, but rather a 160,000 mile,$3,500 Suburban off of Craigslist.

I know... You were looking for an accountant's answer. You'll get a few but there are so many variables... And then there's labor.

[loghousenut]

PS... Build the home that you dream about. You'll probably like the process.

[panderson03]

batman, it really depends on what materials you use, how many high-end and luxury choices you make and how much of the stuff you hire out vs do yourself!!

[panderson03]

the answer you get will vary widely depending on the builder, but perhaps the qeustion you should be asking is 'what's the cost per square foot on your build'. then maybe some LHBA builders can talk about thier experiences. FWIW

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Well... there's just no clear answer.

I know of a beautiful log house (less than 2,000') that is almost finished. Price: $15,000 - $20,000
I know of a log house that is much larger than 2,000'. Price: Less than $35,000

It comes down to attitude. "Just how much cash do I want to part with", and "just how fast do I want a C.O.?"

I built houses with a bank and they were on my back about getting it done fast. No time to make my own trim package (figure an easy $20,000 loss), no time to install my own septic, or well, and no time to find bargains.

My guest house is stick framed because I found framing materials at a price that was just too spectacular to pass-up. The result was about a 12% increase over what the same shell would have cost from logs. Also a log shell would have changed other variables which would have dropped the cost by another 23%. So much for my bargain.

It's not just the shell, it's the lifestyle. Do you want a framed house with knock-down textured walls, or maybe Freedom (formerly French) polish walls, or will you be happy with milled pine or cedar walls in your log house? A few years back I found a monsterous supply of finish milled heart western red cedar for free. Now that wood can't be found at any price. That is certainly cheaper than drywall, or plaster. Do you want prefab cabinets (expensive) or spend several hours learning a new technique to build your own custom cabinets? You can save $15,000 right there, and the custom cabinets will be much nicer than the prefab units.

How about a large buffed stainless 'fridge, or maybe a perfectly fine several year old used (free of course!) refrigerator that is resprayed (electrostatic) to color match.

Do you want to find land the way Skip suggested, or must you have that particular spread of land your wife has; (all of a sudden) "always dreamed of." It will seriously limit your ability to negotiate terms and price if the seller sees your wife swooning over their land.

When asked about cost Skip said, "How much does it cost to buy a car?"

"Well... a few hundred for a worn-out Kia, or a few hundred thousand for a new Rolls Royce."

"Exactly."

The largest variable is the builder's attitude about letting go of money.

I do know there are ways to get cheap, or free housing in a downward trend economy, and log houses are just one of several ways to get inexpensive (not necessarily el cheap-o) accomodations. As just one example, right now (early 2012) 2/3 of all Nevada homes (that includes F&C properties) are underwater. That means you want to spend as little as possible for living quarters. The reason is;

a) Bargains are to be had out there (vacant land or improved)
b) We are a long ways from the bottom of the market. Spending excess money on a place to park my carcass every night is just plain foolhardy.


"Whether you rent, or whether you buy, you pay for the space you occupy." If you need a living space then in a down economy it is best to do it cheap, and log homes are a fun, and inexpensive way to accomplish affordable accomodations.

G'pa

[StressMan79]

The cost will be almost the same. WHY? you are quoting a cost of buying things retail. No time to look for deals. as such, you won't get one of the biggest cost savings--shopping deals. If you just buy things new from lowes, you will get minimal cost benefit. Take LHBA advice and collect stuff before your build and you can easily save 50%.

Peter

[BATMan_OIF]

I understand the answer - cost is relative to the amount of effort I put into finding cost savings and how much of the work I do myself. Ok, so let me clarify my question.

Original Question: "Lets use a very simple average house plan that is 2000 square feet. For simplicity sake, lets say the average cost to build that home using conventional 2' X 4' construction is $100 per square foot. The $100 per square foot cost already includes the costs included in counter tops, lighting and other 'variable' cost items in the home so lets just include everything in the home (except for personnel items) is included at that $100 per square foot.

The golden question is... what is the average cost per square foot to build the same home out of logs?"

Lets also assume I would do all the work up to the point that the home is 'dried in' (Foundation, septic, log home shell and roof). I will contract out the rest of the unfinished inside of the home.

Remember that $100 per square foot for the stick build home is completely contracted out (inside and out) and is a turnkey house. I am guessing the difference of cost per square foot would be significant but don't know what that is. I have been trying to convince my bride for years that this is a worthy effort in our goal to be more self sufficient and be close to our goal of owning our home free and clear. Her questions is always the same - what is the difference in cost per square foot?

[StressMan79]

My answer is: 2000 sf is a lot of house, try to slim it down.

take the class, for the price, you can't beat it. and if it isn't what you and your bride want, then get your money back, and have a vacation in Vegas.

OK, but cost per square foot... just building out of logs won't make much difference. what WILL is buying bargains. and doing it yourself, as you can afford it. You'll spend 2-3 times the purchase price by the time you pay off your mortgage. If you can live simply, you can build the whole thing for < 50% of the purchase price, which means that you'll spend less than 1/4 (and maybe < 1/8) of the price of buying it stick framed...

...and that doesn't count all of the benefits of building it yourself: you know exactly how it is wired and plumbed, you know how beefy the foundation is, cuz you put it in. You control the floorplan, it fits you.

so, effectively is is like buying a home that cost 25-50k (with a mortgage). That is as close to a real number that you will get from any member.

-Peter

...But don't forget land...

[rocklock]

The golden question is... what is the average cost per square foot to build the same home out of logs?
The answer to that questions ($$$) is the most convincing reason to build a log home. Does anyone have the answer that question?

So I would like to answer that question in a different way.

The answer to that questions ($$$) is the most convincing reason to build a log home. I disagree... Money is not the answer, at least not for me.

This is my analysis from my own log home. Basements and footer are necessarily more expensive because they support more weight. My roof is more expensive because it is about 10% larger than required for a stick frame home. All of the stuff inside is more or less about the same depending on what we can find... What is left is the log walls vs stick frame walls... It took me 12 1/2 days to stack my walls. I have seen stick frame walls go up in less time... Then you need to cut out doors and windows, clean and chink the stupid walls. And then do something to stain and preserve the logs. So to me it is clearly much more expensive to build log walls. But the bottom line, I don't pay for my time...

I have spoken to the county persons that estimate the value of my home... They use about 10% more in the valuing the value of my home. So, if it cost $100 per square foot (which I doubt - my estimate is about 70% of that, including the land) then it should cost about $110 per sqft... So to be clear, my home is about 2550 sqft. Do the math for costs...

[rckclmbr428]

I am a Log Home Builder, my turn key homes are around $150 a sq. ft. I have built places for less, and I have built places for more, but most middle of the road, contractor grade stuff, plus my labor comes out to around $150 a sq. ft. now I am working with some people that I will be building for, they have 200 acres of wooded land, access to a couple hundred more, zero codes or inspectors, They want to do alot of the work themselves, and they own a sawmill. The only real expense they are going to have is concrete for a basement, and metal for the roof, but they could easily get rid of the roof expense with doing hand split shingles. This question is often best answered by asking what an 80 yr. old butt smells like, Depends..

[BATMan_OIF]

Gentlemen - thank you for imparting your wisdom, I really appreciate it. Your answers have helped to fill in the blanks and just may provide the answers my bride has asked for. Again Thank you.

[hemlock77]

I can only speak for our house project. At this point in time we are about $5000 under budget that was set for this project back in 2005. On a per sq ft bases our original budget puts us at roughly $53 per sq ft. If I include the walkout basement area, it brings us roughly at $33 per sq ft. Of course I am one that invests more time than money on this particular project. Hope this helps.
Stu
http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u64/hemlock77/

[jrdavis]

Gentlemen - thank you for imparting your wisdom, I really appreciate it. Your answers have helped to fill in the blanks and just may provide the answers my bride has asked for. Again Thank you.

BATMAN --
You are in GOOD Company here.

I too was a BATMAN in OIF, OEF and OND. For those needing more info.
(Operation Iraqi Freedom 2005-2006, Operation Enduring Freedom 2009, Operation New Dawn 2010)

Feel free to PM me and lets talk.
Where are you at now?
LHBA is the real deal.

I built my own Stick frame for well under $100 a sq ft, BUT did alot of the work myself.
it is now 14 years old and starting to feels its "age".
Don't compare a Ford Ranger to a Duece And a Half... unless you just want a pickup.

Skip built his house and told the story of a guy who thought an earthquake would knock it over.... so Skip drove his CAT (D2, I think) into the side of the 50X50 house and it stalled the CAT! Try that with a stick built. :)
JD

[Basil]

I built a 2750 sq foot log home in kentucky, starting in 2005 and ending in 2008. Some things I splurged on, like paying soemone that knew what they were doing to lay the 1700 feet of tile, and building a huge wrap around porch...some things I scrimped on ( my huge kitchen with island has less than $150 in countertops) and my cost per square foot of heated living space is about $45...that cost included the almost 3500 sq feet of deck and porch.

[Kick Forward]

Hey Basil, where in southern Kentucky are you? Do you have blog or pics of your build? We're planning on moving to Berea and will hopefully buy land and build somewhere around there.

- Josh

sorry for mini-hijack.

[blane]

I have not finished my home yet but I am on track to spend 35-40 per square ft. I am not contracting out any work so you could triple that cost if you hire it out.

[sdart]

Hey Basil, where in southern Kentucky are you? Do you have blog or pics of your build?

Josh,
There are a couple of threads with lots of nice pictures of Basil's build on the members side of the forum, as well as a lot of helpful advice he gave from experience as he went along. I just looked at them again... wow! Just hang on a couple more weeks and you can see them yourself :)

Sarah

[Kick Forward]

eggscellent :cool:

[edkemper]

eggscellent :cool:

I look forward to you joining us on the other side. I think you're a little twisted. A lot like LHN's logs. Enjoy the class, see you on Monday.

[loghousenut]

Sure, he's a bit twisted, Ed...


http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/josh-profile-80x80.jpg



But not THAT twisted!



http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/Wow/1stsilllog8-26-09005.jpg


He'll not only fit right in... He'll probably finish his home before I do.

[Kick Forward]

I think that log needs to see a chiropractor. :D

[edkemper]

Kick,

I don't have a table that tree will fit on. Adjusting that tree would take a career.

[ziegler]

Just finished my place in Southeast Oklahoma. It's 1700 sq. ft and I spent less than 50k. I started in March of 2007 and finished last week. The most critical aspect (in my opinion) was the fact I didn't have any rural residential codes or permits. I have 30 acres of timber and several people within 20 miles that have mobile saw mills. The biggest facter that will influence cost will be where you build and the number of beaurocratic hoops you have to jump through. Just my 2 cents....I'll post pics within the week on the website

[dvb]

Batman,
I will answer your question if you can answer mine. I want to buy a car for my wife, she would like a 4 door sedan. How much will it cost me?
I do not want to seem rude, but you can see how many variables there are.

Sorry G'pa I see you already used this example.

[happyquilter]

Batman, here is a question for you: Do you LOVE log homes? Have you ever been in a real one? Not a kit home, but a big ole solid one made from nice big fat logs? When you go into a lodge, do you just want to live there forever? I have always loved rustic log lodges and historic pioneer cabins. I find myself caressing the logs and marveling at the whole thing. I get excited about the thought of doing all the work ourselves, learning lots of new skills, and building a true legacy.

Someone said earlier that it is not just about money. That is the truth. There are many different types of affordable homes. Build a log home if you want the fun of building and living in it. That is what my husband and I want.

I will suggest what the members told me when I was questioning: Take the class, and be sure to take your spouse. You will never regret it.

Shari

[Cruiser]

Ziegler, congrats on completing your home! We look forward to seeing the pictures.



Just finished my place in Southeast Oklahoma. It's 1700 sq. ft and I spent less than 50k. I started in March of 2007 and finished last week. The most critical aspect (in my opinion) was the fact I didn't have any rural residential codes or permits. I have 30 acres of timber and several people within 20 miles that have mobile saw mills. The biggest facter that will influence cost will be where you build and the number of beaurocratic hoops you have to jump through. Just my 2 cents....I'll post pics within the week on the website

[John W]

I'm with Cruiser, good job Ziegler. Can't wait to see the pictures. Sounds like the perfect size.

[Tom Featherstone]

Just finished my place in Southeast Oklahoma. It's 1700 sq. ft and I spent less than 50k. I started in March of 2007 and finished last week. The most critical aspect (in my opinion) was the fact I didn't have any rural residential codes or permits. I have 30 acres of timber and several people within 20 miles that have mobile saw mills. The biggest facter that will influence cost will be where you build and the number of beaurocratic hoops you have to jump through. Just my 2 cents....I'll post pics within the week on the website

So you been holden out on us eh Ziegler? Congrats!

[fabincabin]

Batman,
I will answer your question if you can answer mine. I want to buy a car for my wife, she would like a 4 door sedan. How much will it cost me?
A typical midsized sedan will cost you around $25000 give or take.

First day here so I don't want to make an enemies :D but I don't see the big deal in answering his question. Over at countryplans.com they have countless DIY builders who respond to this question. "It cost me about $30 s/f.. It cost me $55 s/f" etc.

I think the first question for most of us is, what can I expect it to cost. I plan on build something between 1200-1500 s/f. I'm hoping I can do it for under $50,000... so asking for a rough cost per s/f from those who have done it seems like a no brainier. I just don't see why the answer would be so difficult answer.:cool:

[fabincabin]

Excuse the grammar.. in fact just ignore that last sentence.. For the life of me I cannot locate an edit button to fix my typos.

[HardmanGT]

Fabincabin,
The best answer anyone can give is "it depends" What does it depend on you ask? Here is a partial list...

Do you want piers or a walkout basement?
mound septic or town sewer?
well or town water?
custom windows and doors or Craiglist treasure?
full, custom HVAC or a simple direct vent?
metal roof or asphalt?
granite counter tops or wooden slabs
buying dimensional lumber or having it milled on site?
can you do your own digging, septic, masonry, electric, plumbing, drywall, finishing?
do you own your own equipment or will you need to buy/rent?
are you trading labor with other members?

Everyone that has built the LHBA way has done it the way that THEY were able to. Maybe someone has done it for $50 sqft while someone else has done it for $10. There are way too many variables that will influence cost. Stick around here and you will be able to get a much better picture of who we are and how we approach things, and that's not just log home building.

[dvb]

Fabincabin,
First off I found a pretty good shape sedan for $250 but it needs a little paint, I also, found one that is $25,000 but it needs a little paint.

I am into my place for about $15,000 so far. I still need to put in the well, $7,500, and septic, $1,500, and about another 2,000 in materials. I have all my own equipment, harvested logs off of my property, did everything myself, paid cash for everything and spent 7 years doing it. I will be in for about $20 PSF. I know other people that have $100 PSF in their house because they are in a different situation. So, I guess the answer you are looking for is based on the information provided you should be able to build your own house for somewhere between $10 and $150 PSF. I paid $22,500 for three acres.

This is just not a question you can answer without a ton of information.

[BenB]

This harvest your own logs has to be worth $5000-$7000 I'd think ... but tossing that on what you have in it still close to only $30K. Sweet
This cannot include land cost though, can it? Sweet regardless but that would make it whipped honey.

[patrickandbianca]

Without land cost, I am going to be right at 28 dollars a sq ft. This includes our finished walkout basement.

Patrick

[rreidnauer]

The question may as well be as simple as one like, "What does an acre of land cost?" Of course, the answer is always going to be, "It depends."


I still need to put in the well, $7,500, and septic, $1,500, and about another 2,000 in materials.
There's a perfect example of why there is no answer to the question. $1500 for septic? That's great. For me (which I did myself to save cost of labor) still cost me $10,500. That's only one variable. Imagine the effect over all the variables of a complete build. Heck, permits alone can vary wildly depending on location. What it takes is a very keen mind, patience and fortitude to examine all avenues, and perhaps a bit of compromise, to get you into the numbers you seek.

There was a thread that asked some time ago, "What is your build budget?" My reply was that I simply don't have one. The job has to get done one way or the other, and I'll find the most cost effective means along the way to achieve that, but without cheaping-out on methods and materials. If it costs more than expected, the job will simply just take a little longer to complete.

[fabincabin]

Fabincabin,
The best answer anyone can give is "it depends" What does it depend on you ask? Here is a partial list...


Everyone that has built the LHBA way has done it the way that THEY were able to. Maybe someone has done it for $50 sqft while someone else has done it for $10. There are way too many variables that will influence cost. Stick around here and you will be able to get a much better picture of who we are and how we approach things, and that's not just log home building.

My friend, I think everyone understands there are countless variables... There are countless variables in building a stick house and yet we have a real good idea what a typical stick house will cost in terms of s/f.

The owners of this site thought it was important enough to mention what a number of students spent on their homes. One assumes that most of the labor will be done by the owner, hence the taking of the classes. I see now that a few people have responded with what it cost them in terms of s/f etc. This helps everyone to realize what can be achieved and is a much better answer than "It depends". Of coarse it depends. No one was asking for a quote. Just a rough guesstimate. For instance if a majority of students said it cost me $200,000 doing 90% of the labor.. well many people would know right off the bat that they want no part of it but when students reply and say it cost me roughly $35-$75 a s/f.... Well at least potential students have at median of $50s/f to think about.:D

[fabincabin]

The question may as well be as simple as one like, "What does an acre of land cost?" Of course, the answer is always going to be, "It depends."


There's a perfect example of why there is no answer to the question. $1500 for septic? That's great. For me (which I did myself to save cost of labor) still cost me $10,500. That's only one variable. Imagine the effect over all the variables of a complete build. Heck, permits alone can vary wildly depending on location. What it takes is a very keen mind, patience and fortitude to examine all avenues, and perhaps a bit of compromise, to get you into the numbers you seek.

There was a thread that asked some time ago, "What is your build budget?" My reply was that I simply don't have one. The job has to get done one way or the other, and I'll find the most cost effective means along the way to achieve that, but without cheaping-out on methods and materials. If it costs more than expected, the job will simply just take a little longer to complete.

The same variables applies to stick houses and yet we have a real good idea of the cost per s/f to build one. You can get a ballpark for anything by simply seeing what others have done in the past. It's just a guesstimate. You add the cost of 10 student cabins and divide by 10 and you have a rough guesstimate with all variables included.

[rreidnauer]

I'm going to have to disagree. Stick-built costs are pretty much the same across the board. You buy your lumber and sheathing locally at stores which are relatively the same price wherever you go. In contrast, getting a load of trees can vary immensely in price. It could be anywhere from free if harvesting off your own land, to 10's of thousands if you have them brought in from a long distance. If all you seek is an average, then you still haven't really gotten an answer. At least not one of much value.

[BarstowRat]

Perhaps the other site that has given prices deals differently. So if you assume that the log cabins they show are built in the same manner that a stick built house is, then sure, it would be easy to give you prices. If you figure that a group of people went to Log Depot and picked up a truck load of logs and built in already cleared land ready to build on, with all the tooling required, so on and so on, then the only real variable is going to be flooring and counters and such. But when you take into account that LHBA is promoting hand built log homes, to people with many different skill sets, you just can't give accurate numbers. In my time here I have read enough to know that the answer you seek does not in fact exist, only in theory. Lets look at some things:

Logs. Pine is cheap, Cedar is more, Redwood is a lot.
Can you harvest your own logs? Do you need to buy? Heck I have seen someone on here were given logs.

Land. How far from public utilities? My friend in KY said that the power company would charge him $10/cable ft, and $100 per pole at every 100yd. Do you need a road? Do you live in an area with a high aquafor which means a flooded basement or sinking house?

Codes. I think Code enforcement is tied into the Mob. Do you even have to worry about codes? Some places require earthquake codes, other places require you to have outlets every couple feet. I even read recently that ALL new homes in that area are required to have a sprinkler system installed into the house. How awful would that look? LOL

Amenities. Take a look at the kitchen, are you comfortable with a small, fair equipped kitchen, or do you need a Wolfgang Puck kitchen? Can you handle a standard fiberglass tub or do you require the million jet hot tub?

Flooring. Wood? Carpet? Italian marble with radiant floor heat?

Work. How much will you do yourself? How much CAN you do? For those things you can't do, will you buy a book and hire a friend, or will you go to the phone book and hire the first contractor? Do you have the tools, will you borrow the tools, rent them or buy them?


Answer these questions and they can give you a better answer. But until then you are just guessing, just as they are trying to answer you.

Joshua

[edkemper]

Joshua,

Dad gum'it, I think you got it figrd out pretty good. If that pendulum doesn't swing between the correct answers, I can't imagine what would. Nice job.

[panderson03]

Dear Mr BarstowRat. sounds like you'd do great as a LHBA member. when are you taking the class?

[Mosseyme]

It has been a long time since we built with stick even but i dont remember it being all that standard as per cost per sq ft. It seems to me you could be just about as accurate giving a $ per sq for log house as for stick if your parameters were only I want to build a 3000 sq ft log house/I w ant to build a 3000 sq ft stick house. I don't understand why it is so difficult to understand. In many cases the stick built contract can go 10-20 perrcent more than contract says.

[HardmanGT]

My friend, I think everyone understands there are countless variables... There are countless variables in building a stick house and yet we have a real good idea what a typical stick house will cost in terms of s/f.

The owners of this site thought it was important enough to mention what a number of students spent on their homes. One assumes that most of the labor will be done by the owner, hence the taking of the classes. I see now that a few people have responded with what it cost them in terms of s/f etc. This helps everyone to realize what can be achieved and is a much better answer than "It depends". Of coarse it depends. No one was asking for a quote. Just a rough guesstimate. For instance if a majority of students said it cost me $200,000 doing 90% of the labor.. well many people would know right off the bat that they want no part of it but when students reply and say it cost me roughly $35-$75 a s/f.... Well at least potential students have at median of $50s/f to think about.:D

I feel like we are going in circles here and not making any progress. You want to apply a formula from a standardized industry and apply it to LHBA self built homes. It will not ever work, sorry. If you truly want to know what it is going to cost YOU, and you alone, start crunching numbers and calculate it all out on your own.

Comparing 10 LHBA homes and averaging them isn't going to work, either. 10 different LHBA homes are going to have 10 wildly varying cost. This is what we have been trying to make you understand. This is also what you have yet to realize. I am not sure that we can make it any more clear for you, sorry.

[loghousenut]

Comparing 10 LHBA homes and averaging them isn't going to work, either. 10 different LHBA homes are going to have 10 wildly varying cost.


The operative word is WILDLY varying cost. That coupled with the fact that a lot of us are flakes who couldn't run a spreadsheet if it sat in front of us and gave directions in three languages.

[BarstowRat]

Dear Mr BarstowRat. sounds like you'd do great as a LHBA member. when are you taking the class?

Well like alot of us, when the funds are available. Hopefully before we move to OR since right now we are only a 2 hour drive from Vegas. Wife is finally getting on board, took some persuasion and a little manipulation... She thinks the zombie apocalypse is going to happen... Cabins are very fortified, Remote and farther from people, Out of sight out of mind. Whatever it takes right?

[fabincabin]

I feel like we are going in circles here and not making any progress. You want to apply a formula from a standardized industry and apply it to LHBA self built homes. It will not ever work, sorry. Sure it will. It works for everything. The formula is the exact same.. it makes no difference what it is. Honestly!


Comparing 10 LHBA homes and averaging them isn't going to work, either.10 different LHBA homes are going to have 10 wildly varying cost. I've already addressed this in my previous response. There are just as many variables in stick homes or any other project. That's what statistics are all about.. You collect your data from a large enough pool and arrive at a median cost.. the variables are built into the formula. It does not matter if it's a wedding, a house or income. The median income for Americans is somewhere around $40,000 ( Don't hold me to that). There are wild varying income levels, Some people make $400,000.. Some make $6000. Some people will spend $300,000 on their cabin and some people $15000. The variables are built into the formula... whatever it is. This does not mean it is futile to offer something much more specific than "It depends".



This is what we have been trying to make you understand. This is also what you have yet to realize. I understood it and accounted for it all the way back in my first post and again in my second and one last time in my third.:D

I am not sure that we can make it any more clear for you, Oh, I think anyone who has the required cognitive resources will read my posts and decide which one of us is confused.:cool:
sorry. Absolutely no need for you to apologies!

A few people have responded here with what it cost them.. I think the person who started the thread has some idea what is possible. I'll let you have the last word and then we can move on. Fair enough?

[fabincabin]

Fabincabin,
First off I found a pretty good shape sedan for $250 but it needs a little paint, I also, found one that is $25,000 but it needs a little paint.

I am into my place for about $15,000 so far. I still need to put in the well, $7,500, and septic, $1,500, and about another 2,000 in materials. I have all my own equipment, harvested logs off of my property, did everything myself, paid cash for everything and spent 7 years doing it. I will be in for about $20 PSF. I know other people that have $100 PSF in their house because they are in a different situation. So, I guess the answer you are looking for is based on the information provided you should be able to build your own house for somewhere between $10 and $150 PSF. I paid $22,500 for three acres.

This is just not a question you can answer without a ton of information. I'm not the one who asked the questions. I was just trying to help the person who did. We all understand the variables. The formula for arriving at a median cost accounts for the many different variables. Using your extremely small data pool, one can expect to pay around $80 a s/f. That number will change drastically as the pool increases. If everyone here who built a cabin were included, we would arrive at a median cost that would be very close to what most people paid. That's the neat thing about statistics, When done correctly, they offer very useful and accurate information.

[dvb]

fabincabin,
Why would you say it will cost me $80 PSF when I just told you it will be nearly $20 PSF?

[WornOut]

So we got a wood pile full of variables it seems like a stickbuilt or prolly a bamboo build even.
I may be super simplyfing this and let me have it if so but think it's just about kinda getting a feel for a general sf price range. The variables will be that -- variable.
Think the question easier addressed like this - "if I have my land and live near trees that are usable but I buying them - what kind of moola on average for a XX sf place, assuming I do the work, might I anticipate for the whole deal" lol
Septic-city water-sewer - power -- I get the "there is no way" to guess. Then again using these variable the same holds true with a sticker also assuming same variables.
Got ya all confused yet ?

I'd have said - what do you have, roughly, the log structure itself. Structure and unfinished. Better??? ;)
maybe not huh?

[exsailor]

fabincabin,
I am not a member. I can't even tell you when I will take the class, but I will. Why, because there is an direct financial benefit and it is positive life changing event. I have read much and understand exactly what the members here are trying to help you understand. Variables are called variables because in every area we build in, everything cost differently. I couldn't conceive building a log cabin in San Francisco, but with enough time and money it could be done. Even with you doing all of the labor and buying everything in the most frugal possible manner, the expense of fees, permits, and any number of numerous other costs associated with doing business in the big city would push the cost per square foot into an unknown and unpredictable amount. Why in the build process alone, every election will probably create new permit requirements which would completely change any estimates you previously made. By contrast using the same materials, the same labor, same plans and building in an area that doesn't require permits or at least not excessively, the cost per square foot is reduced considerably. Still you know the material cost to build the home in both places so you can say this is the cost per square foot, but not the actual costs or even a close estimate. Because you don't know all of the hidden cost in the form of permits and such in the area you plan to build in, you can't estimate the cost of either finished house per square foot. Now would you please post the formula that you can use for everything from weddings to building houses,that is something I just don't understand. I have no doubt that what I have just said makes your answer to your question any more attainable. Good luck

[hemlock77]

Well like alot of us, when the funds are available. Hopefully before we move to OR since right now we are only a 2 hour drive from Vegas. Wife is finally getting on board, took some persuasion and a little manipulation... She thinks the zombie apocalypse is going to happen... Cabins are very fortified, Remote and farther from people, Out of sight out of mind. Whatever it takes right?
That bit of information is helpful in the spirit of this thread. In this case, there is a potential need to zombie proof the house. While a log cabin is quite fortified, doors and windows are typically a weak point in any house. How much would this typically cost? Well that depends. In the case of the windows/ Are you going to spend thousands of dollars hiring a hiring a skilled blacksmith to fabricate you some zombie bars for the windows, or Do you have the fabrication/welding skills necessary to make them out of left over re bar? Are you you going to have the zombie bars closeable and lockable, for a quick emergency escape? In the case of the door, All commercially available exterior doors can be easily taken out with a 30lb drift bar in less than 10 seconds. Not adequate for keeping those pesky zombies out, they are stronger than you think. Will you spend $5000 to have a skilled craftsman fabricate your 6 inch thick zombie proof doors, or can you make them your self for easily under $100. I once Saw an antique 5" thick door that a guy was selling at a swap meet for $300.

[hemlock77]

We all understand the variables. The formula for arriving at a median cost accounts for the many different variables. Using your extremely small data pool, one can expect to pay around $80 a s/f. That number will change drastically as the pool increases. If everyone here who built a cabin were included, we would arrive at a median cost that would be very close to what most people paid. That's the neat thing about statistics, When done correctly, they offer very useful and accurate information.

While using Typical statistical data may be useful for planning a average case scenario. Just the task of trying to get a large enough sample from this group is to achieve any degree of accuracy is just unlikely to happen. To be honest my best educated guesstimate is that the mean sq ft cost is somewhere between $40-$80 per sq ft. If you use Statistical data to build a strict budget guide, you really are limiting your abilities. Rather than ask the question, What is typical? The better question to ask is, What is possible?

At the end of the day you will have to make the decisions of how and what, plan for a retail scenario and physically crunch the numbers. My original Budget plan Was a little above the high end of my earlier stated Guesstimate. Due to the fact that I continue to ask the question what is possible, at each line item/stage of the build, (as of this week) we are on track to come in Just around $50 per sq ft. give or take $8 per sq ft, we still have some variables to contend with. If I count the 920 sq ft of the walkout basement that brings us in at $32 a sq ft.

[John W]

I wrote a long answer that pretty much sounded like everybody else, except not as smart, so I deleted it. But how about this take on it. It doesn't matter one bit. The question that matters is, how much do you want to spend on the house? Know what? If you say $40,000, you can do that. Cheap land, lots of work yourself, searching for deals and maybe second hand stuff. If you say $150,000, you can do that too. Nicer plot, nicer kitchen, rent a crane. But take your budget, split it up for land, permits, water, sewage, type foundation, roof, etc, etc, etc. Figure out what you can do, what you want to do, what you can't do, and go from there. If the budget doesn't add up, figure out how you can do more yourself. And here's the big secret they don't tell you if you're over budget. You need better friends, preferably bored ones that want something to do. You need a friend with a crane, one with a sawmill, an electrician, a plumber and a roofer. :)

[edkemper]

I have to add my favorite story. One of our members, I don't remember who it is, built their home for something like $28,000. And they were complaining because their extensive fireplace cost $12,000 out of that total.

In the case of a bell curve, it'd be short and wide.

[fabincabin]

fabincabin,
I am not a member. I can't even tell you when I will take the class, but I will. Why, because there is an direct financial benefit and it is positive life changing event. I have read much and understand exactly what the members here are trying to help you understand. Variables are called variables because in every area we build in, everything cost differently. I couldn't conceive building a log cabin in San Francisco, but with enough time and money it could be done. Even with you doing all of the labor and buying everything in the most frugal possible manner, the expense of fees, permits, and any number of numerous other costs associated with doing business in the big city would push the cost per square foot into an unknown and unpredictable amount. Why in the build process alone, every election will probably create new permit requirements which would completely change any estimates you previously made. By contrast using the same materials, the same labor, same plans and building in an area that doesn't require permits or at least not excessively, the cost per square foot is reduced considerably. Still you know the material cost to build the home in both places so you can say this is the cost per square foot, but not the actual costs or even a close estimate. Because you don't know all of the hidden cost in the form of permits and such in the area you plan to build in, you can't estimate the cost of either finished house per square foot. Now would you please post the formula that you can use for everything from weddings to building houses,that is something I just don't understand. I have no doubt that what I have just said makes your answer to your question any more attainable. Good luck

exsailor,
I'm not the one asking the question. I was trying to help the person who asked the question. If you have not figured out the formula up till now..... I really can't help ya.
As I've said a half dozen times already, there are as many variables in building a stick house, or planning a wedding as there are in building a cabin I'm not sure why you and a few others believe variables are unique to cabin building. Ask the same question at countryplans.com and the builders are happy to respond with what they spent.. The site owner even tells you that most people build their houses for $30-$50 a s/f range. The variables are no different for the builders over there then there are here. It really isn't that hard to come up with a rough estimate.. You keep insisting that its impossible but it's not. it's no difference than coming up with a rough estimate for a wedding.

You asked me about the formula.. I've already explained it but I'll repeat one last time. You get as many builders as possible ( cabin builders, stick builders, Shed builders.. Wedding planners) and you add all of those costs together and divide by the number of people who participated. This will give you an median cost of construction a cabin or having a wedding. Assuming the pool is large enough, the cost will be fairly close to what most people spend. This is not complicated stuff.

I'm officially done with this thread. I've got some cabin planning to do.

[Mosseyme]

Rckclmbr, Ok so he is done with this, but out of curiosity, you have built as many lhba log cabins in different styles as anyone currently on here. So after all the discussion, So what does it cost to build a log cabin the lhba way? And if you answer that, then can you tell me what will that number mean to me about how much it will cost me to build a log house the lhba way?

[hemlock77]

exsailor,
I'm not the one asking the question. I was trying to help the person who asked the question. If you have not figured out the formula up till now..... I really can't help ya.
As I've said a half dozen times already, there are as many variables in building a stick house, or planning a wedding as there are in building a cabin I'm not sure why you and a few others believe variables are unique to cabin building. Ask the same question at countryplans.com and the builders are happy to respond with what they spent.. The site owner even tells you that most people build their houses for $30-$50 a s/f range. The variables are no different for the builders over there then there are here. It really isn't that hard to come up with a rough estimate.. You keep insisting that its impossible but it's not. it's no difference than coming up with a rough estimate for a wedding.

You asked me about the formula.. I've already explained it but I'll repeat one last time. You get as many builders as possible ( cabin builders, stick builders, Shed builders.. Wedding planners) and you add all of those costs together and divide by the number of people who participated. This will give you an median cost of construction a cabin or having a wedding. Assuming the pool is large enough, the cost will be fairly close to what most people spend. This is not complicated stuff.

I'm officially done with this thread. I've got some cabin planning to do.
No what You are asking for is not difficult to understand. It is that it will not Have any degree of accuracy with this model of lhba style construction. This construction style is unique compared to stick built in several ways. First sourcing the logs alone can vary your build cost as much as 20 per sq ft or more depending on where you live and the decisions that one makes. For the most part, lumber for a stick built house has fairly standardized pricing. That alone makes it very unique compared to stick built. Here is the big problem with what you are asking, getting a large enough sample to come up with an accurate mean cost to build. Even if you are able to get people to voluntarily give you cost figures, my guess is only a handful would. There just simply aren't enough of these home to get an accurate test sample. There are literally thousands of stick built homes for every butt and pass cabin. Add to that most of these cabins tend to be built where the trees live, a hand full of people building in Kansas might skew the results on the formula. So yes I completely understanding what you are asking for, I also understand the fallacies of statistics. Comparing apples and oranges will not give you an accurate price for a pomegranate.

Oh by the way, just because a web site(who is in the business of selling house plans) through out some arbitrary numbers, that does not make them accurate. If your goal is accurate planning, you will just have to do the work and actually crunch the numbers. If you are just trying to figure out if it can be builtt for X per sw ft, it can but it will depend largely on the planning decisions you make.

[fabincabin]

No what You are asking for is not difficult to understand. It is that it will not Have any degree of accuracy with this model of lhba style construction. This construction style is unique compared to stick built in several ways. First sourcing the logs alone can vary your build cost as much as 20 per sq ft or more depending on where you live and the decisions that one makes. For the most part, lumber for a stick built house has fairly standardized pricing. That alone makes it very unique compared to stick built. Here is the big problem with what you are asking, getting a large enough sample to come up with an accurate mean cost to build. Even if you are able to get people to voluntarily give you cost figures, my guess is only a handful would. There just simply aren't enough of these home to get an accurate test sample. There are literally thousands of stick built homes for every butt and pass cabin. Add to that most of these cabins tend to be built where the trees live, a hand full of people building in Kansas might skew the results on the formula. So yes I completely understanding what you are asking for, I also understand the fallacies of statistics. Comparing apples and oranges will not give you an accurate price for a pomegranate.

Oh by the way, just because a web site(who is in the business of selling house plans) through out some arbitrary numbers, that does not make them accurate. If your goal is accurate planning, you will just have to do the work and actually crunch the numbers. If you are just trying to figure out if it can be builtt for X per sw ft, it can but it will depend largely on the planning decisions you make.


...Can't resist the urge to respond!!


So you are parroting the same nonsensical argument that a few others are. "It is impossible to apply the same formula that is applied to every thing else on the face of the earth because the building of a cabin in the ihpa style includes mysterious variables that do not apply to anything else." The countless variables such as land, location, supplies and design are unique to the ihpa style of cabin building! I get it!!! I finally get it. I think I'm going to change my moniker to "talkingtoawall" after this experience.

[BoFuller]

Okay, fine. It cost $199,000

Are you happy now?

[hemlock77]

First of all, as already stated, sourcing logs is not a mysterious variable, it is a very specific one that has a much larger cost range vs dimensional lumber and plywood. There are at least 5 more lhba specific variables, but to go into them will be fruitless at this point. Second as already explained the test sample would be just too small for your formula to be accurate.
There is a huge difference between formula/theory and real world application.

[fabincabin]

Okay, fine. It cost $199,000

Are you happy now?
I'm happy to begin with.. If you were to read the entire thread,you would understand that I'm not the one asking how much things cost. I was assisting the person who asked by offering the typical basic everyday commonsense formula by which he could get a rough estimate. I don't know if I'm talking to fast for y'all or what.;) I'm sure y'all are a bunch of nice people but you sure get easily confused.

[HardmanGT]

I think that we are the ones talking to a wall :rolleyes:

[loghousenut]

Why are we gangin' up on fabincabin?

Look back to when he jumped in, somewhere in the middle of this thread, and read what he says from start to finish. Here's a guy (a gal wouldn't put up with us) who shows an interest in doing exactly what I am doing. He wants to build a home/cabin with his own hands. He must like what he sees here or he woulda left by now. If I was going to fault his analytical way of going about it, I'd have to fault Stressman, Rocklock, Loghomeguy, Mosseyme, Steve and a bunch of other guys/gals who I admire and wish I could emulate. If he'd been on my jobsite he would have caught at least half of our dumas mistakes. I am CERTAIN that he would have corrected me that time when I was at the lumberyard and ordered only 1/2 of the T&G for our roof!

In one of his first posts, fabincabin said "A typical midsized sedan will cost you around $25000 give or take.", in his attempt to illustrate that any commodity can be priced to a certain extent. He's right.

He goes on to say that he "gets it" when we say that this thing that we do can't be nailed down that tightly, and that there are a lot of variables. I can't fault him for saying that he gets it and then wondering why he's read some of the figures that are bantied about in class. He gets it. He's simply pointing out how confusing it is to the rest of them. You know who the "rest of them" are... The rest of them are the future LHBA members who are currently reading the posts that are in the "General discussion about log homes and cabins" part of our public forum.

Fortunately this guy sticks up for himself instead of clicking the mouse button that deletes us. I could never teach the LHBA class so I'm kinda talking out my posterior ,BUTT, If I were teaching the class I'd welcome fabincabin as the future of what happens here in our little club. He's got a good head on his shoulders and I'll bet he'd be a lot of help (and fun) on the members side.

[BoFuller]

It really ticks me off when my little brother corrects me, and is right. Really ticks me off.

[Mosseyme]

LHN. Well put. And yes i do look forward to hearing from fabin from the other side. We do understand the question but i personally will never be able to answer it. I think i even asked it myself a couple of years ago. It is a natural first question. We do not have a plan at all as to how much it will cost. We are simply going forward a step at a time in the order that the initial steps to a house have to be done some times we get the steps out of order due to necessity but we keep pluging along. When we are asked how long it will take us i say don't know. Dont know if i will ever live in this house but sure am enjoying the journey. When we finish i still won't be able to say how much it cost to build a log house

[edkemper]

I think it's time to pop a top and sit back and enjoy a beer. I'll buy the first one for Fabincabin.

[VinceHarris]

**Everything I say is intended to be helpful, I posted this and then re-read it and I kinda sounded like a prick to myself so I am editing it and saying this is all coming with good intent**

I haven't read this WHOLE thread but I have been keeping up with most of it. So here is my take on how much it costs.

Being new to LHBA, I don't know how much it will cost, but what I do know is I don't care I am going to build a log home! Its a desire that I have so I will get there. The way I see it is the same as if someone were to want to become a Helicopter Pilot. How much does that cost? Well knowing from experience it all depends on how fast you finish the training, which school you go to and if you want to have a private or commercial license. Same goes with every other desire in life!

This does have my attention though. I want to know how much it will cost, so when its all said and done hopefully in less than 3 years :) I will post a picture like the one that is attached except that picture will be full of the expenses of my WHOLE build! So in 3 yrs whoever asked this question will have a definite concrete answer of how much it cost ME to build my cabin! Until then my advise to anyone that hasn't taken the class is too.... wait for it..... TAKE THE CLASS! Worth every penny even if you never build a Log Home!

The question I had to answer for myself was, Do I want to build a log home?

595

[edkemper]

Vince,

Welcome, you make me smile.

It'll cost more than we want but cheaper than it'd cost to buy a finished house. Deduct from that the labor you and your friends will provide. Add a few cases of beer so you have some left to toast the completion.

There's no way to figure how much per square foot. One 30x30 will cost $10,000 to build. There will be one or more that cost $100,000+. The majority of those that plan on living in them will probably build for less. Those that plan on selling them before they even start, will likely pay more.

If Lowes sold real whole logs, we could do better at averaging a cost. But then you got those of us that collect almost everything they'll need by recycling used stuff. There are even those that build their own tools.

Does that help clarify? <smile>

Haven't even started to clear and build my place. So I'm not of much help on the cost of even one. But it won't cost more than I have. As long as I have enough time.

[Tom Featherstone]

Pretty good discussion here that I think some people might be asking the same questions. By Fabincabin's estimate of a small sample 50/80 $ s/f is a real good number. Those numbers don't include what labor is included into the numbers on a LHBA log home and don't reflect the Valuation of what the Log Home is worth which is nothing more than speculation again because of the current economy and varies hugely depending upon location.

A stick frame house today costing $110-150 per s/f includes labor, not land, and currently is not worth a dime more. Then there's this "Apples to Apples" comparison. A 2x6 frame "industry standard" construction is no comparison to an average 12" diameter log home. A "industry standard" house today will probably not see 50yrs of life without major reinvestment. The LHBA log homes built like we are taught will out last all of us including our kids and grandkids unless Mother Nature says otherwise.

What Fabincabin has done is solidified how Valuable the LHBA method is. People with much smaller budgets can build themselves a substantial Home for much less if need be. There's not much wiggle room on buying 2x6's, vinyl siding and such .....

Hope we see Fabincabin on the Members side. He'll have much better access to more information for running statistics that in my opinion will only further what we members already believe. Then again, he may just say to hell with all those numbers and get on to building his place.

The original poster of this thread "Member of LHBA foryears" didn't have a "LHBA Member" after his name...hmmmm? Did we all take the bait? :eek:

[LogLover]

I been folowing this one, laughing at times, scratching me noggin at times and admit gotten frustated a bit at times too.
I dunno Tom - think he asked, based on final question/sentence a general question or thought that many have to this process - on average , if I desire to do this, just what the dickens am I getting myself into? I've moved beyond that but still like to hear the general numbers that get tossed around for my mental thought process. Plus the woman waaaay more so asks it all the time. She looks at the cost for 2 to the class in total and gets this vision of "that could be my new Arab or maybe a Morgan be nice this time" vs the class cost and then "how much buddy we tosses at another of your things?"
So - I don't think he had tossed a line with a baited hook out for all ___ but was seeking some kind of reassurance that this is/was for him/her
I could be wrong, and certainly not for the first, time but I honestly don't think so

[jrdavis]

FabinCabin,

Example:
Trajet oval 8 jet, deep tub - retail $3900
Lowes 5 ft. metal tub ------ retail $ 200
Craigslist oval 8 jet Deep Tub from Remodeled home with gold plated fixtures - $250 bucks. (my wife purchased)

a tub is not a tub.
I'm not a bell curve kind of guy
*I* don't like being "averaged"

variables are important.
BUTT (lhn smile) I like your style and spunk.

come on back now, ya hear!!!
JD

[dvb]

Maybe a good answer would be an average LHBA house will cost about $65 PSF. Some cost as little as $20 PSF by utilizing all of the tricks taught in the class and a lot of personal time. Some may cost as much as $100 or more using contractors for everything and getting it done fast. Of course some were done fast (< 1 Year) and still cost less than $65 PSF. How much do you want to spend or save?

[BarstowRat]

That bit of information is helpful in the spirit of this thread. In this case, there is a potential need to zombie proof the house. While a log cabin is quite fortified, doors and windows are typically a weak point in any house. How much would this typically cost? Well that depends. In the case of the windows/ Are you going to spend thousands of dollars hiring a hiring a skilled blacksmith to fabricate you some zombie bars for the windows, or Do you have the fabrication/welding skills necessary to make them out of left over re bar? Are you you going to have the zombie bars closeable and lockable, for a quick emergency escape? In the case of the door, All commercially available exterior doors can be easily taken out with a 30lb drift bar in less than 10 seconds. Not adequate for keeping those pesky zombies out, they are stronger than you think. Will you spend $5000 to have a skilled craftsman fabricate your 6 inch thick zombie proof doors, or can you make them your self for easily under $100. I once Saw an antique 5" thick door that a guy was selling at a swap meet for $300.

Good thoughts. I am a welder and working on learning some blacksmithing, however I think that prison bars will detract from the over all appearance of the cabin. The door will be 6" thick and pinned with wrought iron nails, and a beam lock on the inside (like a castle). Windows will have bear "proof" shutters and a little something else. Completely submerged basement... and just cause I'm still a kid at heart and glutton for punishment, i will have an escape tunnel (always wanted a tunnel). Just hope zombies don't master fire lol

[edkemper]

I'd love to use the log pieces I cut out for the windows to make storm covers for the windows. Set the window at the end side edge of the window buck and give as much room as possible to fabricate the covers. Like the windows disappearing.

[happyquilter]

Oh darn, I read this whole thread and was about to respond with my wisdom, then I noticed the thread was pretty much dead. But that won't stop me, lol!

Here's my theory and it was inspired by fabincabin talking about averaging the cost of weddings:

My husband and I got married in the living room of our first house 27 years ago with only our closest friends and family members present. Mom made the cake and everyone brought a dish. Joyous Perfect Day!! Cost: The marriage license, a new dress, a bottle of champagne, and some pink heart decorations.

My cousin's daughter recently got married at their country club. I cannot even begin to describe how elaborate it was! I'm sure it cost them more than my log cabin will cost me.

Even if you averaged the cost of every wedding on earth (huge pool!), the resulting number would not mean a thing to any one couple.

So here is my nugget.... If your wedding resembled mine, or you got married in Las Vegas at the LHBA class, you cabin will cost under $50,000. If your wedding resembled my cousin's daughter's, your cabin will cost over $300,000. How much did/will your wedding cost on the sliding scale of possible weddings? The cost of your cabin will probably fall at about the same spot on the cabin cost scale.

Boom!

Shari

[Mosseyme]

Shari,,,
You are one smart woman!!!!

[loghousenut]

I too think you're on to something.


On a related note. My Wife has been helping a good friend spend too much money planning the upcoming wedding of her college student Son (an old Scouting friend of our Son). There has seemed an air of unnecessary urgency and we all assumed there was an impending visit from Mr. Stork.

Just last night my Wife accidentally came across the secret reason for the urgency... The kids are already married. Probably been two months now and it has been easy to hide because they live 3 hours away.

I am so ashamed of them. Instead of showering the newlyweds with public praise, the Parents (mostly the female parent) are piling up debt on white lace, elegance and a great showy display that is all based on a lie.

The saddest part, to me, is that the Kids were both fairly open and public about their vow to remain chaste until marriage. Their commitment, that meant so much, seems somehow cheapened.

Thanks for forcing me to vent like this. I'll stand back and watch and try no to be too cynical.



PS... I will hold my tongue and be thankful for every $1,000 she spends at Costco for every rehearsal dinner, as well as each of the receptions... Oh, did I neglect to mention that they will have the main wedding and reception 12 hours north, where the new in-laws live, and then a reception where they go to school, and then the "main" reception here locally. Luckily each event will be held in a Costco town. Now's the time to buy stock.



PS again... I am supposing the Kids will want a basic 30x30 with a loft. The folks will probably shame them into a 6,000 square foot MacMansion kit house with an attached 30 year note.

[Tom Featherstone]

Great response Shari! And it brings up a point in general about how "we" are partially responsible for the current problems we face as a country today. "Wants vs Needs". This has gotten so out of wack with most people and of what "Things" are truly important. Wether a $300,000 wedding or kit home/any mcmansion doesn't guarantee one day of happiness in the future but somehow it has been created that "we" need these things in our life to be so.

I'll be investing in Costco as soon as the fake money markets reopen after the weekend and I'll take bets on how long Ron can hold his tongue....

[Sage]

There are a lot of different factors involved. I would guess 220 a sq ft. for average turn key

[Plumb Level]

Shari - you nailed it!

Here are some other ideas:

If your pickup has over 100,000 miles on it and a little rust, your house will cost 50,000.

If you drive an 2012 F250 diesel crew cab lariat (and you trade it out every other year); and once a year you use it to pull a single axle 5 x 10 trailer to get mulch...your house will cost 300,000.

[happyquilter]

Haha Plumb Level, right on! My vehicle has over 100,000 miles on it and a little rust. I think I'm seeing a trend here!

[edkemper]

Mine has 175,000 on it without rust. Just got back from a 750 mile round trip to drop off about a ton or so at my property. What will my place cost?

[ncgator]

Call me frugal too. 1995 RAM 2500 diesel with 385k miles, some rust and it does need some new tires and a paint job. Mechanic thinks it still has 250K left in it before engine rebuild. Maybe I can get the house done before the rebuild, so I better get started soon:)

[loghousenut]

I have a '95 Suburban with 300,000 miles and a School Bus... I suppose that means I'm already over budget on the house and have to quit.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/Our%20Home/The%20homesite/Driveway4-1-4-2-09001.jpg

[burldude]

met Jack in 1985 in Morro Bay I asked him to sum up in one sentence,health and nutrition and he said," If man makes it, don't eat it"!

[spiralsands]

met Jack in 1985 in Morro Bay I asked him to sum up in one sentence,health and nutrition and he said," If man makes it, don't eat it"!

I had to back up through this whole thread to try to understand how Jack LaLane figured into the conversation. I think I missed it.

[loghousenut]

I had to back up through this whole thread to try to understand how Jack LaLane figured into the conversation. I think I missed it.

Jack LaLane? I thought he was talkin Jack Nicholson!

Don't let her give you any guff, burldude... Dang kids don't understand the subtle changes that take place during the aging process.






ahhaahhaaa!

[sdart]

I had to back up through this whole thread to try to understand how Jack LaLane figured into the conversation. I think I missed it.

It's in ChainsawGrandpa's signature... but as far as I can tell he only posted once on this topic, on the 1st page! LOL

[ChainsawGrandpa]

I'm baaack....

So, LHN, I see the MB (W115?) is still sitting there.
You already told me once but I forgot the price, model,
miles, etc. Of course I have all the time in the world to
rebuild the car. Maybe I can squeeze it in between 2 -
4 AM every night.

As a side note, I've been eating like Jack. Not a lot of
fun but I do feel much better and have more energy.


G'pa

[loghousenut]

Eating like Jack?

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/jack_portrait_web-1.jpg




Let sleeping dogs lie... Lie down beside a cigarette, lighter, coffee, and a big ole hamburger. He'll wake up in time for breakfast at 10:00am.

-Jack

[Deedee]

Umm ok I might be buying into something that was already closed as a conversation but I would like to ponder the following. There are far too many variable to get an accurate cost to construct p/s ft. But what about an approximate for a shell construction because the fittings will always be an issue. Even plumbing and electrics. 2,000 sq ft someone might have 2 bathrooms others one and on it goes. But how treating it something like a materials list the way quantity surveyors do ie:the following;
2,000 sq ft log house shell
1. Approx how many logs for standard single level living? (If they have to be purchased then then you multiply per log for your location)
2. Slab cost or piers (DIY or contractors)
3. Roofing costs for tin (DIY or contractors)
I think the main problem with the costing is that us not in the know have zero idea of how many logs we need. Thats the scary part.
What is the cost of a 30 foot log from a mill? How much do they vary? I can get labour costs quoted per day but the other factor is how many logs a day can 2 men put up?
It really is a crap shoot in some ways, but it would be the most amazing feeling to have one completed that you did yourself from scratch so to speak.

[panderson03]

you ask good questions, Dee.
my responses below will be regarding our 36x36 garage
1) we are not allowed to have the garage taller than 20ft, and our logs are 18" off the ground, so we decided to go up 12 courses (so there's 48 logs in our walls .... plus 1 for a girder, 3 for ridgepole support logs, and 1 ridgepole). so there's 53 logs in our garage

that gives us a nice main floor with 10' head space and a nice loft too!!
2) footings (4' deep per requirements here) and frost wall cost us approx $9000 or so ( we did both the footings and frost walls ourselves, hiring a pump truck on the day of the pour.

3) roof cost us about $10,000 for rafters, plywood and sheet metal mainly

don't know how much a 30 ft log from a mill would be but we paid $80 for each of our 40 ft logs and $100 for each of our 50 ft logs

welcome to LHBA. glad you're here!

[loghousenut]

It really is a crap shoot in some ways, but it would be the most amazing feeling to have one completed that you did yourself from scratch so to speak.

You said a mouthful there Kid. It IS a crap shoot and it IS the most amazing feeling seeing it all come together.

It all costs money and time. Three miles from where I work there is an outfit that makes really cool log kit houses. Before we pulled the trigger on building our dream home we stopped in there for ideas. The one floorplan that caught our eye was almost the same size as our place and would have been a great house. Cost was $180,000 and that would set up the shell and the rafters and give a person a place to put a roof, floors, doors, windows, wiring, plumbing, insulation (everywhere but the walls), cabinets, plumbing, you get the picture. Oh, and the building site would have to be graded and the foundation ready to go before they could start stacking logs.

That means I woulda been $180,000 in debt before my first nasty splinter. I really like the home we are building and will own free and clear when it's all done.

[Deedee]

Thanks for all that info it really helps! even the log count x your cost gives a starting point. thanks for not beating me up for asking haha have a lovely day :rolleyes:

[Deedee]

LHN I used to be called the mouth in black! always yapping and asking questions LOL

i have told the bf that i might be trading up and finding me a lumberjack!! you log builders are worth a pretty penny haha

love the principles you have of debt free and something tangible the grandkids will be able to grow up and know grandpa built this for his family and it not be a pioneer story. it is very much a modern day realisation that unfortunately lots of people wold love to do but few people can do. there are so many factors stopping people such as employment restrictions, needs to be near schools and hospitals, family connections etc the list goes on and some men and women just dont have the physical ability to do it so they need labour and that adds so much to the cost.

you will have achieved somethig great for your family. a man who houses his family with his own bare hands. thats pretty cool LHN!!

[edkemper]

some men and women just dont have the physical ability to do it so they need labour and that adds so much to the cost.

who you talking about? I'm 61. Had minor knee surgery years ago. Since '05 I had abdominal surgery, just had my 4th shoulder surgery. In about 6-8 weeks I will have total knee replacement on both knees. Next year we hope to start building. If it's importantt enough you'll find a way. Oh, I forgot the wrist/thumb reconstruction a few years back. My wife will be the boss on the job.

What we lack in strength we make for in knowledge from here.

[rreidnauer]

love the principles you have of debt free and something tangible the grandkids will be able to grow up and know grandpa built this for his family . . . . . .
That reminds me. The property my grandfather built was recently sold off. A real shame. He was very poor, and he built everything himself, manually. That included hand digging out the basement and driveway cut straight out of a solid rock wall that was formed when a road was carved down the hillside. (was cheap property, due to the inaccessibility, and being a very narrow lot) I know it sounds like the ol' "walked to school in 4' snowdrifts, barefoot and uphill both ways" story, but it's true. It was amusing, that as far back as I can remember, nothing changed in that house. (as would be expected by someone who had lived such a poor lifestyle, since replacing things for just the sake up updating would have been wasteful) Same pictures, same furniture, everything. Always brought back childhood memories when I'd stop in. (I'd even pull open a drawer where the crayons would have been kept when I was a kid, and they'd still be in there!) It's sad to see that place is no longer in the family.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/titantornado/gpops_house.jpg

[Mosseyme]

That life style of raising is why the wall paper in my bedroom is 28 years old. I knew when I pick everything I better like it because Gary believes in if its not broke don't fix it. Well now due to invasions and wall punching I will get new color in the bedroom cause you can't match 28yo wall paper and if I have some stashed away somewhere I am not going looking for it!!!Ha!!

[Deedee]

who you talking about? I'm 61. Had minor knee surgery years ago. Since '05 I had abdominal surgery, just had my 4th shoulder surgery. In about 6-8 weeks I will have total knee replacement on both knees. Next year we hope to start building. If it's importantt enough you'll find a way. Oh, I forgot the wrist/thumb reconstruction a few years back. My wife will be the boss on the job.

What we lack in strength we make for in knowledge from here.

i think you might be invincible LOL

[Deedee]

That reminds me. The property my grandfather built was recently sold off. A real shame. He was very poor, and he built everything himself, manually. That included hand digging out the basement and driveway cut straight out of a solid rock wall that was formed when a road was carved down the hillside. (was cheap property, due to the inaccessibility, and being a very narrow lot) I know it sounds like the ol' "walked to school in 4' snowdrifts, barefoot and uphill both ways" story, but it's true. It was amusing, that as far back as I can remember, nothing changed in that house. (as would be expected by someone who had lived such a poor lifestyle, since replacing things for just the sake up updating would have been wasteful) Same pictures, same furniture, everything. Always brought back childhood memories when I'd stop in. (I'd even pull open a drawer where the crayons would have been kept when I was a kid, and they'd still be in there!) It's sad to see that place is no longer in the family.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/titantornado/gpops_house.jpg

what an incredible amount of pride you must feel. it goes to show that you have the same sense of spirit he did :)

[edkemper]

Deedee,

I forgot the cataract surgeries to both eyes. Looking back, I must be nearing the 6 million Dollar Man level for sure.

[BoFuller]

Eating like Jack?

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/jack_portrait_web-1.jpg




Let sleeping dogs lie... Lie down beside a cigarette, lighter, coffee, and a big ole hamburger. He'll wake up in time for breakfast at 10:00am.

-Jack

This is to let you know that you have been reported to the "Hijack Police"