" build as small as you can afford"

[concreter]

I have been doing some reading on here and seen people quote Skipp as saying "build as small as you afford"
This might be a stupid question but here goes, What did he mean by that? As small as you can get by with?

[rckclmbr428]

the LHBA mindset is building without a mortgage, debt free. Cost and complexity of building increases the bigger you build. if you can pay cash to build a 10,000 sq.ft place, then by all means, go for it, If you can only afford to build 800sq.ft. with cash, do it, save the rest and add on later when you have all the money you didnt pay the bank in interest, if you really want to play baseball in your living room.

[panderson03]

building as small as you can afford refers to planning and building the smallest place you can confortably live in. if it has all you need, really that's what you should build. by doing that, its easier to build cheep and also faster to build. when we get to thinking we need to have more square feet/granite counter tops/walk out basement/all the bells and whistles the $$ and the time-to-build only increase.

a smart person once said ' you can only have 2 of these three -fast -cheep -good'. you can build a place fast and good but it won't be cheep/ you can build a place cheep and good but it won't be fast/ you can build a place fast and cheep but it won't be good. welcome to the forums. good question!

[rocklock]

A couple of thoughts...

When I write, it takes more effort to be concise.

Building an efficient, tight, with out a lot of unnecessary stuff is hard to do...
"So building as small as you can afford" is a way of saying its hard to look at you requirements and just meet them. Exceeding your requirements is easy to do.

I could have built 20 foot walls when I only needed 16 foot. And the next one the wall will probably only be 14 feet or less...

hope this helps...

[Tom Featherstone]

I can't speak for Skip, but what I remember from class is he would teach in ways to make you think, so you would have the ability to work through the many hurdles you'll encounter during a build. "Build As..." I believe can have many meanings if you think of all the possibilities, it's up to each of us to fill in "our" blanks.

I regret today not taking the opportunity to get to know /meet Skip while he was still with us. Hopefully those that knew Skip will chime in here.

The Log Home Builders Association is in very Excellent, Capable hands... The Master taught them well!

Are you signed up for a class yet?
Best of Wishes,
Tom

[loghousenut]

I took the class from Skip 3 different times and I don't think I had any idea what he meant til we started working on the home we are building right now. We spent years planning our dream mansion... A 40x40 and all the amenities and it was never big enough.

One day the Wife said "Why can't we just trim this project down to something that will be done before they bury us". Within a week we had plans ordered and were on our way toward the 35x35 one bedroom place that we really always wanted. Now that the place has a roof and a floor on it we both wonder why we didn't build a 30x30 years ago and just be done with it.

The object is to build a home for your family, with your own hands, and do it without a mortgage. The object is to leave mortgage slavery at the door and come in and enjoy the bounties that life has to offer. The object is to have a home that makes folks say "Now this is what I'm talkin about!". It can happen using the LHBA method.

I think if you polled most of the folks who have built a LHBA home you would find very few who wished they had built larger homes. Most would have built the same size or smaller.

[Timberwolf]

We spent years planning our dream mansion... A 40x40 and all the amenities and it was never big enough.

One day the Wife said "Why can't we just trim this project down to something that will be done before they bury us".


we both wonder why we didn't build a 30x30 years ago and just be done with it.

The object is to build a home for your family, with your own hands, and do it without a mortgage. The object is to leave mortgage slavery at the door and come in and enjoy the bounties that life has to offer. The object is to have a home that makes folks say "Now this is what I'm talkin about!". It can happen using the LHBA method.

I think if you polled most of the folks who have built a LHBA home you would find very few who wished they had built larger homes. Most would have built the same size or smaller.


LHN, has as usual, hit the rebar on the head.

[ChainsawGrandpa]

"I think if you polled most of the folks who have built a LHBA home you would find very few who wished they had built larger homes. Most would have built the same size or smaller.[/QUOTE]"


Well said, LHN!!

My neighbor is several years into his enormous unfinished shell. It's getting close to being finished but he opined, "I wish I had never built it this big."

I was walking across the bedroom in our rental and for some reason, after a while I started to count the steps. The place is huge, and just a lot of blank area. Of course the furnace is always on keeping all this space warm.

I'm oh so close to finishing the guest house. I just wish I had made a few changes on it and then not even build the main house. The guest house is as big as we need.

If you need space to keep form getting cabin fever then put a shop / guest quarters / man cave over the garage, or just learn to enjoy the outdoors.

When I finally thought about it I need a place to sleep, bathe, and sit.

Life is too short to focus on a palace. Kings live in palaces, and people always want to dethrone the king. The lawyers, tax man, heirs, and everyone else see your palace as a target. Keep it small and comfortable.

Go and live, and have a warm, snug area for the end of the day.

An old friend was in the obituaries last night.

This afternoon I'm going to a funeral of a former classmate.

Life is too short to focus on possessions. Build a place to park your carcass at the end of the day, and then live life without the burden of a mortgage.


G'pa

[John W]

"Go and live, and have a warm, snug area for the end of the day." Thanks Chainsaw Gpa. That one just might stick.
And LHN, the Dali Lhama of the Forum, my log house is getting smaller by the minute.
One last thing. Kings have palaces, but you always here of the king's 'private quarters'. They too want a snug area at the end of the day.

[edkemper]

On the other hand, how many that finish their 30x30 don't feel they are living in their castle when they finish? How many want to move or decide to build a bigger one?

[greenthumb]

Some good examples of 'building as small as you can afford', taken to the extreme.

http://tinyhouseblog.com/

[Jane Doe]

Some TERRIBLE examples of 'building as small as you can afford' is this guy. Can you believe that he charges $160K to build you a 500 sq ft, 1 bed/1 bath SHACK??? Talk about STEALING the American Dream.

[Jane Doe]

Forgot the link: http://www.thecatskillfarms.com/

[panderson03]

bet it could be built for 15,000.... hiway robbery...

[BarstowRat]

you know, for a Home Depot shed/house, it's pretty nice looking... but then again for 160K i'd rather buy a really nice rv

[spiralsands]

Some TERRIBLE examples of 'building as small as you can afford' is this guy. Can you believe that he charges $160K to build you a 500 sq ft, 1 bed/1 bath SHACK??? Talk about STEALING the American Dream.

Isn't he including the real estate in the price? I think Catskills land is pretty pricey. Closer to NYC you get, the more expensive the dirt. Plus, he's appealing to the clientele who live in NYC and pay 300K for their studio apartments, not exactly the 'do-it-yourself' crowd.

Frances

[rreidnauer]

I can't imagine that doesn't include land. Hey, if he's got a steady flow of clients willing to pay those prices, I can't fault him for charging such. The markets have a way of balancing themselves for voluntary purchases such as this, and if he's still in business, he must be in the ballpark.

[buck_cooper]

Hey Rod,
Your model is really cool. Hard to pick out it is a model for a while. What did you use for the interiour framing? How long did it take to make the model?

[rreidnauer]

Thanks. Interior studs are 1/16" x 1/8" strips from a hobby store. Joist, sleepers, bucks, and T&G flooring/ceiling were ripped to size on a table saw from poplar boards. It took a solid month to get it built.

[Strongbow]

Don't mean to be rude, but getting back to the original post:
I'm thinking a 30x30, full basement, full upstairs for bedrooms. That's a 30x30 basement, 30x30 ground level, and 30x30 second story. 900 sqft each. My opinion is that 2700 sqft is pretty dang good!
My girlfriend's opinion is that she needs a full basement and three stories on top of that.
My head hurts... I need Tylenol...

[loghousenut]

Maybe she means basement, two stories, and a half loft. Even then it's getting kinda tall. There's plenty of members who build em that way and straight up is the cheapest floorspace. How many LHBA homes has she been inside of. Might be time to take a tour.

[spiralsands]

Don't mean to be rude, but getting back to the original post:
I'm thinking a 30x30, full basement, full upstairs for bedrooms. That's a 30x30 basement, 30x30 ground level, and 30x30 second story. 900 sqft each. My opinion is that 2700 sqft is pretty dang good!
My girlfriend's opinion is that she needs a full basement and three stories on top of that.
My head hurts... I need Tylenol...

You girlfriend must be planning lots of kids!! (Kidding...)

Anyhow, I was planning the same size as you: 30x30 w/basement and second floor but I was going to call it a 1 bedroom, 1 bath (downstairs) with a BIG attic. That way when Mr. Taxman comes to assess, he doesn't have to count many rooms for taxable "living space".

[panderson03]

first let me caution that its probably never a good idea to GUESS what a woman's thinking.

it might be a good idea to have her plan out all the space on the 4 levels (basement plus 3) so you can get an idea of what she wants to do with all that space. she should show how many bedrooms, baths etc

then it'll be easier to talk through the pros and cons (like increased cost to build, increased taxes, and more rooms to clean...).

could be that she just really hasn't thought through 'how much do we really NEED' vs 'sure would be cool if...'.

I could very well be wrong, but I bet she didn't go to class with you.

good luck!!

[irace2win41]

I know for us I can tend to think bigger than I really need. Still trying to reign in my thoughts that are running like a pack of wild animals. I like the idea of building only as large as you can afford. I'm just trying to rearrange my life to fit that idea!

I know this is why both Ellen and I are attending the January class.

Rod

[blane]

Over the past two years we have been living in 800sq' with 5 children while we are building our 2300sq' home. We have found that we need much less "stuff". I think when we move into the log home we may feel lost with all the space.

[Tom Featherstone]

Don't mean to be rude, but getting back to the original post:
I'm thinking a 30x30, full basement, full upstairs for bedrooms. That's a 30x30 basement, 30x30 ground level, and 30x30 second story. 900 sqft each. My opinion is that 2700 sqft is pretty dang good!
My girlfriend's opinion is that she needs a full basement and three stories on top of that.
My head hurts... I need Tylenol...

I think I need a Tylenol thinking 3 stories on top of a full basement... Mike, get her to the class with you, sit her up close, I understand she has a hearing problem. You'll have a much Larger problem if you both are not on the same page. IMHO

Tom

[edkemper]

In this conversation, the only thing I can think of is how little time I'd have with my wife if we built that big. She'd have to spend a day on each level to clean and re-arrange.

We're going to build a 30x30 one bedroom, one bath single story. We plan on having a covered porch on all four sides. I want to sit on my porch and have coffee with my wife while watching mother nature create.

We'll build smaller place/s for visitors to stay in when we have guests. I'm old enough to not want a lot of activity to occupy my days. I also want our privacy in our home. Would rather work the land together than drive anywhere for anything. Know what I mean?

[Jane Doe]

I was wondering if there's a maximum height for how tall the log home should be before encountering problems. Especially for a solo builder. Aren't ceilings generally 10 feet tall? Is someone building a basement, ground floor, second floor, and third floor loft area is technically looking at 30 foot tall walls?

My goal (mentioned on another thread somewhere) is a home designed as a bed and breakfast on a more personal level. I'm not pressed for time to build so I'd prefer a larger home because most of my social network are married with children.

I've read that the 40x40 foot print is technically the largest one should build in order to keep the building techniques simple. Does this same idea apply towards the height of the walls?

[Strongbow]

I was the one who didn't want to build log homes, but after she convinced me to go to the class, I like the idea!
Now I need to figure out how and when to get her to the class, too, so that she can get some kind of understanding why bigger is not always better. I'd be happy with a 30x30, full basement and two stories. That's enough for me. Perhaps when she goes to the class, she may feel that way, too!

[spiralsands]

I visited Vern and Sarah Street a long while back while they were still building. One way to get that 2nd floor without a full wall course of logs is to go up 1/2 a wall height and then put on a steeper roof like they did. Sarah is very tall and she had plenty of room to stand near the 2nd floor wall with the steep roof and half wall. Because the roof was so steep they also had room for a "third floor" loft. You climbed a ladder up to it and when you looked down into the house, the height was dizzying!

[Strongbow]

I like the half wall (also called a hip wall?) idea. I sure would hate to stack logs twenty feet high. I'm not even so sure if I want the basement and ground level to be a full story, each. Maybe slightly less would be easier to build. I don't want to build too small, though and end up feeling cramped all the time. Then again, what use is there for ceilings so high that I (I'm six feet tall) would need a stepstool just to get my fingertips to them. Thinking thinking...

I still need to get land, first.
I'm going back to the library today to get Les and Carol Scher's "Finding and Buying Your Place in the Country." Since I'm out of school until the tenth of January, I should endeavor to read it this time, unlike the last two times I got it from the library.
My girlfriend and I are going up north to a friend's house this spring. I guess he knows some people within an hours drive of his house who may be willing to part with land for $1,000 to $1,500 per acre. I won't expect to see anything for less than $3,000 per acre. That seems to be the way of things in Michigan's lower peninsula.

[happyquilter]

Someone already mentioned this, but I like the idea of building small then adding buildings. My husband does too. We are going to build a very small 1 1/2 story. That gets it done quickly and cheaply so we can start enjoying it! Then at our leisure we can add a garage, shop, studio, and a guesthouse. I think our guests would enjoy the fun of staying in their own little cabin. Plus, since we are hoping to build in a recreational area, we could even possibly rent out the guesthouse if desired. I can't wait for class. Less than 3 weeks!

[irace2win41]

Looking for ideas on keeping most of the house on the main floor (keeping it real as we age). Was thinking two bump outs for the master and kitchen. Want to keep an open floor plan. My mind says build big, my wallet says otherwise!! We are so excited about the class in January. I need a log fix!

[Timberwolf]

Good idea, but bump outs can also be a HUGE PITA, luckily the class covers this.

It can however a good way to ADD space later.

[irace2win41]

Good idea, but bump outs can also be a HUGE PITA, luckily the class covers this.

It can however a good way to ADD space later.

Yes, I agree. Been looking at it both ways. We're trying (not a whole lot of success!) to keep our ideas to a minimum until after the class. We actually visited a log home (kit) that had two bump outs and really liked the flow. That "kit" was $130,000 for just the shell! Wow!! I know the reality of going up and down is becoming less appealing to me as we get older (Hey, I'm not that old by the way).

Still have a thousand ideas running through my head...just don't tell Ellen.

Rod

[Basil]

Wow, I built my house, all the porches, all the tile, roof, fixtures, outdoor kitchen, etc etc etc for the price of that kit shell! Sometimes, i'm just astonished how much money is out there being spent!

[irace2win41]

Wow, I built my house, all the porches, all the tile, roof, fixtures, outdoor kitchen, etc etc etc for the price of that kit shell! Sometimes, i'm just astonished how much money is out there being spent!

I agree. I was in shock when we heard the price. That was just the exterior walls, windows and roof. No interior, no plumbing, electrical, heat, etc. I am so thankful I found this site and stuck around long enough to save a fortune. I guess there is still a lot of money being thrown around. I'm just glad it's not mine.

Building as small as you can afford makes a lot of sense.

[buck_cooper]

Hey Happy Quilters,
The mrs and I were thinking of putting up a shop, either timber frame (barn look) or metel building and put a guest unit in one end of it. Then we could live in it while we get set up for the main house. The shop part of the building could give us storage and room for materials and equipment. I am an inspiring woodworker and want to build my own cabinets for kitchen and bathroom. Then when we do get moved into the main house we could have an extra guest room, or my Man Cave. Ha ha

[buck_cooper]

Hey Rod,
Lots of ideas running out of our head also. We just know we want most of the main stuff on the main floor. We are in our 50's but you never know what life will deal you. The 1/2 story upstairs needs to have room for my pool table, a bedroom for quests and a room were I want to build my model train track. Yee haw

[irace2win41]

Hey Rod,
Lots of ideas running out of our head also. We just know we want most of the main stuff on the main floor. We are in our 50's but you never know what life will deal you. The 1/2 story upstairs needs to have room for my pool table, a bedroom for quests and a room were I want to build my model train track. Yee haw

Buck, you and I are thinking along the same lines. Glad we're both going to the class in January. Our main requirement is a lot of windows and light, master on the main level, loft with pool table, and mortgage free as possible. I've built a few houses over the years and am looking forward to learning lots of new skills. My main concern is finding time to build with my work/travel schedule. See you in Vegas!

[happyquilter]

Buck, we are thinking the same as you about starting with a smaller building. We will keep our present house so we don't need to "live" out of our outbuilding, but it will be very nice to have the option of staying there for a weekend or week at a time. It will probably be a secure garage or workshop where we can store things, and will have at least a half bath and some form of heat so we can stay there as needed.