Smarts- or lack thereof

[logsurfer]

Ok then, here goes 'another' freakin out post....'Can I really build such a structure to code with just barely more than a smidgen of 'true' construction smarts?? I'm clearly Not 'Rocklock' book smart....nor Stressman math engineer brilliant...not even close...nor am I rreidnauer electric wiz or LHN jack of many trades who built cabins for my FAV childhood TV show....I'm sure I'm missing many more..fact is I'm still Unsure of myself....can reading really tell me how to frame to code? What project have you taken on that you knew nothing about? I'm not 'dumb' :D but not sure I have what it takes aside from muscles and a great lady and a California Dreaming~

[Scoutman]

Sent you a message

[logsurfer]

Sent you a message

Thumbs high!

[StressMan79]

your first problem is the "california" dreaming. That is on my list of places to visit, but never to live.

it is exceedingly hard to mess up one of these cabins. If you are not sure, just buy the stock plans, and build one of those. thanks for the math whiz comment, but I am not all that... but if you are unsure of spans, etc, just buy the stock plans and build one just as they say.

LHN will tell you that deviating from the plan costs money. I thought I'd be clever and change. I think some changes may be beneficial, but others will be a wash at best. For instance, I thought I'd go with a cement first floor, floating inside my stem wall. The floor will run me 500 bucks for underslab insulation, 1500 to have the guy do it and 1600 for the 'crete. This does not include the remesh and PEX that I will also use. I thought that the crete would be cheaper, but at 3600 bucks+ it aint so cheap.

I did block stem walls, that took almost a month to complete, would have been much quicker to do piers. Block was not cheap and filling them by hand was tedious -- 4 yards of hand mixing crete.

Thats just a couple examples.

-Peter

[logsurfer]

your first problem is the "california" dreaming. That is on my list of places to visit, but never to live.

it is exceedingly hard to mess up one of these cabins. If you are not sure, just buy the stock plans, and build one of those. thanks for the math whiz comment, but I am not all that... but if you are unsure of spans, etc, just buy the stock plans and build one just as they say.

LHN will tell you that deviating from the plan costs money. I thought I'd be clever and change. I think some changes may be beneficial, but others will be a wash at best. For instance, I thought I'd go with a cement first floor, floating inside my stem wall. The floor will run me 500 bucks for underslab insulation, 1500 to have the guy do it and 1600 for the 'crete. This does not include the remesh and PEX that I will also use. I thought that the crete would be cheaper, but at 3600 bucks+ it aint so cheap.

I did block stem walls, that took almost a month to complete, would have been much quicker to do piers. Block was not cheap and filling them by hand was tedious -- 4 yards of hand mixing crete.

Thats just a couple examples.

-Peter

Yes....I am still trying to wrap my thought process around this whole CA business....it doesn't appear friendly to say the least. Listening to you 'talk' you certainly know a thing or to..:) We had thoughts of buying the stock plans for sure. Cement 1st floor floating inside the stem wall??? See, I am clueless! HA! Guess I just need the class under my belt to 'understand' completely. Much thanks for the input my man!

[dazedandconfused]

Logs you're not the only one, I posted a similar freaking out message about 3 months ago( I have no building knowledge to think of), and I was bombarded with support by too many too many to list, I am attending the May class and I guess you never accomplish anything you don't try, what is the worst thing that could happen? I believe, Lord willing I will learn more about myself in this process and that can never be a bad thing, good luck I will be here for you to freak out on

[logsurfer]

Logs you're not the only one, I posted a similar freaking out message about 3 months ago( I have no building knowledge to think of), and I was bombarded with support by too many too many to list, I am attending the May class and I guess you never accomplish anything you don't try, what is the worst thing that could happen? I believe, Lord willing I will learn more about myself in this process and that can never be a bad thing, good luck I will be here for you to freak out on

I recall that post very well my friend....same boat indeed :) Wow, your only days away from the other side! Sweet! Yes, Lord willing we shall find a way....We are planning on the class here soon enough....Is PA a desirable place in terms of cost-permits and such? I'm not so sure we can do this where I reside as of now :(

[Cruiser]

I'll give you my take. We took the class in Jan and it was great. It answers all the basic questions and the rst is on the other side. I have never been in construction, but my Dad is one of those that can build anything and I was is helper on small projects growing up and always watching, so I have some very basic knowledge. At the same time, I was freaking out too looking at what we are up against. What has helped is knowing what a great bunch of folks are here to lend a hand and moral support. The other key thing to me is to look at the build in phases and concentrate on the task at hand, that keeps it from being overwhelming. Clearing, check...foundation, check...logs peeled, check...stack logs, check...you get the picture. We are hoping to start in a year or so and the extra time is great to learn (and feel more comfortable) and start collecting tools, supplies and building materials. Remember, the greatest thing is we are all in this together and everyone is willing to help. I might even be able to help someone some day! :)

[LogSurfer2]

In general I agree with my husband (Logsurfer) that it is intimidating to say the least....although the shell of the structure sounds fun to learn, I am really giddy to think about doing a lot of the finish work. Tiling, cabinets, sinks, stairs, stonework, etc., plus I love to research and look for DEALS! What I need to learn & get good at is digging, grunt work, measuring twice and cutting once, etc. It's hard for me to curb my enthusiasm!

Cruiser - I agree that looking at each phase of work separately helps....being ADD myself I have to force myself to stop & focus on one thing at a time! It's hard but I am really getting used to it over the years...LOL!

[Blondie]

Logs' Mr And Mrs.

I would like to be a fly on the wall, during the class, as the light dawns and watch your faces! Until then, read everything that you can from this website. It will help alot.

Blondie

[logsurfer]

Logs' Mr And Mrs.

I would like to be a fly on the wall, during the class, as the light dawns and watch your faces! Until then, read everything that you can from this website. It will help alot.

Blondie

HA! Brilliant....indeed we shall

[loghousenut]

I've seen some very cool LHBA buildings that were put together by some very stupid people. I'm talking people who were too stupid to co to college (some who were too stupid NOT to), too stupid to be building contractors, too stupid to hold a meaningful conversation about life, too stupid to vote for right side. There's all kinds of stupid but I've yet to meet anybody who was captivated by the LHBA method and still too stupid to make it work.

I could never be the guy running the crew who built a stick house because I'm too darned stupid. That doesn't keep me from learning how to drive a nail and make friends with folks (even if I have to pay them) who can help with the interior framing of the house. Every time I wire an electrical outlet, I have to relearn it all over again. Still, my Son and I will wire this house.

If you do it Skip's way, you will have no construction loan and no Banker's deadline to keep you going too fast to learn. Each step will happen at it's own pace and if you have to redo, or hide, a few mistakes it'll build character. It'll take too long and you'll get tired of it. You'll lay awake some nights worrying about the next step. You'll argue about what to spend money on and she'll win most of those arguments. There'll be very few times when you feel like quitting and those feelings will be easy to think your way through. You'll make it and you'll be glad you did.

The LHBA system was tailer made for people who have never built a thing in their lives. It was tailer made for YOU and ME. You place will end up a lot different than mine will but the end result will be a family home, built by the family. It ain't rocket science and the few little parts that are kinda rocket-science-like can be dealt with when you get there.

You two oughta take the class and let the little light bulb thing go off above your heads. It'll work.

[rreidnauer]

....Is PA a desirable place in terms of cost-permits and such? I'm not so sure we can do this where I reside as of now :(
Pennsylvania is pretty easy to deal with as long as you stay at least 50 miles away from Philly. (probably Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, and Erie too, but I don't know that for sure) The trick is finding an affordable area but also being able to obtain work. I managed to get 10 acres of forested land for under $20k, and is within 30 minutes of two sizable metropolitan areas. (btw, this years property taxes were less than $30.00) So far I've only dealt with septic permitting, and it has been easy going, though the prices have gone up. I've given the county $825 so far, and I know there is a few more hundred to go before it's done. Other things I like about PA, is low state income tax, no personal property tax, (which really would kill someone like me who has a large assortment of vehicles, machinery, and equipment) and affordable insurance. (if you stay away from large metro areas)

[dazedandconfused]

RR where are you at in Pa, sounds pretty close to me I am in sinking spring pa about 10 miles from Reading NW from philly about an hour or so.

[Timberwolf]

Surfers,

You're probably further ahead by being "dumber" than a "smart" a$$ like me. 10 years of dreaming and reading, plus a little experience, gave me just enough to be dangerous, i've witnessed a lot of "dumb" people on this forum build some beautiful houses, because they were "smart" enough to take what they learned in class and apply that knowledge, unlike "dumb" people like me who just gotta do it a smarter way, then dig them self out of a hole later.

You guys will be just fine.

[logsurfer]

Surfers,

You're probably further ahead by being "dumber" than a "smart" a$$ like me. 10 years of dreaming and reading, plus a little experience, gave me just enough to be dangerous, i've witnessed a lot of "dumb" people on this forum build some beautiful houses, because they were "smart" enough to take what they learned in class and apply that knowledge, unlike "dumb" people like me who just gotta do it a smarter way, then dig them self out of a hole later.

You guys will be just fine.

Ha! Thanks Wolf! You are plenty smart, of that I am sure of....The barn the HOUSE-they are looking mighty fine indeed!
Your points are duly noted!

[Basil]

When I started my house, the only thing I had built was a climbing wall to practice rock climbing on. It was an 8'X16'wall. that was it. Now, I live in a log house that I built with almost no help, not even from my family. It is long days, tired days, and an enormous undertaking. It is also very rewarding. When you get in over your head, you can always hire someone, too, I think with the diy attitude here people forget that.

[LogSurfer2]

Thanks everyone! I know we have enough "smarts" to learn whatever we will need to see this thing through! My husband is the down-to-earth "healthy" skeptic that can sometimes talk himself out of things....and me, on the other hand....well, I am the giddy "overly" optimistic one that just likes to jump in and figure things out from there. Granted I do love to research, and I think that's the best thing to do so you have an idea of what's in store. Hopefully, the two of us will balance each other out and help each other along the way.....and I KNOW our new LHBA family & friends will encourage and assist along the way when we have doubts & questions....it's this forum that is giving us the courage and insight to proceed forward and take the next step! We are signed up for the Sept. class and can't wait to see what the "lightbulb" will reveal * wink *

[Blondie]

Logsurfer,

As a newbe, I read all the claims of the tools required to build a log home could fit in the trunk of a car. There were also claims that Skip's girl friend could build a log home, indicating you did not have to be "Conan, the Barberian" to get the job done.... I arched an eyebrow and said to myself, "Well, I will have to see about that...." I poured over the comment sections like a great page burning novel. I searched for clues, before attending class, how this could be done. My first Ah-ha moment came when looking at some photos of a guy using "lifting poles." I am a "show me," and hard logic kinda girl. Here was a lifting process that made sense to me, easily. Since that time I have had many other eye opening moments, but none as big as that first big "OH! This how it is done."

Yes, all the tools required to build a log cabin/home can be carried in the trunk of a car. However, I will use several that won't fit. Like scaffolding, a telehandler and a crane. As for Skip's girl friend, I haven't quite figure that one out yet. lol

Blondie

[PeeCee]

Frankly, I think you will have a much better chance of succeeding without the building experience. My brother took the class with me. He used to build houses here in Japan. He's got a lot of experience and I figured that he would be a great person to have on board. He spent the whole class whispering little comments to me about how this or that could be done better or that now there is this or that product that will do whatever better than Ellsworth and Steve were telling us. The problem was that with his experience, he figured that HE was the expert. He wasn't even paying attention enough to absorb what it was that they were telling us--he had his own little preconceptions about the best way to do things.

He was SO on the wrong page that he sent me a packet of log home kit brochures within a couple weeks of getting home--"these are probably cheaper and definitely WAAAAAY faster..." That's just the tip of the iceberg, but the long and the short of it is that I had to ditch him.

I don't have any building experience, but I have my notes from class. I can search the Internet, I can get books from Amazon, I can look at photos and try to figure out what is going on in them, and best of all, I've got a bunch of really knowledgable and friendly LHBAers who are eager to share their knowledge and experience and are patient with me when I ask stupid questions.

Granted, I've only got my logs peeled and my foundation holes dug for my shed/guest house, but I am as confident that I CAN do this as I am certain that my brother with all of his experience and knowledge CAN NOT.

[blane]

I am with you logsurfer, I have never built anything other than some decks and reroofing one of my previous homes. Here is what I have found while building. I have had to get on the forum many times when I could not get my brain to kick into gear and the four guys you mentioned have always had the answers. This forum on the other side will get you through the things you have no experience in. Then, I bet you have friends that would be willing to stop by with building experience that will guide you along the way to help with the plumbing, electrical and framing. If you have muscle and a great lady you can get anything done!
Ok then, here goes 'another' freakin out post....'Can I really build such a structure to code with just barely more than a smidgen of 'true' construction smarts?? I'm clearly Not 'Rocklock' book smart....nor Stressman math engineer brilliant...not even close...nor am I rreidnauer electric wiz or LHN jack of many trades who built cabins for my FAV childhood TV show....I'm sure I'm missing many more..fact is I'm still Unsure of myself....can reading really tell me how to frame to code? What project have you taken on that you knew nothing about? I'm not 'dumb' :D but not sure I have what it takes aside from muscles and a great lady and a California Dreaming~

[logsurfer]

I am with you logsurfer, I have never built anything other than some decks and reroofing one of my previous homes. Here is what I have found while building. I have had to get on the forum many times when I could not get my brain to kick into gear and the four guys you mentioned have always had the answers. This forum on the other side will get you through the things you have no experience in. Then, I bet you have friends that would be willing to stop by with building experience that will guide you along the way to help with the plumbing, electrical and framing. If you have muscle and a great lady you can get anything done!

Amen to that! We have been checking out your blog for some weeks now...love it! I am looking forward to the day that we can possibly put those facts to work. We are in the Sept class...and more than likely a number of years away from even starting the dream....if only there was cash as well as smarts to be had here we could get this ball a rollin' :D Bless you for the kind remarks! Just reading a few of the books mentioned on here to try and get a grip on any and all building facets~

[blane]

No need to get in a hurry. The class will also teach you how to build without breaking the bank. Patience is something you will learn as you look for the right place to build and begin gathering materials you will need. We took the class in 08 and broke ground in 2010. And I am sure we will not be moving in untill middle of the summer next year, so thats a 4 year journey. LHN took about 15 years to break ground (I think) and his place is looking great. Haste makes waste as they used to say:) But in time the money will come. BTW My oldest daughter is in Modesto CA, not too far from you. Don't think I would want to build in CA though, I hear the Government can be a bit overbearing for someone trying to build a dream?

[logsurfer]

No need to get in a hurry. The class will also teach you how to build without breaking the bank. Patience is something you will learn as you look for the right place to build and begin gathering materials you will need. We took the class in 08 and broke ground in 2010. And I am sure we will not be moving in untill middle of the summer next year, so thats a 4 year journey. LHN took about 15 years to break ground (I think) and his place is looking great. Haste makes waste as they used to say:) But in time the money will come. BTW My oldest daughter is in Modesto CA, not too far from you. Don't think I would want to build in CA though, I hear the Government can be a bit overbearing for someone trying to build a dream?

Yeah, Modesto is not to far away from here at all. Do so work up that way now and again. Indeed CA is beginning to stress me out thusfar and we haven't even begun. You know, I was wondering about that long time frame from LHN? I keep being told by folks at times that you don't want to take years to build, because it's not good for the 'home'....though I am SURE it will take us years IF we got this dream of the ground...Any thoughts on that matter?

[blane]

He will probably chime in and give his story on that. He did not cut his tree's until he was ready to go. There are things you can do to get prepaired and matrials you can collect if you have a place to store them, but you should not have your logs laying around on the ground for years before you start, they will begin to decay if they are not in the dry soon after they are cut. The class will teach you about all these things. If you have debt now, focus on getting rid of it now and build debt free. Then you will have something to pass on to your children. Here is some more reading for you that might be helpful.
http://www.amazon.com/Total-Money-Makeover-Financial-Fitness/dp/product-description/159555078X

[logsurfer]

He will probably chime in and give his story on that. He did not cut his tree's until he was ready to go. There are things you can do to get prepaired and matrials you can collect if you have a place to store them, but you should not have your logs laying around on the ground for years before you start, they will begin to decay if they are not in the dry soon after they are cut. The class will teach you about all these things. If you have debt now, focus on getting rid of it now and build debt free. Then you will have something to pass on to your children. Here is some more reading for you that might be helpful.
http://www.amazon.com/Total-Money-Makeover-Financial-Fitness/dp/product-description/159555078X

Drats...I just made a post about this...I should have waited for you to respond :) Many thanks! I am just imagining that if/when we relocate to somewhere 'cheaper' then the $ we make will be less which will mean a longer build time...which is what we expect anyway....I am glad this will be touched on in class...I kind of figured it might be. Thanks for the link Blane!

[loghousenut]

If you are in a hurry you oughta run down to the local manufactured home outlet store and sign a mortgage for a trailer house. You could probably pay the down payment with the tuition from the class. If you want to build the home that we all know you want to build, then you oughta take the class.

I felt my ears burning and thought I should defend myself. There are two things I have learned over the years:

1... Patience is a virtue.

2... The older you get, the longer it will take to get the job done.

I took the class from Skip in 1982. I thought I'd have a dozen of these rascals built and rent them out to finance a high lifestyle. Life happened and I enjoyed it instead of building LHBA houses.

I proposed to my lovely Wife, in Sultan Washington, the night before we took the class from Skip in 1989. We thought we'd have a house or two in a year or two. Life happens. I built a log chapel/outhouse with a huge porch where we were married. I built an outbuilding or two. I built a log cabin for a movie.

We had a handshake deal to build a house for our landlords in exchange for the prettiest 40 acres this side of Cheryl Tiegs. Then the County stepped in and said they couldn't subdivide. Life kept happening and we were young and free.

The Kid came along and we decided to buy our current 6 acres. When we bought the place it had a 70's style ugly trailer on it and I didn't even look inside it because we were gonna get to building our dream house any time now. Life happens. I have remodeled the ugly trailer twice.

We made a living. We home-schooled the Boy, and went head over heals into Cub Scouts, and did Boy Scouts to the max, and a 50 mile hike each year, and every once in a while I'd drive out in the woods with Jake and suddenly park and say "Ok, lets pretend the truck is stuck in the snow and it's getting dark...We'll have to spend the night, what'll we do?".

Life just happens and it happens on life's schedule. When Jake was still little I was building a 14x14 LHBA outbuilding and I dropped a 1,000 lb log straight down on top of my Son. It shoulda killed him but accidentally didn't. Some 3-1/2 years later I found the courage to walk out to the building and pick up my tools and then burn the building. I figured I'd never be able to trust myself again with a log building. Who woulda thunk that we would be this far along with this place right now! I owe it all to my beautiful Wife and my courageous Son.

Last winter our home sat comfortably under a beautiful steel roof. The previous winter our log walls got plenty of rain and it didn't hurt them at all. By next spring we will have both floors in, as well as plumbing and electrical and maybe a few doors and windows. None of you fresh young kids will be a s slow as we are but, if you were really slow, it'd work out just fine.

Ask as many LHBA members as you want and the answer will be the same. Take the class. Those who have built, are glad they did. Those who are yet to build are glad they didn't sign up for a kit house.

No doubt about it, we are taking it slowly. We do it this way because we like it this way. She (the boss) occasionally get's antsy about the slow progress. She never gets anxious or antsy about a divorce. She never whines that we oughta move fast enough to make a mistake that kills one of us. She seems to be moderately satisfied with our progress. It'll get done and it'll be OURS!

Take the class. You'll never be too old but you're not getting any younger.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/Wow/Rooffinally002.jpg

[logsurfer]

If you are in a hurry you oughta run down to the local manufactured home outlet store and sign a mortgage for a trailer house. You could probably pay the down payment with the tuition from the class. If you want to build the home that we all know you want to build, then you oughta take the class.

I felt my ears burning and thought I should defend myself. There are two things I have learned over the years:

1... Patience is a virtue.

2... The older you get, the longer it will take to get the job done.

I took the class from Skip in 1982. I thought I'd have a dozen of these rascals built and rent them out to finance a high lifestyle. Life happened and I enjoyed it instead of building LHBA houses.

I proposed to my lovely Wife, in Sultan Washington, the night before we took the class from Skip in 1989. We thought we'd have a house or two in a year or two. Life happens. I built a log chapel/outhouse with a huge porch where we were married. I built an outbuilding or two. I built a log cabin for a movie.

We had a handshake deal to build a house for our landlords in exchange for the prettiest 40 acres this side of Cheryl Tiegs. Then the County stepped in and said they couldn't subdivide. Life kept happening and we were young and free.

The Kid came along and we decided to buy our current 6 acres. When we bought the place it had a 70's style ugly trailer on it and I didn't even look inside it because we were gonna get to building our dream house any time now. Life happens. I have remodeled the ugly trailer twice.

We made a living. We home-schooled the Boy, and went head over heals into Cub Scouts, and did Boy Scouts to the max, and a 50 mile hike each year, and every once in a while I'd drive out in the woods with Jake and suddenly park and say "Ok, lets pretend the truck is stuck in the snow and it's getting dark...We'll have to spend the night, what'll we do?".

Life just happens and it happens on life's schedule. When Jake was still little I was building a 14x14 LHBA outbuilding and I dropped a 1,000 lb log straight down on top of my Son. It shoulda killed him but accidentally didn't. Some 3-1/2 years later I found the courage to walk out to the building and pick up my tools and then burn the building. I figured I'd never be able to trust myself again with a log building. Who woulda thunk that we would be this far along with this place right now! I owe it all to my beautiful Wife and my courageous Son.

Last winter our home sat comfortably under a beautiful steel roof. The previous winter our log walls got plenty of rain and it didn't hurt them at all. By next spring we will have both floors in, as well as plumbing and electrical and maybe a few doors and windows. None of you fresh young kids will be a s slow as we are but, if you were really slow, it'd work out just fine.

Ask as many LHBA members as you want and the answer will be the same. Take the class. Those who have built, are glad they did. Those who are yet to build are glad they didn't sign up for a kit house.

No doubt about it, we are taking it slowly. We do it this way because we like it this way. She (the boss) occasionally get's antsy about the slow progress. She never gets anxious or antsy about a divorce. She never whines that we oughta move fast enough to make a mistake that kills one of us. She seems to be moderately satisfied with our progress. It'll get done and it'll be OURS!

Take the class. You'll never be too old but you're not getting any younger.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/Wow/Rooffinally002.jpg


My man, I don't even no where to start. The bio is heartwarming-nearly tragic-and utterly inspiring to me and others I'm sure.
Your words are always a Ray of hope to the two of us surfers over here. I am convinced of the fact that our situation will most likely resemble your path and timeline. Due to Governmental obstacles/lack of initial funds/uncertain knowledge on many levels. Oh yeah and land! :D
We have found a few properties that come with their very own 'Pink Trailer' such as yours...which seems ideal in that regard.
So, am I to assume by your rundown that your logs only endured a season's worth of unprotected mother nature??
I know our situation,should it enfold for the best, would clearly be a looong process...which I am ok with ( at least on paper) :) and keep trying to make sure the wife is TOTALLY aware of the likelihood on this occurring....which I imagine is coming to a solid shoulder slug should I mention it again~
But seriously though...it will be a lifestyle change and sacrifice in the somewhat short term of our daughters life as well as ours...but as you say so eloquently, it will be growing together and more tightly cohesive family atmosphere.

But back to my initial point here> how long can a build be realistically stretched?? How much can Logs endure if stacked already but not yet covered?? They would be treated with the borate before correct? What if it would take you a season to afford a roof then another to perhaps install? Would that be to long a stretch?
Just a reasonable thought I had for our position here before we get to class in Sept.- Perhaps this will be covered, or at least the question posed and answered to satisfaction....Thanks LHN, Love to hear you story as always~ *riding the wave*