Where is Paradise?

[BarstowRat]

I have been wondering for sometime now and after reading some recent posts it has prompted me to post. Where is "paradise", that perfect place that will allow you to build what you want, with reasonable land, decent gov. (not CA)... where is paradise? I have no sentimental attachment to anywhere as myself and family are/were military, but my "cabin life" is my new and only real goal for life and for my family.


Joshua 24:15

[lilbluehonda]

Paradise is a town in Northern California and it is

[BarstowRat]

I know where Paradise is, but I was more curious about "paradise", a place that I'm sure doesn't exist.

[Scoutman]

I spent the 1st 10+ years of my military career in MT. And I hope to build my 2nd, and last, LHBA home there. Definitely doesn't have the govt interference that CA has. And the land is alot cheaper. Doesn't have everything that CA has. And that's a good thing.

[lilbluehonda]

Well I beg to differ here it is and it's mine
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd206/ragdump/4415918738_8da070857f.jpg

[Scoutman]

Had to put signs on your trees?

[lilbluehonda]

That's not on the tree it says "golfers replace divots " they're old porcelain signs from a golf coarse a friend gave me they just stick in the ground

[lilbluehonda]

And my nearest neighbor is 8 miles away and it doesn't get -15
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd206/ragdump/GoogleEarth_Image.jpg
and you can see my logs on google earth

[BarstowRat]

Well I stand corrected, looks like a wonderful place you have there... I live in in the desert so we don't really have trees here. Can't wait till I do

[logsurfer]

paradise is a town in northern california and it is

wahahahha!

[drummer boy]

Rural Arkansas. The Ozarks. We are left alone, we have mountains, snow, lots of trees, bears, deer, elk,.....you name it. Now that is paradise....Home sweet Home. we just put a septic tank in for my mother in law just about an acre away from our building site. No one said a word. We called to get power. They dropped off a trailer with the power cable and left. We ran the line and they came back again and hooked it up. Paper work? we don't have no stinking paperwork. LOL. Land.....In my area it is about $1,000.00 an acre. Economy....Just now showing signs of strain. We typically have a three year delay. that is good and bad. after most of the country recovers, we will be three years later.

[logsurfer]

Rural Arkansas. The Ozarks. We are left alone, we have mountains, snow, lots of trees, bears, deer, elk,.....you name it. Now that is paradise....Home sweet Home. we just put a septic tank in for my mother in law just about an acre away from our building site. No one said a word. We called to get power. They dropped off a trailer with the power cable and left. We ran the line and they came back again and hooked it up. Paper work? we don't have no stinking paperwork. LOL. Land.....In my area it is about $1,000.00 an acre. Economy....Just now showing signs of strain. We typically have a three year delay. that is good and bad. after most of the country recovers, we will be three years later.

That does sounds mighty nice my friend

[logsurfer]

Well I beg to differ here it is and it's mine
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd206/ragdump/4415918738_8da070857f.jpg

That rocks! Bro, is that Butte? OHMYOHMY

[drummer boy]

Guys....I am really really really blessed here. My father in law gave us 25 acres of what I just described to you. Free

[drummer boy]

logsurfer. That is absolutely beautiful property you have there.

[logsurfer]

logsurfer. That is absolutely beautiful property you have there.

Dude...you married GOOD! HA! I wish,but that's not my land...it's lilbluehonda's?? I'm still looking/praying 8.5 acres in the woods where I live goes for about 100K with no permits or septic or well...you'll be lucky to have had even some of the tests the county requires which I've heard could run you nearly another 100K...Now I'm just getting mad and sad :D

[drummer boy]

Dude...you married GOOD! HA! I wish,but that's not my land...it's lilbluehonda's?? I'm still looking/praying 8.5 acres in the woods where I live goes for about 100K with no permits or septic or well...you'll be lucky to have had even some of the tests the county requires which I've heard could run you nearly another 100K...Now I'm just getting mad and sad :D

My wife and I were just talking about all the permits folks have to pay. That is horrible. This is in America right? i can't believe what people have to deal with. I am very sheltered. i knew it was bad, but to what extent I did not realize. :eek:

[hemlock77]

Rural parts of Maine comes to mind.

[Basil]

When I started my house 6 years ago I had to get a perk test and an electrical inspection, and that was it. Because I was building on my own land, and it was more than 10 acres and a working farm, I didn't have to get permits and the like. And my building inspector helped me when I had a question about the best way to do something.

If I started my project now instead of six years ago, I'd have to have the perk test, the electric inspection, I'd have to submit an HVAC plan before I could get a building permit which is now required, and my building inspector charges $100 for each visit to the site.

America and freedom are disappearing. Fast. Builders and manufacturers have better lobbyers than owner/builders. This means that anything that can be passed to raise the cost of building will be passed. Arc-fault outlets in every room? You got it! Smoke detectors in EVERY room? Great idea! Outlets every 8 feet, whether the owner wants them or not? Perfect! Exhaust fan for ALL bathrooms? YES, get that stank out! All these things are nice to have, but I don't see any of them as necessary and each of them adds to building costs.

Um, I guess I'm done ranting now....

[logsurfer]

When I started my house 6 years ago I had to get a perk test and an electrical inspection, and that was it. Because I was building on my own land, and it was more than 10 acres and a working farm, I didn't have to get permits and the like. And my building inspector helped me when I had a question about the best way to do something.

If I started my project now instead of six years ago, I'd have to have the perk test, the electric inspection, I'd have to submit an HVAC plan before I could get a building permit which is now required, and my building inspector charges $100 for each visit to the site.

America and freedom are disappearing. Fast. Builders and manufacturers have better lobbyers than owner/builders. This means that anything that can be passed to raise the cost of building will be passed. Arc-fault outlets in every room? You got it! Smoke detectors in EVERY room? Great idea! Outlets every 8 feet, whether the owner wants them or not? Perfect! Exhaust fan for ALL bathrooms? YES, get that stank out! All these things are nice to have, but I don't see any of them as necessary and each of them adds to building costs.

Um, I guess I'm done ranting now....

Here Here...nuff said~ It pains me to think about the whole prospect of dealing with inspectors and the outrageous cost

[BarstowRat]

Well I know we have some Canadians out there, How does Canada rate?

[Scoutman]

Used to live in Goose Bay, Labrador. The black flies and mosquitos could carry your logs for you. Not because of their size but by sheer numbers. Stayed in an OLD trappers cabin (10x10) during the winter a few times. It was a B&P built over a 4 ft deep hole with moss chinking. It had an old woodstove and a couple of cots. If you didn't know EXACTLY where it was at you'd never find it in the winter. Quite cozy.

[Timberwolf]

Canada's great, but, as with a country this big, there's a few places you might want to avoid unless you have deep pockets. I've never actually met my building inspector, and I'm on my second building on our property.

[rreidnauer]

Paradise to me is a deserted tropical island just large enough to sustain me comfortably, but it can be found (at least speaking for the USA, because Somalia doesn't fit this equation) where government has the least influence.

I know parts of rural West Virginia have practically no government involvement beyond a septic permit. Of course, you'll get some pretty wild characters depending just how rural you go, but when I was looking down near Charleston, WV, about 10 miles up US79, I found nice homes and people, cheap property, and very little gov't involvement. It was pretty damn near paradise, just a little too far of a move to be practical, that I stopped looking there. I'm sure there are other parts of rural America that have the same, but those people aren't talking! They don't want all the LA, NY, etc riff-raff coming in and making a mess of things. (like what happened to the Pocono's in Eastern PA)

[Dan Spencer]

Paradise is where you make it !! My brother lives in Lucernce Valley , Ca - Paradise for him . But I like the trees of East Texas . And Oregon is my 2nd choice !!!

[loghousenut]

Paradise, for me, is wherever they are:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/Wow/Rooffinally026.jpg

[rckclmbr428]

I believe Paradise is right next to Blue balls, and Intercourse, in Pennsylvania, look at a map! gosh get your minds out of the gutter people! ha ha I cant believe Rod (who lives in Pa) didnt post this one!
For me, personally paradise is the New River Gorge, in WV I am steadily working towards enough cash to purchase land there. theres is the best rock climbing on the east coast, some of the best whitewater paddling in the world, lots of hiking trails, lots of super twisty roads for sport bikes, lots of excellent swimming holes, its pretty close to Snowshoe, the best ski resort on the within a 10 hour drive, its in West BY GOD Virginia, the list goes on and on, unfortunately, I am afraid its about to go the way of most outdoor mecca's. the Boy Scouts just bought 7000 acres and are making a permanent high adventure base there. dont get me wrong, I love scouting, I am an Eagle Scout, a ScoutMaster, etc. but they are projecting 30,000 scouters a year in the area, and no matter how responsible and cordial they are, for someone who would just assume not see anyone when I am out in the woods, its going to dramatically increase the population of the unpopulated. I am also afraid that the rich Dads that come with their sons are going to start wanting a little piece of it for their own. which will increase the price of land when I am trying to buy my own little piece of paradise.

[WornOut]

fricken WOW:cool:
How big is this thing LHN? Huge timber you used - how big are the honkers anyway? More pics?
Fricken awesome


Paradise, for me, is wherever they are:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/Wow/Rooffinally026.jpg

[Timberwolf]

And my nearest neighbor is 8 miles away and it doesn't get -15


-15, that's roofing weather. :cool:

141

142

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[WornOut]

Timberwolf --- I see you using spagetti noodles that are frozen solid for nails eh!

[Basil]

rckclimber, don't forget the red river gorge...us kentucky climbers get pretty wound up when you forget our little paradise~

[logsurfer]

Paradise, for me, is wherever they are:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/Wow/Rooffinally026.jpg

That is Truly one Beautiful Beast! Double Dogs Wife and Kid -in the country...Yep, that's a fine slice of paradise for sure

[BarstowRat]

Lucerne Valley is just down the way from and still in the desert, with no trees, plus the cost of land is skyrocketing there, I know I'm a desert rat and all, but I am so ready for some mountains... well mountains with trees.

[RPM]

I can say LHN has definetly a slice of "paradise" there. I had the privilege of meeting him last week and seeing his place. I've enjoyed reading his posts and seeing his pics, but let me tell you, LHN and his place are even better when you see them in person! Definetly someone you'd love to have as a neighbor. By the way LHN, you and your wife have done a great job with your son. Polite,respectful and carries himself very well. I'm sure you're both very proud of him. Keep up the great work!

[travelin01]

well if you want no govt. interference, North Dakota is a good place to look at. I don't even need a septic permit. Don't have building inspectors in most places. Unemployemnt is extremely low in most areas, if you want to work, you can find a job. Does get cold in the winter, but that is the price you pay to keep the riff raff out. Land values are pretty good unless you want to be in the very nicest places.

I don't know how long this link will be valid, but here's a good plug for my state, normally we don't like the general populace knowing this stuff, but if you found your way to this site, ya'll can't be too bad.
http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/112420/why-north-dakota-may-be-best-state-in-country-to-live-in

[loghousenut]

well if you want no govt. interference, North Dakota is a good place to look at. I don't even need a septic permit. Don't have building inspectors in most places. Unemployemnt is extremely low in most areas, if you want to work, you can find a job. Does get cold in the winter, but that is the price you pay to keep the riff raff out. Land values are pretty good unless you want to be in the very nicest places.


I passed through North Dakota one February back some 30 years ago. The locals were all saying that it was the middle of Spring just because the mercury was coming up out of its winter home in the bulb of the thermometer. I must be riff raff.....

HhahahHhahhahhhaaaa

PS... Seriously, some of the finest folks I ever met were in that part of the Country. You could do worse.

[housetruckin]

A great resourceful book we are using to find our paradise is Joel Skousen's Strategic Relocation.

It breaks down the entire country and gives strategic info such as geography, climate, freedom, politics, crime, standard of living, prospects for war, invasion, terrorism, gun laws, home schooling, health, growing season, taxes, corruption, alternative medicine, etc. Covers every state as well as Canada and gives specific areas in each state to avoid and which areas to focus on. It's excellent.

[rocklock]

I have been in all 50 states. I believe there are places in most all states that I would enjoy living.
But I have it very good. Six months working my log home on Camano Island and six months working out in Hawaii getting ready to go back.
I really enjoy Washington's weather and the incredible berries that I picked last night. My wife made blackberry crunch cake with ice cream. 916

[John W]

My paradise growing up was my grandparents cabin on a lake in the Adirondacks. Property searching, my absolute favorite piece of land is an odd shaped parcel of 107 acres offered for $84K, with water going through with two waterfalls. Taxes are very low...right up until I put a house on it. Maybe Frances (Spiralsands) could say what the permit process and pre-building hassle is like up there.

here's my paradise:

http://www.landsofnewyork.com/land-for-sale/107-acres-in-Saint-Lawrence-County-New-York/id/920883

[Timberwolf]

Wow John. That's incredible. I swear I could feel the rejuvinating affect of sitting beside that waterfall just looking at the pictures!

[spiralsands]

The sound of a running stream is magical.

[FishingAddict]

I have been in all 50 states. I believe there are places in most all states that I would enjoy living.
But I have it very good. Six months working my log home on Camano Island and six months working out in Hawaii getting ready to go back.
I really enjoy Washington's weather and the incredible berries that I picked last night. My wife made blackberry crunch cake with ice cream. 916

LOML just got back from here......

http://www.google.com/search?q=deception+pass&hl=en&tbo=u&qscrl=1&rlz=1T4MERD_enUS498US498&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=mJtPUJSLPOnFyAHi4IHYDQ&sqi=2&ved=0CEEQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=587

close to you per chance?

The pictures she took make me drool. Heaven, she found heaven. Her sister lives there and now I get why she never comes back to visit:D

[rreidnauer]

Wow! You win John W. That is paradise!


Sent from my laptop on a Sheetz Wifi connection

[blane]

Thats crazy! No way you could get that where I am at that price.
My paradise growing up was my grandparents cabin on a lake in the Adirondacks. Property searching, my absolute favorite piece of land is an odd shaped parcel of 107 acres offered for $84K, with water going through with two waterfalls. Taxes are very low...right up until I put a house on it. Maybe Frances (Spiralsands) could say what the permit process and pre-building hassle is like up there.

here's my paradise:

http://www.landsofnewyork.com/land-for-sale/107-acres-in-Saint-Lawrence-County-New-York/id/920883

[spiralsands]

Blane, that's why I'm in NY too. I started looking for land in FL, then started branching out throughout the south, then the rest of the country. NY prices are just the best and there is good water everywhere. Sure, there are trade offs in higher real estate and school taxes but there are trade offs in everything.

[blane]

When I think of NY I can't get past the Big Apple in my mind. That is some beautiful country. We home school so schools are never a question for us but all my family is in the South and they may consider me a trader if I went North.

[chazers18]

Join us (light brown deer skinned rabbit fur lined mitten extend out)
Come to the so stinking hot in the summers you wished it was -20 for a bit northside.


Good for you Blane, (your wife) my wife does the same with our possy.


here is my slice of paradise (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6e7AbRGmw4I/UFFDDncwfOI/AAAAAAAAAGQ/7GsP_1I6D4s/s1600/20120912_170302.jpg)


or very close to 44.874849,-89.747842

google map it.

Wisconsin has similar country, minus the wild NY accent...





When I think of NY I can't get past the Big Apple in my mind. That is some beautiful country. We home school so schools are never a question for us but all my family is in the South and they may consider me a trader if I went North.

[Mosseyme]

Absolutely beautiful, That will be some place to live.

[loghousenut]

I wanna hear about bugs... Especially mosquitoes.

[spiralsands]

I wanna hear about bugs... Especially mosquitoes.

Gotta have something for the frogs to eat.

[rckclmbr428]

no offense to any Yankees on here, but I have made a vow to never live above the Mason Dixon line, i got real close to it in college ( i lived about 5 miles away) but never above it.

[blane]

I have to agree with Ronnie. Heritage is important to me and my family so we will have to stay down here, not to mention that most places in the South can understand what I am saying without an interpeter . However, West Virginia, Tennessee and Kentucky could be an option for us in the future. I love WNC but it is expensive and a bit intrusive government wise and tax's are too high.

[rckclmbr428]

There are still counties in West Virginia that the power company will come drop power onto a pole, and you never see anyone ever again in the build, no building permits, no inspectors, no septic permits, no CO's to work towards, no intrusion at all. I had a neighbor growing up who put his house under tarpaper, put up osb on his framed walls, and moved in. All the power company cares about is that its properly grounded so that you dont kill yourself and blame them. I have a home going in in WV that I had to convince the father in law that running the sewage out a straight pipe over the hill wasnt a good idea. I am working towards the goal of getting enough residual income to be able to move back to WV, to a place where no one asks questions, no one wants to seeing engineering reports that they dont understand so that they can "cover their butts"

[chazers18]

Dude i WISH


after 2012 in the state of WI you will need to apply for a license to build your own home. so no more mom and dad scrambling to get the house done only licensed builders.



course you still dont need a license to fornicate and birth children, but hey if you want to drive or build the state has you covered!!!!


sorry to off topic and jack the thread


There are still counties in West Virginia that the power company will come drop power onto a pole, and you never see anyone ever again in the build, no building permits, no inspectors, no septic permits, no CO's to work towards, no intrusion at all. I had a neighbor growing up who put his house under tarpaper, put up osb on his framed walls, and moved in. All the power company cares about is that its properly grounded so that you dont kill yourself and blame them. I have a home going in in WV that I had to convince the father in law that running the sewage out a straight pipe over the hill wasnt a good idea. I am working towards the goal of getting enough residual income to be able to move back to WV, to a place where no one asks questions, no one wants to seeing engineering reports that they dont understand so that they can "cover their butts"

[BoFuller]

There are still counties in West Virginia that the power company will come drop power onto a pole, and you never see anyone ever again in the build, no building permits, no inspectors, no septic permits, no CO's to work towards, no intrusion at all. I had a neighbor growing up who put his house under tarpaper, put up osb on his framed walls, and moved in. All the power company cares about is that its properly grounded so that you dont kill yourself and blame them. I have a home going in in WV that I had to convince the father in law that running the sewage out a straight pipe over the hill wasnt a good idea. I am working towards the goal of getting enough residual income to be able to move back to WV, to a place where no one asks questions, no one wants to seeing engineering reports that they dont understand so that they can "cover their butts"

That sounds sweet. I wish.
Hey Ronnie, did you get anywhere finding statistics on the OSB for my engineer?

[rckclmbr428]

Ya, i sent him the link to the manufacturer with all the engineering spec stuff, he didnt realize it was structural foam, I get the feeling he hasnt done many homes...

[BenB]

Dude i WISH


after 2012 in the state of WI you will need to apply for a license to build your own home. so no more mom and dad scrambling to get the house done only licensed builders.

sorry to off topic and jack the thread

We had 28,000 and some GCs a few years back - takes all of 2 days of cheat school, take a test, pay a fee and you are a licensed GC----and it reciprocates with most states. Pretty silly game
So it's a PITA but not much of an obstacle...that said why does one need to play a game?

[edkemper]

When it comes to government, you have to know how to play the game. You have to speak softly and carry a big stick. Meaning, you can also use the law to get what you want.

[rocklock]

Fishingadd
Deception Pass is about six wet miles or about an hour by car from Camano. I live about 2 miles from Pam.

[LogHomeFeverDan]

Paradise............ two cubed shaped objects with the numbers 1 through 6 on them.....er..no wait that's pair a dice. Anywho, I think paradise is wherever you are as long as you are safe and with those who love you and you love.

[panderson03]

agreed! good call, Dan!

[FishingAddict]

Fishingadd
Deception Pass is about six wet miles or about an hour by car from Camano. I live about 2 miles from Pam.
You one very lucky guy .... that's some drop dead gorgous area.
They used to live on an island and ferried across but when they had a family they moved to the mainland. A few more people around but still serene.
You nailed it with the wet miles vs drive time. Funny how that works eh! :D

[LBolton2008]

Scoutman,

We are also military and plan to build our FIRST LHBA home in Montana. It's good to know that you have built one successfully!

[LogHomeFeverDan]

LBolton, first let me thank you and your family for your service. Second welcome aboard here. Third GRATZIO on choosing LHBA methods! I've not been in Montana much but I sure enjoy all the room!!

[thoner7]

Paradise for me certainly isnt NY. My girlfriend has been loking to buy her first house, 100k or less is her budget. The property taxes are over 5 grand a year on a small, dated/run-down 100k house. Plus there are not many good jobs. plus 8% state income tax alone. I will grow up poor paying taxes in NYS.

I have done research and I think Tenn is the state for me. A lot warmer (hate the cold) but still has 4 seasons. Cheap land with some hills/mtns, no income tax and low property taxes. 20 acres and a house is only 1200-1500 a year. NY would be 10 times that. Plus, Im young, cant retire, so I need gainfull emplyment where ever i go.

The Ozarks in Ark sounded good too though. Maybe I'll look into that as well.

[blane]

Some places in TN have no property tax

[thoner7]

Some places in TN have no property tax

Do you know where? I absolutely HATE the fact that even if I 'own' property, I am really just renting my land from the government.

Ill try the google machine to see what I come up with.

[blane]

Every county has its own regulations so you would just have to check around

[blane]

I could be wrong, I just searched TN and had no luck finding counties with no property tax. Just what I had heard people tell me I guess.

[marvlus]

I could be wrong, I just searched TN and had no luck finding counties with no property tax. Just what I had heard people tell me I guess.

I would've been suprised if you had found any. Are not most schools supported by property taxes? Maybe not. I don't know.

[blane]

I think there is no state income tax, they make it up in a higher sales tax.

[edkemper]

Property taxes usually cover things like Schools, Libraries, police and fire. Plus they need enough to pay for the city/county employees and politicians.

[Timber]

I have been wondering for sometime now and after reading some recent posts it has prompted me to post. Where is "paradise", that perfect place that will allow you to build what you want, with reasonable land, decent gov. (not CA)... where is paradise? I have no sentimental attachment to anywhere as myself and family are/were military, but my "cabin life" is my new and only real goal for life and for my family.


Joshua 24:15
i know where its not!
barstow

[Mosseyme]

Ozarks tend to be somewhat hotter in the summer than E TN foothills and mountains. I think.

[thoner7]

TN has no state income tax and very low property tax rates which is why it was so high on my last. I dont mind paying taxes, as long as the money isnt wasted, and Im taxed in the proper way. Income taxes make you a slave to the government (when someone owns the fruits of your labor, that is by definition slavery), and property taxes prevent true property ownership (its really just renting from the government). Sales and use taxes are voluntary by their nature, and head taxes are equal to everyone. O if only the 16th Amendment was never passed....

Srry for the tangent, back on topic; the only areas in the US I found with no property taxes are allegedly the un-incorporated parts of Alaska, aka the wilderness where no towns exist. Other states may have rural, unincorporated areas too, but I didnt see anything.

If Alaska wasn't so cold I would be considering it! Outside of the US, I know the Cayman Islands have no property or income tax of any kind.

[Gomer]

Like you thoner ____ I hate paying taxes. Detest it.
That said when the shovel hits the ground I , all in all , don't fret it that much. Some here , by the very nature of the type of entity LHBA is, will totally agree with your thinking so I suspect here I am in the minority.

We got it all in this country and without education, military and law enforcement, roads and bridges to get them to us, fresh water and air (relatively speaking), power and grid system, which all add to OPPORTUNITY for ALL, and I could go on and on ..... while I hate taxes I also in a way am fine with them too.
I can move elsewhere and would if I found them to be a burden for the things provided.
Is there waste ---- sure. That said most of us live in a bigger place than we really need to and by definition I guess we all waste too in this way or that. ;)

its a pro-con thing.
I'll live with it

[rreidnauer]

Nothing wrong with taxes when balanced with proper use. But pretty safe to say they are not. Why one place has prop taxes at $20k a year while another is just several hundred? Obviously there is case of being taken advantage of for being in a popular area.

And one great example of abuse of use of tax dollars. The private Senate barber shop. It costs taxpayers over $400,000 every year.

But gov't can't find places to make cuts . . . . . :screwy:

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using TapaTalk 2

[AkChas]

.......If Alaska wasn't so cold I would be considering it! Outside of the US, I know the Cayman Islands have no property or income tax of any kind.

I can't think of anywhere in Alaska that doesn't have at least a Borough Tax (we have Boroughs, instead of Counties), but I could be wrong. Never-the-less, remote areas and sparsely populated Bouroughs have ultra low property tax (what services do you get anyway, when there ARE no bridges, roads, fire depts...in the more remote areas?). And the Permanent Fund Dividend (annual check to every man, woman, child resident), is usually worth between $800 - $1,200, on average. Which -- along with no income tax -- is a pretty nifty thing. Though you do end up paying Fed Taxes on it. I share 1/5 of a 10-acre lot in Homer (Kenai Peninsula Borough) and that annual tax bill is about $350. The tax on my house in Anchorage, however, costs nearly that each MONTH! That, as a result of people voting all the 'perks', come polling time (trails, roads, parks, schools, emergency services). Yeah some are necessities and others are desireable to have, but gee-whiz, ya don't have to check EVERY box, without thinking what it'll do to your mil rate!

As for Caymans -- I lived there for 2 years (1992-1994). Beautiful place, but......EXPENSIVE! True, no "taxes", per se -- but if you want to bring a car in, be prepared to pay it's value in taxes alone (not counting the shipping charges). And since everything gets imported, EVERYthing is expensive as all get-out. The Cayman dollar is tied to the US$, but Cayman values there's at 20% higher. So if the cost of a......beer, is Caymanian $4.00..... fork over a US$5.00 bill. I rented an 800 sq ft apartment that cost $800/month (Caymanian). That's $1,000 in GreenBacks.

So yeah, there's often more Devil in the details, than what's just shown on the surface. Just gotta drill down a bit to figure out what you want and what you can live with / without, etc.

I'll take the "cold" in Alaska (and the 24-hr summer daylight), over the 7-Mile Beach, (well, maybe pay a visit to the Caymans in the deep of winter). :)

[Gomer]

I hear ya loud and clear but to micro-manage the gubbermint and practices creates yet another layer of over-sight that costs AND keeps growing.
Suppose in this day and age if I was a political hack I'd want my safe barber shop at that. For reasons I created ....... sigh

Its gubbermint, it is sometimes wasteful but I will argue 'til I die it remains the best thats out there.
Gawd forbid gubbermint in this land ceases to exist. We'd steal from and kill one another until there be a handful left. I'd like to think I'd be standing' but whom am I kidding on that one.
Local level I don't see anywhere near the waste the Big Blubbermint has.
I see so many places to cut, like you, on Fed level ..... guess we can keep a dreamin'.

Fuuny thing here - my state taxes up marginally and local county and school district is down. Net effect about zero.
My federal rate, actual effective rate that I factually pay on my AGI, also has been down every year since 1999. I use minimal shelters, income is decent in low 6 digit ( mean barely over so zip it :) ) so all in all I see these "numbers" and sure do hear all the hollering but honestly have felt it not at all. At least on the tax returns
Now don't get me going on the hidden taxes and such ....... my mood will change in a hurry:mad:

[Gomer]

). Yeah some are necessities and others are desireable to have, but gee-whiz, ya don't have to check EVERY box, without thinking what it'll do to your mil rate!
:)

that dang wants-needs thing is a beast. My needs way less. Kinda see though that the "wants" of others and fact we have "things" is why my property value is roughly 2.5x of my buddies across way where they don't have these things for identical houses almost, Theirs might be even a wee bit nicer but valued way below mine.
Some people willing to pay that big premium for it all.
I just need to be smart enough to get out before all that fluff they willing to spend gets chewed up in property taxes. I'm thinking I still have about 27 years before it happens but why toss it all back by staying that long! Plus - I'd be looking down by then and not out. :eek:

[lilbluehonda]

I found it, even the sign for it
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd206/ragdump/Para_zps6148e96d.jpg

[lilbluehonda]

And here's the Road that goes there
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd206/ragdump/Paradisedr-1_zps0801f115.jpg

[lilbluehonda]

And it leads to my meadow in the spring
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd206/ragdump/ragdump055-2_zps91bdb42a.jpg

[AkChas]

Lil'Blue....
I caaaan't quite be fer sure, but it LOOKS like the "Paradise Rd" sign was painted over what USED to say....... Misery Pl (?) :)
But when I looked at your next picture I could tell HANDS DOWN, that MUST be Paradise. I mean...... look at all them House Logs sittin up off the ground, just waiting to be stacked-n-pinned! :D

[lilbluehonda]

Actually that is a real sign from Paradise road in Modesto Ca.(A friend borrowed it not me) the sign's significance is from the Classic movie "American Graffiti" Paradise Rd. is where the Drag race was where the car flipped

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOgqUHk-zDY

[lilbluehonda]

And here's just one of 4 drying racks
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd206/ragdump/dringrack_zps18334643.jpg

[edkemper]

When I was researching moving to Canada or the Philippines, I found out that I would still be required to pay U.S. Taxes "on worldwide income." Interesting because major corporation have worldwide income they don't have to pay U.S. taxes on.

[Steve Wolfe]

[QUOTE=Gomer;84928]I hear ya loud and clear but to micro-manage the gubbermint and practices creates yet another layer of over-sight that costs AND keeps growing.

Its gubbermint, it is sometimes wasteful but I will argue 'til I die it remains the best thats out there.

Please take this as simply another view on things. I don’t think the average American wants to micro-manage our government. It’s not needed IF we the PEOPLE vote in responsible folks that have County as their priority and not expanding their net worth at the tax payers expense. Too many good people are too busy with their own matters to pay attention to who or what they are voting for.

No argument that our country is the best around and there is a chance it still will be until the day we die. Slowly but surely more and more Americans swallow hard and say we still have it better than any other country. Should the rest of the world continue to deteriorate at the same rate our country is deteriorating, will we continue to say with a smile – “We have the best that is out there”?

Consider a day in the future of our children where the US Government provides every American family, regardless of size a single can of beans per day for sustenance, and the rest of the world governments provide their populations with tree bark for sustenance, I guess one can say that we would have it better than anyone else even though most of us would perish.

The greatest threat to ending our quality of life is Complacency.

Rant complete

[Gomer]

so what we to do about the gubbermint ?????
we vote them in, we vote new ones in and the same ol'-same ol' remains.

maybe we indeed playing a type of Hunger Games. Short of out and out civil rebellion how folks gonna change things? People maybe are and always will be busy with their own affairs and thats the way of humans mostly .....
Evolution - maybe as whole people no longer as smart as most of nature.

I fought in the 60s, protested in the 60s, and grew weary by 60s end. Most I fought along side are today on the other side of the street. Nothing changed .... humans being human pretty much ensured that outcome..
I got somewhat anti-gubbermint and bitter. They played the game and got filthy rich if they really played it well. Who was really smarter I often wonder?????

Rant done. Pass the beans please

[spiralsands]

Abbreviated history of the humanity, including the United States: The rich will always be in power and will need the non-rich masses to defend and maintain their domains according to whatever law they have allowed to be put down. Pretty simple really.

[LogHomeFeverDan]

Just leave me alone to pursue life, liberty and happiness.

[Steve Wolfe]

It may appear to be hopeless but it is not if we take baby steps. If we focus on the basics, (getting every government servant on the same playing field as the average American who is paying the servants. A good start would be having them pay a percentage similar to what we pay for benefits, (medical, dental, vision, retirement) or at least have them on a plan similar to what the average American has. Moving their life time retirement pensions and life time medical care into social security and medicare would be a great first step.

Next would be to have all Government servants work under the same policies as the average American; 10 paid holidays per year-period, No carry over of vacation or payout for unused vacation – use it or lose it, five sick days per year - if you don’t use them you lose them.

We need to get the government servants to stop living in La La Land, that is them thinking they have an endless source of dollars to pay for their excesses.

The whole point here is - Get government servants to live and work under the same conditions as the average American. Then maybe, just maybe they will begin to think like the average American and put a value on life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Baby steps

[BenB]

Servant is an interesting word in itself.

I myself do not fear the average government servants. They cause me no harm and for the most part work hard like me. For the most part I take more time off and enjoy more freedom from rules than they do. I have my own pension thanks to making a good living and playing with tax exempt and deferrred shelters with the additional money I make over a similar government servant position. Luckily I invested fairly well and could withstand the market rollercoaster ride. I'm slightly better off than those friends I have in the servant land sector. I imagine if I was not as fortunate in my investing I may be a bit less off than them too. Roll the dice on any point in time and it may change.

Now if one is talking about what I call management government servants such as PoliticalCrookServants - now you are talking true La La Land where they serve not the voters but the privileged money Managers that dictate the true policy to all. I have zero love or trust for this breed of animal.
They take and eat all the nurishment and deserts and then toss the crust and crumbs to the pawn servants, both inside the government and private sectors.
To my eyes what is left in way of crumbs for the masses keeps them starving and begging for the next meal.
Just like the wealthy want and need it to be.

Interesting how it is and always has been. Spiral has it all down pat as it is really pretty doggone simple. Follow the money and the path of the crumbs.
Tally ho - off to earn my crumbs after a long nices sleep. Assuming someone hasn't stolen my pillow that is. ;)

[DanS]

The greatest threat to ending our quality of life is Complacency.


True.

And most people have no idea just how accessible their representatives are or are not. My state legislators can literally be called off the floor of the state house to come talk to you. And yet how much of the state has done so? I'd bet less than 1/100th of a percent.

I should get to meet with one of my US senators this week. All I did was call their office and ask for an appointment.

Can't complain about your representatives if you don't give them some direction.... And then vote them out if you find someone who you think will take your direction better. And don't get bent out of shape if your guy doesn't win, that's just how it works. Either way, they should (and will) listen to your concern and they will take some direction from you if they aren't completely indebted to a major PAC, party, or interest group. And it's pretty obvious when they are, when you talk to them.

Dan

[LogHomeFeverDan]

We, the people, have forgotten that's it's "we, the people".

[LBolton2008]

I spent the 1st 10+ years of my military career in MT. And I hope to build my 2nd, and last, LHBA home there. Definitely doesn't have the govt interference that CA has. And the land is alot cheaper. Doesn't have everything that CA has. And that's a good thing.

Scoutman, thanks for the encourgement. We also, plan to build and retire in Montana. We want a nice slow pace.... sounds like we are barking up the right tree.

[LBolton2008]

My paradise growing up was my grandparents cabin on a lake in the Adirondacks. Property searching, my absolute favorite piece of land is an odd shaped parcel of 107 acres offered for $84K, with water going through with two waterfalls. Taxes are very low...right up until I put a house on it. Maybe Frances (Spiralsands) could say what the permit process and pre-building hassle is like up there.

here's my paradise:

http://www.landsofnewyork.com/land-for-sale/107-acres-in-Saint-Lawrence-County-New-York/id/920883

Beautiful!

[LBolton2008]

Paradise, for me, is wherever they are:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/Wow/Rooffinally026.jpg

LHN, this is fantastic! What is your square footage. I am so excited about getting this thing rolling. I want to go buy property NOW, but I know, I know....wait for the class!

[AkChas]

.......... I am so excited about getting this thing rolling. I want to go buy property NOW, but I know, I know....wait for the class!

Lisa / (Rob);
The advice to wait until after class, to acquire your land is 'fair enough', but not as critical as holding off on other aspects of a log home build. If you have or find land where you know you want to be.......so be it!

A fellow member recently announced, that a parcel near him was going to be placed on the market........in northern Montana. A lead on a chunk of land from a long-time member, trumps 'having to wait' until you take the class. Especially if it's where you want to be.

Just sayin'......

[spiralsands]

I bought my land before I went to the class. I was land shopping before I even thought about going back to the LHBA website. I wouldn't discourage anyone from buying land first because you may find one that is cozy and perfect. Also, just the act of shopping makes you start to distill in your mind what is really important to you. For instance, I was looking for land in all 48 and 2 other countries. Some places have poor or no water. Along the way, I decided plentiful and good water was REALLY important to me. So I started eliminating certain areas including one of my favorites, Oklahoma. I love OK and the people there but it has been drought stricken forever. I don't want to have to truck water in.

So looking and thinking is a good thing and maybe, like me, you'll find exactly what you are looking for.

[loghousenut]

LHN, this is fantastic! What is your square footage. I am so excited about getting this thing rolling. I want to go buy property NOW, but I know, I know....wait for the class!

It's 36x36 with a 1/2 loft so ends up near 2,000 square feet. It's kinda average size for LHBA folks. Most build slightly taller walls for more useable headroom on the second floor but we like the way it felt at this height so we stuck a roof on it.

If you're not turned off by how ours is turning out, it's time to take the class. I still say wait til later to buy land but start the looking process now. I also say it doesn't matter how long it takes to build so you may wanna take your counsel elsewhere.

Whatever you do, don't get to thinking you're too poor, or too old, or too young, or too inexperienced and stupid to build your own log home with your own hands... If this clown can do it, anyone can...

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/walllogs9-09019.jpg

[jcs3419]

This will be paradise: http://markwiard.com/salidarelocation/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Maysville-Meadows-3.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT1Gh6tqAR4N97kpM7UK-aOkCyM8Ctm70lRtLmFlF9tgqY7MQw4

http://markwiard.com/salidarelocation/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Maysville-Meadows-1.jpg
I have to jump through government hoops, but the building permit wasn't too costly and the property taxes will be reasonable. Totally worth it to get away from the Texas heat for the Summers! We're building our vacation home mortgage free to be a blessing to our friends and family and to escape the heat! What better place to retreat to the wilderness than Colorado?

[LogHomeFeverDan]

Love the water!! That's the only missing component on our parcel up in WNC.

[jcs3419]

LHFD,

We don't get the extensive moutain views, but we got the water! Our front property line is the river. You can hear it running over the car engine! We decided we would get views of the mountains from the 2nd floor and when we go to town for groceries, etc. But the river was the selling point. And the wind is a little milder around our build site as well. Did I mention brook trout? I'm stoked!

[oldtrapper]

That place is seriously gorgeous.

[Mosseyme]

I'm with you jcs. We have some awesome long range views but I will just have to hike up there to get that boost because I can't draw myself that far from the water.
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj152/mossey_01/2013-Step%20by%20Step%20building/L1050937.jpg
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj152/mossey_01/2013-Step%20by%20Step%20building/L1050858.jpg
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj152/mossey_01/2013-Step%20by%20Step%20building/L1050906.jpg

[LogHomeFeverDan]

LHFD,

We don't get the extensive moutain views, but we got the water! Our front property line is the river. You can hear it running over the car engine! We decided we would get views of the mountains from the 2nd floor and when we go to town for groceries, etc. But the river was the selling point. And the wind is a little milder around our build site as well. Did I mention brook trout? I'm stoked!

Do you fly fish?? Oh dear a trout stream as your front property line. Very very nice!! (furiously scribbling notes for future trip to jcs's place sometime after class) ;)

[LogHomeFeverDan]

I'm with you jcs. We have some awesome long range views but I will just have to hike up there to get that boost because I can't draw myself that far from the water.
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj152/mossey_01/2013-Step%20by%20Step%20building/L1050937.jpg

Wow MOsseyme!! I know that's not far from us too! Such a gorgeous view!

[DanS]

We, the people, have forgotten that's it's "we, the people".

Very true. I was the ONLY person I saw who wasn't a staffer roaming the halls of the Russell Senate building that day. I spent a bit over an hour in my Senator's office, mostly just chatting about nothing in particular.


I have to jump through government hoops, but the building permit wasn't too costly and the property taxes will be reasonable. Totally worth it to get away from the Texas heat for the Summers! We're building our vacation home mortgage free to be a blessing to our friends and family and to escape the heat! What better place to retreat to the wilderness than Colorado?

Point of order: if you can drive to it, it's not the wilderness. ;)

That's BEAUTIFUL! Chaffee County? My Grandmother's place is a mill claim on a creek that makes me a little jealous every time I visit her at home. But, with water comes being in a low spot, and she is jealous of our sun and view every so often. It's good to break them up, and if you can get the view from the 2nd floor, you're golden!

Dan

[David Harrison]

ALASKA!! That's where OUR paradise is. =)

[AkChas]

ALASKA!! That's where OUR paradise is. =)

Shhhhh! Trying to keep that one a little under the radar, David :)

This popped up today -- "10 Best States for Retirement" (yep, another one of those). This list takes many factors into account. Some are quite surprising -- others, not so much...
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/10-best-states-for-retirement-160239902.html

[AkChas]

Here's a real informative thing that popped up on FB, of all places. Tax Foundation (dot org), puts up a Weekly Calendar of the United States and ranks/rates each states on various Tax elements (Beer Tax, Gasoline/Diesel tax, percentage of itemizers, state tax rankings,,,,,,,etc).
Might be handy reference if you're weighing where to retire, or build, or just to see how your state compares to the others, in various categories.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.141113818864.103390.19219803864&type=1#!/photo.php?fbid=10151462166748865&set=a.141113818864.103390.19219803864&type=1&theater

If you don't have FaceBook you can go here, instead http://taxfoundation.org/maps

[mario kadu]

You may want to use some caution when looking at data from the tax foundation - a simple google/bing search on them will show critisims, disagreements, and acusations of missleading rankings and data from both right and left leaning foundations and organizations.

[AkChas]

You may want to use some caution when looking at data from the tax foundation - a simple google/bing search on them will show critisims, disagreements, and acusations of missleading rankings and data from both right and left leaning foundations and organizations.

Yeah, point taken Mario. I know nothing about the org, nor do I subscribe to their political views. But the data presented in their maps (i.e. tax on gas for each state, income tax rates if any, etc), provides nice "at your fingertips" data that is hard to "skew" from any political agenda (real numbers).

Of course -- Everyone has an opinion. A similar Google/Bing search of "LHBA", "Log Home Builders Association", or even "Skip Ellsworth", results in similar Criticism and Praise.

[tjlogman]

Hi chazers18, where did you see that in wisconsin that you need to apply for a license to build your own home? Is this some sort of contractors license? I am building in Wisconsin starting next year and have not seen this.

[Mosseyme]

AK,
I see on your link that TN is #1 on best place to retire. Only ding is crime rate. Even though we have experienced our share of the crime I still bet if you moved the western state line east 25 miles it might not even get that ding.

Well I looked it up and I am wrong. Knoxville is as high as Memphis. Nashville is safest of the TN cities.
WOW and Murphy NC is double the national average.