What about home plans, permission, insurance?

[2012 Hopeful]

How much do the home plans generally cost? Have you had your plans drawn up yet?

Since most of those attending the classes are just regular "Joes" I was wondering, is it difficult to get the planning permission since we are not "reputable builders"?

What about home owners insurance? Anyone had any trouble obtaining this?

[StressMan79]

Hopeful,

I'll tell you this one time: "take the class." You can buy association stock plans for fairly cheap. Or you can do like me and buy them and then disregard most of what is in them. you can beg permission from the government to say it is ok for you to live where you want... Basically you alert them to a higher taxable value of the land you are on... Anyway, the stock plans will get ok'ed by most municipalities, I have heard of some saying you need more rebar or hurricane clips, or whatever, but those are very easy modifications to do.

take the class... OK, maybe twice.

[2012 Hopeful]

Thanks for the help. I do plan to take the class, hopefully in 2012, thus-the name 2012 Hopeful. But, before getting into it, and investing a good amount of money, I wanted to find out if others have run into any unexpected problems with permissions or insurance. I'd hate to get far into this project and find out there was going to be a HUGE roadblock in the future. I do understand there are always going to be unexpected issues that will arise. Anything worth doing will result in some opposition. I believe in my dream and will pursue it, I just want to get a better picture of the road ahead from those who are up ahead of me on the same road.

[panderson03]

Hi there hopeful. any issues with permissions would be different from county to county. might be hard to get accurate information without knowing where you intend to build

[loghousenut]

How much do the home plans generally cost? Have you had your plans drawn up yet?

Since most of those attending the classes are just regular "Joes" I was wondering, is it difficult to get the planning permission since we are not "reputable builders"?

What about home owners insurance? Anyone had any trouble obtaining this?

I went in to the County building dept with a set of plans that were stamped by an engineer and asked if I could build my own house with my own hands. They took a handfull of cash and said to go at it. The engineer stamp is what makes it all happen. The County is out of the liability loop once there is an engineer involved and from that point on they collect the fees and see that you follow the plan. We have made a change or three from the plan but we always build obviously stronger so the inspector loves us.

The next time I do it I will use the LHBA plans and make the few small interior changes that the Wife wanted as we build. The money saved by using LHBA plans goes a long way toward paying for the class and they are top notch plans.

Insurance was easy for us. We are building on the property where we live and our agent says we are covered for liability during the build by our current policy because we lived here before deciding to build. Once we have a certificate of occupancy from the County, a new policy will be easy and very reasonable according to him.

One last thing. I suppose it is OK to wait to take the class until the date matches your name but some of us would suggest taking it sooner. There will be a change in your thought process during class and you will plan your new lives differently after class. The less mistakes you make this year the better.

PS... You could easily change you name to "2011 Working on It". Just a thought.

[WNYcabinplannin]

Same for me as LHN.
Easy. I got the stock plans 30x30 when they were on sale. My NYS engineer did the following: stretched the plans to 32x32 (easy since you get the fully editable AutoCad files), changed the floorplan to my desires, added a walkout basement to the plans, did my site plan with septic plan and stamped it. $2700, which is less than most would pay, I'm sure. He said the plans did most of the work for him, and if I didn't do the stretch to 32x32 he could've just added the basement and stamped it.
Building inspector was impressed, said it looked over-engineered like hell, and approved my BP on the spot.
Stock plans were such a great deal that I more than saved the cost of taking the class right there.
Go for it.
Take. The. Class. (and no, we don't get a kickback for convincing you ;) ... just trust me it'll change your life)

[2012 Hopeful]

loghousenut, Thanks for sharing your experience. I am eager to get my plans "a movin'" but really must wait a bit longer. I currently live out of the country and will be returning this summer. I want my son to take the class with me but he will be in college. After he finishes his first year (spring 2012), we are hoping to get into the next available class.

I do have "my own ideas" in mind but have not allowed them to overcome my good sense. We all have had these dreams of what we want and what we need. I know the class will change my thinking and I believe for the better. I was even going to build a mock-up of my plans but am going to wait until after the class.

For the time being, I'll stick with "2012 Hopeful", by the time next year gets here, it will be too late to change my name, everyone will know me by this one.

Until next time...

[edkemper]

2012 hopeful,

One mistake? Waiting for your son to attend. Assuming you're married, having the wife in the class with you is far more important. Just a thought.

[Cruiser]

2012 Hopeful - My wife and I just took the class a few weeks ago and I can tell you that Ed is right. It's not only important for the build, it's important for your marriage.

[2012 Hopeful]

Guys
Thanks for the input. My wife is on board with the project right now. I know it would be much better for her to see and hear everything as well. Have any of you been to the class twice? Perhaps it would be possible to attend with my wife, and then again the following year with my son. What do you think?

[LogSurfer2]

YIKES! Here in the Bay Area (Silicon Valley) of California, I am doing my research into what the county will want to see and what fee's they require before even beginning construction. I put in a call to the Planner today, and waiting for a reply....but in reviewing their list of fee's (which is almost 12 pages....yeah, for real) it appears that it could be in the $10,000.00 range just to get a plan check & all building permits! Good golly, maybe they don't want people to build here? It certainly doesn't seem like they are trying to make it easy or affordable! I hope our dream doesn't end at the County's doorstep....anyone else out there ever build in the Bay Area??? Would certainly LOVE some feedback!

[LogSurfer2]

To: Loghousenut, your experience with the county to get the building permit....did they base your permit fee on the "value" of the home? Here in our county (Santa Clara County, CA) it is based on the value, but without it being built, I wonder how they figure that? I put in a call this morning to the Planner of the day, and hoping for his return call soon. Gonna pick his brain to see if we even want to attempt this dream here....California may not be the best place to attempt the American Dream the old fashioned way. Feeling discouraged, but not devastated....I hope the phone call eases my mind a little.

[drmnoflogs]

We are in middle TN and it will cost us almost $5K just for the building permit. Then we have a septic permit, stormwater permit, electrical permit and a couple others I'm forgetting. After we've paid for the permits alone, we will be in almost $6K. And we're in the "country"! The other deal is that we have to have major "accomplishments" on our house every year, or we have to get another building permit. It's been said before: towns/counties are looking for revenue and they will get it wherever they can. Prices aren't going down anytime soon, that's for sure! I'm just glad we know what we're doing so we can save money on the other side. Good luck!

[loghousenut]

I wouldn't wanna build anywhere near the Bay Area... But I wouldn't mind selling a nice log home there once it was built. It'll sell for 2 or 3 times what my place will and I'm just barely across the border. I am surprised that $10,000 will touch a permit there. Mine are over 1/2 that.

There's good and bad in any building locale. If you can scrape together the money and love the area it is not out of the question. Too many darned Californians for me HHaahahhahahhaaa.

[edkemper]

CA is becoming the perfect place to have been from. Not a good place to be going to unless you're rich.

[loghousenut]

To: Loghousenut, your experience with the county to get the building permit....did they base your permit fee on the "value" of the home? Here in our county (Santa Clara County, CA) it is based on the value, but without it being built, I wonder how they figure that? I put in a call this morning to the Planner of the day, and hoping for his return call soon. Gonna pick his brain to see if we even want to attempt this dream here....California may not be the best place to attempt the American Dream the old fashioned way. Feeling discouraged, but not devastated....I hope the phone call eases my mind a little.

Heck if I know how they figured out the fee. I was paying them for the right to build on my own land. I thought they oughta provide the labor it took to come up with an asking price for the permit. hahHa.

I came at this project just wanting to get past the Govt. relations end of it. I thought it would be a lot tougher than it was. As long as they are easy on me and let me build without too much trouble, I think about the permit fees as just a cost of doing business. I also didn't really care much that the County cut future permit fees in half a couple weeks after we payed. I went down there with a pack of muffins and tried to shame them into giving me a partial refund but they told me I was just "lucky". They were right, I am lucky. What is a few thousand dollars in the long run?

I don't care much about the cost of lumber or concrete either as long as I can afford it. Simplistic, I know, but it makes it work in my mind.

[LogSurfer2]

Loghousenut:
I guess I haven't finished looking through all the permit fee pages....as I looked through them more about an hour ago, I realized that I missed a few things....yes, I may realistically be looking at more like $15,000 - $20,000. Does that sound more like what you had to pay? Some of the items listed seem repeated....a plan fee, a plan check, a building permit, a fire marshall fee, plumbing, mechanical, electrical, and the list goes ON and ON!!! Whew....I have no idea how many of these will apply to us. I definitely have to take this on, my hubby may not have the patience to wade through their paperwork....or deal with their people! LOL It's confusing to the newbie with no construction and/or home renovation background....

[LogSurfer2]

Wow! That does seem like a lot for being a little more in the "country" than I can be here....I guess EVERYTHING is more in CA....I hate that. And with the down economy, do these fees go down? Of course NOT! Those govt. workers keep getting their nice salary. Yes, saving the money on the other side will be the ONLY other comfort after the pride of all our hard & long work!

[Admin]

These two threads are pretty much about the same thing so we have merged them.

-The Mgt.

[LogSurfer2]

Thanks for all the input guys! It eases my mind that we would have to factor these fee's in almost anywhere....we are so wet behind the ears it would make you giggle! My poor husband is seeing so many dollar signs in his eyes it is creating some tears....I guess we have to factor it in and hope to get a loan to cover everything....IF we even get past the planning & homework. Oh, and the class...LOL!

[LogSurfer2]

These two threads are pretty much about the same thing so we have merged them.

-The Mgt.

Thanks! I was wondering why I saw my posts in two spots....totally my first time posting ;-)

[LogSurfer2]

CA is becoming the perfect place to have been from. Not a good place to be going to unless you're rich.

Hi Ed, I am curious, with you being from Folsom, how it has been for you? I used to live up in the Carmichael/Citrus Heights area, so fairly close to where you are. Have you found it to be just as expensive in your county for all the permits & inspections, etc.?

[hemlock77]

Loghousenut:
I guess I haven't finished looking through all the permit fee pages....as I looked through them more about an hour ago, I realized that I missed a few things....yes, I may realistically be looking at more like $15,000 - $20,000. Does that sound more like what you had to pay? Some of the items listed seem repeated....a plan fee, a plan check, a building permit, a fire marshall fee, plumbing, mechanical, electrical, and the list goes ON and ON!!! Whew....I have no idea how many of these will apply to us. I definitely have to take this on, my hubby may not have the patience to wade through their paperwork....or deal with their people! LOL It's confusing to the newbie with no construction and/or home renovation background....
Wow, I was thinking these fees were high here in the Northeast. That is almost 10X what we had to pay.

[Shark]

Under $300 in Indiana.....

[Timberwolf]

Under $300 in Indiana.....

Dude... That was cruel... :(

[LogSurfer2]

Under $300 in Indiana.....

Wow! Really?!?! For planning & building and electrical, plumbing permits, etc.? That's AWESOME! I think the main problem here is my State! Greedy & strapped for cash....bad combination. They'll suck hundreds out of you anywhere they can! You are truly lucky....

[RPM]

That's why I left CA! You can have it! I think the quality of life has left CA a long time ago. Just my opinion. I tried to build a spec home one time in CA. I had to have soil tests, wildlife survey, environmental impact stuff, soil take off analysis, soil take off plans, pad and driveway had to be engineered, water run off plan, and it went on and on. ALL THIS BEFORE I COULD MOVE ONE OUNCE OF DIRT! I bought property in Oregon and built a home here. I hired a contractor to put the driveway and pad in. I asked him, "Ok, what do i need to do with the County. What fees do I need to pay and what tests and analysis do i need?" He looked at me and said, "What????" He said, "You don't need a permit or any tests or any analysis. I'll put the driveway and pad in and you send me a check. It's that easy." So, I hired, he put the driveway and pad in and I sent him a check. Just like that! I didn't have to pull a permit until I was ready to build. I think when it was all said and done, I paid about $1500 in fees.

Logsurfer2: Don't pull the trigger. Go buy yourself some land somewhere in the country (out of CA) and you'll be much happier. The land is so much cheaper, the taxes are lower, the people are friendlier (sorry to any CA members) and you don't have to wait in a line for anything!! Believe me....there really is life outside of CA.
My two cents worth.

[edkemper]

LogSurfer2,

I still have a Condo in Fair Oaks. Moved to Fair Oaks in 1983. Will be moving back there before I move north.

I don't think there are very many places in Sacramento County where you could build a real Log Home. Far to restrictive because of so many "normal" houses and politics that would prevent a log home next to expensive stick frame multi story palace. Now getting to the fees? You "could" build 2 or more LHBA log homes, for the price of fees for one home. You're not going to build one in most larger cities.

I would expect all fees to increase in the near future as the politicians find it to be a good way to supplement their other taxes. Like tickets in CA, the cost went up substantially in January of this year. The increases have nothing to do with safety. Know what I mean?

Many of the cities and counties in northern CA now have a Crash Tax. Meaning, if you're not a resident and get in an accident, you'll be charged a substantial fee for the police and fire response. PS: Not covered by your insurance. Doesn't that make you want to vacation here? <smile>

Shark,

Just about any ticket here is going to cost more than the permit fees for your build.

[poorsinner101]

This is one of the best things I've seen on the free side of the site so far... Thanks!!!! I'm waiting to take the class (Memorial Day Weekend 2011) and I'm not very good at waiting, but this has put some of my worries at ease.

[Scoutman]

See you there poorsinner. Hmmmm, poor sinner + Vegas. Not a good combo. lol

Dave

[poorsinner101]

See you there poorsinner. Hmmmm, poor sinner + Vegas. Not a good combo. lol

Dave

LOL... I'm on the single side of life. If you're not set on your plans, I've got some ideas for saving money and have a lead on a great hotel deal. Please let me know if you're interested!

[Scoutman]

On the single side also. Got a room at the Imperial and sharing with b52bohmer. Just got plane ticket last night. Look at the May 2011 thread and you'll see who else is going. So far.

[RPM]

Poorsinner101!,

Glad you enjoyed this post. There are many more good ones on "the other side" after you take the class! You'll be amazed on how much information there is in the "Members Ony" forums once you get access. The members who post are always friendly, helpful and more than willing to offer their advice, wisdom and lessons learned from experience. No egos here. We're all on the journey together and want to build the best homes we can. And just so you know, Memorial Day is going to take forever to get here now that you've signed up for the class!!!! I swear i thought someone changed the days to 36 hours long as I waited for my class to get here. I was worse than a kid waiting for Christmas to arrive! Well, best of luck and we'll see you on the "other side" after the class! BTW, I'm probably poorsinner102 and waiting for the "Other Side" when this life is over!

[dazedandconfused]

Amen brother, I know the class offers plans at the end of the class for a steep discount, but do they offer the same plans later on, lets say after I take the class Memorial day and I want to think about the layout etc first or do I need to purchase them at the class only thanks all.

[Cruiser]

Amen brother, I know the class offers plans at the end of the class for a steep discount, but do they offer the same plans later on, lets say after I take the class Memorial day and I want to think about the layout etc first or do I need to purchase them at the class only thanks all.

You have 30 days from the class to purchase the plans at the discounted rate. We are expecting ours to be delivered tomorrow and we can't wait!

[dazedandconfused]

Cruiser, are these presented at the end of class? Do you have time to check them out? Are the plans everything you need blue print wise or do you need additional engineer info? Thanks for the info

[BillnChristi]

can anyone offer at least a RANGE of prices for the plans so we can budget? we take the class june 4-5, so wondering how much to try to squirrel away till then. thanks.

[edkemper]

BillnChristi,

All you can sock away. The plans are only one item you'll need. My best recommendation is to save every penny you can. The idea here is to build without debt. So the plans are only a small portion of the coming expenses.

[BillnChristi]

haha thanks ed....yeah, but its the only thing at THIS point that has a deadline lol

[Cruiser]

Cruiser, are these presented at the end of class? Do you have time to check them out? Are the plans everything you need blue print wise or do you need additional engineer info? Thanks for the info

We just received ours yesterday. All they would need is an engineer's stamp and you are good to go (in most areas). I haven't had time yet to go through them completely...that will take a while! It is a LOT of info. The basic plans are layed out for you to review during the class and then you have an additional 30 days to purchase at the discounted rate. I'm not sure if I am at liberty to tell the price, but it is MUCH less than you could ever hope to have them done on your own. The great thing about the LHBA method is you can change the floor plan to your liking (no load bearing interior walls), of course you would need to have them changed on your plans, but that cost would be minimal or you can do it yourself if you have the software and capability.

[LogSurfer2]

That's why I left CA! You can have it! I think the quality of life has left CA a long time ago. Just my opinion. I tried to build a spec home one time in CA. I had to have soil tests, wildlife survey, environmental impact stuff, soil take off analysis, soil take off plans, pad and driveway had to be engineered, water run off plan, and it went on and on. ALL THIS BEFORE I COULD MOVE ONE OUNCE OF DIRT! I bought property in Oregon and built a home here. I hired a contractor to put the driveway and pad in. I asked him, "Ok, what do i need to do with the County. What fees do I need to pay and what tests and analysis do i need?" He looked at me and said, "What????" He said, "You don't need a permit or any tests or any analysis. I'll put the driveway and pad in and you send me a check. It's that easy." So, I hired, he put the driveway and pad in and I sent him a check. Just like that! I didn't have to pull a permit until I was ready to build. I think when it was all said and done, I paid about $1500 in fees.

Logsurfer2: Don't pull the trigger. Go buy yourself some land somewhere in the country (out of CA) and you'll be much happier. The land is so much cheaper, the taxes are lower, the people are friendlier (sorry to any CA members) and you don't have to wait in a line for anything!! Believe me....there really is life outside of CA.
My two cents worth.

Thanks for the encouragement! I guess being born & raised in CA does make it hard to move out. Where would I go when I've never been out of here?!?! It's a hard thought....and could I find a job? Not to mention how mad all my family would be, but that is another story. I have resigned that we either have to get a hefty loan (maybe $150,000 for land, permits and utilities) so we can keep our jobs here and stay by family, or wait until we are ready to retire in 15 years or so and just pick a dot on a map and go balls out! LOL We just got back from a small vacation to OR last week, and I would consider a "vacation" log home, but I don't know how I would be able to be up there unless I quit my job now....just details that we have to work out. Praying we don't lose our desire or steam along the way ;-)

[rocklock]

Against my better judgment, I shall write a few words. I was raised in Fresno. I left in 1970 having graduated from FSC, never to return. I really like the Gilroy, Hollister, Pachaeco Pass Area. I did a search and found lots of lots in the general area. I have no idea what the cost would be but the land exists. I know there are some real rural areas. Maybe there is a auction or bankruptcy that you could build on.

But the real reason for these few words is you comment about your family. No matter what, to be successful in this endeavor you must have your family in agreement. Everyone must strive to succeed because this is or can be an extremely trying project. You will probably need to live on the land during construction along with many other challenges.
Best of luck

[loghousenut]

Family, Family, Family...

Rocklock hit the most important part of the equation right on the noggin. If you want to live alone and talk trash about the ex, the easiest way to have that opportunity is to head out on this crazy notion without the full support of the entire family. Not talking Mom and Dad or Inlaws here unless they are in control of you or your spouse's brain. If you are getting ready to cut the cord and make a radical move and build that dream house (or vacation cabin) it has to be a family dream and undertaking. No promise of how good it's gonna be can keep a family together through the kind of sacrifice that has to happen for that type of change.

The flip side of that coin is that true bonding can happen if this is a truly communal dream. My wife can goad and cajole me through severe hardship when the chips are down and she'll be the first to say that it is the same way in reverse. If this LHBA thing were my dream and she was just hanging on because of my promises, she woulda dumped me long ago for some guy with a condo in town.

I think our family has it easier than most on this forum simply because we are at a different stage in life than most, but we have seen it all at one time or another. If I lived the city life in some Megapolis somewhere, I hope I'd have the fortitude to stuff a bunch of cash in a bag and get to wherever I wanted to plant roots and start remaking my life. If I were doing it right now I'd want it to be my Wife's idea.

PS.... I know my Wife as well as anyone and I can tell you that it would be her idea and it would work. She took the class with me in 1989.

[pinewood]

WNYcabinplannin Though I have not ordered plans yet (Feb 2011 Class) I am certain I will be satisfied with the 30x30 stock plans. You mentioned that he could have used the 30x30 plan and added the basement so I assume there is room to add the basement stairs. I have the perfect location for a walk-out basement so do you think I could just find a draftsman (to save some $$) to add the basement and then find an engineer to stamp it? Thanks for your input or that of others.

~Dane~