How to price a B&P log home?

[RJones]

Hello everyone, I am a new member here and absolutely love what you guys are about. First things first.....I know...."Take the class". I have signed up for the class alert and even sent an email requesting any available openings. I am ready to jump in!
For the past month or so I have been thinking about how I can get out from under my mortgage. I just spent two weeks in the Yellowstone/Tetons area visiting a friend. While I was there I took special notice to all the log cabins. I have been there many times before but this time it was different. Probably because I am getting older now and starting think about retirement and stop feeding the grid! I have always liked the looks and feel of a log cabin (especially the ones in Yellowstone/Tetons park) but never really thought about buying or building one. So, when I got back from my trip, I started searching the net for information how to get off the grid, retire early, get out of a mortgage, ect.. I stumbled onto this website and have not looked at anything else for two weeks! This site is more than just about building a log cabin, its about becoming free of the grid, eliminating debt, retiring early, helping each other and many other things (to many to list here)! There are really some good helpful people around here (rreidnauer, G'pa, rocklock, edkemper, Ellsworth, Stressmna79, and many more).
Now on to the good stuff, I have limited construction experience, I am an electrical/Network engineer by trade. I have finished out three basement and can do the framing, wiring, plumbing, sheetrock stuff. I heat my home with wood that I harvest, so I know my way around trees and chainsaws pretty good. I am currently living the American dream (yeah right), including 25 yrs left on my $1300 month mortgage, $200-$250 power bill on a single income supporting a family of four. We have alot of equity in our home and a good savings (more than most), but at this rate I wont get to retire until I am 65 and most likely die before I am 75! This is NOT an option for me!!
I need to rethink my lifestyle and elimnate my debt. You guys are doing exactly what I need to be doing so I am hooked...line sinker and all! The wife is on board with taking action in our lifestyle. Here are some questions that I have:
1. I want to estimate how much a B&P log home will cost me. I am thinking a 30 x 30 either on a basmement or two story (3 bedroom, 2 bath). Unfinished on the inside except for mabye the kitchen and bathrooms. How should I go about this?
2. I have signed up for the class alert. How often do they hold classes?
3. Can my wife and I really build this thing ourselves? She is small and petite (but still the boss) and we have access to a truck, trailer, and a large 4x4 tractor with a front loader and haybale fork.
4. I work M-F so weekends and vaction would be the only time to work on it. How long would it take to get the "shell" up. I know it depends on this and that and the other, but give me a ball park idea.
I want to go this route and make sure I can do it without a mortgage. I have about $120K maximum budget, but want to spend less! i am currently looking for land ( I know, wait till I take the class), but land has dropped around here and I want to take advange of that.
I am looking forward to getting to know you folks better in the future! I hope you can help me out of this American nightmare and start living the REAL American dream!

Thanks,
Randy

[Basil]

1. I want to estimate how much a B&P log home will cost me. I am thinking a 30 x 30 either on a basmement or two story (3 bedroom, 2 bath). Unfinished on the inside except for mabye the kitchen and bathrooms. How should I go about this?

It's hard to do, to be honest. You'll have to price things individually, locally. The class teaches you how to scrounge, bargain hunt, etc. to a certain degree. But your timeframe is important, too. If you have time to bargain hunt, you can build for less than if you are in a hurry. A rough idea can be gotten by going to home improvement stores with your plans, then price the items as if you are going to buy them new.
2. I have signed up for the class alert. How often do they hold classes?

Rarely, i think. more in the winter than the summer, as many people are building in the summer.
3. Can my wife and I really build this thing ourselves? She is small and petite (but still the boss) and we have access to a truck, trailer, and a large 4x4 tractor with a front loader and haybale fork.
I built with almost no help at all. You can do it all alone, although i wouldn't recomend it...
4. I work M-F so weekends and vaction would be the only time to work on it. How long would it take to get the "shell" up. I know it depends on this and that and the other, but give me a ball park idea.
Once i got the hang of how to do this, i could do a course of logs per day, alone. This does not include the first course, which is REALLY hard alone. I think most have found this to be a good speed, with the proper equipment. so, lets say two full days for the first course, then one full day for each additional course. How high ya want to go? As far as roofing, there are too many factors to even guess...
I want to go this route and make sure I can do it without a mortgage. I have about $120K maximum budget, but want to spend less! i am currently looking for land ( I know, wait till I take the class), but land has dropped around here and I want to take advange of that.
I built a 3000 square foot log home with giant windows, 3500 feet of decks and porches, an outdoor kitchen and bar, 4 bathrooms, stone floors and new appliances. I didn't spend 120k. I wish i had built smaller now, but i love the house and really never intend to move. If you find the perfect spot, at the perfect price, buy it. You'll figure out what to do with it, but don't compromise. There's lots of land out there...

[RJones]

Thanks for the response Basil!
If you dont mind me asking how did you handle the air conditioning for your home?
Did you use logs that are local or ship them in from somewhere else?
Can I see a pic of your home? How long did it take you to build?
Did you build your own foundation or did you contract that out?

Sorry for all the questions, but I am really excited that this will work for me. I need to see some numbers on paper before I can take action. Then I can start scrounging for materials.
Thanks,
Randy

[RJones]

Thanks for the response Basil!
If you dont mind me asking how did you handle the air conditioning for your home?
Did you use logs that are local or ship them in from somewhere else?
Can I see a pic of your home? How long did it take you to build?
Did you build your own foundation or did you contract that out?

Sorry for all the questions, but I am really excited that this will work for me. I need to see some numbers on paper before I can take action. Then I can start scrounging for materials.
Thanks,
Randy

[rreidnauer]

1. I want to estimate how much a B&P log home will cost me. I am thinking a 30 x 30 either on a basmement or two story (3 bedroom, 2 bath). Unfinished on the inside except for mabye the kitchen and bathrooms. How should I go about this?
2. I have signed up for the class alert. How often do they hold classes?
3. Can my wife and I really build this thing ourselves? She is small and petite (but still the boss) and we have access to a truck, trailer, and a large 4x4 tractor with a front loader and haybale fork.
4. I work M-F so weekends and vaction would be the only time to work on it. How long would it take to get the "shell" up. I know it depends on this and that and the other, but give me a ball park idea.
I want to go this route and make sure I can do it without a mortgage. I have about $120K maximum budget, but want to spend less! i am currently looking for land ( I know, wait till I take the class), but land has dropped around here and I want to take advange of that.
Welcome to LHBA Randy.
1. As Basil mentions, the variable are too great to make an estimate. That being said, you could potentially build a 30x30 for as little as maybe 30~40K with clever resourcing, perhaps even less. You have the skills required to handle all phases of construction. Thereby, if you avoid hiring contractors, you will keep your costs low, as at least half of a built home's cost is labor.
2. There is no set schedule of classes. I would expect there will be more classes before the year is out. (however, there is no guarantee)
3. In a single word, yes. People with greater limitations have done it, so can you. It's pretty simple work. Just don't mistaken simple for easy. There is a reason it's called sweat equity. Your equipment will help immensely. You might have to come up with clever ways to use that equipment in ways it was never meant to be used, but that's just part of the resourcefulness that makes it all possible.
4. If and at all possible, live on the property you are building on. At the very least, live very close by. The grind of a long commute to/from the property each time will take it's toll as the early exhilaration wears off. Long travel times will slow the project down more and more as time goes on, and making trips less and less frequently, because of the lack of desire to make the drive for the umpteenth time. Obviously, this will effect build time immensely. I think Basil's "four logs per full work day" is a good base model. Chances are it can be more, but best to be conservative on guesses.
120K is way more than I'm planning on spending. You should easily be able to do the same if you can demonstrate extreme spending control and budgeting. Those who have more to spend, typically will. If you set an absolute "can not exceed" limit right from the start, and stick to it no matter what, you will manage to get it done for that. (gosh, if gov't could only learn that feat) It may cause delays in the project, but it will get done. This is how it happens for those who don't have a lot to spend in the first place. It happens all the time. I set a CNE limit for my land purchase. I had very high requirements, and what looked like an impossible task eventually got done inside my limit. It took a lot of swimming against the current, but I found a way to get it done. The same will hold true for my upcoming build. I will refuse to compromise quality for savings, so I will have challenges. But one way or another, I will get to my end goal.

[RJones]

Thank you both for all the great information and advice. I am waiting for the class email alert, but in the mean time I am going to start looking for land with a strong stream on it. I am going to generate power with a hydro-turbine and solar panels for my log home. I have been thinking of installing electrical/plumbing in the home like a motorhome/camper and larger boats use. Install a DC water pump with a pressure switch and flexible water hose for plumbing. Also, Install a DC electrical system to run lights, small appliances, fans, ect.. and use AC for the big stuff. Not sure about this yet. I know there is a pretty high effeciency loss using inverters. DC circuits just have alot of advantages. Anyways, I have many other steps to take before I get to this. I would be interested to hear how other people run their homes off the grid. Has anyone done that with these Log homes? Maybe something similar? I just want to be off the grid in my paid for log home. I hope to see you guys on the members side one day! I'll be around reading all I can.

Goodluck with your projects!
Randy

[loghousenut]

You won't trust me on this one but trust me anyway. The figures don't matter. Whatever the numbers are behind the dollar signs, they are just numbers and the solution is the same... Simplify!. If you are wondering if you can do it... You can. If you are wondering if you can afford it... You can. Sure, you may die in the middle of the project (it has happened recently) but the odds are that you and your mate can make a go of it and come out smelling like a rose.
If you do it the way my family has, it will be a bit of work and a bit of sacrifice. If you are like my family, you will love every minute of the work and the sacrifice will be barely noticeable. What is taught here is a scheme to get yourself out of the "debt for 30 years scheme". In my particular case, we have paid off our land and are building the coolest log home in Grants Pass, Oregon. When we are done we will own it all free and clear. It will still be a very useable home in 80 years and the stories of how it was built will still be passed around when the family gets together.
Perhaps the most important aspect of our build is that our 18 year-old Son (Jake) has been involved from the start. He has committed to doing his first 2 years of college locally so he can help finish this house. Of all the things he learns at college (he is an A student) he will invest more of his character in building this house than in all the schooling he could possibly attain at university. i have no doubt that, if I died tinoight, this house would get built and thos ewho built it would be better off for the experience.
Take the class.

[ivanshayka]

Randy - you are looking to purchase a piece of land, this is a first step for you. I dont know your requirements and price renge for it, but I can tell you what I have done so far. I have found 5 acres (in northwest Michigan) with Red pine trees already on it. I am inteding to use them for my logs (walls). I paid $17,500 for it (in2008), but it was for sale 3 years prior to this for $27,000. When I priced logs at logging company they estimated $150-300 per log (mind you it is "retail"), in this estimate I would have to pay in range of $12,000-20,000 just for logs. I figured I just bought logs by purchasing this property and got land for free. Not realy, you can still find better deals on logs than what I have told you. For me it was a major reason for buying that land. Now I am having hard time finding deal like that. If any members tell you different, take their advice because they have taken the class and many of them have built a log home already (or in process). I plan to take the next class and start building soon after. We will probably meet in the class. I still have many unanswered questions myself and inted to find them out soon.

[ivanshayka]

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[RJones]

I do trust you, I have seen you around here alot and you always give sound advice. I beleive you about the number not meaning much, but I always like to see it on paper first if possible. I am already starting to think differently about this project. Now I am thinking, "why not try to build the thing for free as much as possible and take my time"? I will only come out farther ahead if I go into the project thinking this way. I have always been good at getting "the deal", finding treasures, and reusing materials for other things. Here is what I am thinking right now (and I am sure it will change), buy a piece of land with good water supply, take the class (which ever comes first), then build a small barn that will house all my materials as I gather them up for the home. This way I will have a place (onsite and not have to move materials twice) to store all my materials. Once the home is complete, I can use the barn for a workshop/power shed.
My wife likes the whole idea of getting out of debt and living simple again, but she is the type that doesnt get excited until she can "see" the project start to take shape. She is a real visual person, but she is also a hard worker and not affraid of dirt or sweat. I have two boys 5 and 10 and I think this would be a good experiance for them, too. I am not afraid of sacrifice and your right, if I can keep them involved enough, they might not notice the sacrifices that we would be making. This is really good advice!
I am waiting for the email alert and I will be first in line to take the class! I have the money and I am ready to go! It sucks to think about it because I believe there is a class going on right now in Vegas as I type this, man I wish I could have gotten in that class.
Thanks again for all your good advice and I know we will be talking more. I am new to this site and the ideas, but I KNOW this is what I want. And with LHBA's help, I KNOW I can do this!

[RJones]

Ivan...that is really good information to know. It gives me an idea of what other people are doing and help me gauge what I am doing. I am going to follow the same route you did. It only makes sense if your going to buy land, you might as well buy land that has wood to use in your home. There are plenty of parcels around here that are heavily wooded as I am located in the Blue Ridge Mountains. I am taking the next class offered so look for me there and here! Thanks and goodluck with your project!
My Goal: Build my own log home and get off the grid!

[jasonfromutah]

Its impossible IMO to know what a house would cost to build. We the economy constantly changing, who knows what will happen.
I have taken the log home route in probably a less convential method. Shortly after taking the class, I hired a contractor to build a "stick" built house. I was just starting a new business and had 0 time to commit to a project. Now, as I have become a little more established, I have similiar goals like your own. I want to get out of debt. I have a foundation in and am in the process of peeling logs. My plan is to finish the house without getting a loan from a bank. The beauty of this IMO is that I am under no deadline to finish. Therefore, if I need to take a month or 2 off in order to catch up $$$$ wise, I can.
I plan on renting mine out for a few years. Its great for tax purposes and I will probably sell it in a few years. Once I do, I should be able to pay off my current residence. My ultimate goal is to build a second vacation cabin in the hills, away from EVERYONE lol...
Since I still have a busy schedule, I am glad I built less than a block away from my current home. I can't begin to tell you how much easier it makes it. Just a few of my journeys towards my ultimate goal of getting this built.
It sounds like you are definately in the right frame of mind and have the attitude to make it work. Best of luck.... PS: Absolutely, for sure, without question,...have your wife take the class as well. It is worth every penny!!!!

[rckclmbr428]

Glad to see another Virginian on here, I'm actually a West Virginian, but migrated to Roanoke a couple years back, whereabouts are you?

[RJones]

Howdy Neighbor, I live out in the country outside of Bedford, were pretty close! I work in Lynchburg, though. I wish they would hurry up and announce the next class! lol....cookybaby at yahoo dot come. I look forward to talking with you more in the future.
My Goal: Build my own log home and get off the grid!

[edkemper]

Randy,1. As you can probably guess, #1 must be to take the class.My favorite story is about one of us that built their place for I believe it was $28,000 and was complaining about that because their fireplace cost them $12,000 of that total. Others will easily spend over $100,000 for theirs.I can also share this, note under the person's name on the left, does it say LHBA member? That is a key. It means we've been through the class and are now part of the family. Our opinions will all likely follow a similar direction but often a different path of travel. There's more than a few important reasons you'll learn in class. Wait to do just about anything until after the class if you want to save money.2. Often. But the right one for you will be when it's the right time, for you.3. I'm a gimpy 59yo, 5'10 & 220#s. Wife is "younger" and "almost" 5 foot, about 100#s and a city born and raised immigrant. You can find out if you can do it by getting on the member's side (post class) and volunteering to help others for your own experiance. Meaning, yes you two can do it if it's important enough. You just need the right information and guides. Your wife might just surprise both of you. For sure, you'll surprise each other.4. You use the time you have and it gets done. If you have limited time, don't expect to finish it in a couple of months. It's the joy of the journey more than a race. There are some that can finish in a manner of a few months. Others, a decade. It's still better than 30 years.You can do this debt free. You already have more of a budget than most. The most beautiful land in the world could be the worst place to build. If prices have been dropping already, wait until after you (& the wife) take the class, by then the prices should be lower. The economy will rise long after you've finished the class. If you have money for land, put a small amount out for the next class and your land purchase will be far better and possibly cheaper.> I am looking forward to getting to know you folks better in the future!You are a sick individual. We like that. You'll get along great here with the rest of us.

[RJones]

I love that quote of yours..."Its the joy of the journey more than the race". I wouldnt be able to do it any other way, due to my family and real job, time is limited these days. I get your point about being a member gives you the key to the other side of the forums. I know that is where the real fun begins, but I will just have to wait (not by choice). Since you are a member and most likely have more influence than me, can you motivate the instructors to go ahead and announce another class? haha I am not going to get in a hurry to buy some land, but I will watch the market pretty closely as we want a nice piece of land on the side of a mountian with a strong stream. That will be hard to find and surely be expensive, too. But, I am looking at it like this (correct me if I should be looking at it another way), if I can get my logs, water, and Power (generated by hydroturbine) with my land, its worth the extra cost of the land, right? Do you have any pics of your home?

[RJones]

Jason, thanks for your information, It is worth alot to me! I really like hearing what others are doing. It gives me some great ideas and something to compare with what I am doing. I wish we had those big tall straight pines that you have out there. What do they call those, Lodgepines, I think? I know what you mean about building close to where you live now. I am looking at land within 10 miles of my current home. Unfortunately, living on the land while building the log home is NOT an option for me. I would love to see some pics of your project! Has anyone on here built a log home "off the grid" before? I want to go off the grid with my home.

Randy

[Mosseyme]

Hi Randy,
Found the LHBA just like you and many others. We were already on our journey to build on our own in a different style when I made this discovery was able to get into a class before doing any more damage. We were building out of Hemlock logs from our land in order to salvage them before they died. We were planning to do large D logs but of course are now going round. Many of our logs had already been cut shorter than we really need now so we are still playing with plans. We have enough trees left to get most of what we need in the longer logs but we have a lot of taper and crook in these hemlocks which makes them beautiful to look at but hard to build with. We are building off the grid and plan to build a hydro system for power but that is down the road. We live 3 1/2 hours from our build so a lot of time is wasted on the road. If I ever figure out how to load pictures on this site I will show how tight our build footprint is and how crooked our logs are. You sound so ready to start that I wanted to suggest that you just fly to Las Vegas and crash the party LOL We are building out of Murphy NC way back up in the mountains. Enjoy the journey.

[hawkiye]

You can do it if you have the desire. Couple tips on buying land. If you can get some with enough of your own timber to build the house that will save you a bundle even if you have to hire a logger to log it for you. And make sure to give your self 30-40 feet of relatively flat grround on all four sides of the house. We picked a spot with a beautiful view on the side of a mountain but is made things difficult for staging the logs for lifting. As others have said it would be better to wait till after you take the class to do anything however if you get that killer deal on land nefore then keep these things in mind.
PS a shaded area to peel the logs is very helpful. Also as others mentioned close to home to cut down the drive. My place is over an hour away and it has been tough. If you want to eliminate the mortgage build a garage with a loft for tools and materials and live in the loft.

[hawkiye]

Mossyme,
I learned to straighten logs pretty well with a chain binders. My logs sat out on the sun and twisted up pretty good. But you can look at my house and you'd never know.

[RJones]

It is really comforting knowing there are others in the area that are members and doing the same thing. My brother lives in Murphy, NC. Sounds like you have a real challenge with your logs. Let me know when you get some pics, I would love to see them! Its a good thing you found this site before you went to far. There is a house down the road from me that is a D log home and I always thought it was a beautiful log (not knowing any better). But now I look at it and see nothing more than a stick built home with small milled siding...lol. Yeah, I thought about flying out there and crash the party, but then that wouldnt make very many freinds in the association! Its no biggie though, I have plenty to do until the next class. I would like to hear your plans for going of the grid. My ultimate goal is to use Hydro and wind/solar if I have to. Man, this is really exciting to know how many people out there are stepping up to the plate and taking charge of their futures. We all know the government and public utilities/services dont give a damn about us or our grandchildren!

[rocklock]

several thoughts
Have you talked to your wife about the off the grid thing? You really need everyone in the family to agree...
Does your utility company allow the excess energy that you generate to be pumped back into the system and you can earn a few bucks?
Do you consider that if you generate more power than you use "off the grid"?
Have you done research why the old pond and water wheels are still not operating?
Just a few thought from some one that has stacked a few logs with and without electricy... Good luck with that camping thing...

[Mosseyme]

Rocklock is right, you really need to explore what off the grid will mean for you. We have had our place for 12 years and have been semi-camping there for 2 weeks or more at a time. We built a 10x12 tool shed years ago to prevent having to take everything back and forth on trips. We soon turned it into our cabinette and bulit another tool shed. It has a loft for sleeping, abuilt in porta-bucket, Water is a rubbermaid box in the creek with hoses run to the shower and the cabin. We added an 12x15 covered porch to the front and that is the kitchen. I installed a kitchen sink from HD that was a special order $300 sink that got bumped I got it for $35. some soap and clorine do fine on the dishes and a propane stove 3-burner does well for the cooking. So this is our setup when we go out to work. No hot water, a lot of bugs and very hard work. WE love it. Well, maybe not the bugs. The last trip out I had a spider bite that swelled up my entire arm, Gary got into a yellow jacket nest 13 stings and we found a copperhead in the wood pile. Life is interesting. Maybe after you get your brother informed we can connect with him.

[Agape.Ranch]

Off-Grid does not equal lack of modern convenience...
I have toured homes with all the modern day amenities and they were totally "off grid" system homes. Some were even computer controlled: the blinds, the windows (open/shut for air temp), all temp controls. As a matter of FACT I have seen homes with all modern electrical technology built in, with no outside input at all.
Most people who toured the homes I have seen could not tell from the tour that it was a completely off-grid system. The only thing the house was "connected" to was the internet, and this was by cell card.
Look up Backwoods Solar, they are a business that actually has their business completely off grid. They are in the market of off grid systems as it is. They are the nicest people (Idahoans of course), they can answer all questions regarding the disconnected life, and they won't even try to sell you a thing.
Note: Nicest thing about hydro, is that if you do a grid tie system, as long as the water is moving you are creating electricity (24 hours a day). Which equals money in your pocket (sold back to electric company).

[Mosseyme]

When I tell what we are doing now off grid I am not talking about permanent I am just saying I know I can do it at whatever level it ends up but everyone can't do that. Most of my family and friends think I am crazy even when we get modern conveniences. We do have a generator for whatever needs that can handle and this summer that included a portable air conditioner for our shack.

[edkemper]

I don't know how any other states do things but as an example, in CA we can only sell enough power back to the grid as we use. Meaning, if you produce 1000 (just a figure for comparison) per year and use 1200, you pay for the 200 at the end of the year. If you produce 1500 and only use 1200 per year, they say thank you for the extra 300. We are not allowed by law, to be a power company selling electricity.

[Mosseyme]

That is interesting, I don't know what the policy is in NC. We at this time do not plan to hook u p with the grid at all. When we bought our place it was almost 3 miles to the closest transformer box and lines. Some guy up the road decided he wanted it to his cabin and paid I think about $60,000 bringing it in. We love the quite seclusion and didn't want power brought in. Power means people and increase taxes.
Even if we did want to bring power down to our place it is about 2300 feet or more to the site from the road. $8.00 x 2300 = $ 18,400 We think we can do a pretty good hydro system for that and not cont to feed the grid.

[loghousenut]

Off the grid is not that tough. I/we did it for 10 years or so, starting with candles and Coleman lights, progressing to generators, on to solar power, and eventually to hydro power. Modern electronics has really improved the lives of those who live $120,000 away from the nearest power pole. Pick up a copy of Home Power magazine and get in touch with Backwoods Solar or some of the other advertisers. You can start as small as you want and add to it as you can afford it. If I were building a house that I knew would never connect to the grid, I would wire it with a number of separate circuits that I could bring on line as the system grew. They need not be low voltage circuits. Modern Inverters have made 120 Volt AC power a reality to off the grid folks.
Grid tie-ins for those who are near a power pole are also a viable alternative. It saves the price and hassle of batteries and can help to pay for the system. If I had a good power producing location and was planning a grid tie-in, I would finish the build using city power and worry about the alternative stuff after I had a CO and was settled in. In reality, free power costs money and cheap power (from thr grid) is really quite affordable.
One thing I know is that it can be done in style. We were 6 miles from the nearest power line. In the final stages of developement our system became very sophisticated and user friendly. We had computers, sound system, TV/VCR (no TV reception), washer, gas dryer, refrigerator, tons of lights on whenver we fancied, running water of course and everything else but a toaster and AM radio (FM was fine but AM had static). I recall the time an old freind came to a bar-BQ and ended up staying the night. Sometime the next afternoon he had been wandering around the place and came to ask me what that thing in the box was with the water leaking out. I showed him and he was amazed. He had no idea that we were not on city power.

[Agape.Ranch]

Most counties in California WILL rebate your full install of solar equipment 75%. So you only have to come up with 25% of the cost of install, and it is yours!
So that could pay for years of feeding the grid with extra power. Technically you would get paid to back feed. States like Cali are looking at allowing residents to add solar systems and knowing that most people use most electricity at dawn and dusk (except for air conditioners). They know that the extra electricity that they paid for up front, but discounting your install they will benefit from the power being poured into the grid. Hey, it is still cheaper than paying 100% of the system right?

[RJones]

Rocklock, yes, I have talked with my wife about it. She is on board with the whole plan and knows there will be a few sacrifices in the beginning. I plan on using solar, wind, a genny for the big stuff, and hydro. You dont have to live without most of the modern conveinces if you set it up right. I will use a battery bank and designed system for my needs. I can use a dummy load for any power I dont use. I am not planning on connecting to the grid at all at this point. However this all could change as I start designing the system. I have done limited research so far, but I know it can be done, as there are alot of people already doing it. I am taking it one step at a time. Depending on where I buy the land, I might just connect to the grid and then go off later as I get ready. First things first, All together now...."Take the class" ...then get the log home built. Boy, this is going to be alot of fun! I would love to hear any other off the grid experiences! This is a great group of people!

[StressMan79]

from visiting my place in the sticks. I have 100 W of solar and a 3500W genny for power tools.
The biggest and first advantage to going off the grid is not tha lower utility bills or anything like that. Buying off the grid will be MUCH cheaper. You can buy a whole lot of gas for 40k+
the electrical system will be more complex unless you just want an "on grid" experience, then just get tons of panels and a big battery bank and a big true sine inverter and plug it all together. You can make a system for less than 1/4 the cost if you are smart with your loads. Anyway, enjoy the process and TTC. (Take the class).
-Peter
P.S. thanks for including me as a "helpful member" in your original post. I do what I can.

[edkemper]

You've been sorely missed. Seems like many weeks. The first order of business is getting on-line when you're there. I think that should be one of your priorities. <smile> You are the one that has become an indispensable member of this family.
So glad you're back and back on course.