Squaring off logs

[Lazylogger]

I read in the FAQs that there are to many reasons why squaring off the top and bottom of the logs is not a good idea. Can anyone explain why?
I am planning on doing just that and have recently designed an built a chainsaw mill for that purpose. My intent is to square three sides of the logs.

[Shark]

One of the reasons is because when you cut into a log to flatten it, you are removing the natural layers of the log that protect it. Additionally, when you have flat on flat sections of log, moisture will want to wick into that joint & could cause issues.

If you are planning to build a log structure, I'd suggest taking the class if you can. It will save you alot of money in the long run.

[loghousenut]

Go out in the scrap pile and find two pieces of lumber that have been sitting since the last rain with thier flat sides together. Notice that they are wet when you pull them apart. Also notice the stuff that is growing in between them. That's the tuff that tries to eat milled log houses for lunch. Any moisture that hits the crack wants to migrate in to where the fungus wants to grow.
Take the class. With a name like yours you'll fit right in and you'll be an easy convert.

[Lazylogger]

Thanks guys! I'm glad I asked. I would love to take the class hopefully they have one in the northeast. It seems like you have a good group of enthusiasts here.

[Shark]

Yes, we have alot of great folks around here, & especially on the member's side.
I took the class in 2006 & we've been in our place for over a year now. Absolutely wonderful.

[RockEngineer]

There are designs out there for D-Logs with 3 sides flat but one thing you always want to be careful about is mixing methods. The people I have known who have made their own D-logs or used just flat sections mated have problems sealing between the logs to keep them air tight. That's where some people get the idea log homes tend to be cold. The LHBA method uses rebar to connect the logs which limits settling but as you logs shrink or expand the gap between the logs changes. There is rolled up insulation between the logs behind the chinking to fill this void as the logs expand and contract to keep the system tight for air infiltration. Some D-log designs use spikes or lag bolts about every 24". The ones that work best tend to overdrill the connector in the upper log so the spikes or screws don't hold the logs apart as they expand and contract and you don't change the gap but your whole wall will settle as your logs dry out and depending on your climate there will be season expansion and contraction of the log wall.
Of course as pointed out, you then have to have a method to deal with any moisture intrusion. Whatever system you use, you have to research and look closely at to make sure all aspects are thought through. That's why there are many different building systems for log homes each with their own unique problems. If you follow the LHBA system as taught in the class, most of these problems have been well thought through. If you start changing any of the systems and doing your own thing, you have to think through all the possible problems you may be causing or live with them when they occur. Good Luck.

[Lazylogger]

Thanks Richard, My plan was to mill a groove in the center of the log and use spray foam to seal the logs, Then screw them down. I've been looking for a fungal treatment without much luck so far. To deal with the water intrusion I was thinking a wrap around porch and really big overhangs to keep the rain off. I am fortunate, I have the trees on my property so I should be able to compensate with adding roof size. Which brings me to my next question, What is better? I have white cedar and spruce trees to choose from. Any suggestions there?
Thanks Neil

[loghousenut]

White Cedar or Spruce? Which species would give you the better house. When you walk the property and measure do you have enough of one or the other to make the house. What diameters are they and are they good and straight? If your stock of timber is equal for both species... But of course it's not equal. Usually when you start really looking over a chunk of land that has house logs on it you'll see that you have one type of tree that just begs to be a house. Depending on the method of construction you use you may lean from to species or the other. There are ways to mix those species. For example if you want log rafters you might consider the Spruce for rafters and the Cedar for walls.
Hey Neil, You know this is all covered in class on the first day.

[RockEngineer]

My plan was to mill a groove in the center of the log and use spray foam to seal the logs, Then screw them down. I've been looking for a fungal treatment without much luck so far. To deal with the water intrusion I was thinking a wrap around porch and really big overhangs to keep the rain off. I am fortunate, I have the trees on my property so I should be able to compensate with adding roof size.
Sounds like you have a plan. I won't get into the hundred questions that pop into my mind and the possible problems. You'll figure them out when you get to them. Wrap around porches and big overhangs are a good idea. Spray foam has it's plusses and draw backs. Once it's set it won't expand more if your logs move. May or may not be a big problem depending on how dry your logs are and whether they have twist in the grain causing them to want to rotate slightly after placed and many other factors. Some people machine a groove in top and bottom so they can put in a spline to make sure there is no direct path for air from outside to inside. Lots of options.

[edkemper]

Ya gotta take the class. It's a real exciting ride. Best two days you'll spend even if you don't end up building a B&P style log home. Your view will never be the same. Welcome to the site.

[greenthumb]

How big of a cabin do you plan to build?

I'm curious about your chainsaw mill, is it based off the procut plans? Could you post some pictures?

[Lazylogger]

I would love to! I have realized very quickly that I have a lot to learn but I just can't make it right now vegas is a long way for me. We just had a baby so money is tight. Hopefully soon.

[Lazylogger]

I'm not sure yet on how big I'm going to build I'm still trying to figure out the ins and outs of this craft. The more I look it seems the more I need to learn! My back ground is mechanical so I'm more into working with steel than wood.
As far as the mill goes I have looked at many styles procut being one of them. If I had to compare it it's more like the logosol M-7 with some improvements. My biggest concerns were Accuracy, length of cut, and comfort. I just cut my first log with it last weekend and I and please to say that I think I have accomplished my goals. As far as accuracy it cuts a perfect 90 degree angle the length of the log, which can be up to 22 - 23 feet long. I can't get over the quality of the cut, I am using my standard crosscut chain and it works fine. I cut three sides of a cedar log in less than five minutes. I'll be playing with it this weekend so I'll take some pictures and post them.

[Yuhjn]

I would love to! I have realized very quickly that I have a lot to learn but I just can't make it right now vegas is a long way for me. We just had a baby so money is tight. Hopefully soon.

I will absolutley positively guarentee you that if you take the class, the cost of the class plus the cost of your transportation will be saved many times over during the construction of your home. Not to mention the lifetime care of your home.
You do not want to use milled logs, you do not want logs connecting to each other in a plane. If you take the class I can guarentee you'll change your mind.
Very worst case scenario you take the class, think it's crazy, and are the first person in the 40+ year history to use the full money back guarentee offered by the LHBA. You'd be out transportation cost. But truley this is a moot point. If you take the class you'll be so incredibly happy you did, you'll do back-flips.

[edkemper]

I learned a long time ago, preparation is cheaper. Re-doing things built wrong is a lot more expensive. The Class really is the answer to saving money.

[Lazylogger]

Hello Greenthumb, If your still interested Email me and I will send pics of my mill. I can't seem to get them loaded to this site.

[StressMan79]

you need to open a photobucket account. then just copy and paste the "img tag" into the editor. this site does a poor job hosting pics if it does at all, but photobucket works well. This site just goes out and finds the pic on your photobucket site.
http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm471/stressman79/how_to_lhba/pic_upload.jpg
http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm471/stressman79/how_to_lhba/Likethis.jpg
if worse came to worse, you could just post the link to your photosharing site, and we could LEAVE (THE HORROR) the LHBA site to view your pics.
-Peter

[Lazylogger]

Not only can you learn how to build a cabin on this site you can learn how to put pictures on the web!
Well here it is. Nothing fancy But it seems to work really well. It.s fairly easy to build if you can weld and you have a way to make nice square cuts on the steel.
Thanks for your help Stressman.

http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/xx236/lazylogger/20100725-124145.jpg
http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/xx236/lazylogger/20100725-124217.jpg
http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/xx236/lazylogger/20100725-124326.jpg
http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/xx236/lazylogger/20100725-124521.jpg
http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/xx236/lazylogger/20100725-124538.jpg

[rreidnauer]

That's a really clean and simple designed mill. Very nice.

[Wildernessgal]

Hey Lazylogger,
when building a cabin is it absolutely essential to square off all the edges or does that just depend on the cabin that you are building?
I like the cabins which have the white inbetween the logs, although I have no idea what that is called.
Have fun with your mill!
Cassie

[Lazylogger]

It depends on what you want to do. It is not recomended for building a cabin for many reasons ( I haven't figured them all out yet) But the advice I have recieved from this site has been an eye opener. I think the white stuff your refering to is called chinking which seals the air gap between the logs. Good luck!

[Wildernessgal]

It depends on what you want to do. It is not recomended for building a cabin for many reasons ( I haven't figured them all out yet) But the advice I have recieved from this site has been an eye opener. I think the white stuff your refering to is called chinking which seals the air gap between the logs. Good luck!

Thanks Lazylogger.
You know, I'm kinda glad that the squaring off is not recommended. It doesn't appeal as much to me. The natural look is way better!

[Basil]

squaring makes the stacking of the logs easier, and makes it easier to build a square building. It is not recommended by the teachers however. I've seen it done both ways and so long as you are careful and follow the proper procedures either will work...

[loghousenut]

That's quite a mill you have engineered there. If it was me I woulda left a few more rough edges and I probably wouldn'ta painted it. I suppose it'll work if you don't mind running a piece of machinery that looks store bought.HAHAhahahhaha.
Take the class and keep the mill. After class you'll want to use round logs for your outside walls a but lumber for your inside walls.

[Lazylogger]

Other than the water intrusion what are the issues involved?

[Lazylogger]

I have to admit I went a little overboard on this one. Goes to show you what a few beers on a Fri. night can do to a man.

[Captn]

Other than water intrusion???

You mean that isn't enough?

[Yuhjn]

Other than water intrustion:
Cuts down on log diameter and therefore requires more logs to reach your desired height, more costrequires a lot of wear and tear on the saw doing all your house logs. Cost of gas, cost of chains, cost of bars, etcprobably requires all threading the walls together, more cost therecan have settling issues due to log shrinkageit takes longerSo other than maintenance issues, cost, and time, I guess probably nothing :)
That said, that is a tight little homemade mill... very cool! I'd just save it for doing your board and batton, rathers, joists, framing... lots of uses for the mill :)