This dummy started kit home

[RedbloodedAmerican]

Hello,
i am one of the dummies that did allot of research about log homes on the web and in magazines and took the info i gained as true and good. I bought into the "our log species combined w/ our milling and joining process creates the best log home" bunch of crap! I even went as far as to have plans drawn up, put a down payment on the logs and i have my foundation all done and capped w/ the subfloor. Hindsight has proven that everything happens for a reason. So many problems allong the way (economy, lack of work, etc.) have put a complete stop to my progress. I am a spiritual man and believed all along for some reason this house isn't supposed to be built the way we planned. Then a few weeks ago i stumbled onto this website and it all came to light. I now hope to attend the class in Boston, get most of my $$ back from down payment and finish the house the right way. I'm just worried about if my existing foundation and subfloor will be compatible w/ what is tought in class. I guess the bottome line is IT WILL HAVE TO DO... But can anyone think of any potential problems that could rise that i could fix before i start?
Also, i plan to harvest the logs from my family's 25 acres and my other question is should i fell the trees, debark and cure them now(being late winter) or wait and till I'm ready to build and then fell, debark and erect the logs green to help keep warping to a minimum? I've read both methods on this site, i would just like a little more insight. Thanks allot for any info.

[rreidnauer]

Welcome RedbloodedAmerican,

As many others have done before you, you have stumbled upon an invaluable site. Sorry you got caught up in the kithome marketing glitz and glitter, but it looks like you're jumping out of the frying pan just in the nick of time. Many member's here try our darnedest to talk folks out of that path, and despite the fact we don't make a dime trying to convince people to the LHBA way, there are many who still remain skeptical. I've stopped bothering answering the same old question of whether this is for real. I think the site easily speaks for itself, and let those unsure to draw their own conclusions.

So, to help you with your questions. Tell us a little more about your foundation. What are the dimensions? Wall thickness? When you say "subfloor", do you mean the first or groundlevel floor, or a basement floor? Is the intent of the log home walls to sit ON the subfloor? If so, that's going to be one change you'll need to make. A real log home is too heavy to sit upon a dimensional lumber floor.

What species of trees you plan on cutting? It's getting already late in the winter to be cutting trees, but anytime works. Spring and Summer cut wood peel and rebar easier, but they are going to be a lot heavier and prone to more checking and initial mold battles. Late Fall and Winter cut has the opposite advantages/disadvantages. In either case, shrinking and settling ARE NOT AN ISSUE so again, anytime works.

Welcome to the forums. Hope to hear more from you.

[RedbloodedAmerican]

Thanks so much for your reply! I have read many of your threads on the site and value your insite!
My foundation is a full basement and is not square in shape (oops). In the front it's 55' and sides it's 22', on the back it has a prow style bump out that is 22' wide and 15' deep at the point (10' deep on sides of prow). The walls are 10" thick. The subfloor I refered to is the first floor above the basement. It's 2x10 pressure treated sill and dimentional 2x10's across w/ 50yr advantec decking on top.
So I guess i have a few hurdles to jump (nothing new). I'll do whatever it takes to get this house done the right way. I'm a roofer by trade so not afraid of HARD work. My biggest worry is my 2 1/2 year old daughter who i need to build this house for. Right now we are living next door w/ "Grammy and Poppy". Every day that goes by i feel i'm taking something away from her.
Anyway, today i took another tour of our property and found along w/ black spruce we have a very large number of Hemlock as well. Probably more than B spruce. Would you rather build w/ hemlock if it were your house? Also, could i combine the two in the walls if I fall short of one or the other? We also have some nice white pine and a good number of hardwoods like maple, black cherry, ash, oak, poplar, and beech. what do you think of using some of these for the interior post and beam construction? I've been dreaming of a cherry staircase all along btw!
Thanks again for your help!!!!

[StressMan79]

You can make that basement work.

OK, news: you'll have to get a bit creative to make those dimensions work. a "class taught" standard square house won't work, and I doubt you can make a standard bnp house work with that aspect ratio. I would consider going with a short/long log hybrid system. The class won't teach you how to do this, but the member's here will help, and what you learn on wood from the class will make this possible (and will make it easier to use your prow)

the difficult news is as rod said, you can't put "real" logs on top of a floor system. Each log will weigh as much as the stick framed wall that typically goes on top, so even 8 or 10 logs high will weigh as much as an 8 story wall. If you are smart and resourceful, you can save some/all of it, and hang it from the first course of logs, or maybe (talk to an engineer) from the basement (although that is easier to do if you are designing from scratch)

The best news is that you can make this work, you will just need to be smart about it, use slightly "pseudo" standard methods, and if you do it right, you'll save many thousands over that kit you were going to get.

-Peter

[rawson]

Reading your blog leads me into thoughts of my endeavors in the search of an affordable approach to living on a piece of turf without being taxed into starvation. Having your property purchased with the cement basement poured you got it going for your goals. I have taken the class and would love to face the challenge of building from the ground up with a BP log home but after searching for five years I settled on a bank owned property with a solid daylight basement 8-inch thick walls with a stick built home on a hillside in Idaho County. As it was an as is purchase I have been spending lots of time in the demo mode and re-plumbing and counting the cost I have saved vs starting from scratch. Count your blessings that you saw the wrong thing and bailed out. You'd be wise to take this class plus you got guiding lights with Stressman and Rod in your corner you'll be okay, just take a deep breath wake up tomorrow and remember everyday above ground is a good day!

[rreidnauer]

Mixing species can work. Perhaps even taking advantage of differing taper ratios. (put the logs with the most taper on the shortest walls, least taper on the longest walls) I think though, a modified system of piece-en-piece construction would work best for you with those foundation dimensions. Fortunately, the foundation thickness is good.

[loghousenut]

You know you may have picked a fortuitous forum name. I have a name that commits me to a log house. You, on the other hand, could still be a RedbloodedAmerican in the stick house of your dreams. That foundation and first floor is a real head start on a conventionally constructed home. I gather from your posts that this property is where you're building and staying, so building a spec house is out of the question. I'm also gathering that you're no longer enamored with an imitation (kit) log house. If it was me, and if this site is "the spot" I'd consider the nicest stick house I could build on top of that tremendous head start. Vaulted ceilings, log pillars, cherry log staircase, great room with a killer view. You have lumber waiting to be milled for siding and that huge Cherry or Oak tree would sure make a goodlookin bar top.

There are several things about your head start foundation that make it less than suitable for a LHBA-stlye B&P log house. I'm just wondering if it couldn't be a real benefit for the right style of construction.

I don't really like kit log houses. There are plenty of problems with those houses and that industry but the main problem is that they are mostly not "honest". They are made to look like something they are not. Is there anything more sad looking than an imitation log trailer house?

On the other hand a well built, hand made, stick house can be an honest achievement to be proud of. I can only guess how much you are being charged for the kit house. I can imagine what kind of stick house that would build. You are in the trades and you have the contacts to do it right. You're not afraid of hard work. Heck it almost makes me wish I was you.. Please don't tell us you are young and good looking also... I might get all suicidal.

[StressMan79]

You should now. Loghousenut just gave you some sage advice that may lead you away from building a log home. This association looks out for our members, and what is right for me may not be right for you (or for anyone for that matter). Anyway, look outside the box. Don't dismiss anything without thoroughly looking at it first--maybe a straw bale home with post/beam highlights? That way you could probably keep everything you already have and get the charm of a hand crafted home. You could even go with the stick frame suggested above. Anyway, there are lots of options--choose the one that best suits you and your situation.

P.S. I saw this american the other day...looked like this:

http://www.poptower.com/pic-17471/casey-james-american-idol.jpg

[ragdump]

Ragdump
American? don't you mean "American Idol"I watched it last night,that American sure looks like Casey James one of the top 12

[StressMan79]

I wanted LHN to squirm a bit...

Indeed, you figured out my ruse.

-Peter

[ragdump]

Ragdump
last night was the first time that I could watch it all the way thru they were all great except maybe one but then again It was Rolling stone's night and I like them

[RedbloodedAmerican]

After being on this site for a couple weeks i can tell yourself and Rod are great sources of valuable info and i really appreciate your replies.
To keep it short i'll try to keep it simple.
In terms of the foundation, to help support the 1st floor subfloor i have a few beam pockets put in w/ microlams spanning the basement along w/ posts under them. The sill is two PT 2x10's all the way around. so would i basically just try to cut out the PT sill and sit the real logs on the foundation and go from there? The joists sit on the foundation wall so if i put logs there would i just cut slots to set the joists in? That part i'll need help with.
I've read the posts from you, Rod and loghomenut, I just need to state where i'm coming from. Loghomenut gave me some good info about going w/ a stick framed home but it's just not in me. I work on stick frames all day every day and no matter what it wouldn't feel right to me. I have lived in a super rural mountain area my whole life and all i ever wanted was a LOG home. Also I'm one that always follows my heart and it's telling me to LOG it. Not to mention the all mighty $$$. The one thing I have is land and If i can cut the lumber from my own land and save, i must. So i guess i just need info on how to make a LOG home work w/ what i have.
All i know is today was another day that went by that my daughter wasn't in her house. I can't STRESS enough how rotten that makes me feel.
BUT there is very good news!!!
Like i said, I'm a spiritual man and believe things happen for a reason. Just last night i was STRESSING how I would pay the $795 for this class. Then today my wife called me from her work and told me she just found out she would be getting a bonus (just enough to pay for it) and i almost fell of the roof!!! Praise GOD!!! As long as there is still room in the class, I'll be in BOSTON in May!!!

[Timberwolf]

You'll find a bunch of people here who will be willing to help, my self included. A bunch of us are thinking of this as a challenge, and have probably built your house in our minds a couple times already (each in their own way).

Now how about tossing up some pictures so we can get "The big picture" and come up with even more ideas?

And I wouldn't stress that much, you sound like a great father, and kids are very resilient at that age. I doubt she'll even remember how long it took to build your place, just that my daddy built the "bestest house evar!"

J.

[2 cents]

hey i'm happy for you, i know you will find a way to make it work!

2 cents

[RedbloodedAmerican]

Yeah sure thing! I'll post some pics as soon as i figure out how. I have a bunch of pics in our Dell picture studio but not sure how to post a link. I'll get on that.

[StressMan79]

most members use "photobucket" and use the "" tag. You can actually use any pic that has an "html" address, just put [img] in front of the address and finish it with .

anyway, looking forward for some pics.

-Peter

[RedbloodedAmerican]

This is a view from the rear. It's the best shot of the Prow i could find. I covered it to keep the weather off the subfloor, it now has a layer of rubber on it. The subfloor sill on top of the concrete is 2x10 dimensional pressure treated - 2 wide. (hard to see under the cover), that's what i have to try to take out in order to sit the REAL logs on the foundation. Should be fun.


I know the LHBA recommends logs at least 12" in diam, but what's the largest u think? for this foundation... 8foot walls, 10" thick.





<img comp_state="speed" height="1200" id="content_image" src="aolemb://E0AA96B4-CE78-4D36-8319-9A3892FC2279/IMGP3434.JPG" style="width: 480px; height: 360px" vspace="5" width="1600" />

[Timberwolf]

However, i'm building on an 8" foundation, and my logs have butts in the 22"-24", 15"-17" tops. No problem. Granted i have lots of rebar, but even code required min is plenty for 12" logs.

[StressMan79]

so your walls could likely hold 30&quot; logs on them. I would not worry about them.
Your footer and bearing capability of the soil are concerns, they vary widely.
So you ARE committed to removing the subfloor? That is great to hear. If not, this is your weakest link. you may be able to use concrete block between the joists to route the load from the walls around the floor. This is not ideal, since blocks are 8x8x16, and I doubt your joists have exactly this spacing.
These are the practical concerns. There are also the legal ramifications of changing your design? If you live in a &quot;blue state&quot; you likely have to have the plans engineered, etc to get your CO. You could do like me and not tell anyone that you are building, then your t a x ~e s are lower... but your resale value takes a tumble. Anyway, you have an very interesting issue on your hands.
your pic did not come across. I don&#39;t know if it is due to the recent server update, but you might give it another try. remember, it should look like this (without the ~)
[~img]html_address[~/img]
-Peter

[RedbloodedAmerican]

Hope this works this time.


<a href="http://s883.photobucket.com/home/RedbloodedAmerican/index">http://s883.photobucket.com/home/RedbloodedAmerican/index</a>


Yes I believe New York is one of the most &quot;BLUE&quot; states in the country. So I&#39;m sure i have tons of legal issues to conquer. I will start a separate forum on this issue.


As far as the subfloor, does the class teach you to hang the first floor from the bottom course of logs by joist hangers? Could i just cut out the sill and crib the subfloor temporarily and then hang it from the bottom log once the walls are in place?


Anyway, i know the class teaches you to build the walls as a whole and then cut the door and window openings after. My foundation is 55&#39; across the front side, and i plan to have a front door in the middle. Seeing as how i plan to fell my own logs and i&#39;m not sure if i can get 9 courses 65&#39; long, could i just shoot for getting them to the door opening at say 32-33&#39; ?


Obviously given the foundation i&#39;m stuck w/ i will have MANY more questions to come so i will try to space them out... LOL. I trully thank all who give there &quot;2 cents&quot; I appreciate any and all help you&#39;re willing to give!!!


Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your paths straight. Proverbs 3: 5 and 6

[Timberwolf]

Your pics came through this time. Nice looking foundation. Looking at the amount of rebar in the footing, if that&#39;s carried through to the the walls, should have no problem supporting all the logs you could ever want.
As for your specifics, once you have taken the class, I&#39;ll bet a bunch of your questions will change. I wouldn&#39;t worry about the subfloor for now too much, since you&#39;re going to have to worry about how you will attach the logs to the foundation first.
I know I&#39;ll get razzed here for this, but from a strength perspective you COULD stack logs on the subfloor, if you tripled up the sill. (My eng originally drew up my plans like this, and we had to have a little discussion on why I didn&#39;t want to do this. But it could be done). I would never recommend this, but it is possible.
As for your house, I envision your house as a number of log boxes using shorter logs. If I were you, I&#39;d work with that concept for a bit, and see if you can get some ideas working for you. Then when you get to class you can tie in questions to your specific situation with what is being taught (which will in turn spawn more questions...)