Quonset Hut Outbuilding--Staging for Cabin

[DocJ]

Hi,

Looking for some advice on building an outbuilding. I have 14 acres of woods and hay field atm, as I missed the Las Vegas meeting I will be delaying building until I can attend, however I would like to put up an outbuilding on the property for storage and staging the construction of the cabin out of. Here is where I could use some advice, if Im already considering a 30 foot long quonset hut should I go to 40 feet so I could store-prep logs inside it provided cost doesnt prohibit? Im thinking stripping logs becomes a rainy-snowy day project if Im inside the quonset. Your thoughts?

Secondly, anyone know of a reputable steel-building manufacturer?

Thanks,

DocJ

[edkemper]

You need to go to the class. All your questions will be answered.

[DocJ]

Ok I FULLY understand that I need to go to the class. I am planning on going to the next class which has not yet been announced. But I am not going to delay building an outbuilding on the property for who knows how long as nothing has been announced. Perhaps it will be in January 2010 and waiting that long is no big deal, or perhaps its going to be November 2010 and I will have missed an entire year for construction of my metal hut. Now I would HATE to spend the money on a quonset hut that is too short or conversely to assume I should build it longer and find out it was unnecessary waste of money. So my original question remains, as I am planning to build a metal quonset hut, should it be long enough to accomodate the logs? Im sorry if my frustration is coming out a bit with this posting but Im not looking for insider information on log prep, log treatment, log selection, log building, construction methods, etc. I just want to build a metal shed at this point.

[patrickandbianca]

Dont build a structure to store your logs. I dont think anyone on here that has already built has done that.

Dont take this the wrong way, but building a metal quonset hut to store your logs is a terrible idea.

Building an outbuilding to store your tools and things is a good idea, but it certainly doesnt need to be 30'.

I waited three years to take the class. I had many of the same questions that I am sure you have. Once you take the class you will understand how complicated you were making something that is essentially very simple.

Patrick

[Timberwolf]

Just build whatever sized hut you need for your other needs. There is little problem with the logs being outside, provided they are properly cared for. No matter what you will need to clean them up, even if they were stored under cover.

Also, based on the HUGE amount of space my logs took up while building, you'd need the mother of all quonset huts (heck an 80x150 wouldn't hold all my logs and give me room to move them around).

[DocJ]

Thanks, I appreciate your comments. I am not building the quonset hut to store the logs per se, I want the outbuilding for storing tools, hay for cattle, tractor, etc. While I will stage construction of the cabin out of it, that is not its sole purpose for being built and is actually one of the more minor reasons. The thought came into my head that maybe if I added 10 ft it would work for logs too but I wasnt sure if that was a good idea or not. You answered that for me :D


you'd need the mother of all quonset huts (heck an 80x150 wouldn't hold all my logs and give me room to move them around).
At that point I think its no longer a hut and becomes officially a Hanger :D

[hemlock77]

You don't need a huge amount of room for equipment storage. With the exception of my generator and compressor, I have everything else in the locked utility body of bucket truck. ?As far as staging logs under roof goes, that could get trickey to move logs several times before stacking. My personal experience was it is easier to peel logs in the rain, snow that is a different story. If you plan on having some of your logs milled for lumber, I would recomend having enough storage space for air drying your lumber. 30' would be plenty long for that in most cases, depending on how big you plan on building.
Stu
?<a href="http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u64/hemlock77/">http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u64/hemlock77/</a>

[edkemper]

Please don't take this wrong but you need to slow down a bit. What you need is the class, first. You'll learn everything you'll need to know, including building a storage shed. You really have no idea what you'll be needing and storing until you take the class. Read as much of the posts on this site as soon as you can. Many things will become clearer. Most of the most important stuff will come about through the class. The most important thing the class gives you is access to the member's only sections. That is where all the details are discussed. Hang in there.

[dgc]

Having registered for the Vegas class (but not yet attended, obviously), I can't give you any experienced words of advice, but I will say this...

I've read TONS of posts in the public area of this forum, and I came away with several things clear in my mind. First, don't make any commitments until you've attended the class. This goes for purchasing land (if you can haven't already bought land before finding LHBA), purchase of tools, site planning (including water, septic, etc.), and even timeline planning. Without having sat through the class, the public information is enough to instruct me that the class content may significantly change my plans in ways that might radically alter my timelines, location of homesite (with respect to municipal boundaries), and even materials and tools purchased/used.

Here's one example of how I've had to remain flexible... In south MS, basements are uncommon. The water table is very high here, and the rain volume is also high. This poses serious issues for basements. But, in some locations (particularly those with higher elevations - e.g., on hills), a basement COULD work. I have a need for plenty of space for entertaining and family activities, but I suspect a basement won't work. Here on the board, I alluded to my idea of having a main house with two smaller side-buildings - one to hosue the family room and media room and one for a garage/utility room/workshop. The responses were just as I expected - some thought it might be ill-advised. Only time will tell, but it led me to do a search for some more information about basements (which would eliminate my planned need for a separate building for the family/media room). That renewed research made me realize that my mental vision of the house could (and likely would) change significantly after the class. Likewise, the materials I might need would also change quickly (fewer logs, windows, roof panels, etc., with fewer buildings). Finally, if I didn't need to build all three buildings, I would need less storage space and would likely take less time to build the complete project (changing storage needs and timeline projections).

So, not to sound like an expert giving advice, but merely recounting my own experience in this process, I suggest strongly that we listen to the experienced LHBA members' advice. Without knowing all your specific circumstances, I would say that even the idea of building a quonset hut may need to be put on hold until the class. One thought that comes to mind is that after the class, you may wish you hadn't built that, but rather had built a nice butt and pass storage building and shed as a practice structure, thereby perfecting your building technique and giving you the desired storage space. I dare say that would be cheaper than your currently planned quonset hut, too.

Just my two cents. Also, please don't be put on the defensive by some of the shorter and more assertive positions taken by the posts on the board. First, tone of voice doesn't move well over the internet. Second, rarely do any of the members ever intend to be brusque or flippant. Finally, even if one of the LHBA members does get a little testy or impatient, I've still found that their advice and opinions are extremely valuable and worth hearing (even in their grumpy mood, if applicable).

DGC

[DocJ]

My circumstances are such that I bought land three years ago with the idea of selling my home and having a prefab placed on the 14 acres I already own, some woods but probably not enough to harvest my own logs, not sure havent even really considered it. Recently do to the market being very slow my wife and I decided to put off selling our home. We explored the idea of maybe putting up a cabin on our land and in researching that I came across the LHBA. In chatting with my wife she said she had always wanted a cabin style home but if you look at the kit homes you need to be in a different tax bracket that what we are to afford them. So we started exploring the site. I have read every article posted on the main site and been through probably 75% of the pictures of student homes. I too have learned a great deal such as you can raise the logs with big equipment or with simple block and tackle gear, I learned how to make a log dog and a spud, that 4 corners =1 house, 8 corners = 2 houses, that the Blazeking is an awesome fireplace for the money (~$3k), that overhang is critical to keeping the logs dry, that despite my initial skepticism you can infact use green logs and that I almost cried I laughed so hard at the story of the tractor and wagon with 16 forward gears and 8 reverse gears going backward down a hill can motivate a wife in a minivan to master driving in reverse (I have a similar story of sorts but that would be off topic). I also know that many students want to start with a smaller project and that in my mind would be a garage and infact there are plans for that in the book and it is a common first project. I did get great advice to my original post: build your outbuilding to meet your other needs (hay storage, tractor storage, etc) and dont worry about the logs--Ill learn all about that at the next class. I also got a good piece of advice on the idea of air drying timber if I plan on having it milled, but that would be an after thought and not effect my outbuilding. I also know that typed words cannot convey the mood, humor or tone of the author unless of course we have a novelist among us. I recall a teacher I had that said, There is always miscommunication in every form of communication. This is also why I learned of the value of taking your spouse to the class, which I may not have done if not for reading the forums. Finally, I know that I dont know squat yet about the whole process but I do know one thing wet hay is not a good thing, a wet tractor and tools are not a good thing and I will always have a use for an outbuilding with raising cattle and kids. I hope again that this post is coming off aggressive or flippant or combative, not my intent. Just needed a few opinions on a half-baked idea. It would have been reckless and moving too fast had I went ahead and made up my mind one way or the other without consulting people that have more experience than I.
Cheers,
DocJ

[dgc]

I LOOOOOOVVVEEEEE half-baked ideas. My wife can tell you about all the visions of grandeur I've had over the years. I've dreamed so many different things in my adolescence and young adulthood, that it's a wonder she stayed married to me.

BUT... In the last 10 years, I've left one career, finished three degrees (including law school), spent two years earning a black belt in taekwondo (lifelong goal that I never seemed to commit fully to) and found a great new life with a strong commitment to the future in that new life. So, when I told her about the LHBA and that I sincerely believed we could achieve success, she didn't laugh at me this time (well, not too much anyway).

As I said in my earlier post, I've not been to the class yet, and I have absolutely no experience in the LHBA method. All I know is that the members are extremely helpful and gracious and are always willing to lend advice or opinions. Sometimes, a few of those opinions might seem rough around the edges, but I treasure them for the knowledge and experience I can get from them. Having said all that, this learning process is frustrating at times, and is not unlike military basic training or law school (or medical school). To fully understand and appreciate the information here, we have to completely UNlearn all the stuff filling our heads from years of our past experiences. Unless you were fortunate enough to have "Elsworth" as your last name and grow up with Skip and family, it's unlikely you've been taught the building concepts they have at LHBA (let alone their philosophy of life).

I applaud your effort and diligence to wade through the publicly available information. KEEP DOING IT! Read everything on this site you can and keep asking questions. Then, as you are no doubt already planning, get into the first class you can. Once you've done that, you'll be well on your way, as the members attest.

In the meantime, without stepping on LHBA toes, I can give you one piece of common sense advice that might be useful. If you do plan to hold back on making any decisions or commitments until you've attended the class, there's ALWAYS a need for cash when building, even doing it the LHBA way. Between now and the class, save every penny you can. Find a way to retire some debt. The class and traveling expenses cost money, and so does building a house. If you get a jumpstart on the cashflow issues, it could make the process much more enjoyable, less stressful and faster.

Just two more of my cents....

DGC

[panderson03]

I applaud your effort and diligence to wade through the publicly available information. KEEP DOING IT! Read everything on this site you can and keep asking questions. Then, as you are no doubt already planning, get into the first class you can. Once you've done that, you'll be well on your way, as the members attest.

In the meantime, without stepping on LHBA toes, I can give you one piece of common sense advice that might be useful. If you do plan to hold back on making any decisions or commitments until you've attended the class, there's ALWAYS a need for cash when building, even doing it the LHBA way. Between now and the class, save every penny you can. Find a way to retire some debt. The class and traveling expenses cost money, and so does building a house. If you get a jumpstart on the cashflow issues, it could make the process much more enjoyable, less stressful and faster.

Just two more of my cents....

DGC

GREAT advice from a newbie:) in this post and the one of yours before it. (of course I'm something of a newbie too, only having taken the class a few months ago..)

what's your area of law? my eldest daughter is in mergers and acquisitions.

[dgc]

Heaven help her.... M&A is somewhat like tax law (and actually involves tax law a lot) - lots of higly technical rules and very few opportunities for highly exciting cases.

I respect folks who have the stamina to do that kind of work. I'm somewhat of a general practitioner in my firm. The firm is 60+ attorneys, nearly all of whom specialize, more or less. So, I'm somewhat of a black sheep. But if I didn't have such a diverse practice, I wouldn't enjoy cases like the one I got recently. Wife runs husband down with the car. Hospital calls me to ask, "Can we report this to the police, or does HIPAA prevent us from reporting it?" The answer is, as most lawyers will tell you, "It depends." In the end, there wasn't enough information for the hospital to know whether the wife rammed her husband on purpose. So, they didn't have the necessary information to justify a belief that his safety was in imminent danger to warrant breaching patient confidentiality. I do a good bit of HIPAA consulting work. Another similar case was where one of my hospital clients discovered that a 737 pilot had a rare congenital heart defect that could cause him to lose consciousness and die of a sudden heart attack at any time and without any initial symptoms or warnings. The hospital asked if they could breach confidentiality under HIPAA to notify the FAA. Again, there wasn't enough information to demonstrate that there was an IMMINENT threat of danger to others (just a possible one). So, under HIPAA, they weren't permitted to disclose the information. But, after some discussions, the hospital realized that it might be worth taking the minor fine from the government for breaching the rule, just to be able to prevent a tragedy in the air. To this day, I don't know which path they took (they gave me plausible denial by refusing to tell me what their decision was).

In addition to the HIPAA work, I do contract work, some litigation, estate planning and probate and other various projects. I'm trying my best to refocus my efforts into estate planning/probate and commercial work (including litigation) that keeps me centered on client needs, as opposed to practice areas. So, if my contract client calls me next week with an employment discrimination defense need, I'd jump right in - but I might not take a new case from a non-client in areas outside estate planning/probate. I hope that makes sense, because I'm not sure I completely understand the strategy yet!

Thanks for the compliment about the advice. I'm looking forward to the class, and I certainly don't want to sound like I'm in any position to offer any information that you members are (for a while, anyway!). But some things are easy to learn from the public areas of the LHBA site, and some are common to all methods of building. If my barely coherent thoughts can be useful to anyone, I'm happy to offer them for whatever they're worth!

DGC

[edited for typos]

[WillandHelen]

First of all, you do not need to take the class to realize that a shop is going to be very usefull! I did just what you are saying. I built a 40x60 arc steel building from american durospan before I built my house. Believe me, having a place big enough to work and not just store things is a huge advantage. I was able to just lock the door while I had table saws and trim and who knows what else set up and ready to go for the next day. Before I built the shop I would spend a couple hours a day just putting everything back into a small shed.

Steel building companies are terrible to deal with. And I think they all get thier buildings from 2 factories. American Durospan did the least messing around with me. ("If you act right now" "we just had an order cancelled!!!" sort of things) But, they were not all that great in the end either. See what you can find. Quote as many companies as you can since you are truly comparing apples to apples.

Good Luck!

[Mark OBrien]

I think an outbuilding such as a quonset hut, pole barn etc. depending on your wants and needs is a great idea. I plan to have one for woodworking equipment, firefighting equipment, etc. The only caution I have is to plan very carefully where you would build it. It needs to be in harmony, for lack of a better term with your planned building site. You don't want an obtrusive building blocking access to your site, or blocking your view from your home. Pick your building site for your home and then plan your outbuilding to complement your home and not detract from it. I plan on living as rural as possible so I want to have a tanker truck of some kind for firefighting, hauling water and so forth. A quonset hut would be perfect for that.