Structural insulated roof panels?

[Shoeless77]

Hello,

I'm wondering if anyone has used structural insulated roof panels for their roof?

Once the rafters are up these seem to be the easiest way to put the roof and have it insulated in one step.



http://www.raycore.com/roof.html

[rocklock]

I really like the idea of sips... but they are very expensive. We have discussed other alternatives in the members area and my roof is an example.

[cabininpa]

I have built 2 homes with structural insulated roof panels made by Raycore. SIPS have a reputation for being expensive, but I found the Raycore panels to be very affordable and extremely efficient. I would recommend them to anyone using an exposed beam style roof system.

[ragdump]

I have built 2 homes with structural insulated roof panels made by Raycore. SIPS have a reputation for being expensive, but I found the Raycore panels to be very affordable and extremely efficient. I would recommend them to anyone using an exposed beam style roof system.
Ragdump

I was wondering about what it does cost to do a roof with these panels ,what thickness did you use and what size was the roof,I've heard they were expensive also but what's expensive just some kind of an idea would help put it into perspective

[rgdula]

Ragdump,
I am building a 40x40 log home in N. Alabama. I got an estimate from www.sipsteamusa.com located in Bainbridge, GA. It was for a 5 1/2" thick panel with OSB on one side. Estimate was $6500.00 plus shipping. I also got an estimate from a company in Louisville, KY. They were around $8,000.

Bob

[gregory noland]

were in collinsville,ms , me and my wife would like to come see your progress gnoland@live.com

[WillandHelen]

I used Sips from sipsteamusa on my roof. If you order "nail base" which leaves the OSB off on one side it is cheaper. I used 5 1/2 inch thick. Worked great and went on QUICK. just count up number of 4x8 panels needed and get quotes. It will save you alot of time...just remember that.

[Brian Landry]

That sounds like a good price BUT. I noticed that you are in N. Alabama. That price is about what it would cost me for foam alone. I wonder what the R-Factor is that you are required to use. I have to use R-38 on my roof
Brian Landry

[WillandHelen]

They have foam thicknesses for any climate and R rating. The price will be higher for thicker foam, but just figure the number you need and get some quotes on that thickness. If you are building the house yourself, as I did, the money you save in getting your roof on quicker, and with less help, really made the decision for me. Plus, if you read about the SIP panels they are impressive for other reasons besides just ease of construction.

[rgdula]

You also have to take the thickness of the roof decking, (2x6 T&G), to get the total R-value. I'm not positive, but I think the R value for a cathedral ceiling in N. AL is R-22 to R-38.

[cabininpa]

Ragdump
If I were you I would contact a salesman at raycore.com to be sure, they were great to work with. I used a 5.5" thick R-42 for around $5.15 or $5.25 a sqft and needed over 6000 sqft. I found them to be pretty affordable and less expensive than sandwich panels and did not need a crane to get them on the roof. They also have a 7.25 R-52 ( not certain of the price). They even have a "Hybrid" system to use with trusses or I joist rafters that sounds interesting to me.

The big selling factor for me was the savings on my heating and cooling bills!!!

Oh, they also have a 3.5" thick R-26 panel for locations that do not need as much insulation.

[sammy]

I've checked their website as previously mentioned up this thread. <a href="http://www.raycore.com/">www.raycore.com</a>



These panels seem like the way to go. Great R-values and it would seem that you get a lower profile fascia.



Has anyone else used these or checked them out? Seen or experienced any problems?

[Timber]

is the 5 something a foot installed? not bad if they put it up ...i see they service Wyoming. problem with the sip is you have no exposed beams. correct?

[WillandHelen]

SIPS go above beams and decking, so beams and decking are exposed.

[panderson03]

is the 5 something a foot installed? not bad if they put it up ...i see they service Wyoming. problem with the sip is you have no exposed beams. correct?



we asked them for a quote on our 35x35 roof 6/12 roof. the quote they gave us was more than $15,000. NOT a very cost effective option for us. will have to find another way. too they said the quote not only didn't include putting them up but that WE would also be responsible for getting them off the truck!

[WillandHelen]

I would look at another company. My roof was about that size and I did my roof and whole house in panels for 12,000 delivered. Getting them off the truck is easy. Remember, on the roof you can do nail base (only one side osb) when you put down t&g decking. This makes them lighter and cheaper. A nail base 4x8 panel is not very heavy. Alot of people can handle one by themselves. You just get it on the roof, screw it down, great stuff the seams and put your felt paper down.

[fossten]

How do you do the wiring on the roof?

[WillandHelen]

You can route a channel in a beam and drill through the beam to poke your wires through. Or you can route the foam in the panels.

[Timber]

<a href="http://www.raycore.com/roof.html" title="http://www.raycore.com/roof.html">http://www.raycore.com/roof.html</a>


great looking product - i might get me a quote when i am at that part of my build...thanks for the link

[iffy]

It sounds like there is a confusion of terms here. A sip (structural insulated panel) has osb on both sides and has a structural rating. You do not need decking when you use a sip, as it is structural.
If it has osb on one side only, it is nailbase, and is not structural. You do have to use a deck with it.
Most sips com with wiring passages already in them. You just drill holes to intersect them.
I chose to use sips on my home. I had 9" log rafters on 4' centers. The sips I used were 8.25" thick total. They would actually span 8' but I didn't want my rafters on 8' centers. I also used jumbo sips. My house is 36' long so I used an 8' x 24' and an 8' x 20' sip end to end. This gave me a 4' overhang on each end.
Very tight, very well insulated roof. Had to use a crane to set them, but 1 day did it.

[cabininpa]

I have not been to the site for awhile and noticed your comments about pricing. That was so high I was shocked!! Kind of crazy but I called them with the spec's you listed and they gave me a regular price quote for $8736.00 for 52, R-42 roof panels and mentioned a sale price bringing it down to $8137.00. Way different than the price you mentioned. I think that is affordable! That is good news as I want to use them again on our next place.

[edkemper]

It's great to hear that prices have gone down. Thanks for the heads up.

[cabininpa]

That was not an installed price but they seemed to go on about as fast as decking and no crane needed. I believe Raycore needs exposed beams. First the beams, then T&amp;G then the panels then roofing. Their salesman told me they do many homes in Jackson/Pinedale WY area due to the extreme cold temps in the winter.
Good luck!

[cabininpa]

Route right into the panels and back fill with canned foam. Works great!

[tokala]

Hello, I am not doing a log home, although I did once, with my husband.. great structure. My current roof is failing. I have spoken to Raycore and they suggested perhaps a vented roof. 2 x 4's over panels and then osb decking above that to create an air space. Has anyone done that, what would be the advantages? I live in NC, where summers have gotten really blistering.

Thanks...Tokala

[R_Cullen]

Almost all roofing systems need ventilation. If there is no air space in your roof now then what Raycore suggested would be the easiest way to fix that, adding of course a Ridge Vent and some perforated soffit of some sort.

Advantages are that your roof will not fail. lol Moisture can build up underneath your roofing material through a variety of methods and what the air space does is allow air to carry that moisture away back outside. My roof was leaking like crazy awhile back and I discovered that I had no roof vents. All I did to fix it was punch a hole in the side of the roof(where the gable is) and voila! No more leaking!

EDIT: I should state before someone corrects me that I am refering to Northern climates. SIPS don't require ventilation in warmer climates, or areas that have mild winters. Though I would put them in anyway just to be sure ;)

[tokala]

Thank-you, for the sips roof answer. The current roof is vented, plywood was installed over insulation, with airspace, using too small of nails so it is buckling up. Our summer heat was very harsh this year. Our winters are not extreme, heat comfortably with my most excellent Woodstock Soap Stone wood stove. It is the best!! However summer temps stayed in the high 90's, most of the time with little night time cool down. I spent untold hours on line, looking into different companies and Raycore flet the best. Since the OSB will not be attached to the panel, should a problem arise, what ever piece of OSB, that had a problem could be replaced, without the whole panel being lost.

Any and all suggestions are appreciated, since I have never worked with this before. Have a great day!
Tokala

[Zetmandu]

I think I have ALMOST made the decision to go with the Raycore panels. I called and got a little more clarification from their sales rep because I was getitng confused with all the terminology. As I understand it, true SIPs from either raycore or most anyone else you do not need rafters for, as this is what the S is SIPs is for Structural. So while Raycore does in fact provide these too, its not what they push. Their big product is also a panel, yet not structural. Their panel is made up with, as looking at it from the top down, reflective foil, compressed injected insulation to the R value you need and another layer of foil. In between the foil layers there are 2x4's set either 16 or 24" on center and the insulation is injected between the 2x4s and once covered with the foil on both sides it becomes one 4x8 panel weighing about 60 lbs. This panel would then lay on top of the decking, which is on top of the rafters and then you can have the choice of nailing your own OSB to the top foil side of the panel and then covering with your chosen roofing material. The sales rep says the OSB is entirely optional and you dont not lose any integrity if you dont put that on top of the panel. He says it seems about 50-50 to who puts the OSB on vs not.

I still havent decided if Im going this route, but have to admit the attractiveness of a panel I can pretty easily lift up to my roof and just nail it down. One thing i forgot to mention earlier was how its nailed. Rep says you simply use 7-8" nails and nail it straight down thru the integrated 2x4 in the panel into your rafter.

The way I see it so far, my trade off cost would be not having to buy and install sleepers, 6mil vinyl, insulation, and OSB. So while Im sure I could buy all that, not sure how much savings I would have, the big trade off for me looks like time and PITA to install. My quote by the way, for the stock 30x30 with a 6/12 pitch was $5190.00.

Would love some thoughts on this subject

[Timberwolf]

I think I have ALMOST made the decision to go with the Raycore panels. I called and got a little ore clarification from their sales rep because I was getitng confused with all the terminology. As I understand it, true SIPs from either raycore or most anyone else you do not need rafters for, as this is what the S is SIPs is for Structural. So while Raycore does in fact provide these too, its now what they push. Their big product is also a panel, yet not structural. Their panel is made up with, as looking at it from the top down, reflective foil, compressed injected insulation to the R value you need and another layer of foil. In between the foil layers there are 2x4's set either 16 or 24" on center and the insulation is injected between the 2x4s and once covered with the foil on both sides it becomes one 4x8 panel weighing about 60 lbs. This panel would then lay on top of the decking, which is on top of the rafters and then you can have the choice of nailing your own OSB to the top foil side of the panel and then covering with your chosen roofing material. The sales rep says the OSB is entirely optional and you dont not lose any integrity if you dont put that on top of the panel. He says it seems about 50-50 to who puts the OSB on vs not.

I still havent decided if Im going this route, but have to admit the attractiveness of a panel I can pretty easily lift up to my roof and just nail it down. One thing i forgot to mention earlier was how its nailed. Rep says you simply use 7-8" nails and nail it straight down thru the integrated 2x4 in the panel into your rafter.

The way I see it so far, my trade off cost would be not having to buy and install sleepers, 6mil vinyl, insulation, and OSB. So while Im sure I could buy all that, not sure how much savings I would have, the big trade off for me looks like time and PITA to install. My quote by the way, for the stock 30x30 with a 6/12 pitch was $5190.00.

Would love some thoughts on this subject


Jebus! Cost me more than that for spray foam alone! If I could get that deal here, I'd be all over that in a heatbeat!

[Zetmandu]

Yea, Ill have to admit after reading all the posts here regarding cost of roof panels I didnt figure it would be within my budget, but this just might be close enough I can handle it. Of course the $5190, was if you buy it during the month of may, it was discounted 10% and Im no where near close enough for a roof, but he did say if I paid $1000.00 down I could still get the discounted pricing and then just let them know a few weeks before I needed them and they would have them ready for me

[LogSurfer2]

Yeah, I am pretty much sold on the SIP's too! I put in a call to Raycore last week, and have yet to connect with the salesman (playing phone tag). But I haven't taken the class yet, so I'm still a little fuzzy on the whole pitch info.....although my husband and I are talking about getting the 35x35 stock plans....so I did give him those dimensions....with about 5'-6' overhang....

But so far the pricing I'm seeing here seems to be a good investment for the time saved! All in all I'm impressed with the idea....anyone out there actually use it and how long have you had it???

Thanks!

[Zetmandu]

Yea, at this point, I think Im pretty much sold on the idea, but going to do a little more research first. I still have until the end of pay to pay my $1000.00 to hold the discount pricing for May. Even though Im a long tome out before I need to even think about a roof too much, he said the thousand bucks held the price for 4 months, but if at the end of 3 months I still didnt need them, then I could pay what was remaining to get up to 50% of my total price and that would lock in the same price until I needed them.

[spin05]

Yea, at this point, I think Im pretty much sold on the idea, but going to do a little more research first. I still have until the end of pay to pay my $1000.00 to hold the discount pricing for May. Even though Im a long tome out before I need to even think about a roof too much, he said the thousand bucks held the price for 4 months, but if at the end of 3 months I still didnt need them, then I could pay what was remaining to get up to 50% of my total price and that would lock in the same price until I needed them.


Just make your own...2 pieces of insulation sandwiched with a 1/2 ply board on top with 6 in screws every 12 inch or so......Thats what i did

[FishingAddict]

Just make your own...2 pieces of insulation sandwiched with a 1/2 ply board on top with 6 in screws every 12 inch or so......Thats what i did

Interesting - did you also use some minimal adhesive or justthe screws alone? This is an old thread so hope we all still around today! ;)

[rreidnauer]

It should be said that just sandwiching insulation between two screwed together pieces of plywood is an insulated panel, but definitely is not a STRUCTURAL insulated panel, if it is to be considered to be used as such. It all has to do with the shearing interaction characteristics of the materials used.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using TapaTalk 2

[FishingAddict]

It should be said that just sandwiching insulation between two screwed together pieces of plywood is an insulated panel, but definitely is not a STRUCTURAL insulated panel, if it is to be considered to be used as such. It all has to do with the shearing interaction characteristics of the materials used.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using TapaTalk 2

Understood and thanks for keeping us aware of same.
As far as insulation and a solution though it makes sense if I understand it correctly. I guess I have to get some prices figuring both as a SIP and as just insulation and decide if the additional cost justifies the whole shebang......how many here have used SIP's anyway?

[WNYcabinplannin]

We used em, love em.
10" thick was rated at r38, but I'm told they perform about R50!
Used Murus panels, got great price.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jcs3419]

I'm bumping this to the top so we can continue this great discussion.

[rckclmbr428]

I use them all the time, and actively try and talk people out of the built up roof system. I like them so much I got set up as a dealer with one of the manufacturers

[LogHomeFeverDan]

Can you use sips on the roof and still have the exposed beams?

[WNYcabinplannin]

Yes. Some people put tng down first.
They make sips with tng already on them but too much $$
I wanted dark beams but a painted ceiling. Just had to build up primer heavy.
Sips rule.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LogHomeFeverDan]

So conceptually, t & g on the underside, sips above then roof material attached to sip????

[BoFuller]

That's my plan.

[rckclmbr428]

You can get panels that are just insulation with osb bonded to one side, if you have the t&g down there is no need for a Structural Insulated Panel, just and insulated panel. they are cheaper and lighter.

[LogHomeFeverDan]

I've not seen them in pics but if you use an insulated panel, do you have soffet and fascia?

[rckclmbr428]

heres how we do it
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk122/rckclmbr428/Bedford%20Log%20Home/IMAG0734.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk122/rckclmbr428/Bedford%20Log%20Home/IMAG0739.jpg

[LogHomeFeverDan]

WOW Love it!!! Thanks for sharing pics Rckclmbr!!

[rckclmbr428]

never mind the giant mess on the ground, their usually not that messy, ha ha

[Log Al]

rckclmbr Do you use some kind of stiffener or framing built into the panel or do you just let the polystyrene compress with roof load?
Thanks

[rckclmbr428]

these are ESP panels, the Styrofoam doesn't compress. one of the beauties of this system is there is zero thermal bridging because there is no stringers at all, the panels are all butted together withe spray foam used to seal the joints. This is a great explanation of thermal bridging with pictures, scroll about halfway down. http://www.springtimehomes.com/green_building_science

[LogHomeFeverDan]

Interesting read rckclmbr. Btw, if it ain't messy you're not working!! (-; Thanks for the info!

[Log Al]

Thanks for time and info.rckclmbr That gives me a better idea.

[thoner7]

First post guys!

rckclmbr - why do you not stagger the joints of the panels? If they are structural I would think that would be important would it not?

Also, do long screws hold the panels in place well enough? I would think they would want to slide and shear. The styrofoam would have almost no intergrity agaisnt that, right?

[thoner7]

PS: Ttotally unrealted - but with the fee for the class, do you get a room at the hotel too? Or do you have to find your own lodging?

[panderson03]

gotta find your own travel and lodging, Thoner7. the price for the class is for the class only. welcome !

[LogHomeFeverDan]

I'm getting there a day early and leaving a day after, so I have no feeling of rushing to or from the class. Ended up with a stay at another hotel <within walking distance> for an excellent price. Shop around, there are some good deals.

[logguy]

these are ESP panels, the Styrofoam doesn't compress. one of the beauties of this system is there is zero thermal bridging because there is no stringers at all, the panels are all butted together withe spray foam used to seal the joints. This is a great explanation of thermal bridging with pictures, scroll about halfway down. http://www.springtimehomes.com/green_building_science

Ok--please explain your thinking if you are building an LHBA breathable cabin. LHBA chinking ensures purposely that the cabin will breath. Help!

[donjuedo]

It's good to have the log walls breathe, but SIP walls with siding covering them, and SIP's on the roof need not.

[dvb]

Loosing heat through the roof by thermal bridging is one situation and loosing heat through "breathing" is another. I did all that I could to eliminate heat loss through the roof.

[logguy]

Whoops--I forgot about getting you this info, PlumbLevel: http://www.thermocoremo.com

You should give them a call and get the $1 tour next time you set out for your build site. They are SE of Jeff City near the HWY 63 exit. Very interesting--countless possibilities. I didn't want to leave!