Need advice on purchasing property

[MonkeyGirl]

Greetings all,

I am in a bit of a delema. I have found 5 acres of land for sale that is 80% wooded and 20% cleared, it has a tiny (600sf) usable mobile home on it as well as a delapidated unusable one (although I'm thinking spare parts). It is in the area that I want to live and it costs less than what I would expect to pay (although it is in my price range whereas other properties are not). The catch, however is that the seller is keeping the mineral rights.

I have never bought a home or land before so all of this is alien and scary to me.

I am also not sure about what mineral rights entail and how much good they would be on a five acre lot.

on the other hand there is already a septic system and electricty and phones are already run to the poperty. And I would have someplace to stay while I build my cabin.

So I suppose the issue is really this, is not having the mineral rights worth passing up this property. I'm terrified of making a huge mistake with this.

Thanks in advance for helping a lost, confused soul,

Melissa

[Shark]

where in the country are you?
Depending on the area, it may be very important to have the mineral rights, as someone that owns them can come in & do some mining if they really wanted to.

[MonkeyGirl]

I am in central Arkansas. well south of the Fayetteville shale. as far as i know there is nothing worth anything in this area underground.

[StressMan79]

...'bout a man named Jed...

Black gold? Texas tea?

sorry, I had to.

[Dreamtoownahome]

Mineral rights?? There must be gold on that there property. Otherwise, the owner would'nt want the mineral rights. That's whats up!!!

[Runkyjan]

When we bought our land we were told that the mineral rights were split between the surviving heirs and that the oil/gas companies had come through years before and were not interested. At the time we thought "Okay, we just want the land to build on" so no big deal. After moving to Japan for the Navy we got a letter and several emails from a drilling company saying that they were going to drill for natural gas. Apparently when we bought the land they did not have the technology to go and get the gas/oil where it was, now they do. Now we have a gas well on our land but at least we have enough land so that it won't be in sight of where we plan on building. Do your homework before you buy as I would be suspcious of why they are holding onto mineral rights. In West Virginia they are passed down from generation to generation.

[rocklock]

If the place is really where you want to live, I would try to find out what mineral rights are worth. Then I would subtract the cost of the mineral rights and then offer 90% of the asking price...
Then see if they really want the rights...
OTW, I made two offers for my land - a cash price and another with interest...
Best of luck

[Timber]

I am guessing but willing to say there is nothing on that land. If you ever get mineral rights you should do as he is doing and keep them. Its just smart to-just in case. The people who told you they drilled for gas on there property forgot to mention they got compensated for that-or should of--it is there land. They cant come in and tear your place apart without paying for your land rights, and use of it! I come from grandparents who bought land in the 40's and paid a dollar an acre extra for mineral rights. That was on 2,560 acres 4 sections of 640. When they bought it -there was no hope of anything on there as far as I know. Well in the 70's the oil companies new oil was around the area--drilled all around the place--it was all on my grandparents land. My grandpa told me a story where the oil company offered him so much money to drill on a certain piece of his property and that was all they were going to give him. He told the man he said, "how many guys do you think will be working for you if I start shooting out those lights on your oil rig at night"? Then he said the man was all ears--lol. The oil man wanted to give him like $2,000 and my grandpa wanted $3-something. That is not for mineral rights-that was for the land use to drill. If what they do on your land--(its yours if you buy it) has to be compensated for or they cannot touch it. If they have to tear down your home--you can fight them for what you say is the value--cannot be over-inflated.
I would say jump on this property if you like it--get it. If you owned the mineral rights you would most likely not sell them. When we sold my grandparents land/WE DID NOT SELL THE MINERAL RIGHTS

[Kola]

Melissa,
How many pieces of land have you looked at so far?
Have you any others to compare with?
Are you set on buying land in that area or are you willling to relocate?
This is a great time to buy...and bargain. Many people who are selling are asking high but selling for much lower than their asking price.

Kola

[ChainsawGrandpa]

I wouldn't allow mineral, water, air (yes, that does exist), or timber, rights
be be separate from any property I bought. I would also never allow an
easement for road, power, water, cable TV, or any such thing. Do your
research. It might be worth it to you, but as for me I would never do it.

-Rick

[Latitude 30]

if you post your comment at "mineralrightsonline" someone who works in this industry will be able to suggest a direction to take. I wouldn't buy anything without the rights. Good luck.

[nobleknight]

Melissa,
I purchased my mineral rights for $25.00/acre. You may pay more or less depending on your minerals. Without your mineral rights, you own only 6 inches in the dirt, and 100 feet of air straight up. You can stay and build, but they may want you to move your house out of the 7th inch of dirt. These 'rights' were devised by crooks and criminals (lawyers). They are devised to enrich the holder. Get them back or do not purchase.

The man I purchased my rights from is filthy rich, and he knew more about me than I can even remember. In ten minutes, he recited my whole life to me. He wanted to make sure who I was, and he wanted me to know it as well. Do not underestimate this issue.

Tom
nobleknight
class 01-15-05

[Yuhjn]

In some places, mineral rights convey with all property sales. Other places they have already been removed from the property. Other places they sometimes convey and sometimes dont, depending on who's selling the property.

I certainly would say "always" or "never" with respect to this issue (or almost any issue for that matter, but then I'm also not an idealist, extremist, or fundamentalist).

I would take the issue very seriously, but it would probably not be a deal breaker for me, depending on the history of the area. I've owned property both with and without minerial rights. But I'll say this, if the land has already been divorced from the rights your ability to buy those rights is close to NIL since the seller wont have the rights and the owner of the rights has no reason to sell them to you since they are likely part of a massive minerial claim the have.

A lot depends on the place. The more people that live around you, and the more money they have, the less likely you are to ever have an issue.

In my opinion, saying "I'd never buy land without mineral rights attached" is a lot like saying "I'd never live in Kansas because of tornadoes, and I'd never live in Florida because of Hurricaines". If you live there, there is a chance you'll get burned. That's life. It's a managed risk you know about going into the deal. If you buy land without mineral rights can you be made to tear down your house? Yes you can. Will you? Probably not, but it's possible so factor that in.

Life is mostly shades of grey and mineral rights are very much a grey area in terms of their value and the danger of building a house without them.

[MonkeyGirl]

Greetings all,

Thanks to everyone for ya'lls comments and advice. I have decided to pass on the property. It turns out the person who owns the place has no idea if he has the mineral rights to it but if he does he has no intention of letting them go. It seems that it could turn into a rather nasty tug of war if anything is discovered on the land and I would rather not be in the middle of it. I prefer to go through life with as little drama as possible and looking into this situation it looks as if this is a very bad idea. It is a shame though, it's a georgous piece of land but not worth the politics (because that is what it all comes back to in the end isn't it?). In the meantime I will be keeping my eyes open for good deals and keep saving to take the class.

Cheers to all,

Melissa

[Timber]

This property has some great things going for it. Has a place you can live--has land you like-acres--has a price you like too. People get weird when they think they need to own the mineral rights. The guy who sells mineral rights--my grandpa paid $2560 dollars in the 40's Do you have any idea how much money that was back then? Alot! It was not until the 70's that it paid off! $2560 dollars AND 30 Years invested right in the 40's to the 70's could have made a million! Lets say my Grandpa did not shell out that money--ok oil companies say hey mister, oil is on your land and were gonna be drilling. Ok mister oil man ,your going to have to pay me for me to allow you to do that.
Do you think there is black gold in there? Yellow gold? If there was why is he selling the property? If you like this property buy it--plain and simple. They sell lots in town AND you dont own the mineral rights--people please. They have been brainwashed--1 sided. If said mineral rigts were available would you buy them? Why sell the minerals if they know something is there? Please follow your heart--you seem like you like it but have been listening to people who seem to think every piece of property should come with mineral rights. ASK these same repliers to this post if they owned property without owning the mineral rights!! I am asking??? Property now days almost goes without saying--no mineral rights--fact is government owns alot of it. My friend had a home and was asked if he wanted to buy the mineral rights--he asked me and I just laughed. Yea theres gold or oil and its right underneath your house--not. This is a city lot in down town Torrance CA. /'Crooks./ I said if there was oil under there they could slant drill it and get it anyways without you knowing it.
Read this link
http://acreage.gladwinrealestateagent.com/buyinglandbasics Northern Michigan Acreage - Buying Land Basics 101

[Timber]

This property has some great things going for it. Has a place you can live--has land you like-acres--has a price you like too. People get weird when they think they need to own the mineral rights. The guy who sells mineral rights--my grandpa paid $2560 dollars in the 40's Do you have any idea how much money that was back then? Alot! It was not until the 70's that it paid off! $2560 dollars AND 30 Years invested right in the 40's to the 70's could have made a million! Lets say my Grandpa did not shell out that money--ok oil companies say hey mister, oil is on your land and were gonna be drilling. Ok mister oil man ,your going to have to pay me for me to allow you to do that. Not only that It was years before the oil companies started payomg off--they cheat you--I could go on but wont.
Do you think there is black gold in there? Yellow gold? If there is then why is he selling the property? If you like this property, buy it--plain and simple. They sell lots in town AND you dont own the mineral rights--people please. They have been brainwashed--1 sided. If said mineral rigts were available would you buy them? Why sell the minerals if they know something is there? Please follow your heart--you seem like you like it but have been listening to people who seem to think every piece of property should come with mineral rights. ASK these same repliers to this post if they EVER owned property without owning the mineral rights!! I am asking??? Property now days almost goes without saying--no mineral rights--fact is government owns alot of it. My friend had a home and was asked if he wanted to buy the mineral rights--he asked me and I just laughed. Yea theres gold or oil and its right underneath your house--not. This is a city lot in down town Torrance CA. /'Crooks./ I said if there was oil under there they could slant drill it and get it anyways without you knowing it.
Read this link In the end its your choice--I bought 11.33 acres = no mineral rights--oh no oh no what am i gonna do now?-lol
http://acreage.gladwinrealestateagent.com/buyinglandbasics Northern Michigan Acreage - Buying Land Basics 101

[chadfortman]

Look, listen and learn
A man who works with his hands is a laborer,
A man who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman,
A man who works with his hands, his head and his heart is an artist.
St Francis of Assisi.

Melissa you can find out threw the court house who has the rights.
It might be on the deed there. My new land i been on for over 4 years dosent have the rights but my west va land did.
The only thing under this land is sand and more sand stone and under ground water streams.
When i bought this land i almost let it go becuse of no rights.
If i want to go after the rights i could find out but why its sand stone.
Dont let your land go over BS you can alway buy them later if your worried you got gold ore diamonds.
Then again i always rember the hank hill cartoon where they riped his whole yard apart for indian bones.
becuse he didnt have the right to stop them.
I say work him down on the property becuse of the no rights it work againest them.
seya

[Yuhjn]

I have decided to pass on the property. It turns out the person who owns the place has no idea if he has the mineral rights to it but if he does he has no intention of letting them go.

Sorry to hear that.

In the future you may find it more advantageous to you to research the ownership of the rights without talking to the seller (this is public information, as is when he bought it and how much he paid). In many cases they WILL have the rights and they will convey right along with the property, and the seller wont know the difference (I have a feeling this is actually your case). But if you bring the subject up with the seller, you risk informing them of what they will preceive as leverage against you in a negotiation.

I hope you didnt pass on the property just because of the mineral rights though. If you do some homework, you might still find you can come away with the property AND the mineral rights.

If it is the case that the vast majority of land in your area conveys the rights, you can expect this guy to do it... and if you press the issue hopefully he'll talk to his realtor or his laywer or someone who knows the facts and he'll figure out this isnt something he's going to get to keep.

If I were you I'd call some realtors who work in the area. Call enough of them until you find someone who really knows what's up and they will have all the answers about local mineral and land rights. You can also try to get a quick free consultation with a lawyer farmilliar with local realestate law.

[Timber]

This guy says he dont know? yea right--he could be ignorant, lol. When i bought my land i did not even ask--she told me. He probably knows-

An educated buyer will not want to buy a property without a warranty deed and title insurance.
Most title insurance companies will not insure a property that were bought at a tax sale unless
steps have been taken to have the title cleared.< THIS IS WHAT IS IMPORTANT!

[rreidnauer]

I was told by one WV realtor that there is no such thing as timber rights in the state.

Emmmmmm, yea . . . . . . .

[MonkeyGirl]

The biggest reason I'm not going to go for the property is the fact the seller is not going away, he is moving directly next door. And lets say this man is creepy at best and actually seems dangerous at worst. I wouldn't have much piece of mind about my home or pets when I'm away. The mineral rights are just the cap on top. He actually told me that since he thinks he has the mineral rights that I should expect him to come and check on "his" land. I think this guy is the reason this property hasn't sold yet, he's nuts!

I really do appreciate the comments about all of the mineral righs. I am sure they will come in very handy on my search as everyone here wants to maintain their mineral rights since they started drilling for natural gas. although more than likely mineral rights will not be a big deterrent if I find a great piece of property. The people living around however...

cheers to all,

Melissa

[chadfortman]

Look, listen and learn
A man who works with his hands is a laborer,
A man who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman,
A man who works with his hands, his head and his heart is an artist.
St Francis of Assisi.

Sounds like this guy thinks the sale of his land is a way to find a women ore something.
Yes first impressions are some times correct and this guys looking to get more then your money sounds to me.
I told my story of my nebor to warn everone there are nuts out there looking for trobble.
Some times nebors can be great and some times they can just be plain trobble.
Yes you did right to stay clear becuse it would got bad for you if you bought from this nut case.
There plenty of land out there keep looking good luck.

[rreidnauer]

He actually told me that since he thinks he has the mineral rights that I should expect him to come and check on "his" land. I think this guy is the reason this property hasn't sold yet, he's nuts!
Yea, that alone is plenty to immediately make me walk. He thinks he can come waltz onto your property like a landlord just because he has the mineral rights?!?! The guy sounds like he'd be a royal PITA the moment you'd try to break ground on any project. (including a driveway!!!)

See ya Bucko!!!

[Timber]

OFFER him a dollar an acre for the mineral rights- heck i would not want this wacco for a neighbor--his land even after he sells it. At least he gave you some warning signs before you became a squatter on his property...
My mineral rights we own might have coal on the land-lots of coal in WY. The oil has turned into methane gas and methane means coal usually. The thing is how much is there and is it worth a co. to go in there pay for the damage to property owner and pay us the mineral right owners. The oil co cheats the mineral rights owner by not pumping oil when the price goes sky high--they wait until its cheap then pump the heck out of it. Thats just one way they do it. Anyone see that movie There will be blood? It is about greed and a oil man and how he rips people off.