where to start

[Zigzag]

I guess I am not sure how to start my log house ... research would probably be a starting point but need to figure out what I can do.
My wife and I have pick out a house http://www.architecturaldesigns.com/house-plan-35017gh.asp
but with no garage. We did not buy the plans yet either. The company estimates it to cost $700 000 ... i don't think so! I live in Northen Nova Scotia with 7 acres of land ... and still nothing has been started.
Is there a set of 'building codes' for building log houses ... where?
We also want to butt and pass method, and trying to find info on that. We are hoping to build next year. how long can logs sit, if we get our logs we can debark them and mill them to size (we have a small mill ... for hire too). We were thinking of 8"log height, D style, butt and pass.
I got quoted for $3000/ truck load for logs ... Red Spruce ... will that work, cuz not much else around here ... well there is but price is very high.
Well sorry for the rambles ... just a bit frustrated. But open to answers and suggestions.

Thanks

Zack

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Hi Zack,

I remember having that same experience...frustrated from wanting
to do something but no information on how to start. You've found
a great resource of information, and people willing to help see your
dreams happen. Nova Scotia is a long way from the North West U.S.
but taking the class will quickly launch you in the right direction, and
save you a truck load of time and money.

The method we use will save you time (the logs can be used right after
the tree hits the ground) and save you money since the logs won't need
to be milled, which also adds greatly to the life span of the structure.

Check with your local building department for applicable codes. My guess
is that you might be under the IBC (International Building Code).

Please ask all the questions that come to mind...of course my guess is that
right now knowing what questions to ask might even be hard to do. Take a
look at some of the members log homes. They can range from rustic to
elegant, and one room cabins to log mansions.

As for the Red Spruce, well...wish I could get some of that! Way over here
in the Western U.S. that wood is rare, expensive, and considered to be the
very best guitar wood.

-Rick

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Had I been thinking I would have recommended you go to the top of this page and
click on "articles". A wealth of information there, but be careful not to read too many
articles. Every one of those articles is infected with log home fever virus. You may
get happy, then excited, and then even more frustrated. Also check out the student
log homes gallery.

-Rick

[Zigzag]

I don't know of any classes here in nova scotia, so any info or documentation would be greatly appriceated.

[Timberwolf]

Fellow Canucker!

I hear where you are coming from.

I've been where you are now, and my journey has taken me almost 10 years to get to where you are, so don't be discouraged. You have a lot of questions, and are just begining to find some answers.

They will come, patience and perseverence.

Read everything you can on this site. Then if you decided it's worth it, consider taking the class. I did...I'm from Eastern Ontario. It was worth it. The class will answer tonnes of questions.... and create a bunch of new ones. That's where membership has it's privledges. ;-) The forums are great, the community is fantastic.

Nobody here has any interest...except in helping you succeed.

Walk the path slow and steady. Learn as you go, it will come.

Ask more questions, people here want to answer.

Jason.

[StressMan79]

I think two things are worth saying again:



The class will answer tonnes of questions.... and create a bunch of new ones. That's where membership has it's privledges. ;-) The forums are great, the community is fantastic.

Nobody here has any interest...except in helping you succeed.


first the second: completely true, I would not worry about loaning anything to any one of these guys. Every single one is of the most outstanding character and wants nothing more than to help others succeed in their log home dreams (as well as completing their own).

now the first: besides being completey true, I kind of giggle when I see people spell words differently in Canada (tonnes=1.1tons), the UK (colour=color), etc... lol!

-Peter

[Zigzag]

I live in Malagash, NS. Northeastern.

[Zigzag]

I plan on using Red Spruce to build my home, just wondering if anyone knew of any pros and cons of the tree. Also I plan on using the butt and pass method to build and i know the logs can be green, and i am going to mill them a little bit ... for style, and we use the slabs and saw dust to heat our home ( win win ) I am not sure how much logs i need but thinking 3 - 4 truck loads, should i start buying my logs now or wait ... i wont be building until next year ... hopefully the banks will like me more by then. Its about 3000$ a load.

Zack

[Timberwolf]

I used to have the idea that I would mill logs for my log home.

Not any more. The only thing you'll see me mill now is dimensional lumber for rafters, floor joists, window bucks, etc.

I won't try to persuade you either way, but think about it... is a log that's been cut on all 4 sides still a log?

If you've ever milled lumber before, do you know how much work it is to mill all the logs required for a reasonable size home? Do you know how big a log has to be to get an 8x8? I think you mentioned D style, how's that going to work?

How big will your house be? If it's bigger than 16x16, than you will need a really big mill...or will you have to figure out a way to splice logs?

If you use green logs, and mill them... and use them to build a house... your house will shrink several inches... can you accomodate this?

How will you seal between the logs?

Hmm...

P.S, I'm not trying to be sarcastic...just realistic.

[Zigzag]

The logs i am getting are 12" and up in diameter, D style is going to be cutting 3 sides leaving a rounded log edge on the outside, and cutting the 2 square corners off on a 45 degree angle so the inner house part will 3 sided ...
______
/ )
/ )
| )
| )
| )
| )
\ )
\______ )
Something like that.

I know I have to splice logs together thought of using a square notch, cut top and a bottom out of a log then join them togethr and spike them.
the house will be about 54.5' X 47.5'
I thought permachink was used to seal between logs.

[StressMan79]

zigzag,

I will impart some of skips knowledge free of charge: "Build as SMALL as you can afford." Translation: only build what you need. Do you really need a 2600SF first floor? can you get by with a smaller footprint and a partial upstaris? Do you have 12 kids that need sleeping space? Keep in mind that your roof area grows even faster than floor area, and it is spendy. Also foundation gets more expensive. I have said this before, I have seen a slabbed home (not D, but parallel sides slabbed). It worked OK, but much wood was wasted (6" slabs), and he had to slab them all.

slabbing/notching are bad ideas for durability/maintenence reasons. Permachink can be used. The association uses mortar, it is cheaper and lasts for ever. Permachink also traps moisture between the logs, a very bad thing on a D-cut logs. I'd recommend the mortar.

Anyway, I would seriously rethink your priorities.

"these aren't the droids you are looking for"

-Peter

[Zigzag]

well its 6 bedrooms, and i know its huge, but we have 3 kids, and running 2 business out of it ... big is needed.

[chadfortman]

Look, listen and learn
Im Your Huckleberry!
Keep Rocking With Dokken!

Hey if you got money burning your pocket.
I think i would find others ways to spend it.
You could build that place yourself for less but being that big it might take some time.
i dont think i would want to heat it ore pay for the sq footage its gone to cost.
You could build a nice place your self out of a Butt and pass home.
Learn to build it your self dont wast the cash on a kit it will just be a pain in your butt the rest of your life.
This site is for people that dont want get riped off on kits. it a place you can design your own place for allot less.
Good luck on what ever you do.

[Zigzag]

I want to do it myself
We found a plan we like, never bought them yet ... but we don't have money to burn, we want to build it ourselves. I just want to make sure its done right. I want to do butt and pass and make sure this log house looks amazing, i know its gonna take time, sweat, blood and beer. I have a mill that never gets used, maybe 3hrs this year, and if i mill the wood everything that comes off it gets used, slabs and dust. So I have to find out how to do this.

[chadfortman]

Look, listen and learn
Im Your Huckleberry!
Keep Rocking With Dokken!

After you take the class i get rock the clubs engineer here to do your plans for you.
That will be some bad A** home when you build it.
I like the home on The Edge movie that a cool one.
Ok seya

[Timberwolf]

I doubt the banks will ever really like you.

I'm not trying to be mean or anything, just realistic. Unless things are drastically different in NS than they are in the rest of Canada (and with the possiblity of a recession in the near future, it's doubtful they'll stay that way) banks will not loan you money for this type of venture. You will have to buy all your logs out of pocket, mill them and have them ready (hmmm... storage might be a problem) to go. You will have to pay cash for the foundation, and build the shell to dry in stage before they will give you a dime.

Things are somewhat different if you use a builder (but then your house will cost $700,000 again).

If you really want a big house, that's not expensive...and you take the class (bring your spouse..that's another tip) you get to sit in the LHBA founder's house.. it's approx 7000 sqft and sure as hell didn't cost 700K.

Jason.

[Basil]

If you have your own saw mill, another option would be to slab all four sides off and do a square "log" home. These are easier to build than round logs, durability is more of an issue but as always overhangs are the key. I've got friends here in Kentucky that buy farms with standing timber, pay someone to log it, pay a mobile sawmill to come and cut each log into equal sided timbers, stack them and have their walls up in just a few days. It's not my preference but it is much faster than anything I've seen and frankly looks ok. It costs a lot more to have the logs milled, but if you own your own mill it takes a lot of the difficulty that is associated with round logs out.

[Zigzag]

My wife and I would love to take the class, we thought when i get back from out west this winter we may fly west to a class. Its hard for us to get away. But we are going to try. Or ... bunch of you guys come east and put on a class for us and you can see the beautiful maritimes.
Foundation may be a cash job, my friend said he'll lend me his forms, and help me put them up and i have to pay for some labour and the concrete.

Zack

[Shark]

Right now, classes are only held out west in the log home.

If you want to build one yourself though, it's highly recommended to find time & make it out for one. You will save 10x more than you spend having to travel out there for a weekend.

[2 cents]

zigzag sez:

I want to do it myself
We found a plan we like, never bought them yet ... but we don't have money to burn, we want to build it ourselves. I just want to make sure its done right. I want to do butt and pass and make sure this log house looks amazing, i know its gonna take time, sweat, blood and beer. I have a mill that never gets used, maybe 3hrs this year, and if i mill the wood everything that comes off it gets used, slabs and dust. So I have to find out how to do this.

2 cents sez:
hey there zigzag, welcome to the forums!
you have a great DIY attitude, and in that way i think you fit right in here. i wanted to let you know that no one is holding back on you here with info about how to mill D logs or anything... it's just that nobody here really does it. for many good reasons we're all into using whole, unmilled logs for our buildings.
the other mantras repeated around here are "keep it simple" and "build as small as you can afford" instead of as big as you can afford (although admittedly i'm one of the ones planning on a house that is on the bigger side, so i have a soft spot for you there-- i understand wanting to have room for kids).
i have a feeling you may already have your mind set on the milled D logs and are convinced that that is the best idea and are ready to go for it based on that. you probably have done a lot of research up to this point. i had been looking at the Enertia home kit, and i still love their concept.... but DANG the kit was expensive (to me) even if i built if with my own hands. but i was determined to find a way to afford that kit and then save by building it myself. i'm always the one who looks at something (well maybe not a car... but say, log furniture or something) and says, pshhh-- i could make that myself, i don't need to pay nobody's puffed up price tag. anyway at some point i came across a book titled "build your own log house for $15,000 (written in the 90's), and that made me start thinking about homebuilding in a different way. then i stumbled across this site here.....
anyway i would say it's definitely worth it to open your mind even wider one more time, and take this class everyone keeps mentioning.... i guess it's all too much to try to explain in a forum. it's good info about everything related to building a log home, but most importantly the info comes from people who are not trying to sell you a log home, and you would not believe how important that little point is. especially if you don't have money to burn.

2 cents

ps-- you can use your mill to make rafters & such.... definitely not a wasted investment there...

[spiralsands]

My sister has a log home with D logs and the place is rotting from the corners on in. She had to cut out for a big window so to give herself a few unrotted logs sections to repair the rotted log sections.

Frances

[Zigzag]

Ok, there was a comment about D style logs rotting ... was it cuz they were D style or just a build problem, would another type have started to rot in the same place? Reason for D style was to make it easy for stacking and wanted to have 'somewhat' flat interior walls with some dimension. Milling the wood down would also give me boards and stuff for using for other places in the house. We thought having flat sides to stack on would be a bit easier than stacking round logs. We are hoping to make a class next year if money and time permits.

Zack

[chadfortman]

Look, listen and learn
Im Your Huckleberry!
Keep Rocking With Dokken!

The D log homes are built incorrect all kits are large pretty human traps.
First they get you buy it then you got problems with the rest your life.
i told somenone i was building a log home and he said hes got one.
He said he got rotten logs. i said Sir i am not building a kit and mine will not rot it will last for many years.

I think those logs can be cut out and replaced.
But if they got electric wires in the logs i just light a math and call in a day.
What did your sister pay for that mess.
Didnt she hire a inspector to look it over before she made the leap to buy it
Frances when you build your place i think she gone be jelious of you.
My be she will turn around and want build one like you.
Seya

[2 cents]

hey zack,

it's not that they are D logs that makes them more prone to rot, it's just the fact that they are milled at all. milling sorta makes it a giant dowel and not really a log anymore. if you simply remove the bark, and don't cut into the rings of the wood by milling it, the "whole" log will stand up much better to the elements than any milled or notched log. that is the simplified answer, and there is more to it than that, but you will learn it all in class. glad to hear you are up for it!

2 cents

[Zigzag]

Ok, makes sense, glad i got to learn something. Although on the other side of things ... wood can be treated ... for a price. whole logs may be an option when the times come, its something we will think about for sure. I am hoping to get a few logs this weekend when i go cut fire wood and try a few things.

Zack

[Timberwolf]

I'm really trying not to.

On the subject of log treatments, there is nothing you can really put on a milled log that will protect it for very long, unless it's something really toxic (do you really want to live in a toxic house?). However, if you build a house properly out of whole logs, it will outlast your grandchildren's grandchildren, without putting anything on it.

BTW, I love the Maritimes.

Jason.

[Zigzag]

you big meany ... jk.
I appreciate all the help i can get. Advice is advice, it just makes me do more research. Speaking of research i found this stuff http://www.valhalco.com/ thought it might be an option, i know my neighbour used it on his house and seems too work ... for now.
well off to more research.

[Timberwolf]

you big meany ... jk.
I appreciate all the help i can get. Advice is advice, it just makes me do more research. Speaking of research i found this stuff http://www.valhalco.com/ thought it might be an option, i know my neighbour used it on his house and seems too work ... for now.
well off to more research.


That's why I love the maritimes, the people there are just great!

I've heard really good things about that stuff.

Looks good, you can have any colour you want, as long as it's grey. ;-)

In a whole log house, the wood will eventually turn that colour and protect itself.

J.

[Zigzag]

Logs around here should be protected somehow, i have talked with many loghome owners and being right next to the ocean, the salt can be nasty on wood ... and my motorbike!. Treatment will probably be something i will have to do unless i got cedar, but for the price of that ... well lets not go there, it has to be imported, or i could buy a KIT and that is what they use ... but don't want to buy a kit ... lol hence i am here.

Also i want to let people in on a trick I have learned in the woods and from various other people who have worked in the woods for years. If you are felling your own trees, once they are down and you delimb them ... LEAVE the top of the tree alone, the part where is usally tappers off to the top, if you leave it and leave your tree there for a little while, few days or weeks depending on weather, the top of the tree will suck the moisture out and help dry out your log and it will help with less checking in the wood.

Zack

[Klapton]

The other thing that makes D-logs and other "chinkless" designs more prone to rot is having Wood on Wood. Anytime you have wood against wood, no matter how tight the joint is, capillary action draws water into the cracks. The obvious solution would be to seal them, right? Well, the problem there is that when one tries to seal moisture OUT, they end up sealing moisture IN. You really can't stop water from finding its way into cracks like that. That's how mountains get torn down -- water gets into the cracks and freezes, causing big rocks and boulders to splinter off. Trying to keep water out of cracks and crevices is like trying to catch air in your hands. Mother Nature just won't let you do it most of the time.

With the butt and pass method tought by LHBA, there is space between the logs. This gets stuffed with insulation and covered with mortar. Mortar is breathable, and allows any moisture that gets between the logs to evaporate and escape over time. This, combined with not cutting into the grain, long "overdangles" on the corners and large roof overhangs, mitigates the amount of water that gets on and between your logs, making the structure MUCH more durable and rot-resistant.

Treating your logs is still an additional option using LHBA techniques. And it sounds like you live near the seashore, and will likely get storms with lots of "sideways" rain etc... Yeah, I'd treat them too just to be safe.

Regarding interior walls and flatness... I understand how milled logs make life easier for doing things like haning picutres etc. But bear in mind that when building Butt and Pass with whole logs, you plumb the INSIDE of the logs as you stack them. So, while there will be some irregularity in the interior wall, you CAN do things like hang cabinets and pictures on them without much trouble. We plan on actually framing our kitchen walls against the log walls to make cabinet installation, running plumbing and electircal easier, and because Donna wants a smooth, impervious (i.e. srubbable and cleanable) backsplash. IMHO, this minor inconvenience is a small price to pay vs. having a milled log home that is WAY more likely to rot.