Timberframing

[WillandHelen]

For those who cannot find logs, or are timid to erect a log home timberframing is an interesting alternative. While most of the industry is geared toward the high end market there are a few companies that will sell a frame for about $12 s.f. If you have a frame erected then the hard part is done and an inexperienced individual can install the panels that encase the frame and finish out the inside. No inside walls are load bearing so you can build freely. I'm considering this option because 80-100 logs can often be as expensive as the frame. And having someone come erect a frame for a few thousand more will insure that the whole project is straight and true. Once the frame is up and the roof is on the project can go as slow as it needs to.

Will

[kyle]

Will,

I have considered timber framing in the past. What companies have you found that will sell you framing at $12 sf???

[WillandHelen]

I'm looking at Cowee mountain right now. They are out of N.C. go to timberframesales.com.

Also there is Goshen...timberframemag.com

If you register on the timber frame association website and tell them what you are looking for then they will give your mailing address to a ton of companies and you will get alot of great info.

good luck,

Will

[WillandHelen]

oh yeah,

up in your area vermontframes.com looks like a good value.

[kyle]

I've gotten plenty of literature from numerous companies over the past few years. There is a lot more that goes into a timber frame home after the frame is up. The walls(SIP's) tend to cost a lot. Realistically I can't see one being built less than $80-90 square ft and that would be bare bones. Most timber frames usually run around $125-$150 sq ft all said and done.

[WillandHelen]

You can get a 2000 sf frame raised for around 35k. About 25k in panels. (roughly the cost of the frame in panels) Everything else is pretty standard work. If you want to sub out all the work I'm sure you can spend another 200k, or you could use alot of the class info to save a ton.

Will

[westietoe]

a friend of mine just built a timber frame house for his in-laws. he is a timberframer and built the house from scratch. i saw it go up and know that there is a lot of carpentry and fabrication work that goes into the frame on the job site as it is going up. kit frames have similar problems to kit homes. just think about who is making the money, it isn't you or i, it is the kit company and their products are cheaply made. timberframing is a time-tested craft done in many cultures for over thousands of years, built by craftsmen that spent their whole lives learning this craft, passed down from generation to generation. if you are seriously considering a timberframe, find a local craftsman that has built timberframes, or learn how yourself. your final product will be 1000 times better than a kit house. a good resource to start with is going to:
www.tfguild.org
that is the website for the timber framers guild, which is dedicated to the true craft of timberframing.

[vtbuilder]

"Their whole lives" might be a bit grandiose.

What I *have* noticed about timber framing is that a magnified sense of self-involved grandiosity seems to be part of the trade. The first book I picked up was by Tedd Benson "The Timber-Frame Home". Talk about overblown grandeur. The guy considers himself the Norm Abrams of Timber Framing. The two of them can't praise each other enough.

For example, on pages 52 and 53, Benson shows examples of different homes he's built . He doesn't reveal who he built the homes for except for one: Norm Abrams. He just couldn't help name-dropping.

He yammers on, indirectly, about how skilled a builder he is without really providing any of the necessary information on how to build anything. Fortunately, good books are out there. Try "A Timber Framer's Workshop" by Steve Chappell. It's not rocket science, though every book out there covers their butts by saying any 'self-designed' timber frame should be reviewed by a "real" engineer, implying that ultimately, you will never be as competent as you should be (or they are), yadda, yadda...

Remember, in the old days, there weren't any good books on timber framing and, in the *really* old days, plenty of carpenters couldn't read anyway. So... yes, it took years of apprenticeship to learn the trade.

Nowadays, all you need is common sense carpentry, an ability to read and a good cacluator. Don't be intimidated. The world is divided into dumb people and dumb people who read smart books. 8)

Patrick

[WillandHelen]

The thing that is appealing to me about a timber frame home is that after the foundation is done and the frame is ordered and cut in the shop (wherever that is) you just have it delivered and put up by those who cut it in a few days. Then the panels can also be cut in a shop and delivered to be put on in a matter of days. The problem with being an owner-builder ,I have learned first hand, is coordination. This isn't always your fault either. The contractors generally don't have as much time for you and they are the most unreliable and lying bunch I have ever known. By having your house "dried in" in a matter of a few days and with coordination from only a coupe of contractors your house is less likely to lay half finished getting rained on for months. Then as an owner builder you have the luxury (necessity) to wait on people who said they would be there last week and things of that nature.

[vtbuilder]

Yeah... contractors... what a bunch of scmucks...

"Hey", he says, "wait a minute. *I'm* a contractor! Humph," he says, "Customers... all they do is whine, whine, whine..." :wink:

Anyway... if you can afford it, that's the way to go. Have them assemble your timber frame on the spot and have them put on the panels the next day. Of course, you can get the same service if you want a custom built log cabin (not a kit) and some of them are very nice. There seems to be a business for just about any kind of building or building method.

I'd love to build a strawbail house, personally, but in Vermont, at least, everyone is horrified by the idea.

Patrick

[WillandHelen]

I am going out to the timberframe shop in North Carolina in a couple of weeks. I am pretty excited. I have looked at a bunch of companies and this is my favorite. Now I'll have to really look at the cost and see if I will still prefer it over my own log home.

[WillandHelen]

My wife and I just got back from Franklin, NC. There are 4 timberframing companies right there. If you have any interest this is the place to go in the Southeast. They all will let you tour the factories.

Jeff Johnson
Goshen
Cowee Mountain
Cabin Creek

[WillandHelen]

I am finishing up my timberframe house now. Just working on pluming and drywall. What a long and crazy ride it has been that started in 2004. In the end I will finish the house for 60-70 dollars a square foot and it will be the type of house that would take 200 a sq ft to have built. Easy money? Hardly...but I have few regrets. I love timberframing now but would also love to try my hand at the log cabin as well.

[dvb]

Where are your pictures?? We need all kinds of eye candy!! Man cannot live on logs alone!

[Shark]

Yep, thanks for the update, congrats on the home building, but where are the pictures!?>?!?! :)

[WillandHelen]

Here are some pictures from the carving of timbers to the raising. This was in June. Since then alot has happened I'll update soon.

http://picasaweb.google.com/jeanniebell/Timberframe#

[greenthumb]

Wow that is really cool! Thanks for the update and the pictures, I'd love to see more!

Anybody heard from vtbuilder lately?

[frederick]

I have been in one of the homes that Ted Benson built. It was a beautiful home.
But I do agree with Patrick, he does think that we are mere amatures, and he is the all knowing one when it comes to timber frame homes.
Anyone with the ability to plan and do their homework can build a nice home. It was done all the time many years ago.

[WillandHelen]

I had to learn alot in order to be able to timberframe like the pros. I have a brackground in Structural Engineering and CAD design. Still I read all the books and took an apprenticeship. After I got the technique down I absolutely loved working with timbers and the design. I believe it is not something that takes decades of experience to master, but definitely not something that could be equated to stick building or log style house building. It is definitely a refined skill set. If anybody is interested in doing a frame, or just seeing mine please come on by. I'm just 5 miles off I-65 in North Alabama.

[10acresATV]

Hi Will,

Where did your pegs come from? Also, I was wondering where you took your aprenticeship?

Cheers,
Greg

[lisaandmark]

Our home is basically Skip's concept combined with timber-framing with whole logs. Much easier than all the complex joinery, etc. that goes into timber-framing done with beams. House hasn't budged or settled an inch. If you took the class, there is no need to have "someone" erect the frame for you. Just get some logs and erect away! In fact, we are thinking about doing another with just framing in using logs ourselves as we have access to lots of logs, but they are shorter than would make for a whole butt and pass house. Much cheaper than hiring someone to do it the regular way.
--
lisa

[rgdula]

I would love to see your place. Where are you located? I am building on Keel Mountain in Gurly, AL. (256-508-5633) robert.h.gdula@us.army.mil

[JayRae]

That sounds very interesting! Skip's concept combined with whole log timber-framing? Do you have any pictures? I am curious to see what a home of this type looks like and the methods involved. FYI, my wife and I are taking the Feb '09 class and we surely still have more learning to do.


JP
Minnesota

[WillandHelen]

We are moved in now and the house is great. I am just finishing up the trim. I will try and get the finished product pictures up soon.

[WillandHelen]

2649

Ok, Five Years Later... A picture of the house

[panderson03]

wow. beautiful work, willandhelen!!!

[Mosseyme]

Very nice, but that was just a tease!

[stamic55]

I like that.

[WillandHelen]

Very nice, but that was just a tease!

27692770

Here are a couple more of great room and loft. Need to find a few of bedrooms etc.

[jcs3419]

That is exactly what I want to build next! What type of joinery did you use?

[bmurphy96]

Hey everyone. Been a while since I have been by..I'm curious in what you haven been up too there willandhelen. We took the class a while ago, built a log home, then I built a 16x24 foot shed using what I call "post and beam". It's not timber framing as we didn't use pegs and joinery but used connector plates and lag screws. Our posts where eight by eights and our beams where six by eights. Went up pretty fast..just over a week of actual work time. Board and batten outside and trusses with a metal roof. Simple, and while not nearly as elegant as true post and beam it's quite nice.

The book that gave me the inspiration for this project was Rob Roy's "Timber framing for the Rest of Us". I have (and have read) a couple of Benson's books as well as some by Sobell. I love the timber framing craft, but I didn't have the time to learn the skills to do it. Rob's method is certainly simpler. I think if you took your time and dressed a post and beam home up a bit it could look very nice. I would think quite honestly that Rob Roy and Skip would have gotten along very well.

So...willandhelen or others who have experience with this. I have a couple of questions. One of the problems I had was that our timbers tended to bow a bit. A few had some twist to them as well. We worked some of it out (crown side up helps :) ) but it just wasn't as clean and neat as I would have liked. Kinda like the logs in my house ;) How did you handle imperfections in your timbers? Just experience? A better sawyer than I had ?? Have extra timbers and then pick and choose?

I'm planning on building a larger workshop this fall on some property we have in E. Tenn. So I'm trying to figure this out a bit more and make it better. This one will have SIP panels. Planing on using either Eastern Red Cedar milled on site or having some Eastern White Pine hauled in.


Keith

[edkemper]

Keith,

I might offer this help. Whatever you use for your build, make sure the lumber is dried properly (Doesn't have to be kiln dried) and dry when you use it. That will help with bending and twisting. Also understanding how logs should be cut to reduce the bending and twisting by properly milling the logs is a must.

I'm learning as I go on milling logs and making lumber and have seen what fresh cut lumber can do.

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hey Keith,

Wow...Milton!!!

I grew up in my younger years in Baghdad on the "Black Water."

Sounds like a nice little project...Rob is a friend of mine and we tease him about that book sometimes...but it has served many well...Being a Timberwright...I hope you try someday...I think you will like it...I think Rob and Skip knew each other from years back...



"...I have a couple of questions. One of the problems I had was that our timbers tended to bow a bit...."

That can (and does) happen...Seasoning (which many recommend??) is not the answer.. as tradtional timber frames (and log archtiecture) are not actually built with "season wood" for the most part...Nobody has (or had) the time to wait decades for them to completely dry...especially in the dominate "folk class" modalities, whether Asian, European or African/Middle Eastern...

Understanding wood movement, and species/type selection for your cants or bolts is the key and that comes with experience in the traditional methods...So...One must learn or ask those that have done this for a long time...


"...How did you handle imperfections in your timbers? Just experience? A better sawyer than I had ?? Have extra timbers and then pick and choose?"

Imperfections (very common) are best handled with "layout method." I stopped using "edge rule" decades ago and started using the much older (millenia old) "line layout" and/or "scribe methods" to fit logs (bolts) and/or timbers (cants) together...

We have several saw mills at our use and yes a good Sawyer is priceless...For that reason we do it ourselves and/or work with those we trust...I have about 30,000 bf being sawed now by Amish Sawyers I work with in New York...

Let me know if I can help further...

Regards,

j