scared to death

[boxrkisses]

ok just a little about us.....Married straight out of high school went on to college. Married 22 years with two boys ages 16 & 20. My husband is in the semiconductor business as a master glass blower. He has been laid off 2 different times with us almost loosing everything time before last. He has just been laid off again but this time saw it coming and thankfully had another job lined up. We currently live in Dallas Texas but moving to Austin. He will be moving there next Monday as I will stay here and let the 16 year old finish school here. We are trying to find the smartest way to buy land and build a house on it in Austin. Hopefully that does not require the kind of house payments that we have made in the past, just in case we get caught off guard again. We truely need about 2400 sqft for our family along with 3 large inside dogs. What I am reading on here sounds great but......... neither of us have ever build anything. I am not sure if we can tackle something like this and know how. Plus, does it really save that much money? Here in Texas how in the world would we get the logs and river stone? We are seriously thinking of taking this class mentioned on here. Can anyone give us good advise on what the best way to figure all this out is?
Thanks,
Gina :?

[lmoore]

Oh Gina! I know what it's like to be in your position! My husband left me with a mortgage, 17 credit cards, a 2 yrs old and a flooded basement! I was scared to death! My name is Lori, I'm a 30 year old woman, who managed, with grace of God! If I can stand on a bucket in a flooded basement (so I would not electricute myself) and change out a floater switch on a sump pump to drain my own basement (with only a book, on how to replace it) girl, I'm pretty sure I build my own log cabin! Because of my financial situation....reluctantly...i had to learn how to cut pipes, change out a toilet, clean my own gutters, cut my own logs for firewood in the winter (in MI which gets cold) and the whole time, I had no idea what I was doing! But one thing I do know, is I CAN build my own log home! You see, I became a different person, when I learned how to fend for myself! And it was a lot easier, then I ever thought it was going to be. And you've got help! Kids to help and a husband, you've got one up on me! I hope to see you at Skips class! But as far as logs, and other stuff, I will let the others tell you about that! My house plans, which I have drawn up myself are for 2200 sq ft house. And aaaa what do you think is cheaper, a mortgage, or no mortgage :D

[boxrkisses]

I just can not BELIEVE with no house payment. Please please tell me how this can be true. You and others must have a large amount of cash on hand. We now have nothing. Especially after seeing what we owe in taxes this year because of having to use retirement to live on for 2 years. We do have a house to sell, but I still need a place to live while my son finishes high school his last 2 years. We are putting the house up for sale and will live in an apartment , but who knows when it will sale. Thanks for the encouragement. I just must believe this is all doable.
Gina

[lmoore]

Well, what can I say! First of all! I do not have any cash sweetie, much less large amounts, but I am lucky enough to be able to dip into my 401k to purchase my land, which isn't much, 17000. However, you can search this site for member who are located in texas that might be able to help you, I know we have some members who live in texas! Oh and my friend GammaRae, purchased his acre for about 200 a month, owner financed, we've talked in "taking skips class" forum, please read it! It's informative. We also have links here on how a woman built her own log cabin on 12,000 a year income. Please read it! I'm not saying that you will not work hard, but I am saying, that I believe it's worth it! I have not taken skips class yet, but I know where my heart is. Skips class will tell you step by step how to build your own log home! So if you build it yourself, who do you owe? I'll talk later, have to get back to the 2 yr old :o)

[kyle]

Gina,

There are a lot of financial variables that go into the LHBA process of building. I would say the biggest recommendation is to pay as you go. Yes, it might take you several years to finish a log home, but when it is done there is no mortgage payment. Some might take a construction loan while others are fortunate enough to have cash to build relatively quickly. But no matter how the project is financed a lot depends on how "fancy" of a home do you want. Example: do you want to spend 10k on a new kitchen or can you live with free cupboards that were taken out of a renovation project. Can you get by with a free cast iron tub from a classified add or do you have to spend $2k for a whirlpool tub and shower???

Class teaches how to build a log home, but also stresses about debt free living. Do you need a $25k car or can you get by with one for $3k?!

Not everyone is in the position to buy land or begin building right away but they can set that goal and start working toward it.

Best wishes to you and your family during this difficult time.

[Susan]

boxrkisses,
Kudos to you!

Let me first say that I have not attended LHBA's classes but I have been lurking here for a while. Not necessarily because I feel that I need instruction on log home building but mostly because I admire the philosophy that LHBA encourages of living debt-free.

You may want to check out some other forums to 'network' with others who have made the move to living frugally. http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/vb/ has several forums that you may want to look at.

Congrats on deciding that you need to reduce your debt!! I hope everything works out well for you and your family

[hawkiye]

it is doable but it takes some rearranging of things and some sacrafice. The bottom line is are you willing to make some temporary sacrifices in lifestyle to be debt free and live in a beautiful log home?

Kyle and others gave some good advice. Some folks sell all and buy property and put temporary living quarters like a mobile home or build a small place on the property and live there while they build to cut expenses.

Myself I would gladly sacrifice a few years of creature comforts to not have a 30 year mortgage and a beautiful mortgage free log home.

There is a learning curve if you have no construction experience some folks spend a few years collecting tools and materials before they start this gives you time to find the deals and freebies on materials etc. and in that time you might be able to help on some others places to get some experience.

You have already started by selling and moving into an apartment to save. You have to think outside the box to realize it can be done.

Blayne

[lmoore]

Yes, Blayne, Kyle....I have missed the obvious! Gina....this is how I'm going to do it. After buying the property. I will build a small (very small) cabin on it for me & my son and mother and we will live in it until the house is complete. We will not have have a lot of luxuries like running water or in house toilet, but it's worth it to me. The really good news is, by roughing it for a few years, I will be debt free forever! By living on the property, I no longer have rent ($1000) a month and i no longer have daycare ($1000) a month expenses, when my mother gets here. I will use the extra funds from this savings to build my log home in a frugal way. Yes, I have grown accustome to the indoor jacuzi and the 10X10 screen in patio for my son to play in, but I do not want to be bogged down to my current job, sometimes I work 7 days a week (to make the bills) 6 months straight....and it really takes away from my son, myself, my life. So the log home is my way to a better life, even if it takes 5 years or more to complete. Good luck to Gina, my prayers are with you.


Lori

[GammaRae]

And heck, even after you get it finished (i.e. get your CO, certificate of occupancy), you CAN end up putting the jacuzzi in, in time. We will. You've got a good plan - just stick with it, Lori.

[hawkiye]

Lori,

Thats really roughing it ;)

I don't think running water and an indoor toilet have to be sacrficed to accomplish this. A camp trailor can provide that while you get the cottage up even if you have to haul water for a while. But plan for that in the cottage too. Even in meager accomodations a hot shower and warm bathroom can do wonders for ones morale especially in winter.:)


You'll need running water for the loghome so plan for that as one of your early projects.

Blayne

[GammaRae]

I'll have to agree with Blayne. Getting running water and deciding on a septic, sewer connection, composting or incinerator toilet will be the first projects on the land you will want to acheive. I can see you going for JUST a little while without these, but if you plan on building they SHOULD be your first steps. In fact, it may even be required.

And about that "tent"... We will begin construction on our "tent" (yurt) next week and we don't even have a piece of land yet. The are meant to be portable, but very comfortably liveable year round. For the size we will make the yurt manufacturers want to charge anything from $7000-17,000 before shipping. We estimate we should easily be able to construct ours (before the deck) between $2500 and $3000 - and it will be ridiculously easy to construct.

Also, after you take the class, you will be let into the members area where you will see the LHBA Members' secret weapon(s) for getting free appliances, cabinets, plumbing etc. (yes, I said FREE) for your temporary living situation and the availability of those items in the greater Seattle area is overwhelming. You'll soon be an addict and mumble to yourself in your sleep, "If only I had storage. If only I had storage."

In the same spirit as Blayne, don't short change your temporary living situation.

[GammaRae]

by the way, I have to clarify the following (I just noticed it up a ways):


Oh and my friend GammaRae, purchased his acre for about 200 a month, owner financed, we've talked in "taking skips class" forum

That wasn't me - I believe that was Blayne in Idaho.

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Looks like a lot of us are in the same boat. The good news
is that we all have the association in common. Great for
sharing ideas of what to and not to do.

I've been married 23 years. We have a 20 and 16 year old.
Been at my job just short of 24 years. The Mayor has been
threatening to do away with our positions. Well, the other
night it was on the front page of the paper. Don't know how
long I have left but we have started our log home (just started)
and we now have a house to finish remodeling and sell, some
small projects that must be finished, and a house, garage (the
snow gets deep here and parking inside isn't a luxury)) and a
shop to build before the axe falls.

I'm a little concerned but not worried. Just working hard and
fast to get the work done in time.

I took a Larry Burkett course after the baby was born (20 years
ago) and it really helped to turn us around financially. If you can
find out where a class is being given I would highly recommend
going.

I know a guy who is flat broke (he had to borrow gas money to
get to work)...he makes about $65,000 a year. I also know a guy
(Leonard H.) who makes less than $1,000 a month. Leonard ownes
his home and lives like a king. It's not what you make, it's what you
keep. I need to take lessons from Leonard.

I guess what I'm trying to say is lean on your fellow members for
sound building advice, and encouragement. Keep working at your
log home, and don't give up hope.

-Rick

[Susan]

Before you buy land........

We just found out that we will not be 'allowed' by our county to camp on our land while we build (10 acres ajoining a national forest where camping is allowed-go figure!!) Also, buying a used cheap trailer isn't allowed. You can use a mobile home as temporary living quarters while you build BUT the trailer has to have been manufactured after 1996 and you must have your well and septic installed before moving in. (where do gov't officials come up with these rules?? :roll: )

And, we have also just found out that log homes are perfectly fine with our county - but you must have documentation that the logs have been graded.

So before you buy anything--check with every gov't official that might have some authority in your county about what you can and can't do. Also, get it in writing.

[JeffandSara]

Great advice, Susan!

Sara

[Shields]

Before you buy land........

We just found out that we will not be 'allowed' by our county to camp on our land while we build (10 acres ajoining a national forest where camping is allowed-go figure!!) Also, buying a used cheap trailer isn't allowed. You can use a mobile home as temporary living quarters while you build BUT the trailer has to have been manufactured after 1996 and you must have your well and septic installed before moving in. (where do gov't officials come up with these rules?? :roll: )

While I can understand some of what your "gov't officials" are asking for (well and septic) I really don't think that many of the inspectors would in force the camper issue or for that matter the camping issue. I have an extensive history with the inspectors (these are the people who will actually come to your sight not the "suits" making the laws) in my area (that may be the difference) and can not see any of them telling me that I can't camp on my own land. Frankly speaking I would probably laugh if some one tried to in force that. As long as they see you are following building codes they will they shouldn't have much more to say. Just my 2 cents

[JeffandSara]

Hi, Shields--

Good point, I think that in MOST places, sure, there's an element of "don't-ask-don't-tell" and I agree with you that it's my property, I can do what I want, etc. :wink: But I also know people who've had inspectors who WOULD face off with them on the issue-- and likely try to enforce the fines for non-compliance. And unfortunately, it only takes ONE inspector with a problem to put you in, potentially, a world of hurt.

How well you can get away with some kinds of temporary living also depends on who's living around you and how big and/or open your particular piece of land is. It seems like a lot more of us are building (often through necessity) "closer in" to civilized areas, and I think those are harder places to "do what you want on your own land" without SOMEONE, official or civilian, having a problem with it-- and potentially trying to cause YOU a problem with it.

I figure, unless you want to go the "no government official on my land without a warrant" route, it's wise to at least know and think through what the rules are before you get tooooo deep into the project. I know from our project that any sort of "surprise" in that area could really put you in a tough spot.

Sara :D

[Susan]

While I can understand some of what your "gov't officials" are asking for (well and septic) I really don't think that many of the inspectors would in force the camper issue or for that matter the camping issue. I have an extensive history with the inspectors (these are the people who will actually come to your sight not the "suits" making the laws) in my area (that may be the difference) and can not see any of them telling me that I can't camp on my own land. Frankly speaking I would probably laugh if some one tried to in force that. As long as they see you are following building codes they will they shouldn't have much more to say. Just my 2 cents

[/quote]

We discovered this 'rule' because "someone" complained to the county that our neighbor who owns the 20 acres beside ours was 'camping' on his land. (Basically he was living in a pre-fab shed w/o utilities) so he was visited by a 'county official' who told him he was only allowed to 'camp' a certain number of days per month on his property and that the official would be enforcing the rule. The neighbors who are building on the 30 acres behind us had parked an RV on their land while they built so they could sleep there on weekends. The official who came to inspect their footers told them that they 'couldn't camp on the land and the county would enforce that rule' Both of these neighbors complied with the county rule, but maybe you are right and if they refused to comply they would have been left alone. Trouble is, when you have one person in an area who decides to file a complaint, the officials feel they have to respond--even if you are doing no harm. I just wanted to let folks who hadn't bought land yet know that you need to check with your locality before making plans to live in an RV, tent, etc. (Just so you don't get surprised)

[hawkiye]

Don't take these so called government officials word for it. Ask them if they can give you the particular ordinance or statute that requires what they claim.

Often they can't. Most importantly research the law yourself. I have found often that "their" interpretation was exactly that; theirs and often not from their own reading but from what they had been told by some "other" so called governement official.

Then when the law does not match what they told you politely inform them and ask them again where it is in law. Folks if you just roll over every time your told something this is how they are allowed to step outside the bounds of law.

An example here is in Susans post she wrote one nieghbor was told they could only camp a certain number of days per month. Another nieghbor was told they could not camp at all with their RV. Most jurisdicitons have provisions for temporary housing while you build. That is why you have to read the laws and usually you can find a way to comply like setting your RV on stands might make it temporay housing instead of camping etc. But you have to do you homework.

It is prudent to try and get along with these people when you can but if you do have to disagree or confront them always remain polite but do not back down and if they won't budge go to their superior and so on. Do not take no for an answer. If you do your homework first though you will be in a much better position to deal with them.

Blayne

PS inspectors are not engineers. If your plans are stamped by an engineer and the building permit approved you are good to go, if the inspector wants to change something he is out of line. Most building departments just want their money and an engineers stamp to cover their butts.

Also you want to find jurisdictions where there is not a lot of regulation. Where I am going to build they just want the fee for the building permit and want the septic inspected. You can pretty much build what you want.

Some people still don't get permits all they do is the county won't give you an official address thinking you can't get your mail. So what do people do? They just stick a mailbox with all the other rural mailboxes and put the next number in sequence as their address and have their mail sent there. The Post office doesn't care they just deliver the mail.

Blayne

[Basil]

This is very good advice. The most important part, Get along with these people if you can. I've made friends with the local building inspector, who has decided that I don't need a bilding permit at all, only an electrical inspection when wiring is done. The law is a little ambiguous in kentucky, so he has interpreted it and concluded to leave me alone. He's very interested in the building process as I've explained it to him, but he's a little worried about signing his name to it...

[Shields]

I think that some others explained my point in a better fasion then I did. I wasn't saying to run your officials off with a shotgun, or anything but don't just "roll over" Most inspectors are very accommodating, as long as you are following the building codes. I would say that a few times a week I question an inspectors "jugdement" on an issue sometimes he's right sometimes not. I don't live in a remote area and would say that we do have strict codes and standards that need to be met. We do have the right to ask why or show me were the ordinance is. These people are exactly that, they make mistakes and interpret things differently then I may, you don't need to be affraid of them, but you do need to be informed before you make your stand.

[lmoore]

I agree Susan, great advise! I would have never thought of that! Thank you so much! Oh and you guys I was planning on well and septic 1st in, you read my mind! You guys are pretty smart! Although, I've lived without a furnace through a winter in MI with my son before I transferred here, it wasn't too rough, me and my son slept in the main living room with the fireplace and closed up the rest of the house to stay warm (I was lucky enough to know how much oxygen really gets eaten up with a fireplace, have to have good ventilation). I was smart about it and cutt enough logs that summer to cover myself. When the going gets tough...mommy gets choping! You'd be surprised how much drive you have when you have a 10 month old depending on you and you alone, but i'm sure you guys already know this. So I grin and bare it, but i'll be honest I can not wait to get to the class, so I can find out those things that will make it a whole lot easier! Sorry for mixing up Gamma Rae and Blayne!!!! I'm a face person, once I see it, I never forget it! Opps. But forgive me when I say I don't know what a turk is. Did I spell that right? What's a turk? And I don't mean to be rude, but is that legal? The County can really dictate if you can stay on a property even if you're building on it???? How's that legal?? Wow! I'll have to do more research about Carnation and Duvall!!! Thanks you Guys! You really are the greatest!

[lmoore]

Okay, here's something really weird you guys! I just got off the phone with my x-husband who hates the gov. (yes, i talk to him for my sons sake) but he says that if I patent the land, that not only am I free of County regulations but I don't have to pay tax on the property until it is built, is he nuts? I don't know, from what I understand a patent costs a lot of money? And I don't really understand how you get a patent on land? But I figure he knows something, if he's owned business making $33,000 a month right? Don't ask! He's not obligated to send me anything (and he doesn't), I had to make a really hard trade for full custody of my son, you dig! Money isn't everything...some people say it is the root of all evil! Ya, i know....I sound crazy...but you try living with him! I'd rather be poor and happy. Anyone know about this civil right?? I will discuss with my lawyer, to see if this is true and inform you. Mostly likely it is expensive...but if it just includes a lot of paper work...I'm game!!

[hawkiye]

A land patent was the orignal method the US designed for property ownership. The idea was that if you owned property that you could not loose it for debt etc. so even if you lost everything else you still had a place to live and farm etc.

Well of course banks got involved and corrupted the system and now we have trust deeds and warranty deeds etc. that allows them to hold property to secure debt etc.

I have researched land patents years ago and basically in a nutshell the idea is to research the title back to the originl land patent that your property was part of. Most land patants were 60 acres or more so property smaller has been chopped up. Supposedly if you can show a chain of ownership from you back to the original patent and then record it with the county that is supposed to restablish the orginal rights of the land patent and make your land judgment proof and not subject to taxes repo for mortgage or debt etc. etc..

I have read accounts where it worked when challenged but have never been able to verify or substantiate it as in actually vewing cases or case sites . I doubt your lawyer will be very familiar with it and may not have even heard of it.

Bottom line these days is even if it is correct at law chances are some judge will not be familiar with it or care or both and rule against you if you try to use it. Judges have no accountability anymore and they are basically king in their courtroom. So even if someone has some success it is often not duplicatable elswhere in my experience.

Blayne

[Lolo-Steve]

Boxrkisses (Gina) Hi neighbor, I live on Hwy 380 about 30 miles to the east of you in Greenville, Hunt county. I work in Mckinney so we don't live that far apart. First let me say two things. 1: I have not taken the class yet 2: I have very little experience building a house much less a Log Home.

Having said all that let me tell you that you may live in one of the best states to build your own home (log home or stick built or mud hut for that matter, but lets stick with logs homes for now :) ) Why? Most of the small, less built up counties have no county wide building inspectors (sorry I think Colin county where you live does have a building inspector :( ) and this is good because other than having your septic system inspected by the health department you can build just about anything and anywhere in those counties. The other good (great) reason is Texas has some of the largest forest areas in the lower 48 states.

From the Texas State Foresty site:"How many acres of forestland are there in East Texas? Nearly 12 million. To put into perspective, that is equivalent to 12 million football fields.
Who owns the forests in East Texas?
Private landowners own 61% of East Texas??? forestland; forest industry owns 32%, and the public owns approximately 7% (this includes state and national forests and parks, as well as local and county land) "

So 61% of the forest in Texas is privately owned, which mean you should be able to find some logs pretty close to home.

River Rock? Not sure about that but again most people out in the "boonies" are pretty nice and I am sure you could ask property owners if you could take a few rocks here or there if you ask. Maybe you could tell them about what you are doing, show them a mock up of the house your going to build. Who knows they may have experience with something you are trying to do or build.... In the country we call this being neighborly in the city its called networking

Here are some links you might be able to use.
http://www.state.tx.us/category.jsp?categoryId=11.6 you can find counties close to Austin and find those counties website/ access to officials emails / phone numbers ect. You could ask the county clerks if there are county building inspectors/and or which towns have building inspectors. For Example Hunt county where I live does not have county building inspectors but the cities of Greenville and Commerce do have inspectors. Build outside those Cities, in Hunt county, and you do not have to worry about some one telling you if you can or can't build what you want to build. Flip side to this is: NO one to tell you "if you do that your house will fall down" lol.

I hope I was able to calm some of your fears and answer some questions (or at least give you some ideals on where to look for those answers)

Good Luck

[Lolo-Steve]

Hi Gina. I was doing a little research on the counties sournding Austin and the first county I contacted replied with the following: Oh BTW I am NOT considering moving to Lee County but the clerk seems to think I am :) Lee county is next to Austin, Texas.


We are so glad you are considering moving to Lee County. You will find that it is a wonderful rural community with lots of friendly folks. The County has no building restrictions or requirements. If building in a rural area, you might contact Bluebonnet Electric Coop for electric specs???979-542-3151; sewer requirements: 979-773-2268; if you choose to build in Giddings or Lexington, our only two incorporated cities you should call: Giddings: 979-542-2311; Lexington: 979-773-2221. I hope that this information is helpful to you. Do not hesitate to contact me again, if there is anything further that my office can assist you with.

Carol Jaehne Dismukes

County Clerk

If anyone wants to know how to contact all the Texas counties in order to get information like this just let me know and I will send it to you or post it here.

Just letting those of us who live in Texas that the building process does not have to be hamperd by building inspectors and that their are many many places to build your home without worring if you can pass the inspection.