Convince me [Archive] - Log Home Builders Association Forums

Susan

03-18-2005, 11:56 AM

Hi, I am new to this forum. My husband and I have been plannning and researching our dream to build a log home on 10 acres we own in VA. I have been a member of lhoti.com for a few years and found a link to this forum on a post on lhoti. I will admit to being very very skeptical about the methods taught by Log Home Builders Association. However, since I truly believe that a mind is like an umbrella-it doesn't work unless it's open-I'd like to hear more about this association. I am in no way wanting to start an argument and I am not trying to be a snark or a troll---but I would like to hear from those who have taken this seminar and/or have built their log home. Why did you pick this method? What can you say to convince me that spending the $$$ to take this course would be worth it?
Thanks in advance for your response.
Regards,
~Susan :)

tgardner

03-18-2005, 12:32 PM

Susan,

I took the class last year for many of the reasons you have seen posted on this site. Before I took the class, I liked the stories, the double-back guarantee, but most of all, the hope that the description instilled.

After taking the class, I can vouch for the credibility of the teaching and the claims. Beyond the technical requirements which the class met, I came away with the intangible "empowered" feeling. Through plain language and tedious explanations, the instructors conveyed their experience about log homes. It is truly refreshing to get this type of instruction from someone with experience rather than from someone who has a theory.

One side/added benefit is this ongoing website and support from the instructors. The instructors have been fourthcoming with their knowledge as new and unthought of questions arise.

Besides all of the above, you have to experience for yourself, the 'famous' cookies that the site promises.

mcdonis

03-18-2005, 12:43 PM

WillandHelen

03-18-2005, 01:38 PM

I looked around and talked to alot of people before i took the class. There are plenty of people that don't think much of the butt and pass/build a cheap log house by yourself method. But if you ask around...none of those people have taken the class. And most of them work for/own a kit log home. Thats why I took the class...and I loved it. Oh, and don't let the cost deter you from bringing a friend. 2 people can soak up more of the info.

GammaRae

03-18-2005, 02:13 PM

First, you will be able to get into the "Members" section, where a lot of really good topics are.

But that really is an added bonus.

After you walk into Skip's 7000 sq. ft. house and take the class from Steve and Ellsworth you'll laugh at your "skepticism".

Also, you'll realize that you just took a class from a couple of dudes who actually care about you - not because they are going around saying "We care about you." But because you will come to understand the large part of their motivation to teach the class is for YOUR good and that's the way the class is taught.

On top of that, you'll walk away with a WHOLE lot more knowledge about log home building from this 2-day course, than you probably would be from buying a kit or "learning to scribe".

JeffandSara

03-18-2005, 05:53 PM

Susan--

My husband and I both took the class (he actually paid to take it TWICE, he was so impressed), and last month we received our final inspection on our 2800 square foot, two-and-a-half story, "Skip-style" butt-and-pass home.

The techniques we learned were sound, practical and potentially economical (certainly moreso than any "comparable" kit/handcrafted log house.) The house we built (on the San Andreas Fault ) is both impressively sturdy (our structural engineer is a HUGE fan now) and memorably stylish.

As Gamma Rae said, just walking into the big house in Monroe is enough to convince most people. But there's a lot more substance at the seminar than just the impressiveness of the location.

The Association is not selling snake oil. They're sharing information... and ongoing support. We immediatly liked the fact that the ONLY thing Skip (the only instructor at the time we took the class) was "selling" was the seminar. It's a whole different deal, in our opinion, than the people who bad-mouth the methods... who mostly ARE selling construction, products, milled logs, or whatever. And many of whom obviously know little or nothing about Skip's seminar and process, except that people who attend the seminars no longer need to hire THEM for anything. Who has the more reputable motivation? The answer for us was easy.

And now, we realize more than ever how sincere the Association really WAS in offering us help ANY time we needed it. We didn't take too much advantage of the Association, partly because we felt confident in our understanding of the process, and partly because we live far from meetings and such. But when we HAVE contacted them, we were always treated like old friends. We're not paying dues for this treatment... it's just the kind of people the guys in charge of the Association are.

I've met quite a few log home builders on the internet over the years, and I can't say I ever met any I thought really cared ONLY about my best interests. Skip and Ellsworth and Steve, I believe, really do. My opinion. You and your husband will formulate your own. :D

Best of luck to you.
Sara

hawkiye

03-18-2005, 07:01 PM

I took the class last feburary. I was sceptical like you but I spent many hours reading through Skips website, there is actually quite a bit of info for free beyond the front page if you spend some time reading. I grew up in the construction trades so many things made sense to me.

I then did a search on Skips name on the internet to see what if any negatives there were out there. I found very little negative and several students who were or had built a log home after taking the class. Some of them documented there projects start to finish. I spent lots of time studying them.

I am a 3rd generation mason but have done a little of everything, but my family has always been a do it, make it yourself if you can and do it better etc. So this method really appealed to me. I can't tell how many times in my travels in the construction business I have been told you can't do that or it has to be done this way only, or it will cost this much, etc., etc. and I have found an easier better and cheaper way to do it. So Skips methods were right up my alley.

I also corresponded with Skip and the association and they answered all my questions etc. before I signed up for the class. For the price I doubt you can beat it for the knoweldge you gain and the support system after the class.

As others have said just walking into Skips amazing house will alleviate all skepticism if there is any still left after doing your homework. And that's the point. I doubt any of us here will convince you completely, we may help but you won't be convinced until you do your homework. There are enough finished houses on the net that after studying them you should be convinced this is for real. Just take a look at the Lucky Dog Lodge if that doesn't convince you this is for real nothing will. After that spend some time on the Associations site to help decide if this method is for you. It's definately is not for everyone.

Also if you want to know about Fords you don't ask a Chevy mechanic you ask a Ford mechanic and vica versa. There are some other craftseman out there that build some nice log homes using a notched method and that is fine, (they do teach notching in the class) and their are some selling snake oil as we all know. So if you want to know about this method you need to spend time on the Association site and talking to those who have or are building with it. Most of the folks who have documented their projects on the net will usually talk to you no problem.

Blayne

Mark

03-18-2005, 09:53 PM

Susan

Just my 2 cents. If you go, you will never forget Skips special cookies that are served at all the seminars. Or the log lizards.

The reason that this method is not popular in the kit log home venue, is that once you build a butt and pass log home it is so sturdy you can absolutely NOT break it down and ship it for reconstruction. That is the way kit log homes are built. And shipped and rebuilt.

The fact that they are so sturdy and so much quicker to build than the kits is amazing. If you study the pictures of the homes built by students you will notice there are no notches or grooves to cut. (this is very time consuming and a learned skill that is not necessary with the butt and pass system.

They told us in class that most log home builders will not have heard of this system and they were right. An old friend of many years had never heard of it and is skeptical. He is a log home builder in central Oregon where I'm going to build my log home.

So Susan, check out the homes built by Skip's students. Especially Ric Carlsons'. He took the class in 74, built this home in 1977 and recently sold it for $485,000. So you can see that Skip has been around for awhile and the homes hold up pretty well.

Good luck!

ChainsawGrandpa

03-18-2005, 10:17 PM

As for butt & pass...

My parents cabin was built about 5 years before I was born
(I'm 50). No settling, no problems, just perfect as built. The
cabin next door is even more beautiful, a pole (log??) home,
about 2,200'. Very nice, but man, does it ever have problems!
Lotsa settling. Of course it is scribed.

I took the course from Skip about a dozen years ago. We just
had to do a quick remodel on our house, and then build our log
home. We're almost done remodeling....

I'm heading to our property this Thursday. we will begin building
our log home for cash.

The seminar and this style of construction may not be for you, it
isn't for everyone. As for me, the seminar was easily one of the
top five smartest things I have done in my life. Opponents will
try to discourage you, friends and family may want you to return
to reality so you won't be disappointed when they say "I told you
so", but the truth is the methods and mindset work. No, I haven't
built yet, but because I was able to apply what I learned and kept
the mindset needed to take on this venture I have been able
to get property for pennies on the dollar, and many building
materials for free or next to nothing. Sometimes my biggest
expense is gas for my little truck.

Keep in mind that there is a guarantee with the seminar so you
really can't go wrong. The biggest mistake I have seen and
continue to see is people reinventing the wheel. Just build as
taught and the problems should be minimal.

Hope this helps some.
-Rick

hawkiye

03-19-2005, 12:58 AM

Just wanted to add a PS

With Skips method

You avoid several problems with settling,

No need to have screw jacks, or cut gaps allowing for settling around doors windows etc.

For some reason growing up in the construction trades I have a problem with a structure built that has to have the roof lowered and the doors and windows spaced with gaps so they don't break or stop working etc.

Also several structural engineers have looked at these and some of the plans and said they were overbuilt etc.

All the above points ought to be a major clue right there.

I have listend to all kinds of excuses by others builders why the gaps and screw jacks etc are acceptable and then listen to them try and nit-pick Skips method when they know little if any about it and totally ignore the fact that it eliminates the major problems these builders have to accomodate as part of their plan in their structures. They may know their method and some of them build some nice homes but when they try to apply their methods to denigrating Skips it gets quite comical in my view.

The proof is in the pudding, Skip has been at this for nearly 40 years.. His and his students homes have been standing as long or nearly as long and have stood the test of time despite some of the ridiculous claims they would rot or fall down in a few years.

Wow this got to be a lot longer PS then I intended. Anyway welcome to the forum Susan Since I forgot to say in my first post. ;)

Blayne

mcdonis

03-19-2005, 07:19 AM

In case you havent been monitoring the thread over at LHOTI, some of the concerns raised about skip were making claims about his methods. Let me just say first that I am not trying to cause arguments just trying to highlight possible questions. (since they were raised over at LHOTI)

Myself I am inclined to believe Skip and his folks since they have been so helpful and trustworthy. But I thought including some of these issues it might help answer some of Susans concerns. (BTW, these were not raised by Susan over there) I really cant answer these questions yet because I havent been able to attend and I havent built.

(Issues raised on the LHOTI thread about skip)

1. Mortar is brittle and will fall out over time. It will crack and allow mostiure into the logs.

2. One handcrafter said that the current log home of the month has the 10 lower logs rotted already. And the design of the front door roof will cause futher rotting. When asked to further explain, the handcrafter said.

"MCDONIS, The rot is shown by the water stains at the log ends or at least the beginning of rot and it will rot.....You just can't leave logs exposed to the weather and expect them not to rot."

3. The same handcrafter raised concerns about the subfloor design. (Again I am not trying to anger people, just trying to point out what concerns people have raised, that way people who are experienced in skips methods can give answers to Susans question) .

"Putting logs on a subfloor does not rot the logs and anyone that tells you that is either lying or just plain stupid.Anyone who uses mortar chinking (other than for historical restoration) in the age of synthetics and claims that it is better is either lying or just plain stupid. I simply can't imagine what other pearls of wisdom (sic) are taught in those classes"

Much of the other posts were much worse but really didnt provide a whole lot of tangable issues, just a whole lot of dislike. Perhaps this handcrafter sees Skips method as a threat to his business, so that is why he is so vile in his speech. But in any case I thought It might be a good point of reference for people to have when answering Susans post.

JeffandSara

03-19-2005, 07:30 AM

Mcdonis--

I'll just address the mortar chinking one, because it's easy.

We have a home which breathes. Yes, moisture can get into mortar chinking, but it can also get OUT. Synthetic's "fine" as long as it's "fine". But the idea there is to putty up every possible opening .... and then if (and we believe "when") the synthetic "fails" and water gets in, it CAN'T get out!

So which is more likely to cause rot?

Also, who benefits from selling synthetics vs. selling mortar? Also, don't the synthetic people say you have to replace it eventually? Our 1930s log house (which had traditional mortar not nearly as practically applied as SKip suggests) has EVERY SINGLE PIECE of mortar retained.

:D

Take care-- Sara

JeffandSara

03-19-2005, 07:33 AM

PS....

Re: a breathing house.... it's also better for your health, I believe.

And by NOT putting a mile of synthetic chinking in my walls, I figure I'm being off-gassed by that much less chemical stuff.

We moved to the mountains for the fresh air, after all. :wink:

Sara

somasoul

03-19-2005, 07:55 AM

I haven't taken the class but I have looked for info about Skip on the web. Everything bad I have seen about his class was written by someone who hadn't taken the class.

I have not found one person, not one (Though I'm sure they exist), who has thought Skip ripped them off, that his ideas were bad or that he's the son of the devil or any other vile thing.

The lack of bad press seems to be a good sign. In the retail business we often say for every customer you do something extraordinary for they will tell three people. For every customer you do something horrible to, they tell ten. If Skip's class was so worthless you'd think that there'd be an abundance of angry people voicing their opinion, don't you? After all, he's had forty years and hundreds of classes to make alot of enemies.

These are things I've thought about before taking class, before handing over my money and before meeting anyone. In fact, I can't find a reason to not take the class.

Susan

03-19-2005, 08:38 AM

Thank you for all of your responses. The common thread I see running through the responses so far seems to be to motivation and moral support that the membership in Log Home Builders Association gives. And I certainly can understand how that would be very important. Building a home is a monumental undertaking for most folks so any support that you can get would be worth a lot, IMO.

MCDONIS,
Thanks for the welcome...... :). I really didn't want to bring lhoti.com into this, because I didn't want to stir up any 'trouble' but I wanted to let everyone here know where I was coming from - The questions and concerns raised on lhoti were, in my opinion, valid. However, I can see where there is room in this big wide world we live in for both schools of thought. I've read everything here on Skip's forum, and I have come to the conclusion that the methods Skip teaches are more utilitarian where as the methods the handcrafters on lhoti use are more 'craftsmanship' in nature (and the milled manufacturers somewhere inbetween the two) None is better than the other, just different.

A couple of points and then I'll shut up (sometimes I tend to run on :oops: )

The reason that this method is not popular in the kit log home venue, is that once you build a butt and pass log home it is so sturdy you can absolutely NOT break it down and ship it for reconstruction. That is the way kit log homes are built. And shipped and rebuilt.

(This may be a issue of terminolgy) The term 'kit' is usually used to describe a milled log home. The most popular corner style in the milled industry is butt and pass AND milled log homes are not assembled prior to shipping to your building site. Milled companies rely on precision milling machines and exacting cutting diagrams to shape and pre-cut logs that will fit together. Homes that are made from peeled natural logs are scribed and notched and pre-assembled in a log yard and then taken down shipped and reassmbled on your building site. The term most often used for this type of home is 'handcrafted shell'. The term kit is so very confusing--I personally don't use it any more--so can understand your
confusion.

With Skips method

You avoid several problems with settling,

Absolutely - settlement is a big issue that Skip's method avoids. But no method avoids log movement. Dry, green, scribed, chinker, dovetail, butt and pass----doesn't matter. Logs are not static objects--they move, they shrink and swell and change over time (that's why I love 'em :) ) One issue I have with Skips method (and maybe it is covered in the seminar) is that the 'movement' of logs doesn't seem to be allowed for? Any enlightenment on this issue would be appreciated.

Well, I'll zip my lip now!! :lol: Thanks for letting me hang out here. Y'all seem like a nice bunch of folks!!

JeffandSara

03-19-2005, 08:53 AM

Susan--

There is a very specific method of spiking that controls log wall settling. The logs can expand and contract, but they won't "drop".

Our home has a 21 or 22 foot tall log wall with a very large and heavy roof on top (actually a "double roof" with show rafters plus a snow-load roof on top). Our log butts range from 26" down to about 21" as I recall (so they're not small or light) and our wall height hasn't changed more than a fraction of an inch in three years. All our doors and windows open the same as when we installed them.

As for milled producing logs that fit together perfectly, I think it's important to look at older millede homes. There are plenty in neighboring areas here, especially ones that use random lenghts in their walls. They may or may not have fit precisely to begin with, but MANY of the joints "spring" in or out over time.

Our logs were "bent and bumpy" to begin with as a favorite Association member of mine would say, but a log with an average diameter of 18" isn't going to change shape over time. And hand-crafted logs, if they dry out more overtime... or expand or contract with moisture, etc.... that could change their FIT. My logs can do whatever they "want" in that area, but the "worst" thing that could happen is that at the tops of my (natural mortar :wink: ) chink zones, there might be a larger or smaller gap.

And I will tell you, as I've told others, I CHECKED the gap in Skip's house when I was at the seminar, because I was concerned about the size of it. I stuck my little finger in up to the second joint, and there was not a HINT of draft-- even mid-winter on a blustery Washington day.

The questions are legitimate, Susan. But we've not personally found one that we didn't feel this method had a better answer for than either milled or handcrafted did. JMHO :D

Sara

PS... And if we were ever to build again, we'd build this style if at all possible! :D

Susan

03-19-2005, 01:38 PM

Sara,
Congrats on your house. Being able to live your dream has got to be one of the best feelings in the world!! (I'll admit to a bit of envy here :wink: )
I'd like some more info regarding the mortar--here in my neck of the woods, with high humidity and a freeze thaw cycle like you wouldn't believe--20 degrees one day, 70 degrees the next, turn around and it's raining and 30 degrees the next day (Jeez, if ya don't like the winter weather in VA just wait 5 minutes-it'll change!! :lol: ) well, you get the idea-H2O gets into the mortar and before evaporation can occur, it's frozen. This causes minute cracks in mortar, which gathers more H2O the next time it rains (or sleets) and then it freezes again, and then the cracks get larger..............and so on. That's one reason folks around here have to have mortar in their chimneys and brick walls repointed every so often. Maybe this isn't an issue around the rest of the country? I'm afraid I don't know much about it....but living in an area with a pretty fair number of old (250 years) log structures, I have noticed that the mortar used to replicate the old mud and horsehair chinking really doesn't look so good after a few years and needs to be touched up to keep it looking good and functioning properly. Can you give me some insight on this?

Also,.........I am not a fan of round logs. Sorry, it's a regional thing, I guess. But here in the Shenandoah Valley, round log homes just look out of place IMHO. This isn't a slam on round logs- they are lovely-I just prefer the old hand hewn/dovetail corner appalachian style - Would I gain any benefit from attending Skips seminar? Obviously, the method of constructing the log walls we will be using wouldn't be the same, but I was wondering if you thought I could gain enough info regarding things like foundations, roof structure, etc. to make it worth a cross-country trip?

Mark

03-19-2005, 01:55 PM

Susan

okey dokey.. I should have said "many" kit log homes are assembled, disassembled and shipped and reassembled. I tend to think of processed logs as timbers or giant dowels. A log after it is altered by flattening or turned on a lathe or such, is it still a log? Also anything that cuts into a log will invite moisture in through the cut. With Skips' method the logs are kept intact.

As to movement....With Skip's method the only measurable movement is each log shrinking towards it's own center, and not from the top of the wall to the bottom. This is addressed by re-chinking after a year or so. But only if your logs are not 100% cured before construction.

WillandHelen

03-19-2005, 02:09 PM

Skips method allows for log movement by allowing the logs to move toward thier own center individually. In a kit hom the stacked walls compress like a sponge, a kip style home compresses on the center of each log. Take the class and you'll see. :wink:

Steve

03-19-2005, 02:30 PM

Just to clear up a couple of misconceptions...

This is addressed by re-chinking after a year or so.

That's not true -- we just go back and "touch up" the chinking, fill any gaps, and cover any cracks that appear. Re-chinking the whole house would be way too much work.

I'd like some more info regarding the mortar--here in my neck of the woods, with high humidity and a freeze thaw cycle like you wouldn't believe--20 degrees one day, 70 degrees the next, turn around and it's raining and 30 degrees the next day (Jeez, if ya don't like the winter weather in VA just wait 5 minutes-it'll change!! ) well, you get the idea-H2O gets into the mortar and before evaporation can occur, it's frozen.

We have many members who have built in "very cold" and "very hot" environments, used mortar for chinking, and have not had problems. However, here's the good news: you can chink a "Skip-style" home with whatever you want -- mortar is not required. So if you feel that a latex product is more appropriate for your environment, you can do that.

In fact, the March Log Home of the Month (the Lucky Dog Lodge) was chinked with a commercial latex product. The builder (Steve Copeland) decided that he didn't have time to do the chinking himself, so he subcontracted the job to a professional chinking company.

We like mortar because it breathes (allowing water to escape, whereas latex keeps it in and rots the wood). We also like it because it is practically free compared to the various commercial products (around here the popular stuff goes for $175 for a five-gallon pail). Since we don't sell chinking products, we don't mind if people use other stuff -- no problem.

Hope this helps. :)

JeffandSara

03-19-2005, 05:43 PM

Steve, you said "we go back and touch-up the chinking".

Or not? :wink:

We are planning to be in the "or not"group. Since it obviously doesn't affect the insulative quality of the house, I personally couldn't care less about a few cracks and gaps.

Sara :D

hawkiye

03-19-2005, 11:29 PM

2. One handcrafter said that the current log home of the month has the 10 lower logs rotted already. And the design of the front door roof will cause futher rotting. When asked to further explain, the handcrafter said.

"MCDONIS, The rot is shown by the water stains at the log ends or at least the beginning of rot and it will rot.....You just can't leave logs exposed to the weather and expect them not to rot."

The lucky Dog lodge is built like Skips place. I believe Skips current log home where the classes are held was built in the 80's ( Steve or Ellsworth correct me if I am wrong) that's a lot of winters and it hasn't rotted and it has no goop on it. That's the advantage of leaving the outer rings on the logs and allowing the logs natural defenses to weather remain in tact instead of peeling off the outer rings along with the bark. As I said the proof is in the pudding.

This is what I mean when I say some of these builders apply their own methods to denigrate Skips not having any expereince with his method. If we peeled the logs like they do sure they would rot but we don't and he is probably assumiing we do. That's just one example.

Blayne

kyle

03-20-2005, 06:01 AM

Hi Susan,

I to was skeptical of what was being said by Skip and the LHBA. When I came upon Skip's site I was getting ready to start planning for a $300k log home. Whoa, thank god for the internet! Even when I deciced to go last March I was still a little skeptical but more so I was so excited. When I took the class for approx $400 I figured that was pennies if I was going to spend $300k so I had nothing to lose. Growing up on a farm and having totally renovated a small house I bought, I've pounded a few nails and sawed a few boards but a contractor I am not. Before the class I was planning on hiring out prolly about half of the work on my project and doing the rest myself. Now as I get ready to build I will plan on only hiring someone to drill the water well and install the sandmound and I will do the rest. I used to install sand mounds when I worked in the summer for and excavating company during college so I know how to do that but for me to rent the equipment and do it myself its not cost effective. So yes the class was great for me! Is it great for you, only you can answer that question. Even though the price had gone up since then that is not without reason. They now have this forum and also give you a course book. I had to take all my notes by hand. I would have gladly paid more. So the cost increase is justified. My instructors were Steve and Ellsworth and you get so much more than just 11 hours a day from them. Each evening I was the last (maybe next to last 1 night) to leave which was usually 3 hours after class had ended. They don't just say class is over have a nice night and scoot you out the door. They are willing to stay and answer your questions, and believe me if you are serious about building yourself you'll have a lot of questions. That's what makes the members section of this forum so awesome.

If you aren't serious about doing most of the work yourself would I recommend it, no. If you don't mind getting your hands dirty and putting in the time (a lot of time) then yes I recommend it. Remember that I was one of those who was going to spend a couple hundred thousand building a home. A friend of mine spent well over 600k on his new log home to be built and he has had nothing but problems with it. The contractor didn't do the roof work correctly so basically the house doesn't retain any heat. His heating bills have been just like his heat "Through the roof"! They have redone the roof once already (from the inside) and it still doesn't work. He is at the point where he is considering selling the house because he is so frustrated. Its a shame because its beautiful but not worth the headaches.

To answer your question on "movement". Yes, every log home has some movement but these issues are covered in class. Most of the issues covered in class are really common sense when you think about them. But it takes going to the class to understand them.

So in short all my skepticism was/is gone! It is well worth the money in my mind! Is it for everyone? No. Was it for me? Yes!

Mark

03-20-2005, 09:13 AM

Steve, that's what I meant, touch up, should have been more specific

restless

04-19-2005, 11:35 AM

Hey Susan, If your mind is an umbrella the class should be a must! You will not be alone. You will be among a bunch of people who share the same dream,A HOUSE. Many who have a preconcieved idea of what they want. I DID! Being in a group of people you have the advantage of hereing building concerns and ideas from probably no less than 20 differnt minds all of whom have already done some dreaming as to what they expect from their homes. The most valuable thing I brought home from the class was to try and anticapate problems before they happen. Think things to the end before you begin. If you look in the cabins built by students you will come to realise they are not all pure Skip style houses, but they are all houses built by people who took the Skip style class. One thing for sure, they are built by people many of whom had no experience other than a dream to build a house themselves. If that doesn't show the true value of the experiense I don't know what could. Remember the three little pigs? I they had taken the class and had thought their homes through to the end possibly none of their houses would have blown down! WELCOME TO THE CLUB! Gary dream on!

rreidnauer

04-24-2005, 04:18 PM

Absolutely - settlement is a big issue that Skip's method avoids. But no method avoids log movement. Dry, green, scribed, chinker, dovetail, butt and pass----doesn't matter. Logs are not static objects--they move, they shrink and swell and change over time (that's why I love 'em :) ) One issue I have with Skips method (and maybe it is covered in the seminar) is that the 'movement' of logs doesn't seem to be allowed for? Any enlightenment on this issue would be appreciated.

Yes, and no. :) Skips methods prevent settling - period. Yes they logs will shrink, but the walls WILL NOT settle, and do not move. The secret is in the design, and is one that is kept for the class. I was extremely sceptical of building without settling allowances, but no more. His methods are simple ingenuity. Keep in mind that Skip's three story home has been there since the early 80's and still has never settled or needed to be re-chinked. (and in that time was exposed to a significant earthquake without any damage) Keep in mind, he's a fifth generation builder, he know's what he's doing.

You're going to have to take the class to get the secrets, but heck, there's a money back guarantee if you aren't satisfied. How can you go wrong?

owenbscott

04-26-2005, 03:00 AM

I found the LHBA when I was poking around Google, looking for log home kits. I had this idea that I would like to build a recreational cabin in the Santa Ana mountains of CA for my family, and that purchasing a kit would be the way to go. It was the negative information about kits at the LBHA website that Google picked up on, and thank goodness I stumbled upon it. I convinced my brother, who lives in Seattle to take the class with me, and we are both thrilled that we did. (Feb 23, 2005) I haven't stopped thinking about building since I took the class, and won't stop thinking about it until I build the cabin I want to, I'm sure.

I had some background in construction, having spent a year as a stonemason about 20 years ago, and two years on a framing crew around the same time. So I had some preconceived notions about how things should go together, but I have to say that the information was laid out in the class so simply, clearly, and sensibly, that they have convinced me that their methods are superior in almost all respects.

So, even if you like square logs, you will be able to take the principles laid out in the course with you, and apply them as appropriate, I am sure.

All in all, the course is worth every penny, and in fact is a bargain when you consider how much money you will save by using their methods of construction.

wood bug

05-17-2005, 11:42 AM

Hi all, 2 months ago I Helped finish a 3600 sq foot home for my brother, a conventional home and he was his own contractor to save on cost we did alot of the work, its a beautiful home on 4 acreas, and for 25 years he can pay off the $225000 it cost him to build. I can build probably 4 homes as nice with a western flair for the same cost not including the property.

The class is real, the concepts are solid, and just what you learn about foundations, you will save when you build your own house, or have it built using paid labor, how do you feel when you go through all the mortgage and realestate paper work? are you skeptical? do you wonder if your getting overcharged? do you really understand all you sign? are you happy paying a long term mortgage for x number of years. Will your job and health take you through your mortgage term? will the world be the same market in 20 years? There are builders out there that say they are "log home" artist and I am sure some are good at what they do, but I was 3 years old building with pre-cut Lincoln Logs (remember them) would that be the same as a "kit" home? same concept.. This is not a new concept they teach..when you build or supervise your own house you save by using the knowledge they show you. there is no commercial application..If you bought 2 cars one custom built for you and one off the assembly line, which one would have the best quality? it answers you have to solve yourself..

Kama

05-17-2005, 12:02 PM

Susan,
Another benefit of the class is the great group of folks you'll meet, kindred spirits. I guarantee that folks from the class will come out to help you build. A lot of it depends on how far they will have to drive of course. Well let me ask you this: would you drive out to someone's project and give a couple hours of your time to get some experience building a log house?

Andy

loghomefun

12-18-2005, 10:11 PM

"Convince me"

:arrow: http://www.loghomebuilders.org/log-homes-22b.htm

That might do it :!:

Here are a couple who took the class and then built a log home that looks like THAT. I know I left the class with the same knowledge they did, and I was left confident I can do that same thing.

I know how they built that, and I know how to build that. Sometimes I am still amazed by that fact.

Since taking the class, for some strange reason, I find myself listening less and less to all the people who tell me "you can't do that." Not just about log homes, but with a lot of other things in my life. For some reason, now that I stopped listening to those people I find that I can do a lot more.

Doug