Question on home layout and basement..

[dirtmcgirt79]

So, I haven't signed up for the class yet.. although I will soon.. It just so happens that we are on vacation the week of the May class, and my wife would never let me skip out on her beach trip.:)

But I have been reading tons of threads on here, and the knowledge level among members seems to be amazingly high.. so I have a few questions that hopefully someone will feel comfortable answering..

I spent several months designing and drawing plans for our dream log home... Originally we were dead set on going with a kit home.. Mainly because I had no idea that building our own home (from scratch) was even an option.. We would still like to build our home with the same layout if possible as we originally intended. But of course it's not a square layout.. and most of the student homes that I've seen on here, are the standard 30x30 or 40x40 plans...
Ours design has a prow in the rear. I guess I'm just looking for reassurance that these would be possible to build, with the methods taught in the class. Like I said, we have been brainstorming these ideas for a long time now, and know that this will likely be our last home..so we would really like to make it the home that we imagined it would be, if at all possible.
Here is a quick pic of the first level..
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c169/cmoats79/newhouse.jpg

Also, we are very much set on having the house on a full walkout basement. And I'm guessing by looking at pics and posts here, that the floor is actually built onto the house, not the other way around like with other methods.. Can anyone explain how that might work with a full basement, instead of piers, without leaking over into members' only type information? I'm just trying to get an idea of how it would work


Thanks for such a great board.

[JD]

Cameron,
A log home can be built in any shape, just like a stick frame home. The square design is taught in the class and used by most members for a few reasons.
1. It's simpler for first time builders with little or no construction experience.
2. More efficient use of space. A square house provides more square feet of usable space than a rectangular house with the same linear feet of wall.
Example: A 10'X10' room is 100 sqft while a 15'X5' room is only 75 sqft. Same amount of materials to make both rooms but one has more space.
3. It's cheaper. Your roof is likely to be your greatest construction expense and a simple roof with no complex angles or framing saves you money. This is another reason that it's cheaper to build a 2000sqft two story house than a one story house of the same size. The 2000sqft one story house will require a much larger roof which translates to more $$$.

All that said, check out all the pictures in the "student log homes" section. You will see prow roofs, walk out basements, very complex roof designs, and just about anything else you can imagine. The sky is the limit. But as they say in racing, "Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?".

Enjoy the forums.
JD

[Timber]

Here is something that is not a square Box but it will be harder to build, take longer but will certainly be worth it. http://www.geocities.com/naniorr/mypage.html

Here is a quote from an experienced builder!>Introduction page 9 or 10 I think-So you should probably KISS=keep it simple stupid

Michael Simmons---

I first took Skip's weekend class in 1986. I did the apprentiship program in 1987. I made a lot of money when I stuck to Skip's plan.I lost a bit when I did not. Gosh, it has been twenty years !

Extravagance in building or "delusions of grandure" as Skip says are the key downfalls to new builders. You have seen the fancy log homes with loads of compound angles and "tricked out" featurettes and you want to copy that. Tighten the reighns for a minute,,,,,,,,

Listen up ! For the first one--- do as Skip reccommends, keep it very very simple.

Then, after your first one you will have a clearer picture of the obstacles you face. mostly governmental agencies that know no bounds and are a law unto themselves.

Skip has aided me in avoiding the slavery that is implicit in a thirty year mortgage, he is a purveyor of freedom.

The benefits I obtained from taking his courses make the course admission prices pale in comparison, the courses were worth to me many hundreds of times what I paid for them. I have used what I learned not only in log home construction but in ordinary construction , advising others and in obtaining employment , aiding homeless and too much more to mention here. My expertise has taken me to South America, Chile, Argentina, Venezuela, Idaho, Montana, Washington, Utah, Colorado, and now to Afghanistan.

loghomeguy@msn.com


--


Michael Simmons





Ron

[dirtmcgirt79]

Hey guys..

Yeah I know.. the money can add up quick the more complex you get.. And to be honest if I knew that this house would only be a stepping stone to building another one later on, then I would go for simpler and probably one of the standard plans.. but this is it.. the one I expect to be in until our time is up.. So we need to build keeping our family, lifestyle, and future happenings in mind.

I can tell you though that if I can build this house for $150K, I'll be happy enough to jump for joy!! That is so much cheaper than we are living now.. At that price, we could still be mortgage free.. and that sounds great to me.. And a kit home would cost us $150k just for the darn kit.

The good thing is that we have access to (family owned) 200+ acres of wooded land that we will be able to log off of.. If nothing else, I'll pay a logger to come in, cut em down and move them to my homesite..

[JohnnyCoho]

Hey there Cameron, how ya doing? Dunno' if ya saw our place in the student log homes section or not, but we are close to completion of our log home / B&B now... We've done all the work ourselves and I am an ex-contractor with years of experience including years of experience pricing out and bidding jobs.... Our place is on and under budjet and will come in under 150k once done in late May. That includes all new appliances, custom cabinets, heating and AC, commercial group B water system for a B&B, and commercial septic. Our main structure not including wrap around porch is a 35' X 30' 3 Bdrm. / 3 Bath log home. We didn't skimp on much other than labor and know-how... otherwise I'm sure we could have come in WAY cheeper than we did... My wife deserves the best, and thats what she's getting!! My great grandkids deserve the best too... and I literally built our place to last for generations to come! ( O.K.. here's the "Catch", I am now a full time fishing and hunting guide and bartering goes a real long way with clients in the cabinet, plumbing, and HVAC business!! )

Even with years of experience as a licensed contractor I still learned a ton from the LHBA class and highly recommend it to anyone interested in log home living and building!!

[dirtmcgirt79]

Hi Johnny.. your house is looking great!!! What size logs did you use?
I am definitely going to take the class.. What's cool is that I just found out this morning that a very good friend of our family built his own log home 22 years ago, using the butt and pass method, and timber off of his land... And he volunteered to help us out in anyway that he can when we decide to start building. So I'm feeling better by the minute..

But yes.. I feel the same way that you do too.. My wife has suffered with me for a long time :), working her butt off to help out the household.. I want her to have the house that she has always wanted to have.
I know how those contacts really help out.. My father in law is a cabinet maker, my brother in law is a master HVAC installer, and I can wire and plumb just about anything. I am in no form a contractor, but I have helped build a few houses in the past... And we are using recycled things as much as possible. We have a 100+ year old barn that is full of 1" oak that we are going to tear down to use as flooring for the entire house, and use as siding on the gables..every little bit helps...

Man, this excites me, as I have been planning this house for so long, but never thought that I might be able to do it without a mortgage at the end.

[Basil]

My house layout is very similar to yours. The main structure of my house is 36X36 with 1/2 open to the top (about 26 feet) and the other half has a second floor with two bedrooms and bathrooms. The master suite is the "bump out" on the back and is 20X30 with a second floor closet. You could build your bump-out out of logs or you could frame it. It can be done.

I wouldn't do it again, having done it once. The roof system around those corners is a pain and mine was compounded by the wrap-around porch. It looks great now, but I had no idea how it would turn out until I did it and believe me that is not the best way to build.


As a side note on the mortgage, we bought our 70 acre farm for $100,000 and after I get final approval on my loan (after we move in in about two months) our total debt will be less than $200,000. This will be for purchasing a farm,cattle, a tractor, fencing, and oh yea-building a 2700 square foot house!

[JohnnyCoho]

Love the energy and positive attitude Cameron... Keep that ball rolling!!

We used Douglas Fir logs for our home and the small butt ends of our logs are 12" diameters... large butt ends vary from 14" to 18" butts. Mix of 2nd growth fir and pee-wee old growth fir.

Love the fact that you have old barn wood to use for flooring and gable end siding!!

[Klapton]

Shed dormers are much easier to build than gable dormers. Also, tacking a shed roof on the side of the big box to cover a porch is an inexpensive and easy way to make the house not look so square. Something like this: http://www.larryslogcabin.com/Outside3.jpg

This home has a shed dormer: http://www.loghomebuilders.org/windows-log-homes . It breaks up the roof line, gives more light and headroom in a loft space, but does NOT require super genius geometry skillz.

[Debby]

My only concern with your plan is that your one wall is 57' long. That means you will need to find logs that are 60' long. Can be done, depending where you are, but they also have to be hauled legally. Look into it, but take the course before you make any lasting decisions regarding your plans.
Debby

[GENE13]

Isn't the max lengh 40' ?

[Basil]

Max length is determined by your logs, not by any set parameters.

If you are talking about max length to haul, I know that logs MUCH longer than 40' can be hauled. My ridgepole and cap logs were 55 feet when delivered.

[freefrankie]

Cameron, I took the class back in 2003; the best investment I ever made!!
I learned more in the first 2 hours than I had ever imagined....Go for it!

[Debby]

I know nothing about hauling in West Virginia, but my logger could only haul 56'max. He cheated a bit for me so my cap logs and ridgepole are 60'. I'm sure permits can be had for longer, but it will cost more and you also need to have access to logs that long that aren't tapered down too small. Just something to consider. Hope it all works out for you. I also had drawn up plans before we went to the class. We had been planning rectangular, but I found I was able to get what I wanted with a square. It'll all work out I'm sure. Have fun planning!
Debby

[dirtmcgirt79]

Hi Debby

Yeah.. I've thought about how I am going to get 60' logs, but I believe we have many Eastern white pines on our property that are much taller than that.. But of course whether or not they have a consistent diameter for 60' I don't know.. But if so, then I won't have to worry about hauling.. just moving to our building site..

[lbrowne]

Hi Cameron,

Although this is the design you want now, you may wind up with some changes by the time you're done. One of the books I like is Building an Affordable House. It may not be for everyone, but it's worth looking up at your library, $16 at amazon, or even less used. http://www.amazon.com/Building-Affordable-House-High-Value-Construction/dp/1561585963

And the book at this thread: http://www.loghomebuilders.org/book-everyone-read-building . It was published under two different names, but same material.

If you don't have logs with enough length for that long end, you could add a small section similar to the opposite side. More work overall, but shorter logs to deal with.

Linda

[GENE13]

Hi Debby

Yeah.. I've thought about how I am going to get 60' logs, but I believe we have many Eastern white pines on our property that are much taller than that.. But of course whether or not they have a consistent diameter for 60' I don't know.. But if so, then I won't have to worry about hauling.. just moving to our building site..





Cameron, I'm attending class this weekend so there are MANY things that I'm not privy to, however, I was curious when you said "But of course whether or not they have a consistent diameter for 60' I don't know" I have never read anywhere in the forum that the diameter had to be consistent from top to bottom, I know the preferred logs would be ones with the least taper. If I'm off base someone please let me know. :-)
TX's

[GENE13]

It's probably different from state to state, but I'm sure there is a set lenght you can legally haul, WITHOUT the need of a permit or the use of escort vehicles. Anyway I would think so, LOL :-)

[Timber]

Basil Wrote
If you are talking about max length to haul, I know that logs MUCH longer than 40' can be hauled. My ridgepole and cap logs were 55 feet when delivered.Basil


So when do we get to see the pictures?

Ron

[Basil]

Sorry, there are a lot in the members section but I can't remember ever posting progress pictures in the general forum. I've got a new set of pictures in the camera now, I'll post those in the general forum next week. I'm not living there yet but I'm getting really close...

[Timber]

pictures waiting--those members seen plenty--I will soon be one too!Meanwhile us non members would like to see em

Ron

[Loghomeguy]

Actually a log home cannot be built in "any" shape. In theory it must have an even number of corners.

When you combine short-run walls with long-run walls you come in to the problem of coping with taper.

Suppose your logs taper an average of 1 inch per ten feet so in 60 feet you have six inches of taper.


That means a log with a 14 inch diameter big end is 8 inches at the small end.

Opposite the 57 foot wall is what is in essence (if it were laid out in a straight line) approximately a 77 foot wall( assuming the right angle wall is 10 feet, there was no scale for that ) so if you used a 77 foot log it would have to be 14 inches at the big end and 8 inches at the small end to match, a formidable task.

Now you have to match a 77 foot wall taper to a 57 foot wall taper to two 32 foot walls which will only have three inches of taper.

Dealing with this kind of disparity in length of log walls takes a lot of extra effort and can be tricky. Also your roof framing will be much more difficult with the side-out opposite the 57 foot wall.

In class or in the members-only you will learn the in's and out's of this type of issue and become able to see it more clearly and deal with it.

Hey everyone !!! I posted a new photo from my first contract in 1988 this was a time lapse of the circumpolar region I took through a pretty detailed roof-framing on a cabin I built on Lake Roosevelt, the Columbia river behind Grand Coulee damn,,,,,,,oops typo.

http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii68/loghomeguy12/?action=view&current=North_Star_Through_Beams.jpg


Mikey, journeymans class of 1988 or 1987 I think,,,,,, ha ha