Couple's Horror Story w/ Maine Builders...

[GrafikFeat]

Ya gotta feel for these folks...

"We created this website to help people in Maine who are thinking of building a new home or remodeling. There is no licensing for builders and contractors in Maine. Some are great! Some are not trustworthy! Unfortunately, we have found this out the hard way while building our new Katahdin Log Home. We have been through 3 builders and the last ones ran off with a chunk of our retirement and savings. Our home sits without a roof getting destroyed by snow and rain. Please go to our Bulletin Board and tell us who you like (please use names) and who you don't! Let's help and protect each other from unscrupulous building practices.

Please view NEWS! about upcoming legislation to license builders in the state of Maine!"

http://www.reliablebuildersinmaine.com/page3.html

http://www.reliablebuildersinmaine.com/page6.html

[hawkiye]

I feel for these folks. however licensing builders is not the answer. There are just as many licensed flaky contractors as not. You pay you money pass a test a ten year old could be trained to pass and boom instant contractor.

Enlisting government to watch out for you is the fox guarding the hen house. Licensing contractors is mainly a revenue generator for the government and rarely keeps charlatans from ripping people off even though it is touted as a great protection.

The problem is people not doing their homework they listened to salesman and bought the story instead of asking to talk to satisfied customers and seeing completed projects etc.. In my view too many people expect someone else to do their homework for them and for youand I to pay for it via taxes and more government. Caveat emptor!

Blayne

[ifeelnothin]

Hi,
I am the poor sucker that you said did not do my homework. Well, we did. For 2 years. We read the magazines, talked to several builders etc. We did view work done by the builder from Katahdin, the problem was, when he got to our home, he had a couple of messes to clean up behind him so he never showed. His lead man had a few months experience and that was the only one who knew what he was doing. When we met with the owner of Katahdin Cedar Log Homes, Dave Gordon, he said that the builder was really not their builder, just someone who was a dealer. I still don't get it! The next builder came recommended from another trusted log home company in our area. And that went bad too. I guess why I think licensing is the only answer is that at least if they have a few complaints they will no longer hold a license and won't be able to swindle 15 people, it might end at 2. Right now there is no way to check on builders other than word of mouth and this is what I am attempting to help with my site. I am sure the bums who took us are doing it again and again. And their references, well, guess it was friends of theirs or something and they shnookered the log home company too because they couldn't believe they did that to us either. Buyer beware, yeah, I guess. But hard to ask questions if you don't even know what they are. Like, do we have to unload our own 18-wheeler when it arrives at our site?? Wouldn't have thought of that one.

[Ellsworth]

Sorry to hear your story :( It sounds like a horrible situation.

You guys aren't alone, this happens across the country... and it does not matter if the contractors are required to have licenses.

http://www.loghomebuilders.org/kit_log_homes_horror_stories.htm

http://www.savetheshumways.com/
The Shumway's have an equally horrible story, perhaps even worse :(

http://www.mariarose.com/logcabin.htm -- there's a great quote about kit magazines on this couple's website.

[ifeelnothin]

Hi,
I guess I am a little naive, I just don't understand why you think licensing won't help. If this stops these idiots from moving on to the next person and the next and the next, then it makes sense. It puts them out of business, "oh, you don't have a valid license, guess you can't work for me" or "Hello, licensing board, can you tell me if this gentleman's license has any complaints against it or if it is in good standing". My husband is an oil burner tech. They are licensed and you hear very few horror stories. However, when I go into the break room at my work, I tell my story and 5 people tell me similar stories, every break, every night something is seriously wrong. Most of the builders that we spoke with said they believe it is a good idea too. Their thoughts are that anyone with a hammer and a truck is saying they can build, building badly or running away with money so customers are now telling others not to build at all. They think it is a good idea, so why wouldn't you?

[Steve]

Greetings ifeelnothin, welcome to the forums!

First I'd like to say that we all feel horrible about your situation. It's a real shame that something like this can happen, and when it does there doesn't seem to be much you can do about it. I assume you've already looked into lawsuits against the various players, any luck there? Other than that, another avenue might be to draw media attention to the problem (which you are already doing with the website).

Regarding builder licensing, do you suppose it would "feel better" if you were one of the first or second people to get ripped off? I'm pretty sure it would be no consolation if you were scammed by a "new" builder and then you got his license revoked. You would still be out the money, and the builder can just declare bankruptcy and start a new corporation to do business with. He probably won't even have the decency to change his phone number when he switches corps.

Many other states have builder licensing (I would venture to guess most states) and there are still people who get ripped off by disreputable builders. Our website has links to dozens of such log home horror stories (http://www.loghomebuilders.org/kit_log_homes_horror_stories.htm). And we only concentrate on log homes -- we don't even count the other construction types.

Licensing (in other states) simply has not solved the problem. The builder will simply close up one shop and start another, and continue to rip people off. If the license is for an individual (as opposed to the corporation), the builder's next company will sign up the builder's spouse for a license. Then their children. Then their cousins. You get the idea.

Unfortunately I suspect that the only way to have prevented your situation would have been to hire a reputable real estate attorney to find all the "gotchas" in the contract (such as unloading the 18 wheeler). In addition they would have been able to make sure that there was someone to sue if various performance guarantees were not met. Perhaps you could also have gotten a performance bond posted on the project, so if it was not completed, you get to keep the bond money. Just some thoughts. I recognize that hindsight is always 20/20, and it's of little consequence now.

I understand that you feel the need to do something about what happened to you, I just don't think builder licensing will solve the problem. Maybe you can approach the problem with a fresh mind and come up with a solution that would better prevent situations like yours in the future?

Best of luck with the project. :(

Steve

[JeffandSara]

Hello, Ifeelnothin--

In this and other groups we've heard horrible stories like yours, and I'm all for folks like you speaking out, starting the website, looking for potential safeguards for others, etc. I know in your position, I would feel like I had to try to do SOMETHING. I don't know what good you can do or satisfaction you can receive in this situation, but I wish you well.

Even though we've had plenty of problems working with the few *reputable* electricians, plumbers, etc. we've used to help finish our house-- and the accompanying delays and snafus and frustrations and overages-- it's hard to imagine what you folks have gone through, being cheated by multiple builders and left with what's complete of your dream home sitting roofless. It has to be truly heartbreaking. :cry:

Hang in there.

Sara

[hawkiye]

Ifeelnothin,

I am really sorry this happened to you sincerely. One of the reasons I wrote what did about licensing was because I was a masonry contractor for 20 years. I often worked as a subcontractor for general contractors and I had many problems with them and they were all licensed. The licensing board was little more then a revenue collector for licensing fees. They're not set up to police and when a complaint is made they get their say also and will lie etc. just like they did to the customer and the complaintant rarely follows up. And if you think the licensing board is just going to shut them down just like that it doesn't work that way. Others have elaborated on this so I won't belabor the point.

I can certainly understand why you feel the way you do and your frustration etc. hence the need to try and do something.

As for doing ones homework it sounds like you did yours but still got ripped off, sometimes you just can't prevent it. However I have seen many people not do anything but listen to the salesman and then buy then complain because the licensing board had not shut these folks down even after a string of complaints or as others have mentioned they have just changed names etc.

Anyway again sorry this happend to you and I am glad your doing what you can to get the word out about these builders. Best of luck to you and hope things turn for the better!

Blayne

[KakarotMF]

My father is a the owner of a plumbing contracting company. He takes pride in his work, but it's not because he fears the government. It's because of his character. I don't believe the government has the power to instil character in people. It tried to on a national level with Prohibition and failed miserably. There are too many other examples to list.

Blayne is right: the licensing board doesn't just shut a business down that easily. You mentioned that the licensing board could keep a list of complaints on record. An organization already exists to do that: the Better Business Bureau, www.bbb.com .

Also, in NC the government isn't responsible for any problems in your house, even if the inspector missed a gross error. I believe it's funny that I pay a person to inspect the house--he says it's OK and is wrong--and I can't hold him liable?!? Heck, I don't even get my money (permit fee) back :evil:

It can always be hard to find a good tradesman. Unlike a bad experience with a mechanic, a house purchase/erection might be a once in a lifetime choice in craftsman.

I believe you are doing exactly what you should be doing: telling everyone you can. If more people did what you're doing, there would be less of these problems.

[KakarotMF]

I read this book a while ago. It's about a couple in Cleveland building a $350,000 home and the trouble they went through to get the situation fixed. It provides all the info from the initial call to the GC to the judge's verdict in the civil suit. The cold facts about what the courts will probably give you even when gross negligence is proved is scary.

Without giving away the ending (even though this isn't a Grisham novel) their main headache was placing the blame. Proving negligence was easy. They realized that the judge has to decide who is responsible. For them it was split between the architect, the GC, and someone else (maybe the developer?). Also, their lawyer told them that they had no real chance of getting back all their lawyer's fees and professional's fees (they had to call other builder's to get written bids on how much it would cost to repair).

If there's people out there who are hesitant about being your own GC, this book might scare you into it!

And They Built a Crooked House
by Ruth S. Martin
ISBN 1879653028
Amazon price: about $7

[mcdonis]

I think the starter of this thread may already know this but.....

On the "loghomereports.com" website they have started a forum and each builder has a section. People can post their storys of building from these companies. Someone has already asked a question about this company in question. You might want to go over there if you havent already and post your story their too.

http://www.loghomereports.com/

[nobleknight]

WOW!

WE JUST READ SOME MORE HORROR STORIES POSTED BY ELLSWORTH. WE ARE SICK TO OUR STOMACHS. WE CAN NOT BELIEVE OUR EYES. WE TOO ALMOST TOOK THE BAIT FROM THE 'KITSTERS'. MY WIFE AND I ARE THANKFULL FOR THE CLASS. OUR LOG HOME WILL BE BEAUTIFUL AND CONSTRUCTED WITH OUR OWN HANDS AND VISION. WHEN YOU SEE A REAL LOG HOME, COMPARED TO A KIT HOME, YOU WILL JOIN THE LHBA, BUILD YOUR OWN HOME, AND NEVER LOOK AT A "LOG HOME MAGAZINE" AGAIN.

YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING POSTING YOUR STORY. YOU SHOULD ATTEND THE LOG SHOWS. RENT A BOOTH AND HAND OUT 'LITERATURE'. YOU SHOULD ALSO INVITE THE PRESS OUT FOR A REVIEW. MAKE THE SCUM PAY.

TOM AND CHRIS
CLASS 01-15-05

[gregorama]

I was shocked and saddened to read your story from start to finish last week; I kept calling my wife over to "LOOK AT THIS!" :shock: It kept me up that night, thankfully just one, unlike the many you have undoubtably had. I'm a specialty electrician, working exclusively in the commercial end, where the contracts are airtight, with liquidated damages and specific timetables and payment schedules. In Washington we have required bonding and insurance as well as licensing. Personally, I think it works to keep the fly-by-nighters at bay to some small extent. It takes more than a business card to get started building a house here. That said, it takes someone else to be the first fall guy and put a claim in. I always check out the BBB and Labor and Industries (http://www.lni.wa.gov/IPUB/625-084-000.pdf) when I'm dealing with someone. In WA, the bond is only $12,000, but it can get their attention earlier in the game when it's either show up or lose the bond, not so much if it's "rebuild my house" or lose the bond. As stated earlier, this would not be a problem if personal ethics were plentiful.

As a side note, I was at Barnes and Noble with the wife and kids today, and was perusing a log home mag (I forget which one) and there in the back was the man himself, Dave Gordon, of Katadihn (sp?)homes, headlined as "ECO HERO" in a two page spread, because he uses the tops of his trees to make, yes, birdhouses, and burns wood scraps to heat his plant. Well, that just makes your situation seem trivial and petty, by comparison, doesn't it? :evil: Hero, indeed. I proclaim myself a hero, because I use the whole diameter of the tree and mulch the bark!

I saw an advertisement for the Augusta show a couple of weeks ago; did you "attend" like you had spoken about? The Bangor Home is April 14-17; those are usually larger. You've already taken names, now is the time to kick ass...... 8)

I seem to have worked myself into quite a lather about this stuff; I hope I haven't overstepped or anything. Again, I'm so sorry this has happened to you. I have shoveled 18" of snow off a kitchen floor before, and it's not a fun feeling. Hang in there, and we look forward to better news.

Greg

[ifeelnothin]

Hi,
Thanks for writing and sorry it took so long to get back to you. We have lost another builder - he had a "bad feeling". Too bad he didn't have it in January when he agreed to build our home with his eyes totally opened. He knew everything and a week ago said he just couldn't do it. A man of integrity I was told by his references. Hard to believe that!!
So we are doing it ourselves. We have decided that we are as smart as any of those people and at least we show up and don't lie!! The website we have will be updated this week with pics. Rick has done the most beautiful cuts - best cuts in the house. WE ARE SOOOOO PROUD!!! It will be done better and with more care than anyone we will ever trust again! EVER! So sorry we kept you awake, don't worry about us, we are fine!
Bear with us - we will get through it. AND thanks for all the good thoughts.
Debra

[JeffandSara]

SHEESH, Debra! Unbelievable.

But glad that you have a new plan and making progress. Some things are HARD to do yourself, but you're right... you care, you're there to work on it, and you know you'll do your "best" anyway!

Good luck, and work very safely!

Sara :D