Persimmon logs

[MonkeyGirl]

Hey Everyone,

I may have the opportunity to get dibs on a fair number of persimmon trees (not real sure how many or how big but they sound as if they are pretty good size). I know a lot of people use pine for their homes but how would persimmon be. would it be too hard to work with? Or would I just need some extra muscle?

Still saving to be able to take a class,

MonkeyGirl

[Klapton]

Are they straight and have minimal taper? The main reason softwoods like pines and firs are preferred is because of this. When you look at them, can you imagine them being used for telephone poles?

Other than that, I don't know anything about this particular species. (Rot resistance, etc.)

[JD]

I've never seen any persimmon trees that were long and straight enough to build with. You should be able to use it for lumber.

[MonkeyGirl]

I have not been able to go and see these trees yet but if I could use them for lumber i may go ahead and put dibs on them. They don't have to be removed for a while yet so i can make plans for them as opposed to having to put them somewhere in a hurry.

[Shannonbeth]

Hey Everyone,

I may have the opportunity to get dibs on a fair number of persimmon trees (not real sure how many or how big but they sound as if they are pretty good size). I know a lot of people use pine for their homes but how would persimmon be. would it be too hard to work with? Or would I just need some extra muscle?

Still saving to be able to take a class,

MonkeyGirl
I found a little information on them. By looking at them i'm not sure you'd want to build with them, but lumber like other's have said should be alright!
http://www.trees-online.com/types_of_trees/persimmon.shtml

[greenthumb]

Well, I have a little experience working with persimmon, but only for firewood purposes. It burns great! (which doesn't disqualify it for a log home)

If you can find enough of them that are shaped like telephone poles, give it a go, but the way they grow in my neck of the woods, I'd be hard pressed to find any with the characteristics desired for an average sized log home. Now, I think it would probably be ok for cabinets or vanities, so read this:

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/AirDrying_Persimmon.html

I like the color of the wood(kind of a yellow-orange IIRC), but according to the experts, it can be hard to dry without warping(though hard to dry doesn't equal impossible to dry). It would make for some awesome looking cabinets though- very unique. Speaking of unique, I've been wanting to cut some dogwood for making a desk- we have a few left that might be big enough, and are dying slowly. It has a beautiful pink color, it would probably be bright red with a few coats of lacquer.

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Yes get it.
Get all you can.
Have it sawn into boards, coat the ends, stack, sticker, and bind while it dries.
Were you thinking of selling some of it?

Persimmon is a Diosporos...an ebony. It is known as
the North American, or white ebony. Diosporos Virginiana.
There are something like sixty plus varieties of the Diosporos.
They range from Gaboon (Gabon) which is jet black and sometimes
has small white veins running through it to Persimmon which is
yellow to white. AAAto AAAAA grade quarter sawn Gaboon ebony
is almost impossible to find. Sometimes available from cello suppliers,
but amazingly the suppliers of guitar wood never seem to have it.
It's always flat sawn. I have a lot of ebony fretboards that were
seconds. At $7 each they work just fine but a quartersawn fingerboard
for a cello can be ten to fifteen times that price. Jimmy D'Aquisto would
use cello woods and German spruce for his guitars. His material costs
were probably higher than the retail price of my guitars. BTW... forget
stocks, bonds, and maybe even precious metals. Buy a D'Aquisto. A
dozen years ago (before his sudden death) the highest priced guitars
were thirty thousand dollars. Now a D'Aquisto (early model, dull, bland,
abused) might bring fifty thousand. The top of the line...well, if you have
to ask....


-Rick

[greenthumb]

Sooo.... Rick, would building cabinets out of it be a waste? I'll keep an eye out for it as I come across it from time to time in my line of work. Only once have I come across enough to get quite a bit of firewood from it though.

[ChainsawGrandpa]

I have a Persimmon cane (was my grandfathers). I think it
would make beautiful doors. Might go with solid panel doors
though. You will want a light compression rod in the doors
since you will see some twisting on the panels.

Now you've done it! I was almost through my ten-step plan
in Wood-hoarders Anonymous. Gotta go buy some Persimmon...
a few thousand board feet should be enough for starters....

-Rick

[MonkeyGirl]

If it's that good i'll go ahead and speak up for it, if it is still there that is. We had several tornados pass by us last night, a lot of trees were uprooted and many, many homes were badly damaged (we were lucky though, we live in a valley and the tornados jumped us). I haven't been able to talk to my friend yet but right now there are a lot of other things that take precidence.

Cheers

[Basil]

Back when golf club "woods" were made of wood, persimon was a favorite due to its hardness. I seriously doubt these trees would have the growth characteristics needed to build a log home, but for god's sake get them. Free is a really good price and it will be beautiful as lumber.

[Lawrence Berndt]

Dear Monkey Girl,
What happened with your persimmon log deal. We would be interested in purchasing these logs from you and also holly logs. Thanks, Lawrence

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Well, I too would love to buy some of that!

-Rick

[greenthumb]

Rick, looking for American Holly? What dimensions? I come across some on a rare occasion in my line of work... when I get my sawmill setup I might could mill some... though it might be cost prohibitive to ship it to you depending on how much and the dimensions. I did cut some american and yaupon(IIRC) for a wood turner friend some time ago.

[ijinman]

I have noticed that some of you really know your woods. Question...How about sweetgum??? Yes I know it warps grotesquely when lumbered. But what if you lagged it together when still green?? Would this be good enough to use for a log home? We have thousands on our land that are 60' to 90' tall which would require minimal delimbing and they have minimal taper and they're straight. Amy thoughts???

THanks,

[greenthumb]

Hey Joy,

Here's a thread that discusses it in more detail.

http://loghomebuilders.org/sweet-gum

I've rethought my opinion on sweetgum and would be willing to try it on a shed or wellhouse for a few years before building a house if that is all you have available. The grain structure of sweetgum is very twisty and will give a log splitter a workout if you're using it for firewood. There are some techniques discussed in the members section that might help keep door and window openings aligned- build the walls while green and cut the openings before they have a chance to dry and twist- then insert some extra reinforcement. I'm not sure how sweetgum would work for structural elements beyond just the walls- ridgepole supports, ridgepole, rafters, joists, etc. I don't recall ever seeing a span table for sweetgum. Maybe someone will chime in with more information. Once dry it does seem fairly solid.


edit: Just found something about sweetgum that is new to me:
http://swst.metapress.com/content/uw066565v02025j3/
http://msucares.com/news/print/fwnews/fw06/061012.html
http://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/pubs/106

[Timber]

Sweetgum, I never heard of it. I think i will be using Eatern White Pine - one of the best logs you can use-no twist. Best price i have found so far is $5.5 per lineal foot-that is in the middle range of retail wholesale-but these are good logs up to 50 feet 10-12 tops

[spiralsands]

Sweetgum is very aromatic when it's aging but never try to smoke food with it or use it to cook with. It gives food a very bitter flavor. I know it's not on topic for building but I figured if someone here has sweetgum, they should avoid making the same mistake I did and ruin perfectly good ribs.

[ijinman]

Thanks for your replies!

Sweetgum is not all we have. We have lots of suitable pine (probably southern yellow), ash, red white & pin oaks, and actually quite a bit of good cedar (saved for interior), along with a few other native hardwoods. It's just that we do have a lot of sweetgum and I just don't know what to do with it...thought it might be a viable option. Just wasn't sure if sweetgum was a viable option related to the cross grain. Guess we could go into the railroad tie buisiness...lol. I have suggested to my husband that we do a test as y'all sugessted. Build a shed or well house or something out of it to see how it does.

Never thought about cooking with it though...good thing I've been informed!! :) Sorry about your ribs.

THanks for the links!!

HAve a great day!!! :)

[greenthumb]

A side note regarding sweetgum(Liquidambar styraciflua- say that 10 times fast). A lot of folks confuse it with red maple. I see them growing together often. A good way to tell on young plants where none of the infamous poky little balls are present is to crush some of the leaves. Sweetgum tend to have a strong perfumey smell, red maple just have a regular leafy scent.

[MonkeyGirl]

Unfourtnately the persimmon trees were destroyed by the tornados (tops ripped off and trunks splintered and twisted) and then burned to get them out of the way so repairs could be done. My friends lost their roof but didn't have too much other damage other than they have almost no trees left on their property. They put on a nice metal roof and actually got to build onto their house before the roof went on. A nightmare at the time but it has worked out okay in the end.