Norway (Red) Pine or Yellow Pine?

[Shannonbeth]

Norway Pine (red pine) Or Yellow Pine-
Which one is better? A friend of mine has both and has offered me to take some off his land, but i don't know if i should just take one kind, or both? What's ur advice?
Ain't red a soft wood and yellow a harder one?

[adubar]

Hi ShannonbethView Track,

In the class you will discover that the best advice for log sourcing is use what you can get or if you have logs, simply use what you have.

You can mix species.

A few of the other members may chime in. There are several different strategies for using mixed species. It all depends upon what sizes and lengths of logs you end up with.

First, you figure your sizes and then the characteristics of each type of log. Species that tend to be heavier would probably do better in the lower parts of your walls. Species that have favorable strength characteristics would be put to good use in support beams, support poles or milled for joists & etc.

Some thought to the ?visual appeal? of log color should be brought into the equation when deciding how to stack (if both species have the same relative size, length and weight). If one dries to a lighter color than the other, you might consider how that would look in the walls and consider ways to stacking them to maximize visual appeal ?rather than leave it to chance.



-Andrew

[Shannonbeth]

Hi ShannonbethView Track,

In the class you will discover that the best advice for log sourcing is use what you can get or if you have logs, simply use what you have.

You can mix species.

A few of the other members may chime in. There are several different strategies for using mixed species. It all depends upon what sizes and lengths of logs you end up with.

First, you figure your sizes and then the characteristics of each type of log. Species that tend to be heavier would probably do better in the lower parts of your walls. Species that have favorable strength characteristics would be put to good use in support beams, support poles or milled for joists & etc.

Some thought to the ?visual appeal? of log color should be brought into the equation when deciding how to stack (if both species have the same relative size, length and weight). If one dries to a lighter color than the other, you might consider how that would look in the walls and consider ways to stacking them to maximize visual appeal ?rather than leave it to chance.



-Andrew



Thank you for responding! I do not plan on starting anything till i get into the class, however if i am being offered wood, i feel i would be stupid to pass it up? Just put it aside and wait till i can get into the class.
I do have one more question. Is there something i should do with it after it's cut down? I mean if it's just going to be sittin for a while i don't want anything to happen to it. Should i just stack it, or do i need it to dry or something?

[Klapton]

Take two of the crappiest logs to be your log rack. Put the others on this rack, perpendicular to your sacrificial rack logs. Roll the logs every few weeks or so (every week or two for the first month or two, less often as more time goes by) so they don't bow.

[Shannonbeth]

Thanks for the help!

[Shark]

Good advice above, as well, be sure to get the bark pealed off. Otherwise you'll likely get bugs & other bad stuff happening under there once they're cut down.

[Shannonbeth]

Good advice above, as well, be sure to get the bark pealed off. Otherwise you'll likely get bugs & other bad stuff happening under there once they're cut down.
Do i need to treat them with anything?? Is there something i can put on them to keep that from happening?
I just called my friend and he has about 85 trees he needs out. They're about 45 to 60 feet tall and seem to average about 14" Diameter, is that good?

[Klapton]

!4" is a good diameter. (Though you didn't specify small or big end). 12" minimum small end or larger is ideal for better R-Value in your walls, and fewer courses required to reach your desired log height.

Once a log is peeled, you want to spray it with a Borate solution. There's a recipe thread in the member's section for homebrewing your own to save money, but there are also products available commercially. "Timbor" is one brand name that comes to mind. Others might have other recommendations. You could also just google "Borate log treatment" or something like that.

[hemlock77]

I found a wood characteristics site. http://www.diadot.com/wood/ I didn't see a listing for the red pine(pinus resinosa). Most of our logs are red pine wich is moderatly decay resistant, it is a fairly hard wood as far as pines go, for an eastern species it has little taper.
Stu
http://www.diadot.com/wood/

[Shannonbeth]

I found some information on the red pine. http://ostermiller.org/tree/redpine.html

[Timberwolf]

As far as straight, long and minimal taper, in eastern Canada, Red Pine is king. Despite what is written in places, experience has shown me that it is rot resistant. (I know someone who built a septic tank out of it). Think in board form it would be more rot susceptable, but not in log form, it has a lot of resin (natural decay fighter). All of our telephone poles up here are red pine, they last for years, even untreated. Lots of log homes built from them too. My first choice. The only downfall will be cost, but that's the case for all logs up here. Hoping this weekends class will give me some ideas for cutting that down.

Can't say much about yellow pine (southern yellow?) other than what I've read. I know it's fast growing, Enertia uses it in their homes and it grows really fast so is more sustainable than red pine (perhaps).

If you can get either for cheap, definately. Figure how many you need and see what you can get. Walk up to them, look at them, hell, talk to them. They'll tell you which one of them you should use.

and no I'm not nuts for talking to trees.

Jason.

[Shannonbeth]

As far as straight, long and minimal taper, in eastern Canada, Red Pine is king. Despite what is written in places, experience has shown me that it is rot resistant. (I know someone who built a septic tank out of it). Think in board form it would be more rot susceptable, but not in log form, it has a lot of resin (natural decay fighter). All of our telephone poles up here are red pine, they last for years, even untreated. Lots of log homes built from them too. My first choice. The only downfall will be cost, but that's the case for all logs up here. Hoping this weekends class will give me some ideas for cutting that down.

Can't say much about yellow pine (southern yellow?) other than what I've read. I know it's fast growing, Enertia uses it in their homes and it grows really fast so is more sustainable than red pine (perhaps).

If you can get either for cheap, definately. Figure how many you need and see what you can get. Walk up to them, look at them, hell, talk to them. They'll tell you which one of them you should use.

and no I'm not nuts for talking to trees.

Jason.
I have a friend that has about 85 red pines he's going to let me cut and take. I will obviously need more over time, but its a start and i have to get into the class yet anyway, just figured if i can start collecting right now i'm going too because after the class i want to start as soon as possible, so might as well start cutting costs as well. I believe my grandpa also has a lot of red pines on his 50 acre land, so i'm sure he will let me cut some of them also.

[Shannonbeth]

I have been looking up borates and stuff to treat the logs, man it's not cheap! What are the odds of someone sharing with me a cheap way to treat these logs? Since i'm a student and not working right now i am far from rich and i really don't want the logs to go to waste. I have about 85 of them to treat and that would get way too expensive.

[adubar]

Actually, you should look for do-it-yourself recipes. The raw materials to make your own solutions can be found on the cheap if you look hard enough--often used in applications other than log treatments.

One thing to keep in mind that materials of relative worth and prices depending upon the market they are used in.

When sourcing materials and components, look at all industries that might use it and try buying in the one where the value/price is lowest.

An example I can give you is that "anti-freeze" like the kind you might use in a car is one aditive used in many do-it-yourself solutions to deter bug and rot infestations in wood (it should be used in conjuntion with borates). Look hard enough and you an find gallons of the stuff, probably for free (there are other threads on the site that speak specifically to certain popular home-made log treatments). You can get bulk borate at a good cost if you source well.

But, take a look in materials/products intended for the "log building" industry and you will pay top dollar for a "formulated" product that costs more than your logs!!!!


Best of luck!


-Andrew

[rocklock]

I believe all the borates recipes are on the members side...

[patrickandbianca]

If you have a choice then I would wait to cut the trees until your ready for them. If you cant wait, then I would get the trees and begin peeling them while your waiting for a class and use some commercial borate treatment until you can get into the members section and look up the home made borate solution. It may take several months to get 85 logs peeled, so you dont have to buy enough borate for all 85 logs at the same time.

P.S.
If you have logs lined up you are way farther along than I am, even though you havent taken the class.

[Shannonbeth]

My friend wants them off his property with in a month, so if i don't take them he will have a logger come in and do it, well 85 free logs would be stupid to pass up! So i guess i better just do what i need to do and get them.

[Shannonbeth]

Is this a good price for the product?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Tim-bor-Insecticide-Fungicide-25lb-Pail-Timbor_W0QQitemZ190156859077QQihZ009QQcategoryZ755 82QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l124 7QQcmdZViewItem

[Shark]

Is this a good price for the product?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Tim-bor-Insecticide-Fungicide-25lb-Pail-Timbor_W0QQitemZ190156859077QQihZ009QQcategoryZ755 82QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l124 7QQcmdZViewItem


That's the same stuff I used, try www.lesco.com if there's a store in your area it'll save you the shipping & still cheaper than that price.
Enjoy.

[Timber]

How many days has it taken to build your home? Do you remember how many days to stack the 4 walls/ and get it in the dry?(roof on) Just curious -was wondering how long it would take me. I want to use equipment to lift logs-much quicker.

Ron

[GENE13]

Norway Pine (red pine) Or Yellow Pine-
Which one is better? A friend of mine has both and has offered me to take some off his land, but i don't know if i should just take one kind, or both? What's ur advice?
Ain't red a soft wood and yellow a harder one?


Shannonbeth, the term Yellow Pine can refer to several different types of pine, the Red Pine however isn't in that group.
The Shear Parallel to Grain, Max Shear Strength of what you may refer to as Yellow Pine is greater than Red Pine.
They both are considered soft woods, but you're right, Yellow is harder. :-)

[Shannonbeth]

How many days has it taken to build your home? Do you remember how many days to stack the 4 walls/ and get it in the dry?(roof on) Just curious -was wondering how long it would take me. I want to use equipment to lift logs-much quicker.

Ron
I've not built anything yet hun! I assume u were asking me? If not im sorry. I was just offered some wood, so i don't want to pass it up, all it's costing me is gas to haul it. I am still waitin to get into the class.

[Shark]

How many days has it taken to build your home? Do you remember how many days to stack the 4 walls/ and get it in the dry?(roof on) Just curious -was wondering how long it would take me. I want to use equipment to lift logs-much quicker.

Ron

Hello Ron,

We planned, collected material, & planned some more for about 1.5 years after I took the course. Got out building permit in Aug 07.
Did foundation ourselves (except for digging of course) & was done by Sept.
Had logs delivered for last week of Sept, & then I took all of October off. It took me 31 days to stack 103 logs. (weekends with help, weekdays by myself.)
We cheated & hired out the roof, took the crew a bit over 3 weeks to complete that.
Since then, we've been only working weekends so things slow down a bit but not too bad.

Hope that helps.
Jeff

[Timber]

Not a bad deal--gas The truckers went on strike because of gas prices! The oil people are greedy! If the farmers had a program like the oil people-We would see what is more important food or gas-make them eat there oil--please dont get me started--haha
no I was talking to shark about that log home he is building--thanks though

Ron

[Timber]

YEA that helps-I was planning on doing about the same-take time off and do it.
What type foundation did you go with Jeff?

Ron

[Shannonbeth]

Not a bad deal--gas The truckers went on strike because of gas prices! The oil people are greedy! If the farmers had a program like the oil people-We would see what is more important food or gas-make them eat there oil--please dont get me started--haha
no I was talking to shark about that log home he is building--thanks though

Ron



My dad's a truck driver, so i might not have to pay him! I have a lot of diff advantages when it comes to building this home!

[Timber]

Dont know when I will take the class-hopefully soon--I will go out on a limb and say maybe they will have 1 more early this year??!!

[Shannonbeth]

Dont know when I will take the class-hopefully soon--I will go out on a limb and say maybe they will have 1 more early this year??!!
That would be awesome, i would love it!

[Upers]

Shark,

I am thinking of cheating somewhat too on the roof... If you don't mind sharing, I would appreciated understanding
how much $ to get the roof done.

Yoopers Pat

[adubar]

I did a quick search while not logged in and Rocklock is correct, it looks like recipe threads are not on the public side.

Google for home made wood preservative or do it yourself timber/log preservatives and you should come up with a few posted recipes.

There are a few sites that even discuss new formulations for things like telephone poles and railroad ties resulting from EPA concerns over creosote.

There is quite a bit of informaiton on the net if you look.

-Andrew

[Shark]

Ron,
We did a continuous footer (rebar reinforced) with sonotube "piers". was the cheapest way & simplest so we could do it ourselves.

Upers,
shoot me an e-mail jeff.wourms AT irdinc.com

[wwlivin]

Shannonbeth, if you will send me your email address I will send you an article on homemade borate treatment formulas for logs. The formulas are easy to make and has been tested by Texas A&M and Miss. State Univ. Forestry Depts, if I remember correctly. Also printed in several magazines, the article I will send is an article from Classicboat mag. My email address is wwliving@bellsouth.net. wayne

[Timber]

Jeff What size did you build your home/what type logs? How much footage on second floor?
thanks

Ron

[Shark]

Jeff What size did you build your home/what type logs? How much footage on second floor?
thanks

Ron

30x30, red pine average 12" butts (next time I will go with larger logs), and a bit over 3/4 second floor, so about 700SF or so.
Will also squeeze in a 1/2 loft in back roof area for another few hundred SF.

[Upers]

Has anyone used Red pine and not treated them at all and have
success with decay resistance?

It looks like they will be easier to get then the white pine I desire...

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Yoopers Pat

[Timberwolf]

Using red pine, even if you don't treat them, your children's children will likely be long gone before anyone has to worry about those logs.