Skeptics really know how to make a person feel

[Shannonbeth]

So i was talking to my dad about this class and what i want to do.
His exact words to me were "You're living in a fantasy, time to come back to reality, it will never happen."
When people tell me stuff like that it makes me really upset, i just told him "We'll see".
I think my Fiance thinks i'm nuts too, but he don't dare say it to my face.
The sooner they get another class scheduled and the sooner i can get in it, the better off i will be.
I know i can do this and if they don't want to believe in me and back me up, they will be the ones sitting in the dark saying "She was right".
Haha, if my soon to be hubby don't get it together ,he will have to build a mud hut on the property and live in there....lol

[JD]

It's not so bad hearing that kind of skepticism from strangers or aquaintances. When it comes from close friends or family it can be pretty discouraging. You seem to be reacting positively though. Just try to remember that, in most cases, our family members react the way they do in an attempt to protect us from what they perceive as a big mistake. Unfortunately, some folks aren't very tactfull sometimes.
Is your fiance attending the class with you? Every couple who has attended together will tell you that they're glad they did. It's the best way to make sure you're both on the same page and answer any questions/dispell any fears he has about the process. My wife didn't attend with me due to work schedule conflicts but I wish she had. I did take my son though.
Stay positive and don't be discouraged by those who say "It can't be done".

JD

[Shannonbeth]

It's not so bad hearing that kind of skepticism from strangers or aquaintances. When it comes from close friends or family it can be pretty discouraging. You seem to be reacting positively though. Just try to remember that, in most cases, our family members react the way they do in an attempt to protect us from what they perceive as a big mistake. Unfortunately, some folks aren't very tactfull sometimes.
Is your fiance attending the class with you? Every couple who has attended together will tell you that they're glad they did. It's the best way to make sure you're both on the same page and answer any questions/dispell any fears he has about the process. My wife didn't attend with me due to work schedule conflicts but I wish she had. I did take my son though.
Stay positive and don't be discouraged by those who say "It can't be done".

JD

I want him to attend with me, but as of right now he's an over the road truck driver, so i'm not sure if his schedule will work or not. I guess when i find out when the next classes are i will see if he can get a few day's off of work to come with me. Would be nice to have him there so we can do it together and help eachother.

[suprgrl]

The last time someone told me I couldn't do something was when I was in high school. This family member said that I'd never go to college and even if I did I'd just fail out the first year. Two college degrees and letters from the Dean's List congratulating me on my GPA were the result from that conversation.

I LOVE it when people (family or otherwise) tell me I can't do something. That is the best motivator I've ever encountered.

Suprgrl...

[Shannonbeth]

That's cool! I am the same way, when they tell me i can't do something, it pushes me even more.

[Klapton]

When I found this site, I was skeptical as well. I emailed my brother-in-law, who has extensive construction experience, and asked his opinion. He said that everything he saw about the construction method is sound. He warned me, however, that if I REALLY planned on doing this myself, that it would be HARD WORK. He is correct, of course. Just because the butt and pass method is "simple" (i.e. you don't have to have tons of experience or skill to do it), it's still a LOT of hard work.

The next question Donna and I had was whether or not WE were up to the task. We decided that it would be worth spending the money to fly out and take the course to answer this question. (Also note that there is a 100%, no-questions-asked satisfaction guarantee on the course. If we were not satisfied, we would have wasted a weekend, and airfare, but we could have got our money back for the course.)

We were completely satisfied, and it did indeed answer our question -- can WE do this? Yes, we can. Among the many things they teach in the course are some things that make the process even easier (easier on the back, anyway, hehe.) There are tools and methods that can be used to make it much easier for someone who is not physically strong to get it done. We have members who have built homes, who you would not expect to be able to do it: men age 60+, small women in the 120 lb. range, etc.

Building a log home yourself will take great determination and hard work. Make no mistake about it. But it CAN be done, and can be done for MUCH less than paying someone else to build a conventional home for you (with proper planning, and reasonable expectations of interior luxury, of course). And the home you will have at the end will be vastly superior, both asthetically, and structurally.

But I STRONGLY suggest that both of you take the class. Both partners need to believe in the project. And your family is WAY more important than the home your family lives in. It's not worth having conflict and strife because you don't agree. Just remind him about the money-back guarantee. If he's not satisfied that it was worth the money, you get your money back, plain and simple.

[Shannonbeth]

When I found this site, I was skeptical as well. I emailed my brother-in-law, who has extensive construction experience, and asked his opinion. He said that everything he saw about the construction method is sound. He warned me, however, that if I REALLY planned on doing this myself, that it would be HARD WORK. He is correct, of course. Just because the butt and pass method is "simple" (i.e. you don't have to have tons of experience or skill to do it), it's still a LOT of hard work.

The next question Donna and I had was whether or not WE were up to the task. We decided that it would be worth spending the money to fly out and take the course to answer this question. (Also note that there is a 100%, no-questions-asked satisfaction guarantee on the course. If we were not satisfied, we would have wasted a weekend, and airfare, but we could have got our money back for the course.)

We were completely satisfied, and it did indeed answer our question -- can WE do this? Yes, we can. Among the many things they teach in the course are some things that make the process even easier (easier on the back, anyway, hehe.) There are tools and methods that can be used to make it much easier for someone who is not physically strong to get it done. We have members who have built homes, who you would not expect to be able to do it: men age 60+, small women in the 120 lb. range, etc.

Building a log home yourself will take great determination and hard work. Make no mistake about it. But it CAN be done, and can be done for MUCH less than paying someone else to build a conventional home for you (with proper planning, and reasonable expectations of interior luxury, of course). And the home you will have at the end will be vastly superior, both asthetically, and structurally.

But I STRONGLY suggest that both of you take the class. Both partners need to believe in the project. And your family is WAY more important than the home your family lives in. It's not worth having conflict and strife because you don't agree. Just remind him about the money-back guarantee. If he's not satisfied that it was worth the money, you get your money back, plain and simple.

Thanks, i will have him read some of this when he stops home for a lil bit today before taking off again. I appreciate everyone's help on here!

[rreidnauer]

Shannon, sounds all too familiar. You can be sure you're not the first to meet such pessimism only to prove them all wrong. Been a few years, but there was a thread very similar to your own: http://loghomebuilders.org/family-and-friends-resistance-ignorance-about-log-homes Hang on to your beliefs. There's no need to follow the rest of the lemmings over the cliff. ;-)

[lbrowne]

Building a log home yourself will take great determination and hard work. Make no mistake about it. But it CAN be done, and can be done for MUCH less than paying someone else to build a conventional home for you (with proper planning, and reasonable expectations of interior luxury, of course). And the home you will have at the end will be vastly superior, both asthetically, and structurally.


I know log would have the asthetics and structual integrity, but how about frame vs log for cost of building either one yourself? With all other factors being equal (plans/plumbing/wiring/flooring/etc) the biggest cost factor, of course, is the logs and how much they might be acquired for. I do believe log can be built for much less than frame, but getting the numbers down on both is going to take some work.

[lbrowne]

Hi Rod,

I'm getting an Acess denied error on that link - it must be for members only. :(

~ Linda

[Shannonbeth]

Hi Rod,

I'm getting an Acess denied error on that link - it must be for members only. :(

~ Linda
I would assume so, i get the same thing

[JD]

Yep, it's in the member's section.

[Klapton]

Building a log home yourself will take great determination and hard work. Make no mistake about it. But it CAN be done, and can be done for MUCH less than paying someone else to build a conventional home for you (with proper planning, and reasonable expectations of interior luxury, of course). And the home you will have at the end will be vastly superior, both asthetically, and structurally.


I know log would have the asthetics and structual integrity, but how about frame vs log for cost of building either one yourself? With all other factors being equal (plans/plumbing/wiring/flooring/etc) the biggest cost factor, of course, is the logs and how much they might be acquired for. I do believe log can be built for much less than frame, but getting the numbers down on both is going to take some work.
Honestly I couldn't tell you how stick-framed vs. BnP log home would compare when a person is doing 100% of the work themselves. It would indeed depend pretty much on the availability and cost of getting your logs. For me, there's no question about the quality though. So even if I did end up spending more on my logs than I would like, I'd still rather have a log home.

Most folks will tell you that your roof will be the most expensive part of the house. That's partly because most folks go for metal roofing, so the roof will last forever like everything else in the house, hehe.

[akemt]

Here's something about cost...I agree completely with the other threads that say you can save 50% to 75%. When we were looking at building next door to our house that is currently on the market (we just moved ahead of the sale --it is stick-built) I did a lot of calculating.

1. Our current stick-built prices (house only here, not including land or land work) were running about $110 for lower-end construction completed by others.
2. If I did the work myself, according to what we spent on our addition that we did ourselves, we'd spend roughly $40/sq ft buying new materials from the store, etc.

If I started my calculations from the log home size I'd build (3,400 sq ft at the time), to get the same square footage with option 1, I'd be paying more than $375,000 just to start with...and the quality, "home feel" and layout would be completely different.

Using option 2, I'd be paying about $136,000 for the stick-built materials alone...and that labor would be CRAZY and take us forever on the finishing work.

Using the LHBA method and logs, I'd be paying about $160,000 for the same level of finish work but MUCH sturdier and nicer quality...and that is using an astronomical log quote I got of $80,000. I figured, might as well go with the highest and then I knew I could afford anything less, kwim? Also, once the exterior and certain aspects of the interior are finished (floor, some plumbing and kitchen, stairs, etc), we can take our time completing the rest and pay as we go. I've found log quotes (just an FYI) for my area that are less than a quarter of the quote I used above and could probably find better when the time comes to really start looking. I do also have a free option (okay, like $15 permit), but would then pay for barging/trucking costs and possibly a logger. Still should be nearly free, just more personal time and effort. So if I used THAT quote, we'd be in the $100,000 range compared to the $375,000 above. AND, I might have enough logs left over to get started on a garage or use for interior work.

Another way to look at it is to think of what your max cost is and go from there, but I don't have that stuff on the top of my head. And if you then compare by resale value, there is NO comparison at all. When building log, we'd instantly have TONS of equity.

I hope that made some sense...?

[RodneyG]

Shannon, I like this quote from the movie The Edge, "What One Man Can Do - Another Can Do". And of course what one woman can do another can do. There is a story about a woman who built a log home, when it burned down just as it was being weather coated - she built it again. Do a search on Mother Earth News, I can't remember her name. Very inspiring.

[rreidnauer]

Hi Rod,

I'm getting an Acess denied error on that link - it must be for members only. :(

~ Linda
Sorry about that.

[lbrowne]

Just waiting for another class to open up! Hopefully it won't be too long. :)

[greenthumb]

Here is a link to one of the articles on Dorothy Ainsworth, there are several more if you google them.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Homes/2004-04-01/Waitress-Builds-Fortress.aspx

She built her dream home... twice.

[Shannonbeth]

Here is a link to one of the articles on Dorothy Ainsworth, there are several more if you google them.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Homes/2004-04-01/Waitress-Builds-Fortress.aspx

She built her dream home... twice.
I have to finish reading it yet, but it's great so far!

[hemlock77]

I got a lot of negative input from friends and family at first. Now That things are coming along, thats all gone. The skepticism only motivated me even more. With enough drive and determination, anything can be accomplished.
Stu
http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u64/hemlock77/

[Shannonbeth]

I got a lot of negative input from friends and family at first. Now That things are coming along, thats all gone. The skepticism only motivated me even more. With enough drive and determination, anything can be accomplished.
Stu
http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u64/hemlock77/
I am still gettin that from my father ,but i guess i shouldn't expect anything different. I am just gonna get to the class as soon as i can and then get home and get started as soon as possible so i can show him i'm not retarded and it can be done!
My fiance will not be able to attend the class with me as i would have liked! He made a good points of who's gonig to watch the kids while were gone. can't exactly leave them alone...lol
But as long as i get to go, i can share some with him so he know's what he's doing and can help me!

[Will Dye]

I've always been the wild haired, black sheep, under achiever of my bunch but I have had FUN! I decided it was time to get serious and accomplish something. It wasn't long after that I ran across this web site and read for at least a couple of hours. I had made up my mind by then that this was an EXCELLENT design/concept/life choice. I was always capable of knowing what was right and what was "wrong" (meaning more interesting, dangerous or fun) and I usually chose what was wrong. LOL So you can imagine the flak I got from everybody that knows me...friends and family. I've been reading my post and paying attention and getting my hands dirty (thanks Basil) and now they are starting to come around. I'm going to let as few of my family and friends as possible see it until I get it built. I can't wait to walk them through my place when I finally let them see it. I plan to have a camcorder so I can play it back for them so they can see their slack jawed, oh my god reactions. It looks like things are coming together fast for me. I think I have a line on some land and some logs. I am NOT getting a loan so I will work like a fiend this summer and hopefully have a foundation to start putting logs on this winter. We'll see if it happens that way. One of the things that really motivated/teed me off was my aunt coming in from Florida and telling me I'll never have much and I should be happy just settle down (die) and work a 40 hour week job so I could pay my child support and have a little ol' roof over my head. I plan to bring that conversation back up to her in a couple of years. To quote the immortal Tweety Bird "she don't know me very well do she?" You keep at it and you'll make it happen!

[Shark]

In the past few years I've just stopped talking to people that were always negative.....much better now :)

Obviously if it's family being negative, all you can do is prove them wrong.

We got some weird looks when we decided to do this, but it's a great experience.

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Before I sold my Lake Wenatchee area property I had planned to build a small 1450' log
home for about $27,000. This was about fifteen years ago. A real estate agent said it
couldn't be done since my budget was just a little more than the cost of appliances for
a nice home. What kind of appliances does he buy?? Never did build that place but I do
believe I could have built at close to budget.

The new place doesn't even have the foundation installed yet and the $32,000 price is now
over $48,000. To me that is outrageous, but when compared to the cost of stick-framing
it's really not all that bad.

I like to hear that it can't be done. Just makes the doing all that much sweeter.

-Rick

[rckclmbr428]

But it is very true, "if you think building a log home is hard/ impossible, try paying off a 30 year mortgage" and if you still want to pay off a 30 mortgage instead, look at how much you will pay back in 30 years, vs. the $300K loan you took out. kinda makes me puke in my mouth thinking about it...

[dsmither]

For me the biggest skeptics have been the people I work with. They all love the look and feel of log homes, but think I?m crazy for wanting to build it myself. I?ve tried to explain it to them on many occasions, but can?t seem to make them understand. They are hung up on the physical labor required and the amount of time it?s going to take.

My family has been supportive. They?ve seen me succeed at many home improvement projects. They are concerned I?m taking on more than I can handle, but recognize the benefits, and believe I can pull it off in the end. It?s actually been fun getting input from them on the floor layout.
David

[Basil]

When I first started talking about it, the people that knew me well just left it alone. I've done too many things that people have told me I can't do. Those that said I couldn't do it were friends, just not close ones. Now that I'm doing the trim work, putting on finishes and painting, those people "can't remember" saying that I couldn't do it. Most of them have watched the progress and can't believe what one person can do.

[trucker]

Shannon, I don't know what kind of relationship you have with your father. But maybe if you ask HIM to go to the class with you he might get behind you and support you.
I have been an over the road trucker for many year's. My wife and I have five children. We could not have made it if we weren't like minded in our faith,goals and dreams. Our oldest son is twelve years old and our youngest daughter is two. I now have a driving job that gets me home every day , I've missed out on so so much.
If your boyfriend can't support this dream.........
Well, ...enough said.

[Shannonbeth]

My father and I have a pretty good relationship to be honest, i think he's just sick of having dreams and them being shot down or never accomplished and i understand that. I have had stuff before i've wanted to do and it's not happened.
I also think he's scared i might screw something up! I wasn't always the best kid, but i've grown up and feel my decision in building this home is a good one.
My fiance supports me, i did talk to him! So he's going to help as much as he can.
I talked to my kids about it, my Oldest is 10 and our youngest right now is 10 months and lucky me i am pregnant with #6 and due in November...lol
I think it will all work out in time! I have a feeling this will be one of those things where i can look at them and say "Told ya so!".

[slasher]

The things in life so often regretted are not our failures, but those things that we didn't even try... The ones that the opportunity was within in our grasp, but we didn't reach for it! Our greatest accomplishments are the ones that took our greatest amount of : courage (even to attempt it), determination to do it, fear to fail at it, effort to achieve it, and things we ourselves didn't know that we could do!

As a parent, I try to shield and protect my children from harm, and try to set them up for success! Yet, I hope that they seek out challenges and learn to meet them! Challenge is where growh comes frm! Staying in the comfort zone of the couch in the vinyl sided box is easy.... Yet fulfillment in life is attained through achievement...

I'm sure some have read this before, but I feel it is true in this instance as well... I do not want to push you to do anything which are unable to do... But I definitely believe that we have been so conditioned through education (now thats another subject...) and bombarded through marketing to believe that we can't do things better than buying the off the shelf product.... that most of us have fallen in line to go work, borrow, and spend- accepting what is offered, believing that we are doing the best we can... so I'll share this quote in opposition of the critics....

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better.
The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."


Theodore Roosevelt


"Citizenship in a Republic,"
Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910

[spiralsands]

[quote=hemlock77]My fiance will not be able to attend the class with me as i would have liked! He made a good points of who's gonig to watch the kids while were gone. can't exactly leave them alone...lol But as long as i get to go, i can share some with him so he know's what he's doing and can help me!

You can go to the first class that comes up and he can go to the next. I wish I could have brought my daughter with me so she could see what we were really planning to do. As it is, she is developing expectations about the house we're planning and doesn't understand why I am not considering her suggestions despite my attempts to educate her. So if you both go, even separately, you will both be on board.

(I don't know why this came up in "bold"!!)

[Shannonbeth]

I am just wondering, is it better to stick to one kind of wood when building or using different ones alright? Like i have offers to take red pine, evergreens, and also some colorado blue or black hills spruce.

[Klapton]

It was talked about in the class, but I forgot the specifics, because I don't forsee me having this situation. If I recall correctly (hopefully someone will post the 100% correct info), you should avoid mixing species in the same wall. In other words, you could have one wall spruce and another wall fir, and you'd be ok. Of course, you want your biggest, straightest, strongest logs for your Ridgpole and caplogs.

[JD]

Slasher, you hit the nail (or rebar) on the head. :-)