Reciprocal Roof

[Fyremare]

Hi!
Has anyone used or had any experience building a reciprocal roof with round logs? I have researched them a lot and really hope to use one on at least part of my dream home! If I can't find anyone who's actually done it, that I can actually talk to, then I will start playing with small models and then bigger ones till I'm confident for the big roof!
I find it a fascinating concept that I'm surprised hasn't caught on more. I live in New England and this year has been a whopper for snow load. This type of roof supposedly has no loadbearing problems. Any feedback, suggestions or experience from anyone?
Fyre

[RodneyG]

I plan on doing a reciprocal roof. You have probably looked at the same sites I have but in case not- yes round "poles" I'd call them rather than logs have been used and there is a site with a formula you are supposed to be able to put into a computor spread sheet and figure things out. Both of these sites come up with a google search. As a side note- I'm watching Ax Men and the guy said 5 loads of logs is worth $4,500.

[Klapton]

Pretty neat if your house is round. Building a round house with straight logs would be a really neat trick! lol.

I suppose a butt and pass with shorter logs done in an octagon would support such a roof.

For me, I'm going to stick with the simplicity of the "Skip style" butt and pass cube with a simple gable roof. I'll throw a shed roof on the side to cover the side porch to make the house look not so square.

[ponyboy]

You've probably seen this site if you have been looking for information about reciprocal roofs.

http://www.simondale.net/house/index.htm

[RodneyG]

Yes way cool Hobbit House. You can use a reciprocal roof on any shape house. The minimum number of beams is 3. So lets say you want to have 4 beams on a square house, one from each corner to the center. You could also use 8 beams one from each corner and one half way along the wall to the center. The cool thing about a reciprocal roof is there is no outward pressure on your walls. The weight of the roof is straight down, no blowing your walls outward.

[Fyremare]

Hey Rodney! I'm excited that you're planning on doing a reciprocal roof! Yes, I have the formula, I even printed it on paper in case my puter crashed somewhere along the trip to my dream. I want to see pictures and track your progress! Are those logs something you might use or was that just an FYI aside? Bet they're not Hemlock! He he he!

Klapton... I hope to have at least part of the house "round" if not the entire thing! Even looked into getting a Yurt... that roof fascinates me too, but when it got right down to it, I couldn't see myself spending the money on a good one and still feel like I was living in a tent. Considered strawbale... but as much work as logs will be... I think that would be messier... and prone to more damage here in New England. If not, I fear the upkeep! Maybe unfounded fear, but my love is wood... and stone.

Ponyboy, I've had that site on my desktop for a loooong time!!! LOL! It's a great one! I love the Hobbit house!!! Although as much as I'd like to live back to nature, and build green and all that, I am feeling like I want to integrate being on the grid with being self sustaining if I need to be. My first house in VT is still off the grid, the ex still lives that way. It was a different way of life to bring up a kid in, but we did it!

So to all of you I'm glad to know that others have taken a look at the beauty and strength of the reciprocal roof. I have planned out on paper an octagonal log home with an 8 log reciprocal roof. Tried to put it together with dowels for a model and failed miserably! (I WILL try again!)
When I look at the beauty of the Hobbit house roof though, I begin to wonder if using those craggly crooked ones would be more intriguing! Ahhhh, well... the dream has changed many times. I once thought I would have a cord wood home or nothing! Now... I am the one who asked about using hemlock.... because it is what I have the most of since the land was cut 3 years ago. The logger was a jerk and I wasn't there to supervise and the ex didn't either. Not a good idea. Anyway, there is slash down everywhere and if I think about it all too much I get really angry... what a mess and waste of good wood.

Anyway, I will pick up the pieces and move forward. I should have 4 acres of that littered property soon. Have chosen to make the best of it, and what I can't use for a home, hopefully I can use for landscaping or for keeping warm. That's why I have been thinking to mix stockade style and drop logs (shorter logs I can get plenty of right on the property, in many different species even), which to come back around to round... (grins) would work together or separately to go with some style of a reciprocal roof! (and a round house) Maybe a round living room? or spa??? yeah! that's it! LOL!

Sorry to be longwinded, but I know you all have the dreams too, and some of you have already built your dream. I still have a lot of questions, but have been trying to hold off with the newbie excitement! And I was hesitant because I have felt the lash of newbie excitemnt on other groups, and I'm glad it doesn't seem to be that way here. Thanks, and as I read more of your posts I will be more comfortable.

PS... Did you guys ever find out where the fiesty lady went that was going to take the class... had a jeep... and packed a gun? (grinning big time now!) Hey, even I would have liked to meet her! ;>)

[travelin01]

I don't know how common this shape is, but there is one built a couple hours away from me that must be 30 years old or
better by now. It was made of square beams, wonder if it isn't even a butt and pass style. Last couple of times I have
driven by I thought of stopping to ask questions just because it is unique and they should have a pretty good idea of
how to seal wood by now or have rot problems. There is absolutely no overhang what so ever. Very interesting house
to see as you drive by though.

[JohnnyCoho]

I am so sorry,... but I couldn't resist.... How to drive a Brit Crazy: Invite them into your round house and tell them tea will be served "promptly" in the corner.

[Fyremare]

There's one here in NH too, I drive by it once in a while. Although I think it's way older than the one by you. It looks like it's hand hewn logs. They decorate it up real nice for the Christmas holidays. Looks kinda funny plunked in the middle of the other houses in the city! I'm thinking a reciprocal roof would go pretty good on an octagonal log building, even if the roof isn't on the logs but resting on posts just inside the log walls, with the butt and pass corners on the outside of the posts. Might even be able to put the roof up first... just not sure how hard it would be to get that last log at the top!

[Klapton]

I'd put the posts about 3-4 feet outside the corners. You'd have an awesome wrap-around porch and REALLY protect your walls from moisture. It would look extremely cool too, hehe.

This has inspired me... I think I'm gonna try to do an octagonal design with my home design software... see how it looks!

[Fyremare]

Wrap around porch, that sounds awesome!!!!!!! This just keeps gettin' better! Let me know how the home design software digests it! (Burp!) I have one called PUNCH! Home design that is TRULY INTIMIDATING! I did get one floor plan worked out, after many hours.... but nothing like what you did with your trial version! Thanks for the idea!

[Loghomeguy]

as long as a B & P has an even number of sides, go for it, I have seen some cool octagons, once I built a home with 12 log sides and 16 lifter poles.

I took a time-lapse photo of the north star and circumpolar region at night thru the roof framing, I will try to find a copy and post on my photobucket but here is some of my work so far,,,


http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii68/loghomeguy12/

Mikey journeyman's class of 1988 weekender 1987

[GENE13]

In your photobucket, is that a picture of George Clooney, or is it Simon Cowell?? HEHE :-)

[spiralsands]

You're my new desktop background Mikey.

[gonehunting]

spiralsands looking at your pictures, was wondering what state you were in?

[GENE13]

Is your land in Fl ? Loved the pic's, so the cabin is going to set on the high ground over looking the pond, NICE !!!!

[spiralsands]

My 23.5 acres is in southwestern corner of the Adirondack mountain foothills of NY. I'm going to build on the knoll over the pond with my southern windows facing the pond and back pasture. I just drew up my first workable floor plan today based on a tradional Colonial style house I was familiar with.

[Klapton]

So, here's a picture of a quick, goofy design it just did. It has two stories of 20' walls, 6' overhang on the 4:12 roof. I threw in some doors and windows so it wouldn't look so goofy, and to give an idea of size. 20' walls gives about 1900 sq feet per floor.

http://www.LarrysLogCabin.com/Octagon.jpg

[Fyremare]

That's great Larry! Definitely gives me more options to ponder... looks very do-able! Looks good for just throwing it together!

[Loghomeguy]

Couple of comments, I would assume this will be a B & P? You will then have the log overhangs to deal with and they could interfere with window line-of-sight and/or garage door.

You may need to do something to strengthen the corners where the garage door is so close. We covered that quite a bit lately, you are looking at a 16-18 foot span over the garage door? For this I would bolt two horizontal header logs together vertically with 3/4" or even 1' TR every 18" O.C. . This creates a shear effect and adds much strength. I would consider elevated stem-walls on the first floor, keeping the first course up away from the ground.

The exterior vertical support logs are subject to weathering, especially at the base. I would use cantalever as much as possible with your rafters and consider pulling the vert. supports back in toward the building a bit also, I would consider sono-tube http://www.sonotube.com/ and pour both a footer and use the sonotube to elevate the base of the vertical support logs. This will greatly reduce weathering. You can then cover the sonotube with stone if you like.

From my own perspective,( this is not a criticism) I would use the lower floor as living space and build a separate garage. This might enhance the value of the building and remediate the potential for problems with the corners.

Living space is precious, and valuable, much more valuable then garage space, having a garage under your home will be costly in the fire protection that is required ( thicker drywall, fire doors etc etc.) It would also do away with the need to reinforce the corners where the garage door opening is close to them.


I think overall you have a really good start ! Cutting the logs in you will have some extreme angles, but no ridge pole per se, only a center support.

Since you will have several rafter type logs resting on top of the center support , it should be one BIG log !

I understand this is just an initial design, I do NOT ever mean to be critical and you probably have already considered much of what I said. :)

WTG!

Mikey

[Klapton]

You're helping too much this time, Mikey, lol. I just drew the thing to see what it would look like and what the square footage is without doing a geometry problem, lol.

I'm not building that house. While I think the reciprocal roof thing is neato, I don't want to build one. I'm doing 40x40 stock plans with basement/garage and a simple gable roof.

[Fyremare]

Thanks Mikey, but yeah, it's all in the rolling-around-in-the-head stage! Larry was playing with an idea and a computer program. My thoughts are similar though. I would probably go one story or a story and a half. Pull the roof support logs in a ways (which was probably impossible to do in that program!) and put them on piers. The reciprocal roof that I hope to use would not need a center support log. My daydreams have been to possibly put the chimney up through the center hole if I put anything there at all. I've seen buildings totally open with a stained-glass copula at the top where all the roof rafters intersect. Makes for interesting lighting all day long.
I wouldn't have the garage underneath either. Gettin' older... the less stairs the better! LOL! I would have it detached. Maybe hook it to the house with an enclosure with a lot of glass. It could double as a small greenhouse to start spring garden plants, potting shed/mudroom kind of entryway.
Don't kick me out for saying this, because my decision isn't anywhere near solid yet, but I am looking at all log building methods. Because short logs may be a better way to go for us, we may do some butt and pass (maybe the bottom courses), but combine it with stockade and piece en piece. That's why using shorter logs for the octagonal walls (20 vs 40) is an interesting concept to think about.
Mikey, I didn't take your help as criticism, don't think Larry did either! I totally love that you are trying to make sure that those of us with less experience make sure we think about things! I appreciate it, not to worry!
I'm not looking for anything too big, but for something that could be expandable... like adding a spa room to give massages in. The main goal will be to try and get shelter before this winter. A small cabin may come before the more complex, but who knows! I've been known to take off a really big bite sometimes! So far never more than I could chew!

[Klapton]

Yeah, I definitely wasn't busting on anyone, or trying to discourage Mike from helping anyone out. Just pointing out that my little picture doesn't represent any kind of serious design I'm considering. It was really just to see what an octagonaly log house might look like -- nothing more.

The vertical logs in the drawing are just vertical log objects... I could have stuck them pretty much anywhere. I just thought they HAD to be on the outer edge because of the reciprocal roof thing? /shrug. Maybe I really don't get how it's supposed to work anyway, lol.

RPSLs, RPs, Cap logs, gable ends... Those make plenty of sense for me, and are more than complicated enough, lol.

[RodneyG]

No need for the poles way out there. The reciprocal roof logs or beams sit on the wall just like any other roof.

[Loghomeguy]

Really, no such thing !

Maybe you do not need the information or knowledge but perhaps someone else might benefit. :)

Only doing my best here to help out !

Mikey

[2 cents]

i'm just doing a regular 40x40 w/basement, but not putting the garage in the basement-- will do a separate garage later. was wondering if that is a good decision, and was glad to read your comment that a separate garage is better! seems i always find a good tidbit in every post. :)

2 cents