View Full Version : Criticism from other sites
HardWood
02-16-2008, 10:27 PM
I stumbled across this site a while back and was very impressed. The more time I spent "looking around" the more I liked what I saw. This site offers more helpful tips and insight than any other sites I have seen.
I decided to sign my wife and myself up for the April class. We are very excited but are still skeptical.
About half of the criticism I read on other sites focuses on the methods used and the other half is about the courses. I am not very concerned with the method as it is what it is.
The basic comments go like this, "How can you teach someone everything they need to know to build a house in two days?" I also ask myself the same question, but still I am excited to see for myself at the class.
So my question for this discussion is, "How can you teach someone everything they need to know to build a house in two days?"
Thanks!
rocklock
02-17-2008, 12:22 AM
I have been to other forums that talked about other log home building classes that took 6 weeks.
This guy (in the other forum) went on and on about how the instructor took two days to teach him about how to sharpen an ax that was sharp enough to shave with... Well, they won't teach teach you to sharpen either an ax or a chain saw. And I don't what to shave with either one... Besides, we don't cut into our logs, we stack them.
The tools most used in stacking logs is a drill and a sledge hammer... They don't teach about them either... In the members section we have created an alternate method that minimizes the use of the sledge.
They teach about concepts that work... The classes are fast moving and they have a work book that helps with the notes... but 22 hours is a long time.
The most important benefit IMHO is you get to go to the members side of the forum where real builders show how they are building theirs with photo's and video's.
to add on Rocklock's comments above...they teach you how to build the log structure. Certain foundations, walls, roofs, floors, etc. They don't teach wiring and plumbing. However they do give you insight on where to find out how to do basic wiring and plumbing.
I think everyone who took the class has had reservations about it being to good to be true. And most of us took the class before this forum was established so we didn't have the input from previous member's like you do. Especially the member's section!
You won't regret it!
Klapton
02-17-2008, 06:02 AM
I have very little construction experience (just some minor repairs before selling a house, etc.) I just ordered several books on wiring, plumbing etc. But books about wiring, plumbing, framing -- those are readily available. If you try to find a book about building your own log home, most of what you will find will be books about how to shop for kits and/or supervise contractors.
If a person with extensive construction experience was to take the class, they would indeed learn pretty much ALL they needed to know to build a butt and pass log home. For the rest of us, it's the BEGINNING of our learning. But it's the part you really can't get anywhere else.
The other thing the class teaches someone like me, is that I CAN do this. The process is so simple (I didn't say EASY -- it's going to be hard work! but simple meaning not terribly complicated.) After taking the class, I am actually far more daunted by most of the the OTHER stuff -- the stuff that isn't part of the log structure. But like I said, I can buy lots of books, videos, etc. about all that stuff, or I can find a subcontractor to do it for me with relative ease (though more expense). What is hard to find is someone who knows how to build you a REAL log home (as opposed to one made of really big dowels).
HardWood,
I understand your apprehension but you really can learn the necessary skills to build your own log home in this class. Others have said it but I'll say it again...the process is simple. Not easy but simple. One big difference between this class and some others is hands on practice. Most other log building methods require quite a bit of practice to get it right, while butt and pass is much more forgiving and can be done by those of us with much less experience.
Another differences in the classes is this. Let's say you take a six week log building class. You pay your money (probably in the thousands of $$) then, during the class, you and your fellow students actually build a very nice scandinavian chinkless home. You then walk away with your certificate and some very good building experience. The home you built stays where it is until the guy running the class sells it to someone for a whole bunch of money. In effect, he got his students to pay him for the privilege of providing him with free labor on his construction project. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with it. If I could get people to do that for me I would but I'm not about to pay someone for the opportunity to be free labor. I would be happy to do the work, for no pay, in exchange for the education but not if I also have to pay.
JD
HardWood
02-17-2008, 02:50 PM
Thanks for these words. This makes me feel better about my decision. I am glad to hear that the class focuses on what is unique to the log home portion of building. I am already pretty good with electrical and plumming, and you are correct, there are ton of resources for that portion of building.
As I alluded to in my original post, this has really been the only site I have found that offers "real" advice for building a log home. As I say that, I think of other helpful pages I have seen, but they have all been personal pages and several of them were pages from people who were members here.
I am also more confident now that I see how quickly people have responded!
Thanks!
Upers
02-17-2008, 03:09 PM
Hardwood,
I took the class in October last year and I have probably learned as much since then as I did in the
class itself from the members section. There are a lot of people going through the process that discuss
each step of the project and what went well and mistakes to avoid. The best part are the professionals
that add invaluable detail as to any particular aspect of the entire project.
Oh, and then there is the potential on-hands training... I have been invited to two existing LHBA members
projectsas and I will for sure invite anyone interested in the area when I get started.
I just bought some materials for my model!
Pat
bkleber
02-17-2008, 05:12 PM
Hardwood,
There's another thread less than a month old, I think called "2 good 2 be true?" where another interested person was asking a similar question - how is it possible to learn everything that people claim to lean in one weekend? I have to agree with everything everyone else has already said: they don't waste time teaching you how to do stuff that either you can easily learn elsewhere (interior framing, plumbing, electrical), that you should contract out (excavation and pouring cement, and depending on who you are, plumbing and electrical) or that you probably already know - and if you can't figure it out for yourself, no class is going to help (sledgehammer). They concentrate on the things that set Butt-and-pass construction methods aside from anything else, that nobody else will tell you. Anyone who has played with Linkin' Logs probably went into the class already sure that no matter what anyone told them, they were going to flatten their logs on the top and bottom to make it easier to stack them up - what could be more obvious than that? This class teaches you *why* that's the worst idea in the world, and armed with that understanding, you can avoid a thousand other similar foolish mistakes. These guys are very efficient: They arm you with the kernels of understanding that give rise to the entire construction method and design philosophy, instead of keeping those secret and just giving you the results. That way, you can design pretty much anything you can come up with, in a robust way that you will know you can trust.
When I was in your position - learning about the LHBA class and thinking that it sounded too good to be realistic in its claims - I found an on-line photo journal of someone who took Skip's class in the mid-70's. Pouring over that journal web site for days is what convinced me that I could build a house from scratch, because each step is so obviously simple. The site is http://home.mindspring.com/~kahle11/log.html and if you click on the "step by step" link near the bottom, you'll see where that student started, and take every essential step with him from unbroken ground to a completed house.
If that doesn't really demonstrate that the class is worthwhile and for real, nothing possibly can... and I'd still say, take the class, and remember that there's a money-back guarantee if you're not happy. But I can't imagine that anyone would ever honestly cash in on that - there's just too much knowledge handed out in the class that I don't think you can find anywhere else.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Beta 1 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.