Plumbing question

[sailor]

Hi everyone, love this site!

My wife and I are planning to take the class and build a cabin for retirement. In looking things over and trying to plan, I was wondering how you run water lines around to where you need them? If you have a basement, it seems simple, but what if you build it on concrete piers like I see people doing? I plan to build in northern Michigan, and wonder how you would run pipes under the floors and not have them freeze in winter?

Thanks!

[rreidnauer]

You almost certainly have to do as if you were running plumbing through the second floor joists, where everything is drilled through, but then insulate. (and adding a foam board product to the bottom of the joists wouldn't be a bad idea either) An alternate idea would be to run beneath the joists, and frame in an insulated box around the pipes, though I like the idea of that less, since it's further removed from the heated portion of your home. The good news is, you only have to worry about this for your drain lines, which are empty most of the time anyhow. Supply lines can be snaked around nearly as easy as electrical wires, so there's no need to run them under joists. Heat tape and insulation would be needed for your supply riser. I don't like heat tape because of fire risk, so if I was forced to do that, I'd wrap my riser with it, snap a piece of 10" round, metal duct over it, and fill the void with non combustible Vermiculite.

The class provides some good insight on floor plan design, to keep plumbing efficient as possible. Even joist layout direction can play a pivotal role in how easy/difficult the plumbing can be. Certainly, plumbing should be high on one's mind when laying out a plan.

[greenthumb]

To add to what Rod has already said, I doubt the pier blocks would be viable in northern Michigan due to the depth of the frost line. They probably would not be cost effective due to the increased height of the piers- a full basement or crawlspace would probably be the better alternative.

[sailor]

Andy and Rod
I was thinking about a crawl space too, and I am also reticent about using heat tape as well. I would like a full basement, but it will depend on the land I buy, ie next to a lake or river, etc. Something on a hill next to a lake would be ideal, then I could build a walkout basement.

Thanks again for the help, looking forward to taking the class.

Kevin

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Great ideas. I was wondering about insulating in the crawl space. Certain insects
like foam insulaton. They can turn it into swiss cheese. Vermiculite is an excellent
idea. I have to go 40" to get below the frost line. Cost effective but I'm on a side
hill. That makes some of my piers over 8' tall, they would need to sit on a 4' x 4'
pad, and the whole thing would then need to be engineered. A walkout basement
on a side hill wasn't too many thousand dollars off the price of the engineered pier
system. I'm with you Rod...I've put out too many fires that were caused by heat tape.

-Rick

[spiralsands]

I have rolling hills and the knoll I want to build on overlooks the pond about 20 feet down, between the two pastures. So I've been considering a lower profile house with a walk-out basement also. I'm not a fan of soaring ceilings and houses that look like Monopoly Hotels when they're sitting out in a pasture. I have a book called Adirondack Cabin that talks about windows in basements that are higher and larger and placed according to the sun location to allow more light in. The only fear I have about digging a basement is the amount of rock I'm going to encounter. When I was camping there last summer, digging a privy was a horror story because of the rocks.

On the other hand, all that rock will make a great fireplace someday....