Cement chinking

[Hooboy]

Is cement chinking really preferred over synthetic? It would really seem that concrete will develop cracks and allow drafts much faster than with synthetic. Whereas, the synthetic is thought to trap moisture, not allowing proper ventilation and causing rot.

I have no practical experience with either, and would really like some knowledgable information from some folks who have seen (and preferrably lived in) the differences between the two.

[jgunn5066]

A properly built log home won't be drafty, even if cracks develop in the mortar chinking. This is covered in-depth in the class, if you're interested in learning more about it. Mortar chinking will breathe and allow moisture to get out from between the logs, which is important.

Synthetic chinking is used a lot in "kit" log homes, a lot of which have to settle as the logs shrink over time - so it's necessary that the mortar flex. You're right about trapping moisture - not a good thing. Also, synthetic mortars have to be replaced periodically - which leads some people to think that the whole synthetic chinking movement is a money-making scam; they didn't have synthetic chinking 100 years ago, and they got along okay, I think. ;)

So, the answer is "it depends" - it depends on the type of log home you're chinking. If you're chinking a "kit" home, you would probably have to use synthetic; if you're building a home yourself using the methods taught by the association, you'll want to use mortar.

Does that help?

[JeffandSara]

Hooboy--

This subject was recently discussed in another thread, and when I posted there, I think I was thinking of your question, as well, but didn't remember that they were separate.

Just wanted to say briefly, in case you didn't happen on the other thread, that we have used mortar chinking in our house, and so far we're very very happy with it. It was inexpensive, easy (though time-consuming) to apply, it's attractive, and the house is quite tight.

But you, of course, are concerned about long-term performance, and that's a logical and legitimate concern, of course.

My husband and I have "experience" with only two "older" log homes at all, but both are mortar chinking, and in both the mortar chinking seems to have performed VERY well.

One house is SKip's, where I've mentioned before, I "tested" the chink zone insulation (because I was worried about drafts, especially when I looked closely and saw some good-sized gaps caused by log shrinkage over time.) I stuck my little finger up to the first joint in one larger gap in Skip's chinking, and although it was a low-30s blustery day outside, there wasn't a bit of a draft.

The other house is a 1930's log cabin we own, and I think the mortar that's in there now is the same as was in there in the 30's or 40's. I can't speak to drafts, specifically, because of additions to the exterior of the cabin. But , even here ON the San Andreas Fault, the mortar chinking (obviously poorly-applied as it was) is in very good condition, with small cracks, but no places it's missing. I think it's very much "sound" after all this time.

For what it's worth... Sara :D

[Reb]

Don't forget that you can add watered down chinking after one year, when the logs have finished settling/drying to seal up the cracks that have developed.

[JeffandSara]

Absolutely, Reb, good point.

But around here, it's been comforting to realize that apparently neither Skip nor the original owner of our little log cabin ever did... and there's still no functional problem with the chinking.

I think that the second application would be more of an aesthetic consideration than a functional one?

Sara :D

[Reb]

I think that the second application would be more of an aesthetic consideration than a functional one?

I agree. Do you think that skipping the second application would allow bugs to enter? I never paid attention to how large or small the gaps in Skip's chinking were.

[JeffandSara]

What kind of bugs, Reb?

I imagine that a determined bug could get into ANY house, log or stick-built, synthetic chinking or mortar.

For termites and that sort of bug, you hope that the raised foundation and limited vegetative matter near the house will help.

For other bugs (or any other "critter"), I'm thinking it's probably not that big an issue. But, personally, I'd think that if you ended up with a gap that was big enough that you knew that they were coming in, you'd consider re-chinking that spot and see if that helped. :wink:

We've not seen that as a problem in either this house or the old cabin, specifically. But anything's possible.

I will say, however, that if anyone has a real spider phobia, both I and a friend who was a housekeeper in the area (where there are a number of milled log houses) have noticed that spiders DO like log walls. :lol:

Sara

[Mitch]

I have a question. Does anyone know how cement chinking looks if you stain it? I realize that using Skip???s method, staining the logs isn???t necessary, but I like the look and don???t mind the extra work. More to the point, my wife hates the look of chinking, so I am thinking that if I stain the logs and chinking at the same time they will blend together. I asked during the school (dec???04) and was told that because the cement chinking is porous it will take the stain, but I was wondering if anyone had actually done it and how well it looked.


I believe the January home of the month is stained, but it looks like the chinking is not. I suppose they stained the logs first. If anyone has any thoughts on coloring the cement chinking, I would love your input. Thanks.

--- Mitch

[JeffandSara]

Mitch--

There's stain spilled on the chinking in our old log cabin, and it just looks brownish-red like the logs, and a little... satiny, I guess. I can't imagine that it would look particularly attractive on all the chinking, since both the chink zones in there and in our new house have 2" plus chink zone widths. They're pretty wide areas to have so-so looking chinking, if you know what I mean.

But you could try it in an area you'll cover later with kitchen cabinets or something to see if your wife likes it better than the plain chinking.

Seems like coloring the mortar would be a more attractive option. They sure have every color under the sun available in cement colorant.

I just have to wonder if there would be any problem keeping the color consistent through all the batches of mortar it takes to chink a whole house?

Best--
Sara :D

[mbolin]

Sara, in our class they recommended waiting until you do your final "touch up" chinking with the watered down mortar to add your color. That way you wouldn't have different shades of the color throughout the house. From what I understand that final coat of watered down chinking was almost the consitency of paint.

[JeffandSara]

Mbolin--

that makes sense. Mixing color into cement, I have heard, can be problematic. Can't recall if they talked about coloring the grout in our class or not (way back in 2000, so some of the details are sketchy :wink:).

And yes, our understanding of the "touch up" chinking application was that it was almost a "slurry", and you basically "paint" it on. But right now, my husband and I are thinking like Skip/Steve about when we might go back and do that project. :lol:

Sara

[Reb]

What kind of bugs, Reb?

In my case, lady bugs. But I just have a weird phobia about them. :oops:

Either way, I think we'll probably do the final chinking just in case.


I will say, however, that if anyone has a real spider phobia, both I and a friend who was a housekeeper in the area (where there are a number of milled log houses) have noticed that spiders DO like log walls. :lol:

Yikes. I am not particularly fearful of spiders, but they will not be living among us if I have anything to do with it! :wink:

[Mitch]

Thanks for the input Sara and mbolin. I will probably go with color in the mortar on the final coat. I guess that would probably be the easiest and look the best.

Thanks again.
--- Mitch

[Logbear]

I used chinking exactly like I was taught in class. My house is about 15 years old now and I never rechinked and I don't have any drafts. If rechinking is needed I remember being taught to make it the consistancy of thin creamy peanut butter and use a turkey baster.

[edited 1/22/05]
edit reason: We use a different recipe today, wouldn't want anyone trying to chink their home with the wrong one.

[linuxboy]

Thanks for the input Sara and mbolin. I will probably go with color in the mortar on the final coat. I guess that would probably be the easiest and look the best.

Thanks again.
--- Mitch

Hey Mitch. I'm trying to come up with a way to have the chinking color match the logs, so there is not the "zebra pattern" that comes with cement chinking. How did your approach work out?

Thanks

[ribbonevt]

Hello all,

One problems of not re-chinking would be the gaps would allow for bugs like bees and hornets to get into the insulation area and build there nests. Not a pleasant thought for me, my wife or the kids. We built a small guest house last fall out of dimensional lumber and didn???t put the battens over the boards until the fall and we had lots of bees around and in the cracks of the plank lumber. So to me it would make since to re-chink after the first year.


Logbear wrote


If rechinking is needed I remember being taught to make it the consistancy of thin creamy peanut butter and use a turkey baster.

If I remember the class correctly the item to use to apply the peanut butter mortar was a pastry bag.

[mistacandy]

I am interested in a log home for sale with mortar chinking already in place. I don't like the color etc.. of the chinking. Can I chink over the mortar with synthetic chink? (the mortar chink is not in good condition at all) Also, can you possibly replace mortar chinking on the home?

[Shark]

I am interested in a log home for sale with mortar chinking already in place. I don't like the color etc.. of the chinking. Can I chink over the mortar with synthetic chink? (the mortar chink is not in good condition at all) Also, can you possibly replace mortar chinking on the home?

You probably want to ask the manufacturer of the synthetic chink you plan to use if that is OK with their warranty or not.

Yes you can replace mortar chinking with new mortar chinking. It may not match perfectly but should work fine.

[mistacandy]

Do you recommend to go over the current mortor chinking with new chinking either mortar or synthetic, or replace it all?

[wlsnyder2]

Sara, in our class they recommended waiting until you do your final "touch up" chinking with the watered down mortar to add your color. That way you wouldn't have different shades of the color throughout the house. From what I understand that final coat of watered down chinking was almost the consitency of paint.

I have torn down and reassembled more than a dozen 18th and 19th century log structures and always have used mortar as the chinking, backed by hardware cloth (galvanized wire) on both the interior and exterior, with fiberglass insulation in between. The first one was 24 years ago, with still no problem with the chinking.

As for color, my recommendation would be to use powdered mortar dye, which is available at nearly every masonry supply business. You can get a variety of colors and using the same measure, mix it in with your mortar mix for uniformity. I typically use 'buff' color, since it gives the appearance of traditional clay chinking, but just about any color is available.

[loghousenut]

Thanks for chiming in, William Lee. (My hobby is guessing first and middle names)

I like that clay look too... but I'm married so mine will be gray.

[rocklock]

I am interested in a log home for sale with mortar chinking already in place. I don't like the color etc.. of the chinking. Can I chink over the mortar with synthetic chink? (the mortar chink is not in good condition at all) Also, can you possibly replace mortar chinking on the home?

There is chinking paint in every color possible. Then there is synthetic chinking in tubes to put in the cracks. One application will work because the synthetic is sticky and flexible (a little). I bought mine in some store in Vermont or some place back east and sent to Washington.

I have pictures on my web site..

[christopher]

Thanks for this post wisnyder2. I was thinking about using the wire mesh as a backing instead of nails. It is good to see someone who has used it successfully.

[StressMan79]

nks for this post wisnyder2. I was thinking about using the wire mesh as a backing instead of nails. It is good to see someone who has used it successfully.

Come by my place. Mesh used in the largest cracks, including one 7 in gap.

[loghousenut]

Or come on by my place. I am currently chinking. Nothing but nails and I have some corner caves that make Peter's look like mice holes. The nails hold it all in just fine.