Interesting question from a coworker

[rreidnauer]

I was telling her about how I need to assure I have the timber rights to the land, or risk having whomever owns them to come trolloping onto my property to cut them down whenever they want. She said she never heard of such a thing. (of course not, she lived on 1/4 acre lots in developments all her life) I told her it does happen, and it's a real concern. Anyhow, she asks me a very interesting question.

"What happens if someone else has the timber rights, and a tree comes crashing down on your house? Do you sue the holder of the timber rights?"

Hmmmm, never thought about something like that, from that angle. I promised I'd mention it on the board and see where it goes, so here it is!

[Basil]

In Kentucky, unless specifically reserved all timber is sold with the land, as well as any improvements on the land that are attached. Just ask your attorney who is running the title to check timber rights in particular (he's supposed to anyway). Loggers are responsible for damage done to the property they are logging, the same way oil drillers are responsible for damage they do. The stuff incident to their job (slash, logging roads, etc) doens't generally have to be compensated for. The extra damages (tree on house, excess erosion, crop damage) they are supposed to pay for.

[Rumble]

When buying country property, espiacially "wild" property, you may want to do an investigation who may own the oil, gas and mineral rights on your property. Although it is rare, it has happened that a prospector (with a prospectors licence) comes walking all over your land setting down numbered stakes.

[adubar]

Rod, if you are thiking of a scenario where the wind or old age blows the tree over, well no. The timber rights owner is not liable. However, as stated in the last post, if they do logging operations and damage your stuff, then you could try to get money out of them.

The reall problem with timber and other rights that have been seprated from the property is more in what the holders of those rights can do leagally to make it near impossible to keep living on the property (one example is deciding to escavate one inch away from your patio to prospect for minerals--in most localities they only need to give you brief notice of their intentions.---most of us would quit living in a home subject to that.
Also, you will find these types of seprations from lands more often from the Missippi West, as the Feds passed laws in the late 1800's that allowed and encouraged the practice for mineral and logging development to expand the West---it is near impossible to find lands that you can build on out this way that retain ALL the rights. However, lands that are under incorporation usually have over-arching laws that protect the land owner (the same types of laws that allow a local government to use eminent domain)--essential the local government authority "owns" the rights for land owners and acts in the collective best interest. In many ways, local government is a double edged sword---it can protect your 100 acres from minig prospectors, water starved farmers and timber barons, but it can just the same take the land away from you.

In the East you may come acrost is with very savy land dealers or owners and most buyers would never read the title to clue in on the fact.

In the West, the records of the seprations are often not with the title that a title company has, so one must do their own additional research at the records office--usually looking at land titles for all adjacent/adjoining properties for clues.

I myself have run into problems with separated mineral, timber and water rights in land deals---the vast majority of realtors don't even understand the law and will convince a buyer to buy when they shouldn't.

Me, I never use a realtor, unless they are representing the seller and I'm getting them to show the property and ONLY THAT.
For me, I retain legal consul for all realestate transactions--many will do it for a fixed fee and their usual retainer. Beware "realestate lawyers' that are simply brokers with a Juris Doctorate.

-Andrew

[ajax]

ajax

Hi all.....on the subject of the tree falling onto a house?

Simply put, if this was an "Act of God" where the tree was in good shape and simply feel due to a storm, there should not be any liability on the part of the person owning the rights.

If the tree was rotting and in danger of falling, and if the homeowner had given some type of "Notice" to the owner of the rights (Who is also responsible for the tree," than it is a differant story. In this case if the owner of the rights had previous "Notice" and did nothing to address the potential for loss, than he would be held liable barring any strange clause written into the contract regarding sale of the land, etc.

[adubar]

Ajax, can you point to specific case law on timber rights holders and land title holders to support that type of libility?
(Generally, the rights to the timber is for harvesting and disposing as seen fit (and legally allowable in the locality).

I'd appreciate it, as I am not familiar with one and most of the cases I've read do not hold that type of liability for the rights holder.

Now for the case of your neighbor having a tree that blows down and hits your house after you told him that he should prune it, that is a different matter.

Regards,

-Andrew