Clearing Land?

[rocklock]

I have 2 1/2 acres of land on Camano Island in Wa. The land is slightly sloaping into a beaver pond. I must build an access road approximately 200' and clear a turnaround area for the well drilling trucks.

Also, the Douglas Fur trees that are cut will be used for the log home, so I need to clear a place to put them along with a two drainage fields.

I have a person that will build the road but it seems that he is extreemly busy and may not be able. I also have a cousin that has volunteered, and is capable of opperating the nessary machines. I have operated an end loader, backhoe and various tractors.

I presume that getting a road in means cutting the trees flush with the ground more or less in a straight line with out removing the stumps... Is that true?

If one must remove the stumps, how is it done easly?

What size stones should be laid?

What am I missing?

Is there some kind of tutorial that I can access?

Thanks
Rocklock in Hawaii

[Ellsworth]

I know a guy who does excellent work. He has all the equipment and is very experienced (it's awesome to watch him work he is so skilled). He???s pretty reasonable on price BUT he is usually swamped with work all the time, so it can be hard to get him nailed on a date. I???m not sure if he will do work on Camano, but if you want his contact info just email me and I???ll look it up for you.

On the stumps, yes I'd get them outta there, here's the easiest way to do it.

Make sure the logger leaves a good 5 or 6-foot tall stump. The person who does your driveway should be able easily deal with the rest of the task. I'll give a thumbnail sketch of how things are often done. You should probably check with whomever you're going to have do your driveway before cutting trees (to be on the safe side) because they may have different preferences/procedures:

Get a large track hoe excavator with some sort of thumb attachment or hydraulic clamp.

The operator will literally grab the tree trunk and shake it a bit, then push and pull, until he or she can yank/pull/roll/drag the stump out of the ground.

For large tree stumps the operator might stab the bucket into the ground around the stump first, to sever the root system a bit, and then they can pull the stump out.

For REALLY big stumps the operator will trench around the stump and cut the roots that way. Yes you do end up with a big hole that you'll need to fill in.

For the driveway: you probably want to consult with whoever does your driveway to ensure you're addressing any site-specific issues... But generally it involves digging down a bit, putting down a layer of riprap (crushed stone), and then gravel. That way you end up with a very solid driveway that will last without issues.

Be aware that the person you get to do your driveway may have a different set of procedures that he or she likes, so you might want to figure out who you are hiring and show them the site. They should be able to fill you in on a lot of the finer details.

Often the best way to get 'caught up to speed' on these kinds of issues is to do a normal bidding process. Have 2 or 3 professionals come out to inspect the site and give you a bid on the land clearing and driveway. Have a list of question for each person, so you can glean tons of info from their professional experience and their assessment of what you need to do for your particular job site.

Hopefully the above makes some sense and helps you out :)

[jgunn5066]

Sorry if this is off-topic, but I have to ask...

How do you get logs out to an island?

-Jeff

[rteeter]

Hi Rocklock,

Just wanted to share my experience with you. About six years ago I hired a guy to clean up some stump piles and basically park out my property.
Knowing nothing about this process I did not understand the capabilities of the equipment this guy had. He was using a backhoe to clear up 2 1/2 acres and burn some stump piles. Burning the stump piles was no issues and the backhoe worked great for that. The problems came when he tried to remove some large stumps and also when he tried to grade the cleared areas. He spent the better part of a day on getting two stumps out and one he ended up digging a large hole and just burying it because he coult not reach the main root to get it out. Granted these were very large cedar stumps but I feel he did not know the limits of his equipment when he bid the job. This guy spent the better part of 4 days getting the job done and I think it would have gone a lot faster had I hired someone with a large track hoe for dealing with the stumps and the burn piles.

I hope this helps

Rob

[KentGRD]

Go big or go home is my motto and a large trackhoe would do the job. A small dozer is best for overal grading and if you need to build up the lot a nice 5 yard scraper will lay down a smooth run of dirt if you have a place to grab it from like a nice sand hill.

A older case 580 with a gannon box ( like a box blade ) will do wonders since it can hold a bunch of material and can be angled any way you need.

Works nice for a drainage ditch or overall road grading also.

[daswafo]

Before I started, I had never driven a tractor, bulldozer, excavator or articulated loader. Once I found out that mere mortals could drive down to the local United Rental and rent this stuff, I was off and running.

I cut a ¼ mile driveway and cleared my house site of about 40 fir trees using only a rented small John Deere 450 bulldozer. I was able to push all of the trees over stump and all. It usually required that I cut one or two of the main roots with the dozer blade. Once that was done the tree would usually go over fairly easily. I pushed all of the house site trees over in one day. The next day I pushed them stump and all off of the house site to cut their stumps and branches off with a chain saw. Once this was done it was just a matter of pushing the logs into one pile and the rest into a burn pile. The stump diameter of most of these trees were in the 13 – 16 inch range.

I’ve done the same thing with a large excavator and find it much easier. The problem is that they tend to be more expensive to rent. If I have enough work to keep me busy for a week and have allot of digging to do, I rent an excavator for my tree work as well.

If you like working on tractors, have the time and money to do some of this yourself, don’t deny yourself the fun. It’s not often that you have a chance to do this kind of stuff unless you do it for a living. I did what Ellsworth suggested and got bids on my job. They told me two things. 1st they told me what had to be done. 2nd they told me through their bid that I couldn’t afford not to try and do it myself.

[ClubMike]

I have to ask, what does it cost to rent a dozer for a day or two?

[daswafo]

It depends on the size of bulldozer how close you are to the rental place and how long you plan to rent the equipment. If I go to a place like United Rental or Hertz Rental it costs around $30 an hour if I rent a John Deere 450 for a week at a time. That is 40 hours of running time used over up to a 7 day period. If you rent for only a day, expect to pay up to $450 for 8 hours running time used over a 24 hour period.

I think that excavator rentals will run around $40-$44 per hour for anything worth working with.

I also rent from a local guy who rents much older equipment for $20/hour with a 5 hour per day minimum. This works out much better if you need to get on and off your equipment allot during the day.

Transport for me cost between $40 and $75 round trip depending on the outfit shipping the equipment. I think they charge 20 cents per mile over 20 miles after the initial shipping charge.

You have to figure out the economics for yourself. I was given several quotes for my 1/4mile drive way that were 30K and 35K respectively. I was able to do it fore 10K myself. My situation was a bit extreme as my driveway needed allot of cut and fill work in addition to the tree clearing and brush work. If you have a simple job that can be knocked out in a day by a professional, you will probably do better hiring the job out. When I get my quotes, I usually use a 2X rule. If I can hire the job out for less than 2X what it would cost me to do it myself, I hire the job out. If it is over 2X, I do the job myself.

Dave

[ClubMike]

Thanks, this will help a lot when I talk to people about getting this work done.

[mbolin]

Hey guys, our land that I need to clear is thick with small pines. I will be able to use some of the trees for building, but will need to cut them as close to the ground as possible. Ellsworth mentioned in his post that you should leave 5'-6' feet of stump to give the equipment something to grab onto. Will it be difficult to dig/push up the stumps if cut off close to the ground? Also, has anyone here dug up stumps with a skid steer loader (Bobcat)? I have rented those here for $180/8hrs.

[daswafo]

If you can rent and operate a Bobcat, you should have no problem operating a small bulldozer or excavator. Bobcats are not really made for that kind of work and you will probably have to spend more time and money with the Bobcat than a single day with a dozer or excavator. If you plan to cut the trees before using the equipment, it is essential that you leave a ???tall??? stump so that you have some leverage to push against so that you can break the roots loose. I have found it easiest to simply push the entire tree over stump and all. If you can find someone to rent you a dozer with a brush rake attachment on the blade, you will have a cleaner brush pile (i.e. less dirt in the pile). Unfortunately, most rental places I???ve dealt with don???t offer brush rakes.

If you want to get the most of your house logs without damage, dig the roots up with an excavator or backhoe and push them over. If you are using a very small backhoe like I have access to, you can put a winch cable high up in to the tree, dig on the roots some and then pull it over with your winch. I always use a snatch block off of a nearby tree so that my truck is well off to the side of the tree fall area. Once the stump is out of the ground, you can cut it as close as you like.

If you push your house trees over with a bulldozer, you might get some dents or gashes in the log depending on the thickness of your bark and how rough you get with the tree.

As for the difficulty of digging up stumps that are flush to the ground, let me put it into a time perspective from my experience. I was pushing 16??? to 18??? diameter trees over in less than 5 minutes if they were stubborn. It took seconds if they were easy. Bare stumps that were cut close to the ground took up to an hour depending on where they were located and how much time I had to spend in the hole cutting roots by hand. Of course this is all dependent on the size and condition of your equipment. I was using an old John Deere 450 dozer that weighed around 15,000 lbs.

BTW, I expect that dozer rental in Alabama is cheaper than the NorthWest.

[mbolin]

Thanks, thats exactly what I needed to know. One of my options was to let a local logger cut the small pines for pulp wood, but the logger will not want to leave a tall stump for me to work with. The small amount of money I would make selling the pulpwood may be eaten up by the extra time it would take to clear all the stumps.

[GrafikFeat]

Sorry if this is off-topic, but I have to ask...

How do you get logs out to an island?

-Jeff

Ummm... Over the bridge.

:wink:
Jim

[dmorgan]

Lots of good responses in this topic.

I did my own clearing on a 6.5 acre lot. I say clearing but I'm a tree hugger so I didn't cut any more of the large stuff than absolutely necessary.

I used a Ford 550 4x4 backhoe for most of the work. Couple of things a small dozer would have been better for but it didn't seem to be enough to rent one.

I used the bucket to push and pile the trash and the waste timber, relocate materials, unload trucks and trailers, etc.

I used a 12 inch bucket on the hoe end for the stumps. The slim profile worked great for stabbing deep around the stump to break/cut roots and the cupping action worked well for getting behind the stump and breaking the tap root. After that just a few pushes against the stump and i could snatch the thing and place it where I wanted it. Nice thing about the 12 inch bucket is you don't create a monster hole. pretty much the hole is the size of the stump.

And there are fancier tools made but I bought a Ford 8n tractor and some three point hitch tools pretty cheap and that's been the handiest darn thing I've ever owned. A box blade behind a tractor is one amazingly versitile tool. If you own a gravel road you want a box blade. :-)

Another handy tool I used in clearing is the Bobcat. Those little rascals will knock down a ton of underbrush and small trees and lifting the bucket up and down it's full reach while moving slowly throught the underbrush did wonders with pulling down and cutting off vines. Best types are the tracked models though.

David
Belmont, NC

[rreidnauer]

Sorry if this is off-topic, but I have to ask...

How do you get logs out to an island?

-Jeff


Ha, float em over! :D

[DYork]

A few things to consider, if you haven't done a lot of work with hoes, excavators or small dozers. Small dozers are good for roads, brush, and saplings, but simply don't have the weight, track surface, or HP to push over big trees.
1. In wheeled backhoes, even with a front loader, the power is in the hydraulics, not the wheels. Set the stabilizers and front bucket and use the power of the backhoe. You can push and pull more with that than you can ever get out of the wheels. As said above, use the backhoe to dig the earth away and cut the roots. Unless you have a really big machine, you will find the power in a backhoe is in the stick and curl--not the boom.
2. Dozer. One sizable enough to do all you need done may be out of your price range--the bigguns get expensive. You can get by with a smaller-lighter one if you use it right. If you can, rent one with a rear winch. Pick a helper up in the front bucket of the backhoe loader combo, and hook the winch line up about as high as you can on stubborn trees. (Don't get so far up you break the trunk off when you pull on it.) Then free spool out the cable as you move away from the tree as far as possible. Engage the winch and pull the tree over, using the leverage you gained by tying the cable up the tree trunk.

We used this method with great success 30+ years ago when all we had was an old International TD14 with cable operated blade. (No hydraulics on the blade). We had mounted a front loader on one of the 9N Fords we had, and put a fork in place of the bucket and used that to pile brush and to pick the the guy hooking up the cable on big white oak trees that the TD14 couldn't push over.

Regarding stumps. It may seem that cutting the trees down close to the ground will be ok, and it is if you never want to drive a car or truck out over the area. If in a road, the ground will settle, and the stump will end up 2-6" above grade and be a pain in the butt for years. Often, leaving a stump will result in the tree growing back as well-from the stump. Depends on the species and when it was cut. And forget about it if you ever decide to do any plowing in that area.
Way back when, we could pile brush on a dried out stump and burn it--or an old tire or 2. As dry as it has become in the last decade, I'd be afraid to try this.