Thoughts on Skips class [Archive] - Log Home Builders Association Forums

JeffandSara

01-11-2005, 07:53 AM

Hi, Shawn--

My husband and I seem to be among the few people who've made it to the forum yet who went to the class long enough ago to have built. I'm hoping that some of the others will find their way here; we've contacted the Skips grads we know and encouraged them to join in.

We attended in 2000, and the fee that was "worth it" for us was a bit less than what you'll pay should you decide to go now. However, we just were discussing this the other day, and we agreed that it WOULD be worth spending that much more for the seminar.... but we wondered if we would have KNOWN and felt CONFIDENT that it was at the time.

My husband Jeff paid to attend the seminar twice, because a family illness prevented me from going the first time (and yes, we also weren't sure if I "needed" to go at the time.) All the way home camping for three days between Portland (where I waited with family for Jeff) and southern California, Jeff couldn't stop talking-- or lusting after the local trees. :lol:

But you're right, Shawn... there's a difference between post-seminar enthusiasm and post-construction enthusiasm. I'll tell you, though, Shawn. We're not QUITE "post-construction" yet.... we have another couple of months if all goes well before we'll be really "done" with our home. BUT, all the Skip-specific aspects of our house have been done for quite a while now, and we're VERY VERY HAPPY with our results..... results we would NOT have had had we not "accidentally" heard about Skip's seminars from someone we met online when we were researching milled log homes.

I'm not surprised that you're hearing second- and third-hand problems. We've heard the same. We've networked over the years quite a lot on-line, and we know several people who "know people" who had problems. But we noticed at the seminars, both times, a number of people who we said to one another we "hoped woudnl't decide to build."

Jeff took copious notes and talked late with Skip (and I think Steve) the first time he went. Then the second time I took equally copious notes and Jeff looked at all the details he wanted clarification about from the first time around-- and again, we were the last people to leave both nights. I think that we "got" all there was to get at the seminar.

But we saw quite a few people who were drinking coffee in the kitchen when Skip was explaining the spike pattern, for example. :roll: I even shooed a few of them back into the dining room, telling them "You might need to understand this part!"

The process and technique the Skip teaches is actually pretty simple-- and that's part of the beauty of it, in our opinion. But you MUST pay attention to and understand the basic principles, or you won't get a good result. And unfortunately, almost all the "problems" we've seen second-hand (and we assume the same for what we've heard third-hand) were issues that a better grasp of Skip's information would likely have prevented.

Were those people drinking coffee and chatting during an important part of the seminar, or were they just not experienced enough with basic construction principles to "get" the significance of some of the parts of the process? We can't say.

But Skip's not a "spoon-feeder", and my husband and I agree that if one didn't have a reasonable amount of common sense and general mechanical/physical/analytical skill, the seminar might not be right for them. We've often joked about the times that Skip told us, basically, what the end result needed to be and "trusted" students to find (or maybe assumed that we could figure out) the best way in THEIR SITUATION to get to that result.

For us, that worked great. We had a lot of "situations" we had to improvise, adapt and overcome... but we did, and we think that our home is really wonderful. And WE COULD NOT HAVE DONE THIS-- wouldn't even have known it was what we wanted-- IF WE'D NOT GONE TO THE SEMINAR.

I will not say that it's the perfect seminar for everyone. As I said, there were only a handful of people we met at the one I went to who we felt were REALLY "up" to building anything elaborate or permanent-- and we've not heard from a single one of even THOSE people to say that they have.

But, now that we're more than 3 1/2 years into building a big, on-grid, earthquake-approved, county-stamped one-of-a-kind home that people's first reaction to tends to be either "Oh, my god..." or something else that starts with "holy" :wink: , we feel that we got a bargain in what WE learned at Skip's. And we feel a sincere sense of gratitude to him and all the guys who are continuing his work with and for him.... for teaching us how to build that home that we always wanted, but hadn't been able to put our finger on the WAY to get.

Good luck to you, whatever you decide. :D

Sara

KateHunter

01-11-2005, 08:11 AM

I would generally second Sara's remarks, although I am not in the same position as she is. I have not even begun to build.

I'll be honest with you, and hope that I don't offend Steve, Ellsworth or anyone else at the Association. One of the claims I saw on the website was that the seminar will teach those who attend it "everything [they] need to know to build a log home." Well, in my case at least, that's just not true.

I'm completely inexperienced when it comes to basic construction or even home repairs. There's a great deal I need to know and learn before I'm going to be able to build my home. What the seminar *did* do is light a fire under me. It motivated me more than I can ever say. It also gave me the sense that I *can* do this. I have no doubts that it's going to be a lot of work, but I also know it'll get done.

The seminar was invaluable in teaching me conceptually how a log home is properly built. It taught me enough that I now know what I don't yet know or understand. It gave me a map, as it were, to see what skills I need to acquire to build my house the way I want it built. I have a lineup of classes that I plan to take as soon as I return to the States, to learn how to do lots of the steps in building a log home. But here's the thing - learning all those individual skills would not have given me the general sense of what I could do with them. Most likely, acquiring individual skills in pouring cement, stick framing, hanging wallpaper, etc. would not have translated into an overarching vision and design for what I want as an end product of all my labor.

Other members take the class with a lot more experience under their belts. But whether you're experienced or not, the class is a fantastic resource for anyone thinking about buying or building a log home.

Take the class. You have nothing to lose and a great deal to gain.

Kate

mcdonis

01-11-2005, 08:26 AM

Thanks for all the responses so far (please keep them coming)

One of the things that makes the seminar a little disconserting to an outsider is the way the site promotes it. I dont mean any disrespect but frankly when one reads the site you come away with the feeling that this is yet another scam. The reason why is that almost nowhere on the site are any negative or passive comments about the seminar. I have no doubt that building your own house with little or no experience (no matter how good the seminar is) will have major problems and concerns. And the site kind of makes it sound (at least in its wording anyway) that anyone can do it and experience isnt needed. Perhaps the site owners should add a section on the negative sections of using skips method. Nothing is perfict (that doesnt mean its bad) and highlighting some of what can go wrong with poor decision making or bad information can help make the reader understand that its not just a puffy site ment to extoll the seminar but a true assocation dedicated to teaching building and most of all encouraging others to try something bold.

Personally I feel that from what I have heard it sounds good but I would still love to hear from others who have built to hear their experience. I hope I didnt offend, but in todays world you have to be so carefull with what you believe and read.

jgunn5066

01-11-2005, 10:12 AM

I don't think anyone here would criticize you for being skeptical - most people would applaud it in this day and age, especially since one of Skip's goals is to educate people about the "scams" in the log home building industry.

I hope my $.02 is welcome, even though I haven't built yet.

I took the class a little over a year ago. the only complaint I heard during the entire class were from a couple of people who didn't like some of the conversational tangents we took into personal freedom and governmental interference. And that's a valid opinion, but it's not like it didn't tie in directly to the topic of the course, which is how to build a log home and how it can help you to be "free" in a variety of ways. And when those people spoke up, we got right back to the nuts and bolts of building, and continued the other topics after class.

I enjoyed every aspect of the class; I learned everything I would need to know to build my own home, and I also gained great resources to answer any questions I might come up with later - you're not kicked out the door when you're done with the class, you gain friends and contacts who will help you in the future. It was a great experience, one that I would be happy with even if I never build my own log home.

But I'm gonna. ;)

Take care!
-Jeff in NH

P.S. - Everyone I've met involved in running the association has been completely honest. They're not in it to get rich - they can build log homes and sell them for that. They're in it because they love it, and they want to help people be free (economically and in other ways, as you choose). If they say they'll refund your money if you're not happy, they mean it. It's as simple as that.

mcdonis

01-11-2005, 10:21 AM

I would agree, I have also been in contact with chuck through the sites email address and he has answered a lot of questions some of which were pretty tough and direct.

So far I am impressed with the way my questions have been answered and the people associated with the seminar.

JeffandSara

01-11-2005, 10:27 AM

Jeff,

I would like to second your comments about the Association folks. When we got back and started talking to family about what we learned, I think they all thought maybe we'd been scammed and might end up in real trouble.

But what we were taught makes really good sense, and our family has come around.... even the structural engineer we had to hire to okay our plans (because we live right ON the San Andreas Fault) was impressed when we got him up-to-speed on the whys and wherefores of the philosophy.

In our experience, the guys in the Association have a really high level of patience for "dumb" and not-so-dumb questions. They WANT you to have the great results that Skip and they and others (and we) have had... and they will help you get to that point if they can. One reason we've been so interested in the Association starting up an on-line forum or e-list is because that would make it that much easier to get and SHARE the follow-up information that really helps a project come together even better.

When we were part-way through our construction, we met another couple, the Weekses, who were getting ready to start building their Skip-style house 2000 miles away. We hit it off as friends, and we started a correspondence that brought us eventually to a trip to their house to visit and help them with construction last summer.

I think that the whole basis of the seminar is THAT.... Skip and company knew a great way to do something successfully and economically, and they shared it with us. And we learned a lot by our mistakes and successes in our own project, and we've tried to share that with other like-minded folks we meet. Yes, they charge for the seminar, but I can't see any other way that could work. But for the quality of the information in the first place, and the support available afterwards, we never got such a good value for our money.

Sorry to always be so long-winded.
Sara :D

Steve

01-11-2005, 10:31 AM

Hey folks,

These are some very good comments so far! No need to worry about offending anyone here. We can take it. ;)

Have you seen Larry Kapin's log home (http://www.loghomebuilders.org/log_home_pictures_14.htm)? His home was a log home of the month a few months ago. Larry said he had never built anything before his log home - he just took the class and went and built it. We asked Larry what the most important thing was that he learned at the class and (I'm paraphrasing here) he said "Skip taught us to figure things out when we ran into problems, so we didn't need to call him (or anyone else) every time we ran into something we didn't know how to do." I find it interesting that Sara said almost the same thing about building her home. ;)

I think many people forget that we do not "sell" a "class". We have a lifetime membership in an association. And after the initial membership, everything is free. Access to instructors, the monthly newsletter, member's meetings, free hands-on practice (by working on another member's log home project), and now the online forum.

Back in the old days all of our members were local, so it was easy to attend a meeting and get a refresher on anything that you forgot or needed help with. Today most of our members are from out of state (or country) so for the past year we've been trying to come up with a way to build community between members from all over the world. This forum should go a long way to bridge the gaps created by physical distance.

The forum is only a few days old and we're already seeing great exchanges of information between the members. Great job everyone -- please keep up the good work. :)

Steve

hawkiye

01-11-2005, 10:32 AM

I took the class back in Feb but have not built yet as it takes some time to acquire land and some of the tools. I grew up in the construction trades so am not an amateur when it comes to building. I have always been a very skeptical person and had some of the same concerns.

As someone mentioned there is a money back guarantee. However I seriously doubt you'll want your money back after attending. One of the things I did was compare and research some of the claims. Skip has been doing this for over 30 years. If it were a scam I am sure there would be all sorts of horrors stories

Being in construction I knew after studying it that Skips method was structurally sound. There are some sites on the Internet of Skips students building and documenting their build along with photos. One that I like is located at: http://home.mindspring.com/~kahle11/log.html You can email this guy and he will respond. Also on Skips site they have some new photos, one of a guy who took the class in the 70???s and built his home also in the 70???s and his home is ??? Still??? very beautiful and he just sold it for over $400,000

As I searched the net before I took the class I could only find a couple of negative comments and they were second and third hand and were on some forums frequented by certain kit builders. Not by anyone who went to Skips class. It turned out that one of the problems attributed to Skip???s method was not even a Skip style log home.

It might help to know what your experience level with construction or ???do it yourself??? is and some of the specific negatives you have heard. Also Skips site is quite thorough in answering questions. I think anyone regardless of skill level could takes Skips class and do this with some persistance. Yes if you don???t have any construction or do it yourself experience there is going to be a learning curve on how to swing a hammer for example. However you will learn all the things you need to build a log home in the class and part of that is realizing if you don???t have any of the experience that this will take, you???ll need to cut the learning curve there. Also when you attend, Skip???s home is testimony to the soundness of the technique and it???s one of the most amazing structures you???ll ever see and be able to examine close up.

Last but not least how could one go wrong learning from one of the original students of the late great Bruce Lee! ;)

I know you want to hear from more people who have built and I am sure you will but the forum is brand new so give it some time for people to learn of it and come and join. I am curious how you heard about it also since they just announced it to members a couple of days ago?

It sounds to me like your underlying concern may be putting out the money to attend. I know the feeling but some times you have to just move forward and make a decision. People spend tens of thousands on 4 years of college and often end up with little to show for it. You obviously are attracted to this sort of thing so follow your dream for once and get on with it ;)

Any way that???s my 3 cents

Blayne

mcdonis

01-11-2005, 11:00 AM

I found out from another board on Yahoo. I had basicly asked the same question there and someone pointed me to this board.

Yeah the money is a big issue, I live halfway across the country and its a big deal. I am not so much worried that is a con, I have heard enough and asked enough questions to feel that is for real.

rocklock

01-11-2005, 02:13 PM

On Camano, I found several individuals that have built homes after taking the class... I was impressed with one comment - this guy said his wife would not move into the home until he moved a support beam that was in the middle of a room. He said 'the log would not release the rebar after one month - he had to use a chain saw and a tourch to cut thrugh and relocate the support.'
I had some concerns about pinning using 1/2 inch rebar - but no longer. There are at least 5 log homes on Camano that have been built in the butt and pass style... each one unique. One on cross island road should be a log of the month home... Its beautiful.
Rocklock in Hawaii

Ellsworth

01-11-2005, 02:24 PM

Rocklock in Hawaii
Is that you David?

I sure hope things are going well for you over in Hawaii and that you're having fun getting everything ready to go on Camano (man, you just can't get away from living on an island huh lol).

I look forward to seeing you at our members meeting in Feb :) Until then, take care.

Weeks

01-11-2005, 03:17 PM

We're from SW Michigan and took Skip's class in 2002. We had already begun logging a couple acres of trees that had blown down that fall during a tornado, but we needed to know what to DO with them.

We were so thankful to come across Skip's class. We had originally wanted to build using the Swedish Cope method or something similar, but after attending the class we changed our minds. We learned so much from that weekend! AND...we now have a beautiful 42x46 log home made with full logs and with a walk out basement. We got our temporary C of O for the basement in the spring and are living there now while we finish the upstairs. We got the chinking started in the late fall so that's not completed, but will get started again as soon as the weather warms up in the spring. Over the holidays Rod got the stairs built so now we can go from the basement to the main floor without having to go outside. Hurray!

We have a gorgeous home thanks to what we learned at Skip's class. It's a lot of hard work, no doubt, and the style is not for everyone, but we couldn't be happier. Well...if the top were all done, maybe. :D

So...another two happy Skip grads reporting in.

Rod & Peg

Reb

01-12-2005, 12:59 PM

Hey, Shawn. I can understand your concerns, and I have met a few folks who took the course, never built anything and had a few complaints about it.

That said, my husband and I took the class in March 2003, and we're getting started on our project in October. (We've cleared the land, and the rest will wait until fall.) When I left the class, I had a few questions and things I didn't entirely understand, but to be honest, it was my own fault--I was a little timid about asking questions. My husband, who grew up around construction and recently became a plumbing contractor, understood everything.

When we submitted our plans to an engineer to stamp, he sort of chuckled and said, "Don't you think this is overkill?", pointing to several of Skip's suggestions. But, that gave us the confidence that we will be building a solid, great house.

We recently visited a couple in Atlanta who built a log home, Skip Style, and it was gorgeous. I have no doubts that we'll do as well as they did.

If you're not familiar with construction, building a home seems like a big endeavor. I would suggest volunteering with Habitat for Humanity for several house projects, and you will see that it is really not a big undertaking.

Then, you'll see how much better the construction style that Skip teaches is! :wink:

scarroll

01-15-2005, 06:33 PM

I'll try and make this short. I took the class last May, and have had a steady enthusiasm ever since about the contruction methods and building philosophy espoused by the Log Home Builders Association. I just recently signed a contract for a nice lot across from nature preserve land, and will soon be filling a shed with tools and discount windows.

I remember, the money back guarantee was what pushed me over the edge in deciding to take the class. In response to the word "scam", I will pretty much guarantee that anyone who has actually been to the class would not dream of using that word to describe these folks. They're top notch in terms of integrity. I think they're driven by the satisfaction of teaching and sharing something they believe in (namely the soundness of the construction method). Also there's an ethic of figuring things out for yourself and self-sufficiency. It's important to identify for yourself if this is not for you and be honest about whether you're up to it.

In regards to the web site: it advocates the association, the class, and the building methods used. Its job is to "sell" these to people who have stumbed across the web site. A strong advocacy tone can sound like "being sold a bill of goods". It is not up to a site promoting something to also be its own devil's advocate; it is up to the person doing the research to do his/her own homework.

I have never considered using the guarantee since... halfway through the class, I would say. Nor have I doubted any of the testimonials etc. on the web site in the 9 months since I originally read them.

This forum should add a new dimension to the association...

Maybe in a year and a half when my home is complete I'll remember to check back and ammend my comments if my feelings have changed at all :wink:

Thank you Steve, Ellsworth

woodrh

01-17-2005, 07:37 AM

I ditto all scarroll said...there is just no way anyone who actually attended the class, whether they ever build or not, would be less than satisfied with what is presented. It's not rocket science, and Steve and Ellsworth are'nt rocket scientists...they just happen to know very well what's involved in building a butt & pass style log home, and present it very well!

David C.

01-18-2005, 05:30 PM

Hello,

I just took the class this past weekend (jan. 15-16) and will say that it was worth my money. I think that you are expecting too much if you think that you will learn *everything* there is to know about building a house. However, I think that they do a very good job of explaining the general aspects of building a log house, things that you wouldn't think of on your own. Another benifit to the class is that is your lifetime mimbership to the association so you now have all the resources that it has to offer(i.e. members knowledge, this forum). They definetly gave me the feeling that I CAN build a home and overcome any problems that come my way.

just my 2cents.

david

mcdonis

01-20-2005, 01:19 PM

I recently found a forum where Skips class raised quite a discussion. I thought some might want to read.

http://www.lhoti.com/board/showthread.php?t=1055

Mostly it looked like people fell into 2 camps. I just wish that those who dont like or approve of this method would actually state whats wrong and not just bad mouth things.

Reb

01-20-2005, 01:26 PM

Quite a few of us made our way over there, if you'll notice. :wink:

Rebecca, also known as "Ruh Beh Ka" on the internet.

jgunn5066

01-20-2005, 03:21 PM

Yikes. That was some thread. Gotta love how some people feel the need to shoot something down when they don't know anything about it. Some smart guy once said "Don't hold strong opinions about something you don't understand" - and I usually took it in the context of politics, but I think it applies in this instance.

My favorite line:

"...just don't discount the advice that will get here from folks who have been in this business as long or longer than Skip."

It would be pretty hard to be in the business longer than Skip. Especially if you consider he's a 5th generation builder; that's more than a lifetime's worth of knowledge stuffed into that bearded head of his. :)

My perspective is this - the more doubters there are, the fewer competitors I have when I decide to quit my job and build & sell houses for cash. Works for me.

Steve

01-20-2005, 03:44 PM

I recently found a forum where Skips class raised quite a discussion.

Just for the record, we have no problems with anyone over at LHOTI, and we'd like to do our best to keep it that way. Please don't go over there being rude -- if you choose to join that thread about Skip, please be polite and friendly.

This is no poke at Reb -- good posts over there. ;)

-Steve

jgunn5066

01-20-2005, 06:15 PM

Ah, steve, methinks that is the difference between our association members and some other "enthusiasts" on the 'net. We know the class is good, we know we know what we're doing. We also know that the kit builders, a lot of times, are scammers.

You don't need to yell when you're right. ;)

Also, I think Skip's philosophy (and yours, if I'm not mistaken) of doing all this to HELP people, rather than just make a buck, fosters a positive community, not a competitive one.

Logbear

01-21-2005, 09:01 PM

I took the class back in 1982. My wife (girlfriend then) took the class about 1986 I think. Then we bought 5 acres of raw land. I bought a book on how to build a shed out of plywood and 2X4's so we could store stuff in it. That's how much of a novice I was. We lived in a trailer and built our house together. Except for two 6'X8' sheds, our house was the first thing I ever built. We used what we learned from the class to build the house. I read books and asked a lot of questions so I could do the electrical and plumbing work too. I rented a bobcat to dig the hole for the foundation and I nailed the last cedar shake on the roof. And I did everything in between. And I'm proud of it. I still have all my old notes from the class and I think my wife does too.

When we built our house we figured if we could build a house together we could probably get married and raise a family. Well we're still married and have 2 sons, ages 10 and 12. So I would say it worked.

When my kids are seriously thinking about what they want to do with their lives, I'm going to suggest taking Skip's class and I'll pay for it. I'll be reluctant to help them buy a car, and I'll help them go to college if they really want to go, but I will wholeheartedly encourage them to take the Log House class.

Reb

01-22-2005, 01:41 PM

This is no poke at Reb -- good posts over there. ;)

My first one was a little gung-ho, but I toned it down a bit. ;)

gregorama

01-22-2005, 02:52 PM

Yep, I went over to the LHOTI board and took a look; I was amazed at one post.. 8000 hours of training, then apprenticship? You can become a DOCTOR in less time! Now that sounds like a scam.. Think of the student loans and the eventual mediocre income to pay it off.. Not to mention 4-6 years of your life. BTW, y'all, I'm Greg, and I took the class in January 2000. I was just starting a family, and that anchored me in the beautiful hamlet of Federal Way, but I'm moving in 2 years back to my hometown, Juneau, AK and will build there. I've lived in 2 log buildings, one a handmade, 1 bedroom masterpiece built by one man in the remote outback of Southeast Alaska, the other a larger "Lodge Logs" building built with 10" dowels. Side by side, they looked like a skyscraper next to a hobbit den. The cabin (living room, bedroom, flush toilet/bathroom, kitchen, pantry) was a labor of love started in about 1940; the chinking was hand-carved willow precisely scribed so that a business card couldn't be slipped in anywhere. The log ends adjacent to the river rock fireplace were each scribed to match its respective rock, again to incredible tolerances. And get this; he totally hated power tools- he built the entire house, from felling, extracting, swedish coping, everything by hand, alone, in 2 years, while earning a living fishing and trapping. Don't tell me you need 8000 hours of training to turn out a quality product! I was fortunate enough to live there for 5 summers as a fishing guide and one winter (alone, if you don't count the dog). I tell my wife when I'm on the road I don't look other women, I just lust after the log trucks I pass...
Great job on the forum, folks; I'm looking forward to the exchange of information that makes this lifestyle a community!

Logbear

01-23-2005, 09:21 PM

8000 hrs? That's 4 years of full time work. In my previous post I said that besides two small sheds we never built anything else before building our house. My wife just reminded me that we did build a small log "laundry shed" to get a feel for drilling and spiking before we built the house. I just set the base logs on cement cinder blocks and went from there. Just last year I had a new water well put in and I decided to use the "laundry shed" as a "pump house". I lifted the shed off it's blocks with my boom truck and drug it across the yard to a new location. I'll post some pictures of the shed and moving it in webshots.

fulenchek

01-24-2005, 10:54 PM

The class as taught by Steve White changed my perspective on some things.

For instance, I can now no longer look at a reasonably straight stand of pine without finding myself analyzing height and taper, guessing rings per inch, and experiencing the involuntary urge to cut the trees down, peel them, and build a house out of them, mitigated only by the fact that I would be prosecuted and thrown in jail for doing so.

The ornamental trees around the office are reasonably safe (from me), but I think they'd be more appropriate as a tool shed.

Know what I mean?

-Jason

lisaandmark

01-25-2005, 08:14 AM

My husband attended Skip's class in 1999. We built our home in 2001. My husband Mark can't rave enough about the class. Without it we wouldn't have our home, and we are so happy to have accomplished this. We were able to build the home for about $75K. It is about 3000 sq. ft. on 10 acres with a barn. We probably could have built it for a lot less but I wanted to have my little luxuries like stainless steel appliances and a jaccuzzi tub.

Building this home enabled me to be a stay-at-home mom to my kids. I would never have been able to accomplish that without the seminar. Around here, single-wide trailer homes on acreages go for $150K and more. For $75K we could not have gotten much of a home if we went the conventional route.

At the same time we were building our home, a neighbor started his using a kit home. I can't even begin to tell you the problems he encountered putting his up. We were finished getting our shell up before he was and he had a whole crew helping! With us it was just Mark and me (and I wasn't much help as we had two very young children) and a few buddies to help out on a few weekends.

We had to go a little different route from Skip's method, but the principles are the same. We could not get logs in 50' lengths because of hauling problems. We had to settle for shorter logs. We did get the logs for free, however, on a friend's ranch. Because we worked with shorter logs, Mark didn't do butt and pass, he used more of a piece-en-piece style, but using Skips principles of the construction technique. I guess it is a good example of taking what was learned in class and adapting it to your individual situation.

We decided to do a gambrel-style roof to gain more living space on the top story, and because I always thought it would be neat to live in a barn. Mark added a wrap-around porch to protect the logs.

We are still working on finishing touches like trim and landscaping, and will add on a garage and a room over the garage sometime this year or next. We did add on an office/sunroom last year.

If you would like to visit a little site I put up about our house and the construction of it, feel free to visit: http://www.housethatmarkbuilt.com

We've been in the home for going over 3 years and have yet to encounter any problems at all. We even had a little write-up in our local paper because a reporter drove by and the house caught his eye.

That's my 2 cents I guess! All I can say is "thank you Skip"!!
Lisa

ChainsawGrandpa

02-20-2005, 10:37 PM

Took the class back around 1992. Was it worth it then? With Skip's
advice I went out and bought a very nice building lot for about $747.
I was a little late on the insulation for a house. Most was discarded,
they just didn't have the room for it and the company that owned it
paid to have about 1 1/2 semi truck loads hauled to the dump. I was
able to get several pickup loads for free. The insulation was foam,
and it was new. Never could have made the connection or dared to
ask if not for having attended.

Many, many more benefits...too much to list here. On my upcoming
house the saving will be in the $200,000 range. For me, yes the class
was worth every penny and so much more. I learned methods,
techniques, how to resource, how to find the good deals, how to deal
effectively with beaurocrats, and met a lot good friends through the
association. as I said, I took the class many years ago and it was
very, very good. I sat in on about 1/2 day of a class yesterday. Hard
to beat what Skip has done so well, but I would have to say that at the
very least Ellsworth and Steve are doing at least as good a job as
Skip did. As a disclaimer I must say that sometimes people become
embittered when the dew is off the rose. I've built houses before.
Somewhere around the middle of the project you look back and see
how far you've come, then look ahead and see how far you have to
go and it can be disheartening. If you got yourself into that situation
it can be emotionally devastating. If someone else taught you how
they did it, well, then you have someone to blame for your situation.
The best thing is that it is possible to build for cash. This makes the job
a fun adventure since there are no bankers and their deadlines breathing
down your neck.

The best advice I can give is:
Take a very honest assesment of yourself.
Do you finish projects?
If you made a mistake, do you tend to shift the blame?
Are you practical or pie in the sky?

The problems I have seen are, not enough practical common sense,
not paying attention in class, and reinventing the wheel.

For me the class was a once-in-a-lifetime gold nugget in a mountain of
dirt. This could be what you have always dreamed of, or could be a
waste of time. Everyone is different and this is not for everyone. It
certainly was for me though.
-Rick

ianebeggs

03-01-2005, 06:01 PM

My wife and I just took the class last weekend (Feb 19 & 20). Let me just say this; my wife was sketpical :wink: Luckily we have the type of relationship where we trust each other and she agreed to take the seminar. Actually, she insisted on coming too, even though it almost doubled the overall cost of the venture (we came from MD). That way I wouldn't be burdened with having all the info and her constantly asking me questions. Especially since sometimes I don't explain things very well.

I was really nervous about this class not living up to the hype and being some sort of "scam." I was even more nervous about my wife not approving of the content and as a consequence, I would never be able to risk this sort of thing in the future. I asked my brother (a lawyer in San Francisco) to look at the site and some of the "legal Kung Fu" on Skip's site and the first thing he said was "sounds like some crazy liberal nut job living out in the woods with the unabomber to me." I can't wait to send him a picture of our house and my mortgage statement, oh wait, I won't have a mortgage :D I should have known better though, those Californian's...... :twisted:

We were lucky since we were in the first class in the history of the Association to get books :D Everyone before us has had to write notes :shock: My wife would have soiled herself if that was the case. Knowing that everyone before had to write everything, she ranted about how wonderful the books were and how grateful she was to Steve and Mr. E for them. They made things SOOOOOO much easier than it would have been otherwise.

Needless to say, my wife is super excited about the prospect of not only building our own house, but earning a living building these things. We've already used the methods discussed in class to get $600 worth of glass blocks for $90. I probably could have gotten them cheaper but I didn't want to haggle that day. There seems to be many more deals up near Skip's neck of the woods but once we get to Tampa and start looking, I'm sure we'll find plenty.

I just can't say how much this class has changed our lives! We look at almost everything differently now. It has given my wife a sense that sometime the end catually does justify the means. Nothing comes without a price and to build a beautiful home and not owe any money on it, you will probably have to sacrafice some things. It will definitely pay off BIG TIME but it's all up to you.

I hope this is helpful. I can't say enough about the info and the instructors as well. My wife was a bit nervous when she saw Ellsworth get out of his truck and say he would be our instructor. With his beard and bald head. He's a bit scruffy to say the least. However, she learned not to judge a book by it's cover. Mr. E is obviously a very intelligent man and he's a lot nicer than I was expecting. These guys genuinely care about helping people. It is obvious when you talk to them.

Granted, we haven't built yet but I have no doubt that we'll do just fine. We have all the info and a wonderful support network to aid us in our journey.

Ian

dave

03-01-2005, 07:56 PM

You got books???!! :shock:
I have pages of scribbled, half-legible 'notes', and you got books?!
Yo, Steve, Ellsworth, can I have a book? ...please.

.......wow..they got books.......

Steve

03-01-2005, 08:25 PM

Heya Dave!

We definitely plan to make the books available to current members. When we have something ready, we'll post a message about how to get it in the member's area.

Don't panic. :)

Steve

Ellsworth

03-01-2005, 08:37 PM

My wife was a bit nervous when she saw Ellsworth get out of his truck and say he would be our instructor. With his beard and bald head. He's a bit scruffy to say the least.

Hey, I resemble that remark! :P

I thought I should post so that everybody can see that I look like a disarmingly nice guy :D ... not some scary, wild eyed, mountian man :twisted:

GammaRae

03-01-2005, 09:15 PM

We definitely plan to make the books available to current members. When we have something ready, we'll post a message about how to get it in the member's area.

Sweeeeeeet. Gimme! Gimme!

Ellsworth

03-01-2005, 09:23 PM

I started a new thread about the class manual in the members area, so we don't clutter up this thread with off topic posts...

http://www.loghomebuilders.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1579#1579

luthgarden

03-01-2005, 10:29 PM

After reading the recent thread regarding the unfortunate couple from Maine that was swindled by their log home builder, it is really too bad that they didn't discover Skip's class on the internet beforehand. So much grief could have been avoided. I consider myself lucky in finding this site and taking the class. If you have gotten this far and are perusing the forum, take the next step and take the class. A little knowledge and determination goes a long way.

GrafikFeat

03-01-2005, 11:30 PM

I started a new thread about the class manual in the members area, so we don't clutter up this thread with off topic posts...

http://www.loghomebuilders.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1579#1579

What about Scruffy Mountain Men?

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

:wink:

03-08-2005, 05:06 PM

While reading the site, I got really interested by what Skip was saying and it made a lot of sense. I was ready to drive over to Seattle for a class - but then i looked at the pictures of the log homes that have been built and realized they aren't the style I would choose. Is it possible to have soaring windows and sunrooms and all that fancy stuff with this type of construction? Is it possible to buy the great big huge logs that we prefer and not have chinking? Or perhaps I've been spending too much time looking through magazines... :shock: Thanks for any input on this.

Fred

03-09-2005, 11:15 AM

You can build anything you want Teri, we have the technology.

However, Skip's class will teach what to look for and watch for, and point out what's risky and what isn't, so just from that perspective it might be worthwhile even if you think his style of house/construction is for the birds.

He teaches a straight forward, solid, and not too expensive owner builder method, he talks about the other methods, ina compare and contrast fashion. And what I like is that the instructors have all built houses, and seen LOTS of them, so you are getting some " no kidding, there we were" practical experience.

He isn't trying to sell you anything like a house, so you are at worst out a weekend and class $, and you have a perspective on all the tricks and traps that a builder might decieve you with, or where you as a builder might try for a certain esthetic that could cost you a lot of time or money or structural strength.

greg@lhoti.com

03-11-2005, 11:18 AM

Reb

03-11-2005, 01:08 PM

I just discovered this Forum...nice job.

Just for the record, we have no problems with anyone over at LHOTI, and we'd like to do our best to keep it that way. Please don't go over there being rude -- if you choose to join that thread about Skip, please be polite and friendly.

As webmaster over at Lhoti.com, keeping a tight rein on folks with a passion for log building is not always the easiest thing. I have on more than one occasion used the Terry Tate test....ALWAYS assume you are speaking to your mother or Terry Tate (former NFL player). I appreciate the admonition above and hope my members will do the same.

Good luck on your Forum. You've gotten quite a number of posts and members in your breif life (as a Forum).
:)

Hey, Greg. :) Yes, forums sure can get into heated discussions sometimes! I always try to remember that the internet is actually a pretty small world... and The Law of Forums states that if you bite someone's head off, you'll eventually run across them in another discussion group. 8)

This actually happened to a friend of mine, recently. We're friends through a Natural Family Planning forum, and I know another girl through the Log Home Builder's Association, and the two of them happened to belong to the same health foods email list and live in the same city. Well, I mentioned to my friend that I knew someone who'd built a log home about an hour from her house, and mentioned the name... and she realized that it was the same girl on her health food email list that she'd recently gotten into a pretty big "argument" with!

If they'd just been polite to each other, they could have found out how much they had in common. ;)

Six degrees of separation is more like three, on the internet!

Steve

03-11-2005, 04:07 PM

Heya Greg - welcome to our little corner of the Internet! Please stop by any time. :)

The Terry Tate Test is an excellent idea, and we should all remember that intelligent minds can disagree on things sometimes. Being rude about an opinion won't convince anybody, but being polite might at least help get a point across. ;)

Glad to meet you Greg, thanks for the kind words.

Steve

judyzucati

03-12-2005, 06:16 AM

I was wondering what people who have actually built a home after attending Skips class thought about his class now and their homes quality.

Hi there,

I took Skip's class back in the mid-eighties and learned everything I needed to know in that one weekend. I took notes and paid close attention and decided that I could build a butt and pass method log house. I drew my own plans and they passed through the county (building permits) on the first try. The work was hard and I gained muscle in places a girl shouldn't have them, I'm sure.

At first, I missed the concept of notched logs which look so pretty and rot so quickly if unattended to. I notched some interior support logs with a little chainsaw and got even more muscles. My only regret is that I never actually lived in the house ... and I'm sad for my children who lost their family home when their father died and it was sold out from underneath them. My youngest son still thinks of the house as his true home and has dreams of building his own log home. Right now, he's in Alaska and I hear that's a pretty good place to do it.

I also dream of building another log cabin, smaller and just for myself. I remember everything Skip taught me and plan on using the same construction method if I ever get the chance to live out that dream.

Just my 2-cents,

Judy DeNeal-Zucati
Bellingham, Washington

loghomefun

12-12-2005, 08:51 PM

I was wondering what people who have actually built a home after attending Skips class thought about his class now and their homes quality.

Hi there,

I took Skip's class back in the mid-eighties and learned everything I needed to know in that one weekend. I took notes and paid close attention and decided that I could build a butt and pass method log house.
Judy DeNeal-Zucati
Bellingham, Washington

I have not built yet, but I left the class feeling the same way Judi did. I actually knew and understood how to build a log home, and I left knowing that I can do it.

The instructors were great, covering everything from A to Z. Patient with all the questions, always careful to make sure everyone understood what was bveing discussed.

Someone else on this thread said that they do not just "kick you out the door" after the class, which is very true. I have gotten several questions answered over the last year just by sending one of them a quick email every now and then. And this forum is the bomb :!: I have just been reading the members area this week and already found the answers to two nagging questions that I was confused about.

These guys are for real, and their desire to be helpful really shows. It is so unusal to encounter such a great group of people

Doug