A Book For Everyone To Read Before Building

[WalkingHorseLady]

Hello Everyone,

I decided to post this in the general area so that the people waiting to take the class can benefit while dreaming of a log home. I'm currently planning my log home (start 2008) and came across a book that, at least for me, will save me many THOUSANDS in construction AND future property taxes :D :twisted: I checked and didn't see it on our book list and want to share this to give back some for all I've learned so far from the class and this board. I don't think it's in print anymore but I found a used copy through Amazon for cheap ($4.00). It's called "Your Low-Tax Dream Home" by Steve Carlson. On the cover it also says "A new approach to slashing the cost of home-ownership". It's not about a certain WAY of building, but of how to build to especially save on property taxes :D :D It covers ideas about green building, only building what you really need, a lot of things that we log home lovers embrace anyway. But the cool thing is this writer is a former property tax-assessor so he has an inside scoop on so many things we are kept in the dark about. I'm still reading but have already called and talked to a Clallam county (WA) tax-assessor to pick her brain. She agreed she's never had someone ask questions before they built and was most helpful and insightful, not knowing of course about me reading this book. I now look forward to the day when she will come to see my house so I can point out all the things that will keep my taxes very low. After she leaves then I can "finish" the inside :lol: 8)

I will tell you that she told me that a plain cement slab is the cheapest flooring and a tile one the most expensive. And that a few hundred square feet of floor space one way or the other doesn't affect the tax amount too much. I plan on calling her again for more questions. Keep asking and listening long enough and it's amazing what one can learn, just keep the book to yourself! :twisted: :wink:

Trust me on this as IMHO it's a must read, and hope you find a copy.

WalkingHorseLady

[ZandarKoad]

A second hidden basement won't affect the property value either... Unless you tell the tax assessor about it. But then, you deserve to be taxed...

[kyle]

Funny you mentioned this because I had called my county's assessment office yesterday and left a message to quiz them on ways to keep my taxes at a minimum. Still waiting for a return call.

[grannyk]

Not sure if we'll ever get to build our "dream log home" or not but just looking at properties recently I stopped by the assesors office and found out that there is quite a discrepency between small towns here on taxes. It pays to check this out folks and also look at upcoming legislation as they told me here there is a bill pending to start taxing wooded lands as residential and not farm property unless you have at least 5 acres of actual planted crops with it. Good things to know whether building or buying a home! Think I'll check out that book too, maybe I can borrow it from my library? :D

[Basil]

I guess if you raise beef cattle you are not a farmer according to that new legislation, huh? I have a herd of angus but don't have any "planted" crops, just hay.

Here in Kentucky, farmland is taxed at $500/acre, regardless of location or how seriously you farm. Since land sells for about $2000/acre, it's a real break to those of us with acreage.

[WalkingHorseLady]

Hey Granny, what state are you considering building in? And is this pending legislation a state or federal thing?

And Kyle, the neat thing about this book is it gives you detailed insight so you'll know what questions TO ask the assessor. For instance, when I called my future assessor and asked a generic "What can I do to keep my taxes low?" she was at a loss for words. But then when I started asking specific questions based on what I've learned from the book, she had plenty of information to share. I made her see that I'm not trying to dodge my fair share, but that I want to build so that I don't get taxed out of my home as the years roll on (and I'm only 48 so I've got plenty of rolling to do :) ).

Building a house that you love but may not appeal to most buyers has its advantages tax-wise, as it's seen as not desirable/easy to sell so not worth as much as other homes around yours. But if you follow LHBA ideals you know you'll be able to sell and get your money out of it since your costs of construction were so low. When you call realize that each county probably has more than one assessor so you can ask to talk to the one that covers your parcel. Then you can call another day and ask the same questions from another assessor and see if you get the same answers, plus you'll learn even more. All this information will tell you what things you'll want to wait and add to your home AFTER the assessor comes. And yes, you don't have to let them in, but if you don't then they have to guess what's inside and tax accordingly. If you think your tax is too high and appeal, they won't change it until you let them in.

From what I've read Clallam county only has about 60,000 residents :D and yet I know for sure they have at least two assessors. Even though assessors have a manual to follow, no two assessors will come out with the same figures. I feel like talking to more than one will give me a more thorough understanding, even though I am stuck with whomever is assigned to the area where my land is. Knowledge is power 8) .

Keep us posted Kyle as I'd like to know what you learn.

WalkingHorseLady

[sparky]

Excellent tip :!: Great find :!:

I checked my local library and they listed it but it had been "withdrawn" :twisted: Oh the evil way's of "the man" :!: :twisted:

Just a reminder, if your local library does not have it you can inner library loan it from any library in the country by talking to your local librarian. Sometimes the library will request you pay the shipping, or as in our area the service is Rick's favorite price............FREE. :lol:

Sparky

[Kola]

I learned that here in my county, assessors have no legal right to enter your home/buisness or even step on your property.

They can ask you to inspect your home...and most people say yes..because they think they have to let them in.

I said no to an assessor inspection and asked them nicely not to even trespass on my property. I also have signs, similar to the ones on Skips site.

Check your county laws.

Kola

[Basil]

Be careful doing this, though. If you don't let them on the property, and let them inspect the property to give a fair assessment, they just eyeball it from the road. Since you didn't cooperate with them, they don't give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe there's a fourth bedroom in there. I'll assess it assuming it does. Looks like it has about 6000 square feet. Maybe it has a basement. Point is you get a high assessment. You have the right to fight the assessment but unless you can prove those things aren't there, their assumptions will stand. Then you can either pay the high tax or let them on your property to perform the job they came for. I know poeple that do this for a living and they told me this themselves. They are required to put a value on your place.

Unless you are going to fight the whole structure of taxation, or have a basement made of solid gold, you'll find that it's easier just to let them assess your place. Build to keep the assessment low, then let them asess, then finish.

[Kola]

I have heard that, Basil..good points.

When I did a complete renovation on my clinic (southwestern architecture, inside and out), the building changed dramatically from my original plans (more lavish). When finished (then being nieve) I proudly strolled the assesors thru my building. I had no idea they would then raise my property taxes from 500 per year to 5000. I found out later I didn't have to let them come through. I was not happy as this was a old run down condemn building at one time. This was my reward for making a old building look nice?? I did some research and comparisons of other similar buildings around town. I protested their assessment and had it dropped to 3500 per year. I then sent a registed letter to them to stay off my property.

One could always show them a building plan permit which could show your "rough" (cough cough) draft..complete with linoleum and commerical carpet..(instead of tile and wood flooring)..get the basement unfinished for umm.. ping pong table for kids. etc..if they assume certain things I am sure one could be creative in playing their game...

Ok, here I go whining again..I really have problems complying with people who assault my God-given rights. IMO they have no juristiction/authority over me even with their illegal laws. But not everyone could sleep at night by lying, because basically that is what you are doing. (and remember these idiots are lying to you). I personally, can sleep fine. There comes a point when enough is enough and I have no probs doing ANYTHING to protect my personal rights. Tax assessors and other government agencies invade a persons privacy and take away our right to life, liberties and persuit of happiness.
We have to start saying no and/or doing whatever it takes to fight back...maybe not on such a large scale (that sounds off alarms) but on a smaller scale.

My loghome will be designed and presented to the county to look like a hunting cabin and omit from lavish things. I will be creative. One could hide that second bathroom by putting a wall up later and plumbing it afterwards. After final inspection I will do what I want. I guess there are risks, yes but I believe in fighting for what is left of my freedom and if that includes risks I am willing to take them. My posted signs will be enforced.

On the other hand if you go full-bore and oppose and fight the authorities in courts you RARELY, if ever win and you then create a label for yourself.
You are then labeled a "combatant resistor" and according to BushCo you are a "terrorist". Very few people challenge "the sytem" and I have never met anyone (face to face) who has won. Someone else mentioned here it may be wiser to stay just below the radar. I tend to agree with him. I wish this forum was more open to these type of topics although I do understand the complications involved.

Maybe Steve and Ellsworth will have good advice at the class. I am zooming out there today.

Kola

[10acresATV]

Hey Kola, after a rant like that, I am looking forward to meeting you at the class tomorrow! Go get 'em!

All that government control and tax greed is enough to make you move to the Alaska bush. The $100 a year I pay up there beats the stuffin out of the $2400 they get on my house in Vancouver!

[Kola]

Hey Greg!..it was nice meeting you! ..the class rocked.

keep in touch.

"Kola" 8) kirk

[10acresATV]

Sorry we didn't get much chance to talk. I wanted to get the 3-1/2 hour drive over with before it got too late. --Monday morning still comes eary and I still owe my soul to the company store. I was just reading your posts about the tipi. That's some cool stuff.

[Kola]

Yeah Greg, I blew friday and monday off as I had the luxury? to close up shop...the downside to being self employed and blowing days off equals no pay.
I did get to do some driving (getting lost, lol) around Washington and loved the smell of Spring and all the blossomed plants and trees..and the beautiful creeks, river streams and the coastal waters..wow!
..I wasn't used to all those pesky bugs tho.'..skeeters everywhere.

..and yes, the tipi is pretty cool. I looked at yurts but they were way out of my price range..if I had a wife, kids, parakeets, gerbils and mother-in-law, I would have probally done the yurt but for 1-2 people, a tipi should suffice. You can get tipis as big as 30 ft in diameter..thats huge.

Cheers and here's to "ridge pole envy"
Kola

[GammaRae]

Kola,

You could build a Yurt pretty inexpensively. I designed and started to build a 30'-footer that I figured I could build for $3000 (minus the deck). That included the reflectix and 18 gauge vinyl-cover polyester cover made by someone else.

Those big Yurt companies want a whole lotta dough for those things.

[Kola]

Gamma,

good thinking on DIY'ing a yurt. "Yurt" is a funny name...wonder how the name originated? I would worry about them holding up in high winds and stuff..if you made your own, you would need some good stitching and hold downs as the side walls would take on direct vertical wind gusts. One could probally sew up a tipi cover too and save a wholle lotta buckeroos.

It just goes to prove.
Theres always a cheaper way!

Kola

[ponyboy]

The word yurt is originally from the Turkic word meaning "dwelling place" in the sense of "homeland"; the term came to be used in reference to the physical tent-like structures only in other languages. In Russian, the structure is called "yurta" (юрта). (There is an obsolete term "kibitka" (кибитка).) From Russian, the word came into English, and is also the basis for the term horde, meaning house or clan. (copied from wiki)

I saw a couple of these while I was on R&R in Kyrgyzstan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yurt

[Vern Street]

We found the book (used) on Amazon and got it for $7.49, including shipping. Got it in the mail yesterday!

Vern and Sara Street

[WalkingHorseLady]

Glad to see someone else found a copy. Happy reading Vern and Sara. I see my post has made a full circle turn back to the book :lol: I enjoyed reading all the posts in between though. If others can't find a copy maybe you and I can sell ours and make a few bucks for our log homes 8)

Take Care All!

WalkingHorseLady

[NordicPrincess]

I just ordered this book on Amazon. There are 7 copies left, for anyone interested.

[rreidnauer]

Still waiting for mine to show up through Ebay. :cry:

Probably went media mail. (ick)

[NordicPrincess]

Just finished reading this book. It is excellent! There is so much information in it and written so well, that I couldn't put it down.

A must read IMO, for anyone interested in saving money and creating unusual and beautiful home ideas.

Thanks WalkingHorseLady for telling us about it.

[WalkingHorseLady]

You are most welcome :!: To save money I may turn half of my log home into one of those "piggy rooms" :lol: :wink:

WalkingHorseLady

You're only as good as the chances you take.

[NordicPrincess]

That is a great idea! Imagine all of the "stuff" that would be out of sight, out of mind; but within easy reach when you wanted it.

A "piggy room" is something I never would have thought of, but boy does it make sense!

[Curtis]

There is one left, I just ordered one for 10.00 bucks.
I have wasted more money on "Log Home books" that advocate notched construction and jack screws than you can imagine. I have no desire to monkey around with cutting saddles for future rot and bugs. It is also very labour intensive, cut fit, cut fit....etc.
Don't buy these books I'll send you mine if people are that interested.

Curtis

[Curtis]

I just got mine. So far a very good read. Makes me want to go looking for "pink trailers"

[WalkingHorseLady]

Me too Curtis! I have an extra wide 16' flatbed trailer designed without metal sides so it is completely flat. I have used it over the years for lots of things and built my own wooden sides as needed. Now when I see it I can't help but think about the tax-free lightweight building I could build on it and use as a workshop, storage, you name it. And of course I'd paint it pink :lol: :wink:

WalkingHorseLady

[Curtis]

Sounds like you're moving in the right direction.
Some of the idea's that are discussed are items that I have looked at already such as thermal mass heating. The Finn's use thermal mass fireplaces regularly for heating their homes. I was looking into tulikivi soapstone heat units. Over the course of many years the cost of the unit would more than justify itself by not being part of the assesment so I wouldn't be buying it back from the government once a year.
My house will be anchored to the earth but as much as possible will be unattached such as a wood burning cook stove (it is moveable).
Very very little will be "built in" and there will be few walls
I also have a lot of old solid oak furniture such as a freestanding cupboard and an amoire.
I don't know how they would view a clawfoot bathtub/shower.
The book describes many of the things I grew up with back on my Pappy's farm in Pennsylvania such as cold cellars, piggy rooms etc.
Trying to keep the devil from his due is not a new idea but it takes vigilance.

[rreidnauer]

I just got mine. So far a very good read. Makes me want to go looking for "pink trailers"

Dang it. Guy on Ebay didn't come through, had to file a dispute for refund. (but at least he did refund the money, but not before filing complaint) Ordered another on Amazon for $10.

Waiting again. (or, still . . . . . whatever) :roll:

[zato_ichi]

Ya'll might want to try Half.com, I just ordered this book today over there for 6 and some change. In fact I get most of my books there, I just recently got D C Beard's American Boys handy book for my sons for around 2.00.

I usually only buy books movies and Cds on there and a lot of them a publisher overstock or used book stores, so far I have not been let down on the quality. Most ship media mail so its reasonable too.

[greenthumb]

Y'all might want to try bestbookbuys.com for comparing the cheapest/best place to buy books. I ended up getting mine through an amazon.com seller(well, ordered it a few days ago). It came out to 10 or 11 after shipping, but wasn't the cheapest. It sounded like it was in the best shape for the price.

So, while I'm waiting patiently for my copy, can anyone explain what a 'pink trailer' and a 'piggy room' are for?

[WalkingHorseLady]

I'm pinched for time but here's the short of it. A piggy room is like a root cellar but more modernized. The "pink trailers" refer to land for sale that nobody wants because there's a pink mobile home next door, or some other trashy-type of reason.

WalkingHorseLady

[greenthumb]

Thanks Walkinghorselady. I think I'll have several piggy rooms in my house. :lol:

edit- and now that I think about it, my folks do have a guy next door with a real pink trailer. :shock: :lol:

[Cbear429]

Thanks for the suggestion Walking Horse Lady, awaiting book from Amozon.
KOLA, I read up on that "NAU" thing on congress.org. I sent an email to Congress and Senate, no reply yet!!! Your right, we need to wake up.

[deepfacets]

I just finished reading the book . . . it was pretty addictive. When you learned about 1 idea, you wanted to learn about 2, 3, 4, etc.

The book was definitely more than just about taxes. It had a lot to do with economizing construction costs by design & choices . . . which many times could be translated into lower taxes. Either way . . . incorporating even only 1 of the many concepts will be worth the time & money for the book.

I made lots of notes & highlites . . . now my wife is going to read it. Of course she'll let me know what is (or isn't) to her style or willingness. The book does a better job of conveying better & smarter doesn't always cost more than I am able to do . . . so I'll be curious to see how much more my wife agrees with the book than she agrees with me :lol:

[rreidnauer]

Woo hoo! Finally got the book. Now to see what all the buzz is about . . . . . . . . . . .

[Shark]

Mine is on the way.

[Kola]

there will be a test on friday

study up

[Timber]

When I did a complete renovation on my clinic (southwestern architecture, inside and out), the building changed dramatically from my original plans (more lavish). When finished (then being nieve) I proudly strolled the assesors thru my building. I had no idea they would then raise my property taxes from 500 per year to 5000. I found out later I didn't have to let them come through. I was not happy as this was a old run down condemn building at one time. This was my reward for making a old building look nice?? I did some research and comparisons of other similar buildings around town. I protested their assessment and had it dropped to 3500 per year. I then sent a registed letter to them to stay off my property. < Kola


I know Kola is still MIA but I read where you can do just what he did any usually you will win. Why? Because hardly anyone ever challenges the 800 pound gorilla! People just go along--ok we pay you happy! In fact my parents have been complaining about there taxes --assessed every year-is getting to high-I told them to do what Kola did-challenge them/the assessment~ hey $1500 in Kolas pocket is better than the "establishments" and that is yearly.

Ron

[greenthumb]

I bought my copy on the Amazon.com auction sellers area from seller 'UpperAccess'. IIRC, he is the author/publisher of the book, shipping was fast and it was also the best price I found online at the time. I am happy with the book, it was worth the read. It would be nice, however, to get some updates as I imagine some of the information has changed a little over the last 20 years.

[Shannonbeth]

Hello Everyone,

I decided to post this in the general area so that the people waiting to take the class can benefit while dreaming of a log home. I'm currently planning my log home (start 2008) and came across a book that, at least for me, will save me many THOUSANDS in construction AND future property taxes :D :twisted: I checked and didn't see it on our book list and want to share this to give back some for all I've learned so far from the class and this board. I don't think it's in print anymore but I found a used copy through Amazon for cheap ($4.00). It's called "Your Low-Tax Dream Home" by Steve Carlson. On the cover it also says "A new approach to slashing the cost of home-ownership". It's not about a certain WAY of building, but of how to build to especially save on property taxes :D :D It covers ideas about green building, only building what you really need, a lot of things that we log home lovers embrace anyway. But the cool thing is this writer is a former property tax-assessor so he has an inside scoop on so many things we are kept in the dark about. I'm still reading but have already called and talked to a Clallam county (WA) tax-assessor to pick her brain. She agreed she's never had someone ask questions before they built and was most helpful and insightful, not knowing of course about me reading this book. I now look forward to the day when she will come to see my house so I can point out all the things that will keep my taxes very low. After she leaves then I can "finish" the inside :lol: 8)

I will tell you that she told me that a plain cement slab is the cheapest flooring and a tile one the most expensive. And that a few hundred square feet of floor space one way or the other doesn't affect the tax amount too much. I plan on calling her again for more questions. Keep asking and listening long enough and it's amazing what one can learn, just keep the book to yourself! :twisted: :wink:

Trust me on this as IMHO it's a must read, and hope you find a copy.

WalkingHorseLady
This sucks, there are none left on amazon and i can't seem to find em anywhere else :-(

[WalkingHorseLady]

Shannon,Keep searching and if you don't find one send me a pm with your contact info and I'll sell you mine, for a tiny profit of course. But the profit goes into my log fund so it's worthwhile! Fear is temporary. Regret is permanent.

[Shannonbeth]

Shannon,Keep searching and if you don't find one send me a pm with your contact info and I'll sell you mine, for a tiny profit of course. But the profit goes into my log fund so it's worthwhile! Fear is temporary. Regret is permanent.


Thanks, if i can't find one, i'll get at ya!

[greenthumb]

Maybe this will help:

http://www.upperaccess.com/books.asp

Look at the very bottom of the page.

[lbrowne]

I've been looking for this book for sometime also. I'll call Upper Access on Monday to see if they have more than one copy. Does anyone have one available?

[Shannonbeth]

Maybe this will help:

http://www.upperaccess.com/books.asp

Look at the very bottom of the page.
Thanks for the link! I just ordered one!

[Dennisa]

Ordered mine from Amazon. You'll learn alot from it.

[Shannonbeth]

Ordered mine from Amazon. You'll learn alot from it.
I was going to order one from them yesterday, but they were all gone.

[lbrowne]

Amazon sellers have been out for some time - or at least they were all sold out the past times I've looked. I didn't realize that Upper Access is a publisher. Ordered one from them also. Thank you for the link, greenthumb.

[spiralsands]

I got one from Amazon last month. Then, there were more than a few available.

[GT.]

amazon went crazy : $50 for a copy today !
But i found better place to buy it: http://www.bookch.com/house.htm - scroll down
They tell:
We've slashed the price of this small-press classic that has helped so many people to obtain better houses. Why? A big publisher has issued a revised edition entitled The Best Home for Less (Avon, $12.50). The newer edition should be at your bookstore, or you could special-order a copy from us. Meanwhile, we still have some copies of the original (1989) book, and the information in it is still good. So while supplies last, we're offering the 1989 edition cheap! At this price, you'll want to order copies for any of your friends who might be thinking about home ownership.

* Item# 226*2
* 300 pp., softcover
* Sale price, just $4.95

I found newer edition here from $1.74 - http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0380765403/ref=dp_olp_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1206939372&sr=8-4
Good luck !

[tanderson]

I just ordered a copy from Amazon for about $9, plus shipping. I'm glad I'll be able to read this BEFORE the class.

Tom

[Scoutman]

I'm still trying to read all the posts on the public side. Maybe I'll finish before I start building, but good golly! There's ONLY 5,948 threads and 54,332 posts (as I write this)!! Found this one last night. It was posted by WalkingHorseLady back in '07. She hasn't posted since '09.

She posted about the book titled "Your Low-Tax Dream Home". I'm sure it will always be relevent even tho a little outdated. It's still available and I ordered it last night. Total cost was $10.45. Some of you that are still active also bought it at that time. For those that did, was it helpful?

This is the original thread. http://community.loghomebuilders.org/showthread.php?2261-A-Book-For-Everyone-To-Read-Before-Building

[bretstep]

that one is on my reading list as well. either way I think it will be a good enough read to grab a few nuggets out of. I currently have as many books out as AI can at the library and we have it at our local one so it is in my next batch of "to reads"

[pinewood]

Thanks for the tip Scoutman. I had not read this thread. Gotta order this book! Against my wishes, I moved into a new construction home in a master planned, HOA controlled, golf course community back in '05. I failed to pay attention to the mill levy and there was no past history of previous year taxes. What a shocker to get my first tax bill in excess of $4,000. Went to the assessor's website and looked up all the homes on each side of my street (about 30 homes) and realized that my taxes were higher than all others so I decided to file a dispute. I provided all the information of each address, square footage, garage spaces etc., etc., to the tax assessor's office. Got an e-mail about two weeks later from the county assessor thanking me for providing the information to them. He explained that they had made a mistake and all the other homes in my "filing" were undervalued and would be corrected and mine would not be reduced! For some strange reason, my house gets TP'd each year new assessments are mailed. LOL 8) This government money machine will be up for sale this summer so I can move on to my log home build. Gotta order this book!

~Dane~

[Ggrape]

You can find the updated version(1992) The Best Home for Less by the same author on ebay for a couple of dollars.
http://www.ebay.com/ctg/Best-Home-Less-Steve-Carlson-1992-Paperback-Revised-Updated-Subsequent-/176513?_pcatid=4&_trksid=p4712.m570.l1313&_rdc=1
If anyone is looking for the book.

[dazedandconfused]

thanks I ordered one for under 5 bucks with shipping classic