I get it!

[ryoung99]

The next question, will be you get what?

In Sacramento this weekend I attended a Log Home Expo, put on by the different builders. After attending I could not be more thankful that I have found this site and had a little knowledge. To make a long story short I was amazed at the "quality" of the demo logs. All I could think was if this is what the demo looks like, what would a home look like.

The builders that did scribe, their logs looked in good shape, the cope logs on display were all horrible.

I took some pictures using the camera on my phone, but in short I was shocked to see the verticle cracks in the log. Thus showing that the coping process is inherantly bad for the integrity of the log.

The most time at the Expo was spent with chinking professionals to learn as much as I could about this process. Spent quite a bit of time with one of them, and he agreed that the butt and pass method was the best for maintaining the integrity of the logs, but stated that the chinking would be more difficult (but worth the effort if done right).

If I knew how to post the photo it would be obvious what the deficiency in the cope method.

Rick[/img]

[greenthumb]

I think I went to the Atlanta version of the same Expo a few weeks back- and know exactly what you're talking about. I was well against the kits before taking the class anyway though.

Don't worry about chinking until you take the class. ;)

[rreidnauer]

He he he! :lol: Yea Rick, and you didn't even get the whole picture from the LHBA class yet. It's fun to walk around a kithome, and mentally point out all the things that are done wrong. I did this at the Eastern Sports & Outdoors Show in Harrisburg, PA last year, where they had about five different manufactures. Funny, none of the reps approached me even though I spent quite a bit of time hanging around their displays. (might have had something to do with the LHBA patch sewn on my jacket! :wink: )

Just don't point out these deficiencies in front of a friend who owns a kit home, or else they may not be your friend for long. (the truth can hurt) :wink:

[Kola]

I am a bit puzzled. There are many many logbuilding companies yet not one builds butt and pass? Why do all the logbuilding companies build a style that is inferior? I would imagine there would be a few other companies that took the same approach and would try and built the best loghome available but I do not see that happening. Why? Do these builders purposely avoid building the best style of loghome or do they sincerely beileve their style is more superior to the butt and pass. Anyone care to explain?

Kola

[Mark OBrien]

I am a bit puzzled. There are many many log building companies yet not one builds butt and pass? Why do all the log building companies build a style that is inferior? I would imagine there would be a few other companies that took the same approach and would try and built the best loghome available but I do not see that happening. Why? Do these builders purposely avoid building the best style of log home or do they sincerely believe their style is more superior to the butt and pass?. Anyone care to explain?

Kola

Kola, it almost always comes down to the almighty dollar. They put so many useless extras into kit homes so they can sell these items to you. The cost of kit homes go up exponentially with the screw jacks and all the other crapola that they sell. Logs are comparably cheap. All of the other extras and "amenities" are what jacks up the profit margins. If the public saw how simple and inexpensive the butt and pass method are they kit builders would be out of business.

[WalkingHorseLady]

Kola,

The reason they don't build using butt-and-pass is because they need a construction method where they can build it at their factory, take it apart, and sell it to you. You can't take a butt-and-pass home apart, hence they can't sell these as a kit. Plus they also make big bucks taking beautiful whole logs and turning them into round dowels and convincing you this needs to be done. :)

WalkingHorseLady

[Kola]

I could never work for a company that was screwing the consumer.

The ol' saying rings true, "What goes around comes around."

Kola

[RockEngineer]

There are many log styles and building systems out there because there are many people who like different looks. Not everyone likes round logs with chinking lines. If you don't like this style you won't like the LHBA butt and pass style.
Not every kit manufacturer or hand crafter is out to cheat you. There are problems and advantages to each style of log home. You just need to make sure that whatever style you choose the builder has resolved the inherant problems with that style of construction. EVERY STYLE HAS ITS UNIQUE PROBLEMS.
LHBA has a good method but it is not for everyone. They have thought through and solved many of the inherant problems with their style of butt and pass building. It is a method that can be done by a person with a few basic skills but it has to be done on site and can be labor intensive. It is not easily mass produced.
I just had to throw my moderate opinion in here. :twisted:

[Susan]

Coming from a dovetail loving lady.......Thank you Richard. :)

[ryoung99]

Please do not take my original post out of context, it was merely to state that I see why you might not want to use a cope method as it appears (to the untrained eye) to compramise the log.

I personally was not passing judgement on any builder. Although I would state I would not go into a marketing presentation with a flawed demo. Granted they can talk their way around the flaw, but the flaw is there none the less.

Not to say the show was a total bust, I got some pretty cool ideas of what could be done to add additional asetetic value to the home in simple ways and learned a bit about building a rock fireplace. Found a great little saw mill that will come in handy as well.

Personally this quest for me is about doing something I have never done before and building a long term home for my family (and hopefully future generations). The gathering place for family that I did not have when I grew up. A place that where the legends of family will far out live my wife and I. Building a legacy for my children and grandchildren, a place they can bring their children and tell them how their grandfather built the home for them and their yet to be born children. It is possible that this dream is way to grand, but we have to dream big to accomplish big things, and our family stake and legacy is will be a life worthly accomplishment.

Best wishes,
Rick

[rreidnauer]

I am a bit puzzled. . . . . other companies that took the same approach and would try and built the best loghome available but I do not see that happening. Why?

Similar situation: I often thought, "Geez, I wish the manufacturer would have just spent another $10 for a good jack for my car." But to the number crunchers, the $10 over 50,000 cars, is a half million bucks saved for their profits. Had they spent the extra money, would you expect the consumer to absorb the cost?

Americans are really into the "looks" of things, without a whole lot of consideration for quality. (hense the rash of spec home purchases and particle-board furniture) If it looks pretty, people will buy, and the manufacturers profit.

[adubar]

Oh, sooo true Rod!


You can see the same thing with tools and cars.
I call it the international "bait and switch." Mitsubishi does the same things with power turbines. They'll hand machine every part for the turbines that are the demos for the American buyers. Then, wait a year or two for delivery and the ones that come off the boat have some of the worst workmanship possible. In a muti-million (or even billion) dollar project with deadlines you can't very well 'send em back.'

-A