Will Skip's methods meet code?

[slbrown]

:?: I am new to this forum. In fact I'm still on the wait list for a class.

There seems to be a lot of enthusiasm for Skip's methods. However, a few statements on his website concern me. It something to the effect that, these methods are particularly money saving when you have freedom from unconstitutional governmental regulation. This has got me wondering whether his methods will pass code (for example, my property is in southern Colorado). Before I get too far into this, someone please answer my question.

While I'm at it, maybe I'll ask two more questions?

2) I'm trying to plan ahead. What's a rough estimate for how much I can expect to pay for logs?

3) While I'm waiting for a class (which may be next year), does anyone have recommendations for a book or books I could read to give me a better idea of this style of building?

Thanks for any help.

Steve

[JeffandSara]

Hi, Steve--

We built in California in a high-level earthquake zone required to meet all building codes. We had to have a structural engineer approve our planes, but we had no problems following Skip's methods.

Cost of logs will vary INCREDIBLY both from region to region and circumstance to circumstance and year to year (sometimes even month to month). I doubt anyone can give you a truly meaningful estimate.

We've never seen much written about butt-and-pass construction, unfortunately.

Best wishes.
Sara

[rreidnauer]

Meet code? Ha! They far exceed code requirements! I think you've misunderstood Skip's statement. What he means is, it's very affordable where you don't have some local authority imposing all sorts of (IMHO, unconstitutional) fees and charges for permits and inspection.

Yea, the log prices, like Sara says, can be anywhere from free to exorbitant, depending on how willing you are to get them. Most folks find a balance between money and effort. Obviously, if you don't have much money, you'll naturally make a larger effort.

I too never seen books covering construction of B+P. Sure, the style is mentioned in log home books, but never as the main subject. I suspect there's a few reasons for this. One, it's such a simple method, that there really isn't a whole lot of (and I'm trying to find a delicate word for this without insulting anyone) rocket science that would fill volumes of books. Two, it wasn't a popular style for the original homesteaders, because it's a method requiring chinking. That would have been one more thing they would have had to transport with them. Scribing was easier than transporting materials. And three, since many writings are supported through advertising, and this style of building isn't possible for kit manufactures, there's little coverage in regards to such.

[adubar]

Hi Steve,

Following the LHBA's preferred methods, you can build to exceed code--and you should.

The cost of logs, or rather the lower the cost, would generally be directly proportional to the amount and type of canvassing and sourcing you do (availability asside).

Look for books written in the early part of the 20th century and the end of the 19th. Butt and pass is actually discussed in many instances, probably because the books were written closer to the time when butt and pass was more widely used.

One thing I would warn you about though, don't expect to find a step by step manual. Men in the last couple of centuries expected that the average reader would be far more handy (and stronger, smarter, self-sufficient, & etc.) than the average man is today--so, much common knowledge was left out.

Luckily, the LHBA can provide you with much of this "lost common knowledge."


-A

[slbrown]

Thanks for the replies. What I'm hearing is that the methods exceed code if done right, but I may have to educate the powers that be on this building style.

Suppose I can't scrounge some logs and have to resort to purchasing from a mill (or the like), would it be fair to say that it would still be cheaper than building with dimentional lumber?

Steve

[adubar]

Steve,

In the class you will be shown several ways to source logs. Buying from a mill should be your last resort. Also, logs really don't need to be "srounged." There are several traditional and accepted routes for loggers, timber owners and timber companies to sell to people other than mills. You just need to understand how the local market works (who are the players, what kinds and sizes and species of logs/timbers predominate, who the middle men are and what is the actual "root source"), the terminology or "lingo," and how to tap into your local timber market. As you will be directly competing with large mills and professional log home builders, it is not like going to your local home center and asking for a certain size joist---then again, for some people it is--they have ALL the luck.

What you should be scrounging are things that you will need to build your home asside from the logs. Any dimensional lumber (unless you mill yourself--which is the preferred method for most of us), fasteners, heating/cooling systems, windows, doors (I make my own doors and windows) & etc. --Basically, things that not only have a reatil market value, but have a resale or after market value (often had for free).

The key to the LHBA's class is that all the framework for how to go about doing this in the most efficient means possible, and how to make back-up plans in anticipation for when things fall through.

With the membership you get all of us here on the forum too--and wtih that a whole host of advice and experience. Many of us are willing to travel (within reason, although if it is to Alaska, I'd jump--I need an excuse to get out of the rat race) to pitch in experience, time and labor (I'm always looking for a build to crew on). Then again, I may have said too much! I think they still like me?

As far as cheaper than using dimensinal lumber. I'd have to say if you do your homework, spend the time sourcing it will be alot cheaper. But that is totally up to you. Like some of the home owners on "this old house," if you don't put in the sweat, you won't see the savings.

-A

[RockEngineer]

What I'm hearing is that the methods exceed code if done right, but I may have to educate the powers that be on this building style.

Educating building officials and engineers to the many facets of log home building is one of my favorite things. Bring 'em on. :twisted: :twisted:

[slbrown]

I'm gettign some great advice. Thanks everyone.

Maybe a couple other questions if anyone is willing:

1) My cabin site is about a thousand miles from my 9 month residence. Will this be a problem with regard to rotating my drying logs?

2) Does tha class talk about the Swedish Cope method? I'm new to this whole topic, but from what I've seen this seems to make a very tight wall?

Steve

[kyle]

Steve,

The class is structured around the butt and pass building method. However they do briefly (very briefly) touch on other building methods as well as explaining why they recommend the butt and pass. Once you hear their reasoning you won't even consider another method. Well, at least I didn't.

[rreidnauer]

What's wrong with Canadian Chinkless (http://www.loghomebuilders.org/notesfrommembers.html) style?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/titantornado/collapsed_cabin.jpg

Oh yea . . . . . :roll: