Tips on subdividing

[msjones]

I'm going out to look at land this weekend in Wisconsin. There are a few parcels in my price range, but there are also some larger parcels (20-30 acres) that are a little more than I want to pay for my personal property. I may consider them if I could subdivide them and sell them off. 5 acre minimum is required hear to build. Since I have never bought land and subdivided it I was wondering if someone could tell me the ins and outs of it, such as how difficult it may be, what to watch out for, any tips, etc.
Thanks
Mark

[adubar]

Unless you have a good friend that has gone through the process in the location you intend to subdivide, you would want to consult an attorney that is specifically experienced with the LOCAL zoning and sub division ordinances. It is one thing for zoning to state that the minimium buildable lot is 5 acres, it is another to have all 5 acre lots that result from a subdivision to meet all requirements in both zoning and ordinances. Often, zoning allows a certain size lot for building but the local subdivision ordinances prevent such use.

In most locals, you will need to satisify the zoning and subdivision ordinances, which often conflict with each other in one area or another.
You will need to have the land/plats surveyed.
In many locals, how the plats are situated in relation to water, streets, power & etc. may or may not make them buildable.

Also, any existing easements may prevent you from effectively subdividing.

You should talk to the local building and zoning people along with an experienced local attorney.


Try to satisfy answers to all requirements BEFORE buying the land.

Regards,

A

[msjones]

Thanks adubar
Where I'm looking it is septic and well. So I guess I would have to do a perk test in a few areas to determine what type of septic would be required. Most of the lots in the area require the new owner to dig their well. I know orientation, and access, to a road are important. I haven't seen the lots yet so I don't know if it would work, I'm just pondering it at this point. Of course I would involve an attorney if I got more serious about it. It would be kind of nice though to subdivide a few lots and have it pay for the land!

[adubar]

Is there access to municiple water?

If the cost of piping water to the lots is not too cost prohibitive, you can always look at installing a community scepting waste management system.
A freind of mine helped his father install one for about 10 building lots in a rural area near a main higway. They were able to pipe into the water main running along the highway and install a community sceptic system (which cost them $40,000 --they did ALL work).

The lots are being sold with a CC & R to help maintain the water and sceptic and includes a professional biologist to keep the system working. It also covers repair expenses.

It is like building your own mini-devlopment.

It may be something that can help in areas where each lot can't pass the perk test or in some other way does not satisfy sceptic requirements.


Of course the cost of this type of land development before selling and seeing the profit may make it prohibitive in many cases.
-A

[rocklock]

You should call your county planning folks and ask to talk to someone that knows the rules that they go by for Subdividing properties.
First, you need to know how the land is zoned now. Then the rules. Then how easy it is, or how many subdivisions have happened lately...
In Island County, Washington there is a process, but there is a moratorium on subdividing R-1 zoned land, period. Too many people and they want do not want to increase the population density. In fact the rule is that one house per property, but you can build one mother-in-law house (that has additional rules) per property. But they only grant 100 permits (mother-in-law) per year, so get in line in January. Does that make any sense???
I would presume that every county is different. Your county planning guy is a good person to make friends with... They have a ton of information, and a lot of time they make up the rule as they go... or at least the interpretations. And if they make a mistake, it will affect you... not them.

I did a ton of drawing and took a ton of pictures all intended on explanation. And still I was making changes up until the start of excavation of my property.

best of luck
Dave

[Drh0liday]

:idea: depending on how rural or urban your area is, you may want to think twice about subdividing, what if someone puts a couple manufactured homes next to your dream home, right in your view, that'd pretty much mess up my universe. personally i'd like to have about a hundred acres and build my place right in the middle of it, no neighbours = no problems 8)

[msjones]

I hear you Drh0liday. Believe me, if I could afford it I would be buying 100 acres. But, then there is reality.

[msjones]

So, I am driving up to Wisconsin tomorrow to look at some property. It is 12 acres, mostly wooded, for $45,000. It is not subdivided yet. It belongs to a farmer that is splitting it off from a larger parcel. Electric is in the street, but not to property. It has county road access. It is also in one of the areas I was considering. I am not worried about subdividing it once I buy it as at this price I will keep the whole lot.

I have bought land before but it was land that was always subdivided already with survey, electric at property line, "guaranteed buildable", etc. So I guess my questions are, assuming I like the property when I see it, what sort of contingencies should I write into a contract? One thing I think I will want to approve is the subdividing (boundaries) and plat survey

Here are some contingencies from another thread on this forum that I think I will also add:
Adequate potable water
Soil will perk for conventional or pressure septic system
Land not in 100 year flood plain
Land will appraise for loan
Check any deed restrictions
Ceck with county and local regarding permits, codes, etc.
See if there are any existing easements I don't like.

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Mark

[heavyopp]

Mark, Just wondering why you are looking for more property??

Didn't I see in a previous thread that you currently had land in wisconsin?

Is it not buildable or do you just want something different?

Jer

[msjones]

Yes, I currently have some land in Wisconsin. But the area I am in is a little restrictive with zoning and they don't want you to live on the land in a mobile or trailer while you build. I bought it before deciding to build a log home.

[heavyopp]

Restrictive doesn't work for me at all.

I don't blame you for looking elswhere.

Jer

[Quinton]

So, I am driving up to Wisconsin tomorrow to look at some property. It is 12 acres, mostly wooded, for $45,000. It is not subdivided yet. It belongs to a farmer that is splitting it off from a larger parcel. Electric is in the street, but not to property. It has county road access. It is also in one of the areas I was considering. I am not worried about subdividing it once I buy it as at this price I will keep the whole lot.

I have bought land before but it was land that was always subdivided already with survey, electric at property line, "guaranteed buildable", etc. So I guess my questions are, assuming I like the property when I see it, what sort of contingencies should I write into a contract? One thing I think I will want to approve is the subdividing (boundaries) and plat survey

Here are some contingencies from another thread on this forum that I think I will also add:
Adequate potable water
Soil will perk for conventional or pressure septic system
Land not in 100 year flood plain
Land will appraise for loan
Check any deed restrictions
Ceck with county and local regarding permits, codes, etc.
See if there are any existing easements I don't like.

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Mark

Just make sure that ANY offer you put up has that the property will perk for septic, has access for you to get to it, a well CAN be dug, etc.

Cover yourself with a LOT of contigencies!! :idea:

[dvb]

If you plan on financing make sure the property has public access. by this I mean that there is a public road to the property. I found out that a forest service road or or BLM road is not acceptable. It must be a county or state road. Exceptions are roads that are owned by a homeowners association, as long as the property is included in the association. I was going to purchase an old mining claim to build on and found out I would probably not be able to sell it because most people need financing.

[Kola]

Remember too, owners can create thier own notes and finance it themselves. I have done a few purchases (even on my new land purchase) while having the owner finance a note . I have also created notes for things I have sold...just be cautious and cover all the bases.

Personally I would much rather pay a common person interest on a note that he/she created than give it to the Banksters...,and I do not mind collecting interest on a note I hold, as long as all the bases are covered..which entail checking their credit history, getting a large down payment, holding a lien on the title, drawing up a legal binding contract and possibly having it gone over by a lawyer.

Kola

[msjones]

Well, this 12 acres I looked at in Wisconsin is a nice piece of property. It's mostly bluffs and woods. I walked up it and it is very peaceful up there. The incline is not too steep but rather gradual with plenty of flat spots to build. It is owned by a farmer that has a corn field right next to it. Right now it does not have ingress or egress, you have to enter it through a corner of the farmer's field. I think he would also sell me a portion of his field so I would have my own private access off the county road.

But now I am thinking, if I built a driveway through the field and up the front of the one of the bluffs - not too far but just far enough to have privacy - it would probably be about 400' long, about half flat and half incline. This is central Wisconsin and they do get snow in the Winter. I'm contemplating the tradeoff between having a nice spot for my home and plowing my driveway in the Winter. Can anyone chime in about their own experiences with this. I have looked at the Members log homes page and it looks like quite a few are tucked back in remote areas. I'm wondering how you cope with this.

[Mark OBrien]

But now I am thinking, if I built a driveway through the field and up the front of the one of the bluffs - not too far but just far enough to have privacy - it would probably be about 400' long, about half flat and half incline. This is central Wisconsin and they do get snow in the Winter. I'm contemplating the trade off between having a nice spot for my home and plowing my driveway in the Winter. Can anyone chime in about their own experiences with this. I have looked at the Members log homes page and it looks like quite a few are tucked back in remote areas. I'm wondering how you cope with this.[/quote]

I live in rural MO and this winter alone we have had a 16" snow storm, a 3-day ice storm, a 6" storm and several other days of freezing rain. We live on a steep road with a long steep gravel drive. We cope by taking everything in stride and living our lives. If it snows, you plow. If it snows a lot, dress warm and go make snow angels and drink hot chocolate with peppermint schnapps in it. :wink: Don't sweat the small stuff and live your life as if today were your last.

[linuxboy]

If anyone is interested in taxation of subdivided land, here is a good place to start

http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php/Internal_Revenue_Code:Sec._1237._Real_property_sub divided_for_sale

Section 1237 covers it in most cases.

[Kola]

It is owned by a farmer that has a corn field right next to it.


Ms Jones,

How many acres is the farmers corn field? You may want to consider the possibility of fertilizer run-off, soil depleteion/damage and water contamination. EEKS!

Kolaman

[ntp7001]

Hi I am new here and I hope I am able to lend a little insight into land subdivisions.

Having worked for a Surveyor for over 10 years, I believe the best way to to a subdivision is to go speak to a local surveyor. Attorneys do not have a the information needed for answering questions on subdivisions, and they usually just call the surveyor to get their facts straight, which will be added to your bill.

Surveyors are Professionals and they handle subdivisions all the time and are more than familiar with the local ordinances in your area.

Some things that are the usual obstacles....minimum lot size, each lot would need to perk, availability of water, opposition from neighbors.

One thing that could save you a bundle is if you know where your corners are...not just about where they are....I have been on many jobs where we have spent days looking for corners to the land we are working on as well as neighboring properties...try to find this stuff ahead of time and clearly mark it...it will save you some money.

Also, if you can get the deeds to the neighboring properties from the courthouse....you can do this by going to the tax office and getting a tax map of your area, and then outline the adjoining properties, once you know the pin numbers for those properties you can request the deed book and page numbers from the tax office...then once you have that info you can get the deeds from the recorder of deeds office....

If you walk into the surveyors office with most of the information in hand, as well as your property being clearly marked out in the field, you will save alot of "RESEARCH" time that you will be billed for.

Feel free to ask any questions and I will try to help...I am not a surveyor I am a helper......wHich means I do all the work, and the surveyor stamps it.

Neal

[Timber]

Drh0liday writes :idea: depending on how rural or urban your area is, you may want to think twice about subdividing, what if someone puts a couple manufactured homes next to your dream home, right in your view, that'd pretty much mess up my universe. personally i'd like to have about a hundred acres and build my place right in the middle of it, no neighbours = no problems 8)


that is why there is a thing called covenants he who subdivides can write them--no modular's-only stick built homes-or no rules- i wanted land in a certain area but when i got started reading the rules i said forget that. there were rules that your grass had to be so high--not to high not to low! no big rig trucks parked out front must be garaged--etc etc etc-trip was that the land had hardly any grass on it also had alkali / i read a story where a homeowner had a log home built on his property-had to remove because of covenants(no log homes). no rules are good but they can be bad as well-next thing you know someone builds units on them or has 3 trailers on 1 acre--it happens. or you could get a pig farmer that's why they have rules or restrictive covenants disclosed to possible new buyers. and that is why you should read the covenants to see if it fits your lifestyle-

[spiralsands]

I have a few covenants on my 23.5 acres that were put on the deed by the real estate broker who bought that big old farm and then broke it up into 10 pieces. Local ordinance says that we have to have 300 feet of road frontage and I have 600 feet. So I could split my property in half up in front and sell off a chunk of pasture if I wanted. But I'd rather not have the view of the back of someone's modular federal (very popular up there). Also, I like the quiet. The closer the neighbor, the more stinking noise. In fact, I'd love to get my hands on the lot next to mine to increase the lack of noise. It's also 23.5 acres, mostly wooded with a stream and it's still for sale for 49K. I could get it for 45K I bet.

The only 'deed restriction' I'm having a problem with is the one that says that I can't have a temporary structure up or a mobile home. I don't want to live in a mobile home but it would be one way to get onto the property while I was building. I'm going to have to get in touch with the town supervisor and find out exactly what I am allowed to put up. There's nothing in the deed that says I can't camp there...is a tent a 'temporary structure'? I guess it is...How about a lean-to? I can call it a 'run-in' for the horses...

I have to confess though that I did turn my nose up at another property, a 38 acre beauty on a hillside with a view down a green valley with a wide creek running at the bottom ($41K) because Jed Clampett's alcoholic uncle was sitting outside the rust bucket of his mobile shack that was rooted right at the corner of the property where I was observing the survey marker. He was sitting there giving me the hairy eyeball. No, really, his eyeball was literally hairy...

[cowfire]

For us, it was a very knowledgeable realtor that led us down the path to subdivision. Long story short, we bought out the neighbor, realtor agreed to help us do "Lot line Adjustments" with the county. Instead of having approx. 12 parcels of farm land and 7 building lots, we were able to go back and find old lot lines, and redraw,... so now we have 1 recreational lot on the river, 55 farm land parcels, and 24 building lots. While we do not have any plans to sell, obviously it has made our property much more valuable.
That was 5 years ago, and of course our county does'nt let people do that anymore.
Surveyor was a big help.
And there might be someone in your county who is a bit of a real estate guru who would help you sub-divide... for a fee.
Also remember you can probably build a "agricultural storage building" no permits needed. (For your horses, of course...).