New to Log Homes- questions and experiences of others needed

[Ford8N]

Hi,

I am new to this board and found the log home builders association website today while looking for info on log kits. I am interested in the class, but I am a little hesitant on signing up for things that I randomly find on the internet. I would like to hear of other's experiences on the this board: did you like the class, what did you do with what you learned, and so forth?

The second part of my question is that I am looking into the feasability of building spec log homes and flipping them for a business. That is why I was originally looking at kit log homes. I grew up in the small town and country, have lived 23 years in Chicago and I am looking to establish myself again in a rural setting. (the city is wearing me down) I own a small farmstead (where I intend to permanently settle) in SW WI and there are several small lakes nearby. I have zeroed in on a couple of lots I am ready to purchase and am eager to get the ball rolling. I know the real estate market has turned, as I have been a real estate agent for 13 years, but I also think there is still a niche market for log homes, mostly for vacation and retirement in my region. I do have rehabbing experience, am very handy and I have relationships with Amish craftsmen in the area. Does anyone have similar experiences to share and would this seminar help me with my goals?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

-Paul

[KeithMN]

Hey Paul, welcome to the boards! So glad you found us. There are a lot of people, myself included, who found this site because we were researching log home kits.

I just came back from the most recent class (this past weekend) and I can tell you that it's the best money I've ever spent. It will open up a whole new road of understanding. The class will teach you how to build a great quality log home (structurally) in the most cost-prohibitive way and is the least labor intensive. These guys know what they're doing and are interested in teaching people how to stay free from the 30 year mortgage trap and log home kit catastrophes.

I compared them to other log home classes I found online. They're methods not only made the most sense, but are cheaper. They offer the most assistance (lifetime membership with no further dues) These message boards proved invaluable to me when making my decision. The people here are sincere, extremely helpful and very friendly. There are also a LOT more testimonies from people who have built their log homes using LHBA methods. Have you seen their money back guaranty? (Even three months after you've taken the class!)

Having just come back from the class, I obviously haven't started building yet, but I came out of the class with the confidence that I will be able to. I intend to follow their methods to a T.

I'm almost debt free. That will allow me to move where I want to and work the job I want to. That's partially due to the cost prohibitive ways the class taught me. Freedom from a huge mortgage and the freedom to move and work where I want to? Sold me!

As for the second part of your question, I'll have to leave that to others more experienced.

Sorry if this sounds like an infomercial. :oops: I just believe in what Steve and Ellsworth are doing. :)

[rreidnauer]

Welcome to the board Paul.

You'll find a lot of testimonials already posted in this forum, of what people think of the class. One good example is in the most recent thread, Ok Veteran's weekend graduates...spill! I can't recall ever reading a single complaint in this forum, of anyone feeling they didn't get their money's worth from the class. I understand your distrust, as I have a fair share of my own. Hopefully, by reading through the postings here, you'll be able to draw a conclusion to your suspicions. I think you'll find some very candid opinions to draw your own opinions from.

As for house flipping log homes, I'd risk saying that maybe this isn't what your looking for. By "spec" homes, I assume you mean kithomes. LHBA homes can't be built to "spec" (rather, they far exceed those standards) as the construction technique of using whole, unmodified logs of varying sizes, makes it impossible to set such a standard. Every home is different, unique. LHBA is about building a solid log home affordably. By "affordably", that usually means time consuming. If you're planning to knock out and sell homes as quickly as possible, then much of what is taught probably won't be worth much to you. LHBA teaches how to build a home which is of extreme quality, strength, and will last for many, many generations, but with significant amount of labor required. It's not so much about speed. Of course, you could also find yourself with a whole new outlook if you took the class. The best advice again is, read through the forum threads, and see what you think then.

[stockhatch]

Nah, by "spec" he means homes built on speculation that a buyer will come along. I guess you could do this, depending on local laws regarding living in the structure before selling it. I know a conventional home can be built on speculation here, but Im not sure about handcrafted log structures due to insurance and other liability reasons. Not saying it can be done, in fact it may be totally fine. I would check with local insurance companies and the building dept etc. Oh, and dont forget about the capital gains :D

[adubar]

Ford8N,

There have been LHBA members that have built on spec and done well

I think it really requires a "rethink" of the typical building or developing on spec to be successful. If you go into it with the idea that you are going to manage the project like you would for prefab/kit homes or like most handcrafters do it, you probably would be doomed to fail.

As Rod stated above and I'm adding to here, you would be building a far superior structure ---that is in no way comprable to a kit home. A home built using the LHBA preffered methods cannot be pre built and reassembled. Also, it is not the type of method that you can take short cuts and hide them (like in popular hand crafter methods like "Canadian chinkless"). What you build is the very best home possible-each time you build.

Probably the only way to hone your skill at it is to build and find ways to improve your speed and the overall speed of the projects (sourcing materials, material costs and logistics & etc.)--each succeeding structure would be more effeciently built = less overall cost and better profit margin.

Another thing the information presented in the class can help anyone with is rethinking their own building techniques. Many of the things taught in the class could be used to improve any log building method.

-A

[Ford8N]

I appreciate the comments on my earlier post. I think since I am looking to do this as a business I would be better off to construct kit log homes from a reputable dealer. If this were my own home I would be more picky about it; not that I want to construct junk, I just need to be able to turn these around quickly. I am still debating on whether I should take the course, but I am not sure that it will help with what I want to do.

Do any have any experiences with kit log companies, either good or bad? There are three dealers in my area: Lincoln Logs, Meadow Valley and Golden Eagle. Anyone here look into any of these?

[KeithMN]

Ford8N,

As I said in my first response, I found this site during my research on log home kits. It started with this article -
http://www.loghomebuilders.org/warnings_about_kit_log_homes.htm
I went on to research them from there. Not only information from this website but from others. I found 9 - 9.5 out of 10 experiences customers had buying log kit homes to be utter disaster and horror stories. Everything from: [list]-Not getting they home they contracted for.
-Not getting all of the pieces/materials they were expecting/promised.
-Being quoted one price and ending up paying tens of thousands (and in two cases, hundreds of thousands) more.
-Weak and faulty materials delivered and just dumped off.
-Contracters accepting payment, showing up for a few days, or a week, and then abandoning the project (lots of these stories).
-Stories of people who were happy with their kit home for a year or two (no longer than five) and then everything fell apart... literally.
-The process of becoming a 'licensed' builder of kit homes is a joke![/list:u]
These are just the ones I remembered off-hand. I learned enough in my research that kits are bad news - period. I'm sure there are a few success stories of them out there, too, but I wasn't about to take a chance with a reputation like that. Forgive my bluntness, but, having done my research, I'm unapologetic for my strong views on this subject.

If you decide to do it, reputably, be prepared for angry customers and the need to return to old sites over and over again. If you want to check out log home kit companies, pick up any log home magazine. They are all produced by kit manufacturers.

I sincerely wish you the best in whatever you decide to do!

[WalkingHorseLady]

Ford8N,

First off, I like your handle. The first thing I ever drove as a child was a Ford8N, way before I was old enough for cars.

Here's my .02 cents worth on your future plans. If you want to build kit homes, then knock yourself out. Just be prepared, for one day an angry customer may decide to knock you out too! You owe it to yourself to invest in taking our log building class so you will be truly knowlegeable about your work, and what is taught will help you avoid some very expensive (to you) pitfalls of log kits if you still decide to take that route. You can't know ahead of actually taking our class what you are up against with kits. All you can do is trust a whole lot of total strangers that have your best interests at heart.

Please take our log home building class first.

WalkingHorseLady

[rreidnauer]

Do any have any experiences with kit log companies, either good or bad? There are three dealers in my area: Lincoln Logs, Meadow Valley and Golden Eagle. Anyone here look into any of these?

Yea, I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone here with a positive experience using kithomes. Simply put, people usually end up here either while researching kit log homes, and stumble across LHBA (as I did) or you get the folks who did have (or are having) a kit home built, and ran into disasters like Keith mentions.

In general, I don't think the building contractors are out there trying to screw over the customer. (well, maybe sometimes) Rather, I think they are caught between the consumer wanting what they paid for, and the kit manufacturer who can't deliver a quality product. They're left with the decision to bail before loosing their butts. Would you be prepared for such a situation?

WalkingHorseLady does bring up a good point though. Taking the class would give you the information as to what deficiencies to look for. You would then be able to recognize such problems when looking into the manufacturers' products, and decide on which manufacturer builds with the least chances of problems. Of course, you actually have to go and see their products first hand, after taking the course and knowledge you gained.

Going back to your original question, I don't know where you could find a good source of recommendations. The best advice I could give, is to stop at people's homes that have them, and simply ask, though the results will be slightly tainted, as the homes will likely be those of the three local manufacturers in your area, and you won't get opinions from owners of other kit home manufacturers.

[hawkiye]

I feel a little differently then some of the others. I think this method would be right up your alley from what you wrote. I am currently building my first and it is for profit. Others are and have done the same and done very well. I plan to make a business out of it.


I don't think you'd be better off flipping kit homes. The kits will cost you more then building with this method and most of them are junk. Read the horror stories on the main site about kits. This method will give you an unsurpassed quality product to offer in a niche market that has been watered down badly by kit makers. Also the curb appeal of one of these as opposed to a kit home is amazing.

I don't know about you but I have a problem with paying tens of thousands of dollars or hundreds of thousands for a house that has to have the roof lowered over time and gaps pre built over doorways and windows so they don't jam and break because of settlement. Skip teaches a simple but ingenious proven method that avoids all this nonsense

I figure I'll make minimum of $100,00 to $150,000 on my first and probably much more but I like to be conservative in the estimate. I may just build one or two a year. That kind of profit is of course relative to the market in the area your milage may vary.

As for building them quick I am doing everything myself to save money so it's taking longer. However in the future I will hire out some things to speed the process and make a faster profit. I figure I'll be able to quite my job in a year or two.

Skip has a 30+ year track record teaching and building with his method with many students pics and sites whom you can contact and talk to and even visit their homes if your close enough or willing to travel.

Skips place where the class is held is bar none one of the most spectacular log homes you'll ever see IMO. The pictures do not do it justice. Check the main site members homes section. With the money back garauntee you can't go wrong. It is some of the best money I have ever spent.


Blayne

[bkleber]

I think since I am looking to do this as a business I would be better off to construct kit log homes from a reputable dealer.

My wife and I are strongly considering building Skip-style log homes and selling them for profit. We arrived at this plan through a kind of roundabout route, and I promise that we wouldn't have gotten there with kit homes as our source for homes.

If you have a crew of just a few people working for you you can erect a skip-style home a lot faster than you might believe. All things told, the materials and labor prices would (I strongly expect, though I haven't calculated numbers to back this up) be substantially lower than if you were to purchase a kit home and hire a crew to assemble it.

As with everyone else who has taken the LHBA classes, having seen what they teach, I would be *VERY* careful about what kind of Kit homes I touched. There are a few invisible-but-problematic shortcuts that the kit home builders take that do *not* make for a really solid building, especially not one that I would trust to last for many decades. After learning about these kit home issues, I saw pictures of a friend's kit home being built, and I cringed at what I saw - I knew what was going to happen to it over the next few years. If nothing else, I recommend that you spend the money on the class and learn about your options. (If kit-home folks give a class on why Skip-style log homes suck, take that too - that way you'll know each method from both sides.) If I recall correctly, there's even a no-questions-asked money-back promise for the LHBA class... but having been there and learned everything that they tought, I can't even conceive of cashing in on it.

If you learn how to build a Skip-style butt-and-pass log home and choose to build & sell kit homes anyhow, then I'd be very surprised, but I wish you the best of success.

[sexylogbldr]

Paul: Classes are a blast, and you learn such an incredible amount of information. I grew up in the trade, learning as a kid and then picking it back up after the navy and college. Right now, I am in Galena IL through Hayward WI building... the market is slow. If you spec, understand how tight things are- we have 3 homes sitting right now. Fell free to look me up if you have more questions.

[GT.]

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