Question about the Pictures

[GaDawg]

My wife and I are saving our money for the trip from Ga. to attend the class sometime in March or April of 2007. I am constantly looking at the pictures of the beautiful homes on the web site just about everyday. Just reading the web site and the forums is exciting enough to me; Lord help me after I take the class.
I've noticed that on the web site it says there are 45,000 members worldwide. My question is; where are all the pictures? There are only about 20-25 different pictures on the web site. Are these the only ones that actually do build after taking the class?
Thank you for taking the time to read my question.



Just because man was made from dust, doesn't mean you should treat him like dirt. [/b]

[Basil]

Well, I think a large majority that take the class never build a log home themselves. It's really hard work, it takes a lot of your time, and it can be dangerous. It also requires an incredible amount of intestinal fortitude.

The point is, there are lots of members that haven't built. Skip taught the class for decades. There are people that built their homes 25 years ago that aren't on the website because it was so long ago. If you google skip's name, a lot of other sites come up where people built a log home in the 70's or 80's and mention that he taught them how. And of course, once you've built there is less motivation to stay in touch with the community.

[GaDawg]

I completely understand. That was just something that came to my mind while looking around.
Thanks for shaking some sense into me.

[JeffandSara]

Hi, GaDawg and welcome to the forums!

Basil's right. I'd also add that in the past (and probably still, but maybe less-so as the class price has gone up), there was a certain percentage of people who attended the class as entre into Skip's house or for the experience of attending, rather than necessarily because they were truly interested in or ready to build their own home.

When my husband and I attended (years ago, now, but still "late" in terms of local "Skip legendry", if you know what I mean), in our two classes we felt pretty confident that out of the packed house that attended, there were probably a maximum of five people/couples in each class that we felt were REALLLLLLLY likely to actually build. A lot were clearly lookie-loos. Others were clearly there to "see the elephant" (Skip) because of his reputation as a character (I'm sure he'll forgive me for saying that! :D ) Others thought that they wanted to build their own homes, but clearly didn't have the "intestinal fortitude" as Basil put it, to do so. A few we hoped actually would NOT try to build, based on the questions they asked in class.

Jeff thought there were a couple of guys likely to build at his class. At mine, we thought there were three besides us. We tried to keep in touch with two of the three from that class. We actually kept in touch for about a year with one guy and his wife. About three months after the class he broke his leg and was off work for months-- and the following set of circumstances at least delayed their building plans for a couple of years, if they ever did build.

But in my opinion, probably the biggest reason there aren't many people who have actually built who are active on the forums is that many of the success stories are from people who are from the "pre-internet" Pacific Northwest student bloc. They had, I'd say, a higher built-in likelihood of success because Skip's style was SO well-suited to local conditions/resources than some of us building in other regions. They've also had more time to complete their projects (since not all houses-- especially big full-feature homes-- are built in a year or two.) It's only been just the past few years that the Association has made full-use of the benefits of the internet for networking. And, based on the stories we hear from the past builders that Ellsworth and Steve have shared with us, people have built their homes and moved on with their lives, so to speak. In a lot of ways, I personally think that's totally in-keeping with Skip's whole philosophy. :D (Though i'm with you, GaDawg... I'd love more log home "eye candy"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :wink: )

Best wishes to you-- Sara :D

[Tiley]

Hi Sara,

What was it about the small number of people from the classes that you and your husband attened that made you feel they were capable of building? Was it their prior building experience? I'm just curious because I have no experience when it comes to building, but I really want to take this class. That being said, I don't want to fool myself into thinking I can do this, and then figure out i'm crazy for thinking I could after attending the class. What were some of the questions asked by the people you hoped would not try to build?

Thanks!

Kris

[JeffandSara]

Hi, Kris--

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from the class by my comments. I hope no one will take what I said in that light. It was one of the most fun and most rewarding experiences in OUR lives, no exaggeration, and we consider Skip, Chip, Ellsworth and Steve genuine friends and fine people we're privileged to know. The class opened up doors to us that we didn't quite know existed, not in this form, and it's been a fabulous experience all-round.

But we can only go on our own interpretations of the reactions of other classmates, and we could, of course, be totally wrong. On the other hand, we've not seen any of our classmates on the forums or featured in the Exceptional Log Home Awards, either. As I said, when WE took the class, there were a lot of people there for a different experience than we were there for. A novelty is the only word I can think of. So some of them MIGHT later have really taken-in what they heard and said, "Yeah.. that IS a great idea".. .but that clearly was not what they were there for in the first place. A few others clearly were looking for a building style that was much more "for show" and less for practicality and strength, and from their reactions, this didn't seem to be it. That's fine. That's why there's chocolate and vanilla, as they say. :wink:

Of those that I said we "hoped" wouldn't try to build "based on their questions", it wasn't a matter of experience. Jeff and I have lots of miscellaneous skills, talents and experience, but none of them were with building a home from scratch. I think that what we know and what we've done stood us in good stead on this project, but I know there are lots of people on these forums with more "building experience". To be totally frank, the two things I think that most seemed to be "lacking" , for lack of a better word, in their comments and questions were common sense and commitment.

The class is comprehensive on the subjects specific to this building style, and helpful on other building issues. But you'll have to be able to "connect the dots" on your own when the rubber meets the road. We thought that was reasonable, but we're not the kind of people who want or need to be spoon-fed. Building a home is not a paint-by-number project... there CAN'T be that sort of hard-and-fast, we've-thought-through-every-contingency package-deal when you're talking about people building all different structures in all different parts of the nation and the world in all different sites and climate with all different resources and all different financial and physical and motivational circumstances. (And Ellsworth and Steve, if you DO figure out a way to do that.... charge LOTS more than you do now!!!!!!!! :wink: ) Each person is going to have to figure out a way to "just do it".... but a lot of the students in the classes we attended were VERY frustrated by Skip every time he said basically that. The forums they guys have established for us are a TREMENDOUS help, and the LHBA has ALWAYS been ready, willing and able to help students and answer questions. But if you can't use your own common sense to figure some stuff out on your own, you're going to have a hard time building a log house.. or ANY house.

The other big issue is that, no matter how basic and really beautifully simple Skip's building style is, it isn't an easy project. Lots of students have found lots of ways to overcome the parts of the process that are hardest for them (and sometimes to make some parts physically easier)... and I feel that there's great character-building and personal growth benefit to struggling through the hard and easier parts of the process. But the fact is that you DO need to be someone who is willing and able to work hard, mentally and physically, over an extended period of time -- even, and maybe ESPECIALLY, when you hit a "snag" -- if you are going to be successful. There might be a "way around" some individual parts of the experience... but I don't think that anyone who's actually built would say there was any way around the commitment and endurance a project of the scope of a full-feature house demands.

Oh, and the OTHER big reason we "hoped" some of the students wouldn't build was that a lot of them were standing in the kitchen chatting and drinking coffee when Skip was explaining the MOST IMPORTANT parts of his methods of butt and pass construction. We didn't get fancy workbooks in the "old days" like you guys get now :wink: ... but even with those, I think students who don't pay attention in class are unlikely to have good results if they build.

Hope that makes my comments more clear. :D Best to you.

Sara :D

[debtfree_jen]

This kind of goes along with what Sara says, but I've heard this from several different avenues in my life. There is a saying that simply states that "20% of the people do 80% of the work" and it goes on to refer to 5% but for the life of me I can't remember what it says. Maybe 5% do the remainder 20% of the work? I don't know about that so please don't quote me.

I attended a seminar 6 months ago and the class literally had probably 2-300 people in the beginning. The instructor said in the very beginning that he would weed the class down to 5 - 10% and he was right. Little, by little, as the 8 hour class progressed, the room had more and more empty seats. At the end of the day, you really find out who has the heart, will, and desire to see something through to the end.

BTW Sara, how many people attend the class?

[JeffandSara]

Jen--

Welcome to the forums. I saw your post about the timing of taking the class, and Iagree with the guys who replied. Take it when you can.

As for the number of students, you know, I'm not great with numbers in groups. I imagine that the guys must say somewhere how many students they accept per class, and I'm sure it's similar to the number Skip used to enroll. Off the top of my head, I'd have said it was maybe 20-25 people. (Ellsworth and Steve... help me out here! :? :lol: )

But with two full days of instruction and discussion, it didn't feel like there was any problem for people to get their basic questions answered, etc. even with Skip's less-linear teaching style than Ellsworth and Steve's is now We didn't have many questions when I went, because Jeff had already been and we'd already built a model... but lots of other people did.

Best-- Sara :D

[Tiley]

Hi Sara,

I appreciate the reply. I realize this kind of project isn't for everyone. There are probably many other skills I would need to learn to really be successful. I'm sure these foroums would be a great help though after taking the class. Congrats on your house. Hopefully I can be in the small minority of students who do build once I take the class.

Thanks!

Kris

[JeffandSara]

There are probably many other skills I would need to learn to really be successful.

Well, Kris, my kids always laugh at me for always saying "You learn something new every day", but really, if you aren't learning new stuff all the time, what's the point of living, eh? That's what I think, anyway. I had to learn to do lots of new things working on our house, some of which really pushed me out of my comfort zone.

And, YES, the forums are, I think, a great resource for members. Kudos to Steve and Ellsworth for making it a reality. :D

Best-- Sara :D

[rreidnauer]

I'm sure these foroums would be a great help though after taking the class.


And, YES, the forums are, I think, a great resource for members. Kudos to Steve and Ellsworth for making it a reality.

I'd say those are two understatements. I believe the forums to be as equally important as the class itself. The class was worth every cent paid. To get the forum too, almost feels like theft! :D